Thai year-old coup imposes superficial calm but little else

[Bakseeda]

I'll take a "superficial calm" any day over what was about to happen.... an all out civil war with the likely deaths of thousands and a splitting of the country into "Thaksinland" and the rest of Thailand....

And your basis of this was what? your opinion only?

Not a single Country put out a danger warning calling for all it's citizens to flee the Kingdom due to civil war being imminent

Not a single Intelligence agency believed civil war was about to unfold.

There has already been a civil war ongoing for the past 10 years in the South.

There was never the logistical support to launch a civil war, what were they going to use weapons wise?

Who was going to go to war? All the reds against all the yellows?

Why was the whole of the Royal Thai Army not on a war footing, Ports and Airports under Military control?

Thaksinland and the rest of Thailand? Do you mean the whole of the country against Bangkok?

What makes you think the Thais have the stomach to go all out and engage each other where thousands will have been killed?

By stating there would have been an all out civil war, it would be safe to say you believe the "yellows/Non Thaksin" elements to be sufficiently armed to protect themselves, and at some stage go on the offensive?

Do you honestly believe the RTA would have been able to function after mass desertions with lots of soldiers returning home to defend their families from reds/yellows/and greens?

How much military knowledge do you posses, to be able to begin to fathom how much logistics, from basics like Ammunition, Vehicles and POL (fuel) required to mobilise even 1,000 hardcore fighters on both sides? considering the magic number of 7% keeps getting mentioned as to the strength of the UDD, that by the way is a whopping 4.5 MILLION people, I doubt the Chinese Army could mobilise this much at short notice.

Who would command the sides considering you still have Army officers within the RTA who are loyal to Thaksin in some shape or form..

Why all this hot-air about what might have happened... The Thai peoples are where they are...Right now... The Junta are in power, Thaksin is still a run-away criminal... And us Farangs cannot buy land... The whole situation has absolutely nothing to do with us Farangs... What I have noted throughout all the yellowshirt/redshirt conflict , it seems to me ... that the red shirts are made up of mostly uneducated , lazy , give me something for nothing peoples.. whereas the yellow shirts can at least iron those yellow shirts.. But we have them in every country... in England we called them labour supporters... and that bunch have just been absolutely wiped out in the UK. Thailand will come of age one day... and those same peoples will realise that there is no such thing as a free ride... get educated, get up from your bed in the mornings and work.... Stop looking for handouts... But...."Dream On"... Rock on Prayuth..

[Fat Haggis]

So the claims/boast of having a million guns (by your PTP/UDD/TCP heroes) was a totally responsible and therefore completely benign and unthreatening porkie?

Not my heroes, but if you care to show in all of my 3000 odd posts where I've declared any support for the Reds, be my guest, unlike you, I don't do heroes in Thailand, all my heroes were friends and colleague who bled and died in Iraq and Afghanistan, there isn't a single Thai worthy of that sort of worship. I'll leave that up to the fan boys here

Personally I think Thaksin and the PTP and the UDD are a shower of intimate female anatomy.

But the claims of having a million guns? Yep an exaggeration, and a headline grabber, tell me Inspector Clouseau, has a million guns been recovered in all these arms seizure, which pretty much dried up after the first few months of the coup, and at best, in total, there wasn't enough to outfit a Battalion (6-700 men) and certainly not enough to wage and maintain a civil war, which if you've read up on generally last 5+ years.

You are familiar with how much ammo would be needed to go along with these million guns? And how much would be needed to wage and conduct any sort of war, never mind a civil one?

So yeah based on my own experiences in a semi civil war, nope, I didn't rate the UDD capable then, and even less capable now.

didn't your heroes keep stating things like, we will have a million on the streets, and "this is the final push" ad nauseum !!

Didn't one of your heroes also state "there will be no coup" .... what about those porkies?

You are entitled to your opinion about us Thais and your judgment of worthiness when it comes to heroes. Still before doing it you should asked the people in Iraq and Afghanistan how they feel about your heroes and what was left of their countries after you and your colleagues left them or as the case in Afghanistan going to leave.

Well I'm still in Iraq after 11 years, and have seen the changes there, and for the better, but one thing that's never stopped, regardless of who was the power, is the corruption, it flows daily from a National Level to a local level, they too had the belief that it would stop.

