Cameron: Tough times for EU ahead of UK membership vote

[JockPieandBeans]

Agreed - but I still don't understand why the option is being presented as in/out.

Everybody wants free trade and a common market. Nobody wants the UK to go-it-alone in the world.

But nobody I know wants the EU making laws we don't want and untold billions being spent maintaining all the flotsam that goes with it - particularly the massive corruption and unelected representatives on outrageous expenses.

Politicians want European unity because without it, they have less power on the world stage.

At the end of the day, the EU will not let the UK leave because the Domino effect will destroy it. I have a feeling we will be presented with Hobson's choice at the referendum when really the people want something in the middle.

Nobody wants the UK to go-it-alone in the world.

Who is nobody?

The UK would be better off out of the EU. We can trade with them but don't want their laws and BS which actually holds the UK back from progress. Imagine if we had the Euro currency instead of the Great British Pound. We would be in a worse situation than we are in.

Why surrender soveriegnty to the EU, we turned our backs on the commonwealth countries to join the EU, Why The UK could have created it's own larger (than the EU) trading block with these countries and we would have been better placed to take advantage of Emerging markets.

If countries like Iceland on it's own can negotiate trade deals with China why can't the UK? WHy would the EU stop countries from being able to make their own trade deals?

What Germany couldn't do with the War it is doing diplomatically. Does the UK want to be part of what is in effect a German Third Riech?

If/When we actually join the Euro currency, you will see the biggest devaluation of the GBP in the History of the country. After all if we stay in we will have to adopt the Euro sooner or later.

Hands up for those tha want to get 36-37 Euros to the Baht compared to 52 Baht to the Gbp at current exchange rates?

...and that in a nutshell is why UK needs the EU.

Then perhaps you could explain why :

1. The UK pays circa £6 Billion per annum more than it receives ?

2. Perhaps you could explain why it is directed to pay circa £12 Billion pounds in overseas aid to corrupt Governments ?

3. Perhaps you could explain why the majority of British Companies that wish to remain in the EU are actually owned by foreigners ?

4 Perhaps you can explain can explain why 4 Countries are Net contributors and the other 24 are leeches ?

5. Perhaps you can tell us what leeching Country you come from ?

6. Perhaps you could explain why all this has happened and the people ( the taxpayer ) who actually fund this have never been asked ?

Feel free to fill your boots.

[RustBucket]

Anyone who thinks Uk would be better off outside the EU either needs their head looking at or is under 23 years old

I am 50 and have studied politics for years and I KNOW the UK would be better off out of the EU.

Please give us a list of what exactly we need the EU for?

The UK was a trading superpower long before the EU came along.

[steve187]

if anyone thinks they will not be better off leaving the EU, they need their heads looking at, or are under 20.

It's time that the country as a whole decided where we want to be, staying in the common market was what was decided in the referendum of 1975, not handing over control of the UK to a bunch of Europeans who we have never really gotten on well with.

Lets stand on our own, and trade with the whole world, and lets bring back control of our own borders, and keep the NHS for the people that it was intended for.

[RustBucket]

The promise of consulting the nation on EU membership was an election ploy and a sop to anti-EU Tories. Now back in office with a workable majority, and stuck with the referendum he doesn't really want, Cameron will pull out all the propaganda stops to ensure he gets a "No" vote to pulling out, irrespective of whether or not he gets any "concessions":

If I'm wrong I'll eat Paddy Ashdown's chocolate hat.

You are totally correct.

I also believe the UK will vote to stay in after all the fear-mongering gets to work on the public, he will also rig who can vote including 16 YOs and EU migrants already there.

However, this will almost certainly cause MASSIVE splits in the Tory party. There is now said to be up to as many as 200 Tory MPs who want out of the EU, and this referendum (should Cameron stitch the UK up into voting IN) could spark a flurry of Tory defections to the likes of UKIP.

Cameron is not in a very nice position. If they get defections, they could easily lose their majority status. So Cameron is going to have to make some serious decisions concerning his Eurosceptic rank and file.

Just 5 defections and they fall below the majority threshold.

[cumgranosalum]

I think the Billions of reasons annually, highlighted in post 11, backed up by source confirms my argument.

I also highlighted that 24 of the 28 Countries in the EU are leechers, which one of the leechers are you from ?

I have to say that drawing a conclusion from a single set of unreferenced figures just doesn't hack it as an argument against EU membership........if you join an organisation you pay and reap the benefits - it's simple accounting.

Uk economy has benefitted immensely from EU membership -

Then simply back up your assertions. And provide a link that refutes mine.

If you cannot do that. It is time to give it a rest.

