NeverSure Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Yes, and it's the people's right to vote for him if they want. Stupid or not. It's called democracy. Eventualy, without the military intervening, they will get smarter and the system can mature. This. I don't approve of either the Shin dynasty or a junta, but given a choice I'd take democracy and give it a chance to mature instead of having a coup every 15 minutes. The Thai people never get a chance to learn of the mistakes of their votes if they don't follow to a logical conclusion and suffer the consequences. I can never support a D word nor can I think of one that ever truly benefited the people. Most of us grew up and benefited from democracy while watching poor countries with D words. It amazes me when any can support a D word. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rametindallas Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 “We’re waiting for the election next year,” said Sakhon, 66, a retired agriculture ministry official. You would think that as an Agriculture Minister official he would be most aware of what a cock-up the Shin Rice Scheme was. He must have been kicked of he 'gravy train' by the coup. Thankfully, he doesn't represent anyone's views but his own, selfish, narrow ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonbridgebrit Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 How happy can one get being clamped between low produce prices and high level of debts, both a consequence of the populist policy they once cheered for... Low prices from the high unsold stock, and high debts due to the belief tomorrow never ends. trogers, reading the Bloomberg report, okay, these are people who are still supporting Thaksin. It's not really a case of 'they once cheered for'... If it was the case that these people hate Thaksin, well, we can see an election pretty soon, and Thaksin could then definitely be declared as a person who does not have voter support in Thailand ! That way, Thailand can declare itself as a democracy (after an election where Thaksin does not win) and NOT have Thaksin in charge. And that means Thailand's poltical and diplomatic links with the West would be restored to normal ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Yes, and it's the people's right to vote for him if they want. Stupid or not. It's called democracy. Eventualy, without the military intervening, they will get smarter and the system can mature. This. I don't approve of either the Shin dynasty or a junta, but given a choice I'd take democracy and give it a chance to mature instead of having a coup every 15 minutes. The Thai people never get a chance to learn of the mistakes of their votes if they don't follow to a logical conclusion and suffer the consequences. I can never support a D word nor can I think of one that ever truly benefited the people. Most of us grew up and benefited from democracy while watching poor countries with D words. It amazes me when any can support a D word. Cheers Can Thailand afford to get its State's coffer emptied and public debt shot sky high so that the people learn from their mistakes? Such risks have been taken with people learning or having learnt in two example countries, Argentina and the Philippines. And they both have remained poor countries for decades now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cake Monster Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Happiness has also eluded Investers into Thailand since the coup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 "Inside, on a bookshelf, are photos of Thaksin’s sister Yingluck.........." What I would expect to find a Shinawatra supporter's "book" shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Somtam Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 “We’re waiting for the election next year,” said Sakhon, 66, a retired agriculture ministry official. You would think that as an Agriculture Minister official he would be most aware of what a cock-up the Shin Rice Scheme was. He must have been kicked of he 'gravy train' by the coup. Thankfully, he doesn't represent anyone's views but his own, selfish, narrow ones. Which is his democratic right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Now please name ONE dictatorship where the people are not poor... Name me one democracy where inefficient farmers growing small plots of low value crop are rich? The political system has nothing to do with their income levels, except when some corrupt would-be is prepared to offer the nation's wealth to buy votes from the poor and ignorant. Correction - their income levels don't rise even then because the falsely promised income rise is sucked away by the would-be's corrupt lackeys. Edited May 23, 2015 by halloween Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcutman Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Yes, and it's the people's right to vote for him if they want. Stupid or not. It's called democracy. Eventualy, without the military intervening, they will get smarter and the system can mature. This. I don't approve of either the Shin dynasty or a junta, but given a choice I'd take democracy and give it a chance to mature instead of having a coup every 15 minutes. The Thai people never get a chance to learn of the mistakes of their votes if they don't follow to a logical conclusion and suffer the consequences. I can never support a D word nor can I think of one that ever truly benefited the people. Most of us grew up and benefited from democracy while watching poor countries with D words. It amazes me when any can support a D word. Cheers Can Thailand afford to get its State's coffer emptied and public debt shot sky high so that the people learn from their mistakes?Such risks have been taken with people learning or having learnt in two example countries, Argentina and the Philippines. And they both have remained poor countries for decades now. Now please name ONE dictatorship where the people are not poor... I think the same question could be asked about about this worlds so called democracies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhamBam Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 