I have seen the infrastructure being built up in Iraq, from power stations to tens of thousands of jobs created all down to Western influence, so with all due respect, you really should know a little bit more about what you're talking about before trying to make a point that isn't very good one. I cannot speak for the way Afghanistan is run, but that's another country where corruption is a way of everyday life.

You might want to look up the definition of hero, and what they stand for, so when Deer hunter stated the PTP/UDD were my heroes, he couldn't have been further from the truth

Becoming a hero to me isn't something that would come easy.

[ballpoint]

There are many benefits from having Law and Order restored.

I can cross Bangkok without having to worry about being shot or bombed by a red-shirted terrorist.

Business owners and shopkeepers can get on with their liveliehoods without fear of being maimed or killed by political protesters.

Yes we can isolate a few, frankly not very important other than to a very small number of people, areas - but plenty of people are reading the Bangkok Post which is clearly anti-Junta aren't they.

Hopefully the Government will really tackle the methods used by vote rigging, vote buying would be MPs. When they are caught they should be banned from public life in any capacity for life along with all who helped them. Their Parties should be fined out of existence.

If we do not stamp out political corruption and vote buying - we will never get rid of the Shinawatra plagues.

I see you don't mention also being able to fly in and out of the country freely.

As for vote buying, even the stupidest person can work out that if somebody offers 500 baht for their vote, they can take the money and vote for who they please. Nobody knows where they actually put their X.

But a smarter person will realise that, in a village polling station where a few hundred people vote and the ballots are counted on the spot, it's very easy to determine if those people never voted for who they promised they would, and punish the village accordingly. The withholding of subsidies they should get for flooded rice land being a popular one. And, as the head man has a lot at stake in this, he will have a very good idea of exactly who voted for who should that happen.

[z42]

"...and no input from the Pheu Thai party it toppled or their supporters, who likely still represent a majority of the electorate."

Nothing but junta propaganda polls say any different.

It wasn't toppled though was it. Yingluck dissolved parliament about 6 months prior and was impeached by the courts the previous week for abuse of power (nepotism). The caretaker administration was seen to be not tackling the almost daily shootings and bombings through pushing propwe conventional policing methods.

The army stopped the killings and bombings. A lot of other seemingly shady stuff they are involved in has surfaced.

Also about a majority of voters. Wrong. 51% of Thais voted for other parties in the 2011 polls. The numbers don't lie. Google it

[Fat Haggis]

but they didn't side with the Democrats, to form a coalition, and it's doubtful any party would.

[Tchooptip]

I think he's done a fantastic job.

Here in Phuket the beaches have never looked better. There has been a serious dent in the cesspool of corruption that was Phuket last year.

The progress here in Phuket would have been unimaginable without the coup. I'm a big supporter of the General and hope he stays in office forever. Who needs democracy?

"Who needs democracy?"

I love that

[DevZerO]

democracy is acceptance of the majority who has voting power.

democracy does not define that outsiders with no voting power needs to agree with the system.

if majority of voting citizens in the country agrees to a system there is democracy.

if the system doesn't entertain needs of selected few that is not a failure of democracy, that is prevention of corruption.

[waitforusalso]

I like it calm

Don't miss the red shirts shooting or burning down something

Red shirts only come out when they've been @!#%ed over, so you should be concerned with the people who @!#% them over.

[waitforusalso]

"...and no input from the Pheu Thai party it toppled or their supporters, who likely still represent a majority of the electorate."

Nothing but junta propaganda polls say any different.

It wasn't toppled though was it. Yingluck dissolved parliament about 6 months prior and was impeached by the courts the previous week for abuse of power (nepotism). The caretaker administration was seen to be not tackling the almost daily shootings and bombings through pushing propwe conventional policing methods.

The army stopped the killings and bombings. A lot of other seemingly shady stuff they are involved in has surfaced.

Also about a majority of voters. Wrong. 51% of Thais voted for other parties in the 2011 polls. The numbers don't lie. Google it

Whatever childish arguments you try to make, they don't change the facts. The PTP was clearly voted into power. The reason they dissolved parliament was to let the people again decide on the direction of the country, BUT...