I expect people to be reasonably informed in a discussion, if not then they should do the research...that is not up to me. In reality those who keep asking for references usually don't actually have an argument themselves and the fact they keep asking certainly indicates they don't understand how to use/analyse references themselves - so in this case it would be a case of pearl before swine?

PS - if further evidence were needed you link does not actually do what you claim! - and you haven't even provided source yourself

Edited May 24, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

it some some poeple are unaware of the shear amounts of money in the economy compared to the money we pay to the EU as part of membership...

for example - "However, being a member of the EU for trade and economy links is FAR MORE valuable than £6bn- so membership to the EU basically makes back it's membership fee and more." Daily Mirror

[winstonc]

it some some poeple are unaware of the shear amounts of money in the economy compared to the money we pay to the EU as part of membership...

for example - "However, being a member of the EU for trade and economy links is FAR MORE valuable than £6bn- so membership to the EU basically makes back it's membership fee and more." Daily Mirror

quoting the daily mirror..your finger nails are clinging to the cliff,s edge if thats all you can come up with..your happy for the status quo..yes..cos you dont live there anymore...if you ever did..you cannot come up with one thing about how bad it is..your trolling or work for the bbc who get a grant from the eu every year to promote the eu..now go and check some facts before ..you return from your drunken stupor..

[cumgranosalum]

it some some poeple are unaware of the shear amounts of money in the economy compared to the money we pay to the EU as part of membership...

for example - "However, being a member of the EU for trade and economy links is FAR MORE valuable than £6bn- so membership to the EU basically makes back it's membership fee and more." Daily Mirror

quoting the daily mirror..your finger nails are clinging to the cliff,s edge if thats all you can come up with..your happy for the status quo..yes..cos you dont live there anymore...if you ever did..you cannot come up with one thing about how bad it is..your trolling or work for the bbc who get a grant from the eu every year to promote the eu..now go and check some facts before ..you return from your drunken stupor..

yet more evidence that you simply don't understand how to use read or analyse a source - it is fairly obvious to most that the Mirror is a secondary or tertiary source - the information is the important thing here - you are ignoring the message and attacking the messenger....very elementary stuff.

in fact your other comments in this paragraph just go to show thet your grasp of how to get information is negligible.

You also make it clear that your thinking is based on totally unsubstantiated assumptions

you have failed to show the source of your chart too... yet you think you should be taken seriously?

[JockPieandBeans]

it some some poeple are unaware of the shear amounts of money in the economy compared to the money we pay to the EU as part of membership...

for example - "However, being a member of the EU for trade and economy links is FAR MORE valuable than £6bn- so membership to the EU basically makes back it's membership fee and more." Daily Mirror

I am fully aware of the sheer amounts of money that the UK economy is wasting being a member of the EU.

Here it is again for you.

Then perhaps you could explain why :

1. The UK pays circa £6 Billion per annum more than it receives ?

2. Perhaps you could explain why it is directed to pay circa £12 Billion pounds in overseas aid to corrupt Governments ?

3. Perhaps you could explain why the majority of British Companies that wish to remain in the EU are actually owned by foreigners ?

4 Perhaps you can explain can explain why 4 Countries are Net contributors and the other 24 are leeches ?

5. Perhaps you can tell us what leeching Country you come from ?

6. Perhaps you could explain why all this has happened and the people ( the taxpayer ) who actually fund this have never been asked ?

Feel free to fill your boots.

No answers ?

Thought not.

Your post above at 09:23 highlights quite clearly, why you quote from the Daily Mirror.

[cdnvic]

Don't get personal please.

[puck2]

It's very sad to recognise that many members - here in TV and in real life - only think about their advantage in such an "EU-club". Advantage = money. Please, let me tell you a Greman joke, rather realistic:

10 men regularly have a dinner in the pub: a Greec, an Italian, a French, a Portuguese, a Spaniard. a Swede, a Brit, a Pole, a Dutch and a German. It didn't come cheaply, 500 Euro for all. The guests settled the bill as follows:

- 4 guests payed 0 € the Greec, the Polish, the Spaniard and the Portuguese

- the Swede 1 €

- the Dutch 5 €

- the Italien 50 €

- the Brit 80 €

- the French 100 €

- the German 264 €

Se: 500 €

Because they liked this dinner so much they had had it again and again and evberybody was happy. Every dinner costed exactly 500 €. The host of the pub was so happy and told them: "my dear guests, from now on you will get a discount of 10%."

The guests did their math and ascertained beyond doubt that every paying member (6) would save 8,33 €. But then they recognised the Swede and the Dutch would receive some money for having a dinner. O my dear, that won't work.

