Non-O Visa Failure - Not Accepting Proof of Income (?)

[JeffreyO]

Hey all,

I scoured the forums through search functions but I wasn't able to find anyone (recently) reporting the same issue. Today myself and my wife (Thai) went to the immigration office at Chaeng Watthana 13 Yaek 3-2-15, I don't know the official name of this building. It's the large office near the courts. Anyways, I had a affidavit from the US embassy showing that I had more than enough income requirement of 40,000 baht a month from an external source to apply for the Non-O visa status. After I sat down with my wife the immigration officer, who was particularly rude, told us that you can not use proof of income for Non-O due to marriage and only 400,000 baht in a bank account would suffice. I argued, I had their form that they handed me that said for the non-O 40,000 baht a month is allowed OR 400,000, she still denied me. I asked to speak to her supervisor who backed her up, but I suppose I expected that. They told me that the 40,000 a month was only valid if you were here with a work permit or retired. I argued all I could but at the end of the day, I can't force them to do anything for me.

Am I the only person that has had this experience? Is there a new rule in effect or is this simply the ineptitude of Immigration Division 1? Does anyone have any advice? Are there other offices in the area that can process a Non-O visa with the income requirement met? Any advice would be very helpful... thanks!

[nzexpat]

A very "odd" story .......................

Best ring 1111 and ask for advise/complain

http://www.tatnews.org/thai-government-launches-1111-hotline-receive-complaints-from-foreigners/

[JeffreyO]

Thanks, I'll definitely complain. I took the immigration officers name down before I left. Even while sitting int he seat still arguing my point she pressed the button for the next person to come up. I wasn't done with her but she called the next person in queue anyways... the un-professionalism was baffling.

[Free4ert]

hi. Closer to Nakhom Pathom say same. 400 000 THB in Bank. But I know one Russian man. Him show proof of income.

[ubonjoe]

That is total rubbish. There is no rule that says you have to be retired to use the income method to get your extension.

This from clause 2.18 of Immigration Bureau Order 138/2557 documents for extension of stay.

"5. Only for Criteria (5) paragraph 1 and (6), the applicant must attach a funds deposit certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook, or attach documents proving that the parents or alien husband earns an average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year, such as any particular individual income tax return together with payment receipt, evidence of receiving retirement pension, evidence of receiving interest from funds deposit, or evidence of having other funds issued by the relevant agency. An affidavit must also be submitted confirming the alien’s marital or parental status with a Thai national."

Relevant agency would be the embassy in your case.

[JeffreyO]

That is total rubbish. There is no rule that says you have to be retired to use the income method to get your extension.

This from clause 2.18 of Immigration Bureau Order 138/2557 documents for extension of stay.

"5. Only for Criteria (5) paragraph 1 and (6), the applicant must attach a funds deposit certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook, or attach documents proving that the parents or alien husband earns an average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year, such as any particular individual income tax return together with payment receipt, evidence of receiving retirement pension, evidence of receiving interest from funds deposit, or evidence of having other funds issued by the relevant agency. An affidavit must also be submitted confirming the alien’s marital or parental status with a Thai national."

Relevant agency would be the embassy in your case.

Well, do you have any advice on how I should proceed? It seems like a massive waste of time to go back to the same immigration division after I made it clear to the supervisor how upset I was with the fact that they have the income in writing as a method of visa approval and she blatantly told me no. Somehow I think she'll remember me .

[lopburi3]

Would you share your age? Believe it might be allowed for those of retirement age but perhaps not for those expected to be of work age without a work permit?

[JeffreyO]

I am 31, my wife is 30.

Even if you are correct, Joe pointed to their own documentation which said that it should be allowed. The document I got from immigration with a list of what's needed says it is allowed.

My thoughts are the first immigration officer was wrong, her supervisor backed her up rather than causing her to lose face in front of the other officers. This is, of course, speculation...

[ubonjoe]

I would go back and take proof of where your income is coming from to show them. That would take away their thinking that you are working here without a work permit.

[Mario2008]

Best is to contact 1111 and exlain the situation and ask if the rules have changed.

They are not shy of contacting the officer and setting them straight if need be.

[JeffreyO]

I had an affidavit of income as well as pay stubs from New York City dating back quite a while. They didn't even look, they didn't think I was working illegally and they never said anything of the sort.

[JeffreyO]

I'm calling 1111 as we speak

[IMA_FARANG]

You should have a income statement from you embassy stating that you have such a monthly income.

Also you should have a bank account in your name (not a joint account) showing monthly deposits to your account.

I know that such an account is not necessarily required by the rules but clearly they believe you of having a source of income inside Thailand (such as working without a work permit).

And it is going to be up to you to prove that you do have such a legal source of income in Thailand.

Good luck.

[JeffreyO]

I brought bank statements as well as pay stubs from my American company and the affidavit of income required by the embassy. It wasn't that they complained i didn't have the proper paperwork, they stated that you can't apply for a Non-O visa due to marriage and use monthly income, that it had to be 400,000 in a thai bank account.