[Thaidream]

Many of the posters both pro and con have excellent points to make. As a long time Thai resident- I honestly believe the General has made many positive changes in Thailand regardless of how he came to power.He does not act or talk like a politician and that alone is refreshing. Democracy, while flawed, is the only show for much of the World. I would like to see Thailand develop it's own Democracy based more on the British system than the American .. At some point both the Reds and the Yellows will have to talk and try to find some common ground. Compromise and listening to both sides of a dispute is the basis of any democratic system. The problem in most countries today is that the wealthy have ultimate control and do not want to lessen their grip. In addition, the lack of any ethical or moral perspective in so many people has lead to more greed and avarice. Real heroes or role models are hard to find.

[dageurreotype]

How about renewing a visa at the Phuket Immigration shithole? That's all changed. Bribes are no longer standard operating procedure.

Well, not without a 'mediator', anyway ..

[dageurreotype]

Erm.. yes they did in 2006..

Thaksin was the first politician to go full term and return to an election in the countries modern history.. and second term he won 460 or 500 seats in that aspect and 61% of the vote..

Explain how by any measure those are not majorities ??

It was that amazing popularity which freaked the generals out, perhap he would even have had the power to restructure the military and bring it under civilian control ?? Given Thailands history of military meddling isnt that exactly what a strong democracy actually needs ?? Instead of the opposite which is being served.

You've a short memory. everyone was sick to the eye teeth with Taksin and his megalomania. His curtailment of the press, remember that little placard he used to hold up with an 'X' to indicate he didn't like or want to answer a reporter's question? He was also a mere caretaker government. Where were all his supporters when the the door was slammed in his face on his return from the US. Not a peep out of any of them.

[northernjohn]

"Thailand's junta argues it is working to create the foundation for a stable democracy, and while it does, liberties and freedom of speech that could sow division must be curtailed. "We need an environment that is conducive to dialogue, where people can speak to one another," said Maj. Gen. Weerachon Sukhondhapatipak, a junta spokesman."

Did a junta spokesman really make these two contradictory statements?

There is a big difference between speaking to each other and ranting in front of crowds. Or printing one sided arguments designed to benefit one's own self in a news paper.

[MockingJay]

I think he's done a fantastic job.

Here in Phuket the beaches have never looked better. There has been a serious dent in the cesspool of corruption that was Phuket last year.

The progress here in Phuket would have been unimaginable without the coup. I'm a big supporter of the General and hope he stays in office forever. Who needs democracy?

I feel sick...

[kingalfred]

So the claims/boast of having a million guns (by your PTP/UDD/TCP heroes) was a totally responsible and therefore completely benign and unthreatening porkie?

Not my heroes, but if you care to show in all of my 3000 odd posts where I've declared any support for the Reds, be my guest, unlike you, I don't do heroes in Thailand, all my heroes were friends and colleague who bled and died in Iraq and Afghanistan, there isn't a single Thai worthy of that sort of worship. I'll leave that up to the fan boys here

Personally I think Thaksin and the PTP and the UDD are a shower of intimate female anatomy.

But the claims of having a million guns? Yep an exaggeration, and a headline grabber, tell me Inspector Clouseau, has a million guns been recovered in all these arms seizure, which pretty much dried up after the first few months of the coup, and at best, in total, there wasn't enough to outfit a Battalion (6-700 men) and certainly not enough to wage and maintain a civil war, which if you've read up on generally last 5+ years.

You are familiar with how much ammo would be needed to go along with these million guns? And how much would be needed to wage and conduct any sort of war, never mind a civil one?

So yeah based on my own experiences in a semi civil war, nope, I didn't rate the UDD capable then, and even less capable now.

didn't your heroes keep stating things like, we will have a million on the streets, and "this is the final push" ad nauseum !!

Didn't one of your heroes also state "there will be no coup" .... what about those porkies?

You are entitled to your opinion about us Thais and your judgment of worthiness when it comes to heroes. Still before doing it you should asked the people in Iraq and Afghanistan how they feel about your heroes and what was left of their countries after you and your colleagues left them or as the case in Afghanistan going to leave.

Well I'm still in Iraq after 11 years, and have seen the changes there, and for the better, but one thing that's never stopped, regardless of who was the power, is the corruption, it flows daily from a National Level to a local level, they too had the belief that it would stop.

I have seen the infrastructure being built up in Iraq, from power stations to tens of thousands of jobs created all down to Western influence, so with all due respect, you really should know a little bit more about what you're talking about before trying to make a point that isn't very good one. I cannot speak for the way Afghanistan is run, but that's another country where corruption is a way of everyday life.