This put a smile on my face when I read it..... In Isan, villagers said they are they are fed up with the weekly broadcasts. “The best business would be selling TVs since so many people are breaking theirs when they see Prayuth’s face,” joked Suchart Busrakham, 49, a farmer who borrowed money to buy a truck. He had planned to sell straw mats in surrounding villages, but with the drop in rice prices and consumer spending he’s fallen behind on repayments and now ferries schoolchildren to make ends meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldiablo Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Robby nz. Your post is quite interesting but it still fails to answer my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonbridgebrit Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 “We’re waiting for the election next year,” said Sakhon, 66, a retired agriculture ministry official. You would think that as an Agriculture Minister official he would be most aware of what a cock-up the Shin Rice Scheme was. He must have been kicked of he 'gravy train' by the coup. Thankfully, he doesn't represent anyone's views but his own, selfish, narrow ones. rametindallas, so this man represents his own views, and only a small percentage of the Thais have these views ? Only a small percentage of Thais support Thaksin ? Well yes, you could be right. Okay, lets have a general election, with Abhisit competing against Thaksin. Surely, this means that Abhisit will get about (or at least) six or seven per cent more votes than Thaksin ? And this then means that Abhisit will have more MPs than Thaksin, and will be the winner of the election. And once that happens, then Thailand can declare itself to be a democracy, and Thaksin is not in charge. And with Thailand being a democracy, well, the West will restore full political and diplomatic links with Thailand. Surely, it's better for Thailand to have this, rather than reduced poltical links and slowly drifting away from the West ? I certainly wouldn't have a problem with Abhist turning up in America or Britain, and (as the democratically eleted leader of Thailand) he is given a full and warm welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonbridgebrit Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 This. I don't approve of either the Shin dynasty or a junta, but given a choice I'd take democracy and give it a chance to mature instead of having a coup every 15 minutes. The Thai people never get a chance to learn of the mistakes of their votes if they don't follow to a logical conclusion and suffer the consequences. I can never support a D word nor can I think of one that ever truly benefited the people. Most of us grew up and benefited from democracy while watching poor countries with D words. It amazes me when any can support a D word. Cheers Can Thailand afford to get its State's coffer emptied and public debt shot sky high so that the people learn from their mistakes?Such risks have been taken with people learning or having learnt in two example countries, Argentina and the Philippines. And they both have remained poor countries for decades now. Now please name ONE dictatorship where the people are not poor... Lee Kuan Yew But Lee Kuan Yew was given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West. The problem we have today is, is that the present Thai government are not given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West. If the present Thai government was to be given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West, well, that would be far better for Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 "Thaksin Shinawatra, deposed by a 2006 coup." No he wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawker9000 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 From the article: He said the stable prices under Thaksin had allowed poor farmers to plan their lives, to borrow money and invest in their future. Stable prices that have put the country seriously into debt. The populist program could not have been continued. Especially considering the slowing global economy. The farmers would have been better off if the government just gave them money. At least a majority of it would have gone into their pockets instead of those up stream from them. And lost via corruption. Education is the key here, methinks. ahh next election the Thaksin party will promise everyone get rich, get a Pickup, a free iPhone, hot ice cream and 500 Baht for the right vote and they will get elected again. And if the Democrats over it than Thaksin will promise a free Ferrari for everyone and tell it is only the Bangkok elite who wants them poor.... Yes, and it's the people's right to vote for him if they want. Stupid or not. It's called democracy. Eventualy, without the military intervening, they will get smarter and the system can mature. Such blind obsession with the idea of unlimited, unquestioned, absolute rule by the majority without any constitutional boundaries is precisely the problem. The dominence of the majority interest should not imply the abuse of everyone else's rights and ability to participate in government. True majority will should also not be confused with votes that can simply be purchased with populist political manipulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 This. I don't approve of either the Shin dynasty or a junta, but given a choice I'd take democracy and give it a chance to mature instead of having a coup every 15 minutes. The Thai people never get a chance to learn of the mistakes of their votes if they don't follow to a logical conclusion and suffer the consequences. I can never support a D word nor can I think of one that ever truly benefited the people. Most of us grew up and benefited from democracy while watching poor countries with D words. It amazes me when any can support a D word. Cheers Can Thailand afford to get its State's coffer emptied and public debt shot sky high so that the people learn from their mistakes?Such risks have been taken with people learning or having learnt in two example countries, Argentina