[robblok]

You should have a income statement from you embassy stating that you have such a monthly income.

Also you should have a bank account in your name (not a joint account) showing monthly deposits to your account.

I know that such an account is not necessarily required by the rules but clearly they believe you of having a source of income inside Thailand (such as working without a work permit).

And it is going to be up to you to prove that you do have such a legal source of income in Thailand.

Good luck.

Indeed they can always ask for more as your sworn statement of income. Its quite easy to swear and not have it so sometimes they ask for extra information.

[JeffreyO]

Again, the issue wasn't that I didn't bring sufficient proof, it was that they stated that I would not be able to use monthly income were I not a retiree or on a work permit.

[JeffreyO]

Updated - 1111 said that they had the same form and that my information was correct but that the person who confirms/declines the visa process is immigration and that 1111 would be unable to help me as she had no power in this matter.

[ubonjoe]

I have done 7 extensions of stay based upon marriage using an income affidavit. I am over 50 but was well below the retirement age to get a pension when I started getting them. Never a question or comment about where my income was coming from.

I still think you should go back and try again. But this time attach the proof of where your income is coming from to the application with the affidavit.

The officers that you see at immigration do not give the final approval for extensions based upon marriage they just accept the application. The apporval is done at the division lever of immigration.

[steelepulse]

Just to throw this out there, perhaps they think you are working here without a work permit, yet don't directly accuse you.

Your line about "pay stubs from my American company" sure makes it sound like you're employed for an American company currently, yet working without a work permit.

[lopburi3]

Age 50 however is the legal age for retirement extensions here and many of us do indeed have pensions at that age. But agree this appears to be new or specific. Believe the logic may be how can income be used without a work permit as any work performed while in Thailand would require such a permit. So deny and not asking for further proof avoids any legal issues which is not immigration direct concern.

[JeffreyO]

I would agree about the concern about me working here without a work permit but they didn't even look at the pay stubs, they simply said that an affidavit of income was not allowed.

I will try again Joe, the official form you provided, 138/2557 is a huge help. I will be able to hand them the Thai version. They said that their form wasn't specific about who can use what. However, this document is extremely specific.

[nzexpat]

I brought bank statements as well as pay stubs from my American company and the affidavit of income required by the embassy. It wasn't that they complained i didn't have the proper paperwork, they stated that you can't apply for a Non-O visa due to marriage and use monthly income, that it had to be 400,000 in a thai bank account.

If they were telling you that you could not apply for a "NON O " visa they were absolutely correct .

Applications for visas are made at Thai embassy's /Consulates outside Thailand

[JeffreyO]

I brought bank statements as well as pay stubs from my American company and the affidavit of income required by the embassy. It wasn't that they complained i didn't have the proper paperwork, they stated that you can't apply for a Non-O visa due to marriage and use monthly income, that it had to be 400,000 in a thai bank account.

If they were telling you that you could not apply for a "NON O " visa they were absolutely correct .

Applications for visas are made at Thai embassy's /Consulates outside Thailand

They were correct in telling me that I could not apply to have my tourist visa converted to a Non-O because I had an income affidavit but not a Thai bank account? That's ridiculous, I suppose syntax is everything.

[ubonjoe]

If you were applying for a change of visa status (TM86) to get a non immigrant visa entry that could be part of the problem. If I recall correctly that is a different area than the one that does extensions.

If they say no again it might be better to go out for a single entry non-o visa and then apply for the extension. Your income affidavit is valid for 6 months.

[JB300]

If you have pay stubs, it does suggest you're working (whilst being physically located) in Thailand so might be easiest to stick 400,000 THB (approx $12,000US) in a Thai Bank Account rather than force the issue & have them look too closely at your working position re Visas & Tax.

[JeffreyO]

I have a trip to Japan in July, before that I will attempt again as I have to go to that part of BKK in about a month. After Japan I'll schedule a flight over to a location that processes visa's for foreigners if it's denied again.

But Joe, even if that was the problem, the document you provided from the Immigration Bureau as well as what they handed me explicitly stated that income was permitted, or does that document not apply to the change of visa status?

[JeffreyO]

If you have pay stubs, it does suggest you're working (whilst being physically located) in Thailand so might be easiest to stick 400,000 THB (approx $12,000US) in a Thai Bank Account rather than force the issue & have them look too closely at your working position re Visas & Tax.

The pay stubs are related to money owed to me that is being doled out over a period of time, relating to an old, large bonus I received.

[ubonjoe]

You have to meet the same requirements to do the visa application as for an extension so that clause does apply. But the visa part of immigration can be more pickey in their requirements or perhaps not fully aware of the extension requirements.

[LivinginKata]

2 inflammatory posts have been removed.

[Suradit69]

to apply for the Non-O visa status

Are you talking about a conversion to a non-o visa entry before applying for an extension of stay? Immigrations doesn't issue non-o visas other than as a nominal conversion of entry.