You might want to look up the definition of hero, and what they stand for, so when Deer hunter stated the PTP/UDD were my heroes, he couldn't have been further from the truth

Becoming a hero to me isn't something that would come easy.

things are better in Iraq?Haha amazing description of "better"

[heybruce]

"...and no input from the Pheu Thai party it toppled or their supporters, who likely still represent a majority of the electorate."

Nothing but junta propaganda polls say any different.

It wasn't toppled though was it. Yingluck dissolved parliament about 6 months prior and was impeached by the courts the previous week for abuse of power (nepotism). The caretaker administration was seen to be not tackling the almost daily shootings and bombings through pushing propwe conventional policing methods.

The army stopped the killings and bombings. A lot of other seemingly shady stuff they are involved in has surfaced.

Also about a majority of voters. Wrong. 51% of Thais voted for other parties in the 2011 polls. The numbers don't lie. Google it

It wasn't toppled? Yingluck dissolved parliament in order to hold new elections, in accordance with the constitution. The court removed Yingluck from office but left the PTP in charge of caretaker government, also in accordance with the constitution. The military toppled this government, suspended the constitution, dissolved all democratic institutions, imposed martial law and censorship, banned political gatherings, etc. The military very thoroughly toppled any semblance of the government created in accordance with the military's 2007 constitution.

In short, it was a coup, the government was toppled, and your lame attempt at rewriting history is a farce.

The PTP won the election by winning far more votes than any other party in the 2011 election and winning a majority of the seats in parliament, all in accordance with the 2007 constitution written for the military after the 2006 coup. Google it.

[halloween]

Ahh but he makes the trains run on time.. Is a standard strongman argument.. Cleaning a beach or sorting a taxi rank doesnt exactly match up against the incredible loss of economic activity, the missguided poverty being imposed on the huge poor populations in the NE the cutting of the second rice crops, etc etc etc..

How hard to understand is it that the second rice crop was reduced because there isn't enough bloody water? Should they tell them to go ahead and let the crops fail, or drain the reservoirs and let the townspeople die of thirst?

Just which part of drought don't you understand?

[heybruce]

"Thailand's junta argues it is working to create the foundation for a stable democracy, and while it does, liberties and freedom of speech that could sow division must be curtailed. "We need an environment that is conducive to dialogue, where people can speak to one another," said Maj. Gen. Weerachon Sukhondhapatipak, a junta spokesman."

Did a junta spokesman really make these two contradictory statements?

There is a big difference between speaking to each other and ranting in front of crowds. Or printing one sided arguments designed to benefit one's own self in a news paper.

Prayuth, by censoring the press and forbidding articles critical of the junta, is, to use your words, only allowing "one sided arguments designed to benefit one's own self in a news paper". Point taken.

I'm not sure who you're referring to when you mention ranting in front of crowds, since Suthep became a monk I don't recall much public ranting.

Please explain how the ban on political gatherings is conducive to dialogue.

[halloween]

The poster has a good point. There is no doubt the Reds have a case to make. However, their methods are flawed. They need a new leader who is charismatic and can negotiate with the other side in good faith.

Given he or his poxys have won every fair election for the last 14 years.. Why is it them that needs to look for a new leader ??

Because he ia a criminal more interested in enriching himself than helping his supporters.

BTW "poxys" - what a delightful Freudian slip.

[z42]

"...and no input from the Pheu Thai party it toppled or their supporters, who likely still represent a majority of the electorate."

Nothing but junta propaganda polls say any different.

It wasn't toppled though was it. Yingluck dissolved parliament about 6 months prior and was impeached by the courts the previous week for abuse of power (nepotism). The caretaker administration was seen to be not tackling the almost daily shootings and bombings through pushing propwe conventional policing methods.

The army stopped the killings and bombings. A lot of other seemingly shady stuff they are involved in has surfaced.

Also about a majority of voters. Wrong. 51% of Thais voted for other parties in the 2011 polls. The numbers don't lie. Google it

Whatever childish arguments you try to make, they don't change the facts. The PTP was clearly voted into power. The reason they dissolved parliament was to let the people again decide on the direction of the country, BUT...