and the Philippines. And they both have remained poor countries for decades now. Now please name ONE dictatorship where the people are not poor... Lee Kuan Yew But Lee Kuan Yew was given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West. The problem we have today is, is that the present Thai government are not given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West. If the present Thai government was to be given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West, well, that would be far better for Thailand. Warm welcome by the West is down to what they can get out of deals, not on political correctness. Saddam was also warmly welcomed before by the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) It's not happiness that is needed, its a legal system and judiciary free from corruption that is required. Those elected into govt need to know that they will be prosecuted and gaoled if found guilty if corruption. They need to know that the abuse of power and corruption whilst in power will result in the same. They need to know that if elected they have to rule for the sake of the country and its people and not their faction of the elite to which they all belong to irrespective of party allegiances. They need to know that all you win when you are elected to power is the obligation to rule in a manner that is inclusive rather than decisive and clan like. The only thing that can deliver this is the rule of law, the acceptance that all are subject and subservient to it and the thorough enforcement of the consequences for those who break it. Happiness is never going to happen until this is done. Probably wont even then, but at least there will be a system that takes away some of the things making people unhappy without the need for military intervention. Edited May 23, 2015 by Bluespunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 It's not happiness that is needed, its a legal system and judiciary free from corruption that is required. Those elected into govt need to know that they will be prosecuted and gaoled if found guilty if corruption. They need to know that the abuse of power and corruption whilst in power will result in the same. They need to know that if elected they have to rule for the sake of the country and its people and not their faction of the elite to which they all belong to irrespective of party allegiances. They need to know that all you win when you are elected to power is the obligation to rule in a manner that is inclusive rather than decisive and clan like. The only thing that can deliver this is the rule of law, the acceptance that all are subject and subservient to it and the thorough enforcement of the consequences for those who break it. Happiness is never going to happen until this is done. Probably wont even then, but at least there will be a system that takes away some of the things making people unhappy without the need for military intervention. That's why a dictator like Lee Kuan Yew is loved by the majority of his people. He crackdowned hard on corruption and foster Justice and Equality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAppletons Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Such blind obsession with the idea of unlimited, unquestioned, absolute rule by the majority without any constitutional boundaries is precisely the problem. The dominence of the majority interest should not imply the abuse of everyone else's rights and ability to participate in government. True majority will should also not be confused with votes that can simply be purchased with populist political manipulation. As opposed to blind devotion to the idea of "unlimited, unquestioned, absolute rule power by one man. Just as the "dominance(sic) of the majority interest Supreme Ruler should not imply the abuse suppression of everyone else's rights and ability to participate in government." Seriously, what planet do you live on? Surely not the one that the rest of us inhabit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetley Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Farmers struggling,what happened to all the good money they got for their rice? the concept of saving for a rainy day,must be beyond them,the good times never last forever. So if they are struggling now,does that mean the fortune spent on buying rice was a complete failure. regards worgeordie What good money are we talking about here?Let us say the average rice farm consists of 24 rai and a good yield is one ton/rai. I don't remember the exact figure the farmers were promised by the rice pledging scheme but at the current price of 15 baht/Kg your farmer will have a single crop income of just under £7,000 before costs are subtracted, to last a year. Difficult to find any surplus for a rainy day I think. Until economies of scale come into play (ie farms of 100 rai or more) the only solution is what farmers do now which is to become builders during the non agricultural season. It probably is and probably just as reasonable an idea to give up rice farming altogether. A good friend of wifey's kept meticulous records of her last crop outgoings and final income. She made a total profit of 523 bht per rai and considered it an absolute waste of effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonbridgebrit Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 This. I don't approve of either the Shin dynasty or a junta, but given a choice I'd take democracy and give it a chance to mature instead of having a coup every 15 minutes. The Thai people never get a chance to learn of the mistakes of their votes if they don't follow to a logical conclusion and suffer the consequences. I can never support a D word nor can I think of one that ever truly benefited the people. Most of us grew up and benefited from democracy while watching poor countries with D words. It amazes me when any can support a D word. Cheers Can Thailand afford to get its State's coffer emptied and public debt shot sky high so that the people learn from their mistakes?Such risks have been taken with people learning or having learnt in two example countries, Argentina and the Philippines. And