The host sugested then the 10% discount should go to those who had to pay. His proposal

- the four who didn't pay any € , no change

- the Swede 0 € - saving 100%

- the Dutch 4 € - saving 20%

- the Italien 45 € - saving 10%

- the Brit 72 € - saving 10%

- the French 90 € - saving 10%

- the Germa 239 € - saving 11%

Se: 450 € - saving 50 €

The first 4 mentioned would have a lunch for free -as before - and the remaining 6 guests would pay less !

After the dinner they had their doubts and calculated again.

The Swede said " I've got only 1 € and pointing at the German but he saved 25 €.

"Yes", confirmed the Dutch, "me only 1 €, but the Greman 20 times more".

"How true", the Brit demured. "Why does he get back 25, me only 8 ? The Germans are getting all, as always."

And the Greec, the Polish, the Spaniard and the Portoguese ananimously: "Hold it. We didn't get anything. The system exploits us."

Out of nowhere all 9 attacked the German and pummelt him.

Next time the German didn't appaer for the dinner. The remainder 9 had their dinner alone. When there was the moment to pay the bill they have been surpised, very surprised.

All 9 together didn't have enbough money in their pockets to pay for their sumptuous dinner !

Dear members, think about the intentions of such a club.

Edited May 25, 2015 by puck2

[Andrew65]

David Cameron presents his "renegotiation" with the EU as something that is likely to yield big, tangible results, on the kinds of issues that worry most Brits.

The biggest one of all being immigration/free movement of people. It would seem that this means people from anywhere in the world, not just the EU.

Also, whether they should receive health-care, welfare etc.

The free movement of people is one of the most central tenets of the EU. He will receive absolutely nothing on this, seeing as it requires a treaty change, and the acquiescence of all of the other members. It would also set a precedent whereby other members might push for the things that they want. Ain't gonna happen!!

I remember some years ago, Blair managed to sign away at least some of the rebate that Maggie negotiated. This was made out to be something that came with the "concession" that the French would "look at", in the future, the lavish CAP payments that they receive. Still waiting to hear of any news on that one about seven years later!

Readers may remember that last year there was news that Britain would probably need to stump-up about an extra six billion quid a year in membership fees. No news on that either, during or since the election campaign.

Sadly, I believe that the British people will be badgered, scare-mongered and deceived into voting for, and being absorbed into, a European Super State, the referendum will be the last chance-saloon!!

[Andrew65]

It's very sad to recognise that many members - here in TV and in real life - only think about their advantage in such an "EU-club". Advantage = money. Please, let me tell you a Greman joke, rather realistic:

10 men regularly have a dinner in the pub: a Greec, an Italian, a French, a Portuguese, a Spaniard. a Swede, a Brit, a Pole, a Dutch and a German. It didn't come cheaply, 500 Euro for all. The guests settled the bill as follows:

- 4 guests payed 0 € the Greec, the Polish, the Spaniard and the Portuguese

- the Swede 1 €

- the Dutch 5 €

- the Italien 50 €

- the Brit 80 €

- the French 100 €

- the German 264 €

Se: 500 €

Because they liked this dinner so much they had had it again and again and evberybody was happy. Every dinner costed exactly 500 €. The host of the pub was so happy and told them: "my dear guests, from now on you will get a discount of 10%."

The guests did their math and ascertained beyond doubt that every paying member (6) would save 8,33 €. But then they recognised the Swede and the Dutch would receive some money for having a dinner. O my dear, that won't work.

The host sugested then the 10% discount should go to those who had to pay. His proposal

- the four who didn't pay any € , no change

- the Swede 0 € - saving 100%

- the Dutch 4 € - saving 20%

- the Italien 45 € - saving 10%

- the Brit 72 € - saving 10%

- the French 90 € - saving 10%

- the Germa 239 € - saving 11%

Se: 450 € - saving 50 €

The first 4 mentioned would have a lunch for free -as before - and the remaining 6 guests would pay less !

After the dinner they had their doubts and calculated again.

The Swede said " I've got only 1 € and pointing at the German but he saved 25 €.

"Yes", confirmed the Dutch, "me only 1 €, but the Greman 20 times more".

"How true", the Brit demured. "Why does he get back 25, me only 8 ? The Germans are getting all, as always."

And the Greec, the Polish, the Spaniard and the Portoguese ananimously: "Hold it. We didn't get anything. The system exploits us."

Out of nowhere all 9 attacked the German and pummelt him.

Next time the German didn't appaer for the dinner. The remainder 9 had their dinner alone. When there was the moment to pay the bill they have been surpised, very surprised.

All 9 together didn't have enbough money in their pockets to pay for their sumptuous dinner !

Dear members, think about the intentions of such a club.

When we invite PIGS to dinner, we shouldn't moan about it when the bill arrives!