Not a childish argument, PTP were voted in but the fact remains in 2011 the majority of the electorate who bothered to vote did vote elsewhere. You said and I quote "who likely still represent a majority of the electorate" is more than likely to be false. I mean a lot of these farmers now know they were used as pawns & are less likely than before to swallow shin lies. Also wasn't it general prayuth who got them all paid their money pretty much immediately after taking over.

These kind of things, despite what we say, will likely hold him in good stead with people who otherwise might have taken a dim view of him otherwise. The landscape may well have changed, or it may be completely the same as it was pre coup.

Also why include the picture, what exactly are you trying to say? Why didn't you post pictures of blown up children or the video clips of ko tee claiming his intention was to start a civil war if the so called elites stole democracy?

I'm here for debate, but simply stating stuff that is patently false just smacks of an agenda. Try again though and would be good to debate what you pitch then

[LivinLOS]

if the system doesn't entertain needs of selected few that is not a failure of democracy, that is prevention of corruption.

Your talking about the army and urban elite I take it ??

After all they are clearly the select few and minority view, as every election for years has made clear.

[LivinLOS]

Erm.. yes they did in 2006..

Thaksin was the first politician to go full term and return to an election in the countries modern history.. and second term he won 460 or 500 seats in that aspect and 61% of the vote..

Explain how by any measure those are not majorities ??

It was that amazing popularity which freaked the generals out, perhap he would even have had the power to restructure the military and bring it under civilian control ?? Given Thailands history of military meddling isnt that exactly what a strong democracy actually needs ?? Instead of the opposite which is being served.

You've a short memory. everyone was sick to the eye teeth with Taksin and his megalomania. His curtailment of the press, remember that little placard he used to hold up with an 'X' to indicate he didn't like or want to answer a reporter's question? He was also a mere caretaker government. Where were all his supporters when the the door was slammed in his face on his return from the US. Not a peep out of any of them.

So why didnt they just, you know, campaign and beat him in an election ??

This is the moral bankruptcy of the democrat party.. If thaksin made such a mess, and ruined the economy (which did so much better than any one else, paid back the IMF in record time, brought huge areas of rural people out of abject poverty)..

Why did they not simply campaign and win ?? Rather than have a coup and give him the moral high ground ??

[yellowboat]

I think he's done a fantastic job.

Here in Phuket the beaches have never looked better. There has been a serious dent in the cesspool of corruption that was Phuket last year.

The progress here in Phuket would have been unimaginable without the coup. I'm a big supporter of the General and hope he stays in office forever. Who needs democracy?

You are right. Who needs representative government when you have clean beaches ? Those who wish to be treated fairly and see periodic change need universal suffrage. Thailand had a coup to clean up its beaches. The frivolity on this site and its poster never cease to amaze.

Why can other countries who have elections deal with their problems where Thailand is just a basket case ?

[tbthailand]

I like it calm

Don't miss the red shirts shooting or burning down something

or the yellow shirts shooting and killing people...

why is it always so one sided with junta-huggers??

[tbthailand]

"We need an environment that is conducive to dialogue, where people can speak to one another," said Maj. Gen. Weerachon Sukhondhapatipak, a junta spokesman.

these generals lie shamelessly and appear to not care if it is obvious to everyone...

[KarenBravo]

I think he's done a fantastic job.

Here in Phuket the beaches have never looked better. There has been a serious dent in the cesspool of corruption that was Phuket last year.

The progress here in Phuket would have been unimaginable without the coup. I'm a big supporter of the General and hope he stays in office forever. Who needs democracy?

What rubbish.

The beaches may "look" better, but, the area allowed for swimming has been reduced because a bigger area has been given to the jet-ski and parasailing operators.

Regular tourists are vowing not to come back because they can't rent a beach chair, or even bring their own.

Surin now has jet-skis whereas before, they didn't.

A recent article shows that Kata / Karon is a ghost town.

Corruption continues unabated. Taxis and tuk-tuks have increased their fares. The promised inter-beach bus route hasn't happened.

Not a single Phuket problem has been fixed by the junta. All those taxi drivers and the mayor of Karon are still free. Commerce is back on the beaches.

"Serious dent in corruption" my arse......

[metisdead]

An off topic post about the UK elections has been removed.

[The Deerhunter]

I'll take a "superficial calm" any day over what was about to happen.... an all out civil war with the likely deaths of thousands and a splitting of the country into "Thaksinland" and the rest of Thailand....