they both have remained poor countries for decades now. Now please name ONE dictatorship where the people are not poor... Lee Kuan Yew But Lee Kuan Yew was given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West. The problem we have today is, is that the present Thai government are not given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West. If the present Thai government was to be given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West, well, that would be far better for Thailand. Warm welcome by the West is down to what they can get out of deals, not on political correctness. Saddam was also warmly welcomed before by the US. Surely, it's still better to be given a warm welcome by the West rather than not ? For Iraq, was Iraq better off when Saddam was being welcomed by the West. Iraq was worse off when Saddam had a seperation with the West ?? trogers, do you feel that Thaksin is deluded when he thinks that the Thais who support him are as many as the Thais who will vote for Abhist ? Do you feel that Thaksin is deluded when he thinks that the number of Thais who are happy with him is just as many as the Thais who will be happy under Abhisit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) This. I don't approve of either the Shin dynasty or a junta, but given a choice I'd take democracy and give it a chance to mature instead of having a coup every 15 minutes. The Thai people never get a chance to learn of the mistakes of their votes if they don't follow to a logical conclusion and suffer the consequences. I can never support a D word nor can I think of one that ever truly benefited the people. Most of us grew up and benefited from democracy while watching poor countries with D words. It amazes me when any can support a D word. Cheers Can Thailand afford to get its State's coffer emptied and public debt shot sky high so that the people learn from their mistakes?Such risks have been taken with people learning or having learnt in two example countries, Argentina and the Philippines. And they both have remained poor countries for decades now. Now please name ONE dictatorship where the people are not poor... Lee Kuan Yew But Lee Kuan Yew was given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West. The problem we have today is, is that the present Thai government are not given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West. If the present Thai government was to be given a full and warm welcome when turning up in the West, well, that would be far better for Thailand. Warm welcome by the West is down to what they can get out of deals, not on political correctness. Saddam was also warmly welcomed before by the US. Surely, it's still better to be given a warm welcome by the West rather than not ? For Iraq, was Iraq better off when Saddam was being welcomed by the West. Iraq was worse off when Saddam had a seperation with the West ?? trogers, do you feel that Thaksin is deluded when he thinks that the Thais who support him are as many as the Thais who will vote for Abhist ? Do you feel that Thaksin is deluded when he thinks that the number of Thais who are happy with him is just as many as the Thais who will be happy under Abhisit ? I believe the future of Thailand lies beyond Thaksin and Abhisit. One is a power hungry tyrant and the other too politically correct. Edited May 23, 2015 by trogers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seajae Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 “We’re waiting for the election next year,” said Sakhon, 66, a retired agriculture ministry official. You would think that as an Agriculture Minister official he would be most aware of what a cock-up the Shin Rice Scheme was. He must have been kicked of he 'gravy train' by the coup. Thankfully, he doesn't represent anyone's views but his own, selfish, narrow ones. rametindallas, so this man represents his own views, and only a small percentage of the Thais have these views ? Only a small percentage of Thais support Thaksin ? Well yes, you could be right. Okay, lets have a general election, with Abhisit competing against Thaksin. Surely, this means that Abhisit will get about (or at least) six or seven per cent more votes than Thaksin ? And this then means that Abhisit will have more MPs than Thaksin, and will be the winner of the election. And once that happens, then Thailand can declare itself to be a democracy, and Thaksin is not in charge. And with Thailand being a democracy, well, the West will restore full political and diplomatic links with Thailand. Surely, it's better for Thailand to have this, rather than reduced poltical links and slowly drifting away from the West ? I certainly wouldn't have a problem with Abhist turning up in America or Britain, and (as the democratically eleted leader of Thailand) he is given a full and warm welcome. how pathetic, you want an election with a convicted criminal on the run standing because you are an appologist for him, shows how uneducated those supporting him are to even consider voting for a criminal. How can a country advance when there are so many people that are incapable of even seeing the truth due entirely to their lack of education and belief in bullsh*t promises, they are too far gone to be able to even see all the lies when it is there right in front of them. Lack of education has a lot to answer for but it is what the ptp/the corrupt rely on to get into power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunchbob Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Can't anyone price their farm products any way they want? Can they sell to anyone they want? You can find your own customers anywhere, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Can't anyone price their farm products any way they want? Can they sell to anyone they want? You can find your own customers anywhere, right? In theory, sure. In the real world, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selftaopath Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Farmers struggling,what happened to all the good money they got for their rice? the concept of saving for a rainy day,must be beyond them,the good times never last forever. So if they are struggling now,does that mean the fortune spent on buying rice was a complete failure. regards worgeordie What good money are we talking about here? Let us say the average rice farm consists of 24 rai and a good yield is one ton/rai. I don't remember the exact figure the farmers were promised by the rice pledging scheme but at the current price of 15 baht/Kg your farmer will have a single crop income of just under £7,000 before costs are subtracted, to last a year. Difficult to find any surplus for a rainy day I think. Until economies of scale come into play (ie farms of 100 rai or more) the only solution is what farmers do now which is to become builders during the non agricultural season. While I can appreciate your comment my view is a little bit different. We live in a village in Isaan; most of the villagers are farmers. From my observations I don't think rice farming is labor intensive. Many here have smartphones and pickup trucks. They celebrate various types of ceremonies which are not free. Drinking, card playing, hanging out, and leisure hammock lounging are high priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonbridgebrit Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 “We’re waiting for the election next year,” said Sakhon, 66, a retired agriculture ministry official. You would think that as an Agriculture Minister official he would be most aware of what a cock-up the Shin Rice Scheme was. He must have been kicked of he 'gravy train' by the coup. Thankfully, he doesn't represent anyone's views but his own, selfish, narrow ones. rametindallas, so this man represents his own views, and only a small percentage of the Thais have these views ? Only a small percentage of Thais support Thaksin ? Well yes, you could be right. Okay, lets have a general election, with Abhisit competing against Thaksin. Surely, this means that Abhisit will get about (or at least) six or seven per cent more votes than Thaksin ? And this then means that Abhisit will have more MPs than Thaksin, and will be the winner of the election. And once that happens, then Thailand can declare itself to be a democracy, and Thaksin is not in charge. And with Thailand being a democracy, well, the West will restore full political and diplomatic links with Thailand. Surely, it's better for Thailand to have this, rather than reduced poltical links and slowly drifting away from the West ? I certainly wouldn't have a problem with Abhist turning up in America or Britain, and (as the democratically eleted leader of Thailand) he is given a full and warm welcome. how pathetic, you want an election with a convicted criminal on the run standing because you are an appologist for him, shows how uneducated those supporting him are to even consider voting for a criminal. How can a country advance when there are so many people that are incapable of even seeing the truth due entirely to their lack of education and belief in bullsh*t promises, they are too far gone to be able to even see all the lies when it is there right in front of them. Lack of education has a lot to answer for but it is what the ptp/the corrupt rely on to get into power Right, so you're saying that Thailand should not have elections because "there are so many people that are incapable of even seeing the truth due entirely to their lack of education and belief in bullsh*t promises, they are too far gone to be able to even see all the lies when it is there right in front of them" ? Is this how you feel ? So you reckon the number of Thais who (according to you) can't see that Thaksin is bad IS greater than the number of Thais who want Abhisit in charge ? I hope no politician in Thailand ever says to the newspapers "the Thai people are too stupid to vote for the benefit of the country, they can't see the lies, don't let the nation have a vote" !! Can you imagine if a politician was to actually say that ? Actually, I'd like to see a politician say it, just so that we can see the public's reponse !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Can't anyone price their farm products any way they want? Can they sell to anyone they want? You can find your own customers anywhere, right? You can, but only when you are debt free. Used to be like this a couple of decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonbridgebrit Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 trogers, you wrote "I believe the future of Thailand lies beyond Thaksin and Abhisit. One is a power hungry tyrant and the other too politically correct".trogers, it might be the case that I feel the same way as you. How about the junta competes in an election with Thaksin and Abhisit ? That way, the Thais who feel that Thaksin is a power hungry tyrant and who also feel that Abhisit is too politically correct, well, those Thais can vote for the junta ?Lee Kuan Yew, did he win a few elections ? I think he did, right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 trogers, you wrote "I believe the future of Thailand lies beyond Thaksin and Abhisit. One is a power hungry tyrant and the other too politically correct". trogers, it might be the case that I feel the same way as you. How about the junta competes in an election with Thaksin and Abhisit ? That way, the Thais who feel that Thaksin is a power hungry tyrant and who also feel that Abhisit is too politically correct, well, those Thais can vote for the junta ? Lee Kuan Yew, did he win a few elections ? I think he did, right ? Lee Kuan Yew had to go through normal elections when Singapore was still a colony under the British. But once the British left with him in power, he placed the media under his control and revamp the courts. The one strong opposition was detained without trial for many decades on grounds that he is a communist. Later opposition parties are weak and do not have much access to the govt controlled media. You can say that the past elections had oppositions tied thumb to toe...thus, even though there were elections, the field was not levelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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