And your basis of this was what? your opinion only?

Not a single Country put out a danger warning calling for all it's citizens to flee the Kingdom due to civil war being imminent

Not a single Intelligence agency believed civil war was about to unfold.

There has already been a civil war ongoing for the past 10 years in the South.

There was never the logistical support to launch a civil war, what were they going to use weapons wise?

Who was going to go to war? All the reds against all the yellows?

Why was the whole of the Royal Thai Army not on a war footing, Ports and Airports under Military control?

Thaksinland and the rest of Thailand? Do you mean the whole of the country against Bangkok?

What makes you think the Thais have the stomach to go all out and engage each other where thousands will have been killed?

By stating there would have been an all out civil war, it would be safe to say you believe the "yellows/Non Thaksin" elements to be sufficiently armed to protect themselves, and at some stage go on the offensive?

Do you honestly believe the RTA would have been able to function after mass desertions with lots of soldiers returning home to defend their families from reds/yellows/and greens?

How much military knowledge do you posses, to be able to begin to fathom how much logistics, from basics like Ammunition, Vehicles and POL (fuel) required to mobilise even 1,000 hardcore fighters on both sides? considering the magic number of 7% keeps getting mentioned as to the strength of the UDD, that by the way is a whopping 4.5 MILLION people, I doubt the Chinese Army could mobilise this much at short notice.

Who would command the sides considering you still have Army officers within the RTA who are loyal to Thaksin in some shape or form..

So the claims/boast of having a million guns (by your PTP/UDD/TCP heroes) was a totally responsible and therefore completely benign and unthreatening porkie?

Not my heroes, but if you care to show in all of my 3000 odd posts where I've declared any support for the Reds, be my guest, unlike you, I don't do heroes in Thailand, all my heroes were friends and colleague who bled and died in Iraq and Afghanistan, there isn't a single Thai worthy of that sort of worship. I'll leave that up to the fan boys here

Personally I think Thaksin and the PTP and the UDD are a shower of intimate female anatomy.

But the claims of having a million guns? Yep an exaggeration, and a headline grabber, tell me Inspector Clouseau, has a million guns been recovered in all these arms seizure, which pretty much dried up after the first few months of the coup, and at best, in total, there wasn't enough to outfit a Battalion (6-700 men) and certainly not enough to wage and maintain a civil war, which if you've read up on generally last 5+ years.

You are familiar with how much ammo would be needed to go along with these million guns? And how much would be needed to wage and conduct any sort of war, never mind a civil one?

So yeah based on my own experiences in a semi civil war, nope, I didn't rate the UDD capable then, and even less capable now.

didn't your heroes keep stating things like, we will have a million on the streets, and "this is the final push" ad nauseum !!

Didn't one of your heroes also state "there will be no coup" .... what about those porkies?

I owned a gunshop for 20 years and got tired for how hard it was to get 223 (AR15/M16 & C9 ammo line) .308 (M60 & Minigun ammo line) since 9/11. I know a bit about ammo supply & volumes.

I do not do heros here either (All my heros wore spurs). If Suthep (or his family) are into any form of property corruption or park encroachment, prosecute them. My one agreement with Suthep is he did a wonderful job for 6-7 months reminding people of all Thaksin's sins.

Suthep started ok but eventually came to believe his own promos & having crazy delusions of grandeur.

& Too many people up north still dream about going back to the glory days before 1909. Apart from anything else they need a port (not in China either.)

Edited May 24, 2015 by The Deerhunter

[Artisi]

I like it calm

Don't miss the red shirts shooting or burning down something

Or the yellowshirts barricading themselves inside the international airport and halting all flights, out bound and inbound, causing huge damage to the tourism industry.

Old old history and really not relevant, but yes the yellow shirts did occupy the airport but they didn't

halt any flights, that was solely a function of the airport authority.

[LivinLOS]

I do not do heros here either (All my heros wore spurs). If Suthep (or his family) are into any form of property corruption or park encroachment, prosecute them.

The land scandals which brought down the Leekpai government ??

Or the palm oil price manipulation scandals while he was deputy PM last time he got near power ??

Or the use of live rounds after being explicitly told by legislators that this action wasnt legal ??

Which one do we go at first ??