Non-O Visa Failure - Not Accepting Proof of Income (?)

[davemos]

Try getting the pay stubs and income verified by a bank and certified ...worked for me

[bitcoinbob]

same thing happened to me in chiang mai , they will not accept it. you need to give them copies of bank statements and brokerage statements, i just printed my statements online accounts. then they wanted to know how i had access to so much cash, was a pain in the ass every time, even the officers that i got to know after doing it every year said a retirement visa would be easier than a marriage visa .god , buddha does not like ugly and what is practiced in this country is ugly how they treat guest, payback is a bitch time will tell

[JeffreyO]

but again, they didn't look at my bank statements or stubs or anything, they said that there was no valid method of using income to apply for a non-o based on marriage. This is blatantly wrong. If they said i needed more proof, I'd ask for what they want and acquire it, frustrated but I would understand it.

[Mudcrab]

If your getting 200,00 a month...why not wait for a couple of months and show the 400,000...might save a lot of stress

[JeffreyO]

If your getting 200,00 a month...why not wait for a couple of months and show the 400,000...might save a lot of stress

It's one option. I had considered that as well but that means putting the 400,000 into a thai account, once deposited I must wait another two months. The entire process could end up being 3 months or so. Honestly at this point if they say no I'll just make a trip over to Savanakhet. I've never been there anyways and I might as well travel as much as I can while in the region .

I have 60 days after I leave Japan before my next flight (Which will be KL, Malaysia) so I need to do a visa run or get a new visa anyways, I might as well take the opportunity if this doesn't work out.

Edited May 28, 2015 by JeffreyO

[NancyL]

Yes indeed. If you're pulling in 200,000 a month, it would seem to be prudent to have at least 400,000 baht in a Thai bank solely in your name. It's always a good idea to have some funds here in Thailand in a Thai bank if you're going to live here and always a good idea to have some only in your name in case the unthinkable happens to your spouse. That's the course Hubby and I have taken.

We've seen too many couples where the Thai joint bank accounts were frozen upon death of the partner while the estate is settled and too many situations where foreigners have been locked out of their accounts abroad, at least temporarily. We were just locked out of our U.S.-issued Visa-card when they switched everyone to a new card with a super-duper security chip and changed the account numbers, cancelling the old ones. Nice, but we use a U.S. mail forwarding service and get our U.S. mail just once a month via DHL. Embarrassing to have the Visa card declined at the local Rim Ping supermarket without knowing the new one had been sent to the U.S. mail forwarder ONE WEEK ago. Huh --- how were we suppose to get it to Thailand in that short time-frame? Fortunately, we could whip out the Bangkok Bank ATM card to buy the wine and groceries for the week.

Edited May 28, 2015 by NancyL

[Barin]

I would go back and take proof of where your income is coming from to show them. That would take away their thinking that you are working here without a work permit.

There is a new trend now, many Immigration Offices (including the one in Nongkhai) will not accept affidavit from the embassy as a proof of income any more.

Only a letter from the bank in Thailand will be accepted.

Forget the good old days of embassy affidavit!

[hlj]

I used income ( pension retirement ) from the US when I applied for my marriage visa in CM everything was all right with the letter from the American Embassy it does

have to be certified by the embassy.

[Mario2008]

I would go back and take proof of where your income is coming from to show them. That would take away their thinking that you are working here without a work permit.

There is a new trend now, many Immigration Offices (including the one in Nongkhai) will not accept affidavit from the embassy as a proof of income any more.

Only a letter from the bank in Thailand will be accepted.

Forget the good old days of embassy affidavit!

I can not see any proof of this being a new trend.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This is maybe the third of forth post I have read on TV recently that states that the proof of income letter, notarized by the US embassy was not accepted as proof of income.

Since I have been here on a non O (marriage ) visa, the notarized income letter from the US embassy is the only proof of income I have ever had to provide.

I understand that expats from most countries have always been required to show bank records or some other proof as well. But for Americans, the letter from the embassy has always been sufficient in the past..

I am starting to wonder if this is a change in policy / attitude toward US expats ot if these are just isolated incidents.

In this case, the Immigration folks weren't disputing whether the OP had sufficient or accepted proof of monthly income.

They were telling him he could not meet the financial requirements for converting a tourist visa to a non-Imm visa by using the monthly income method period. They only wanted to accept Thai bank deposits.

Nothing to do with him presenting a U.S. Consulate income affidavit.

[mango66]

Thanks, I'll definitely complain. I took the immigration officers name down before I left. Even while sitting int he seat still arguing my point she pressed the button for the next person to come up. I wasn't done with her but she called the next person in queue anyways... the un-professionalism was baffling.

this style I had also from the officer in Embassy in Vienna,

he denied my request for a double tourist visa,

he said you cant get it ,

and immediately called the next customer -

to kick me off of the window,

there was onlky 1 other customer, so time was not the issue !

This is style of thai gvt peoples !!

Any one who know the old good time in thailand shout forget this nice time is gone !

Today Thais piss on a farong like on a dog !!

It's time to move forward from this ugly getting country !!

[CWMcMurray]

In your situation, would likely just head to Laos to apply for a multiple entry O visa..

Then no need to go to immigration ever ...

As you will not be here more than a year... Just until wife's visa to US finished

You would need to leave Thailand every 90 days, But seems from your comments that you will need to travel anyway.. So non issue

[MyFriend You]

I chose the battles that I know I can win - jousting at windmills is fruitless, I agree with JB300 - deposit the 400K in Thai bank then you wll get the Non-O Extension - you said yourself, she will remember you, with the money in the bank she has no recourse but to grant the extension...............

[Traveling Sailor]

This is maybe the third of forth post I have read on TV recently that states that the proof of income letter, notarized by the US embassy was not accepted as proof of income.

Since I have been here on a non O (marriage ) visa, the notarized income letter from the US embassy is the only proof of income I have ever had to provide.

I understand that expats from most countries have always been required to show bank records or some other proof as well. But for Americans, the letter from the embassy has always been sufficient in the past..

I am starting to wonder if this is a change in policy / attitude toward US expats ot if these are just isolated incidents.

Have any other US expats been having this problem?

If so, what office have you had the problem at?

I am due to extend again in early July and have my letter already.......but it sounds like I may be asked for more proof this time???

Willy, I am an American expat, here for 5 years on a retirement extension. I go to Koh Samui Immigration and, as well as the letter from the American Embassy, I have always been required to make signed copies of every page of the Bangkok Bank account that receives my monthly income from America. My guess is that the reason for this is because, just because an amount of income is stated, that is not proof that you are actually bringing the money into Thailand to use here. I hope this helps.

[JeffreyO]

Since I may be going the path of the multi-entry Non-O.... how many 'entries' is this permitted? Is it as many as you want within the period of a year? Or is it 4 90 day entries?

[louse1953]

Best is to contact 1111 and exlain the situation and ask if the rules have changed.

They are not shy of contacting the officer and setting them straight if need be.

This is the way to do things in Asia,keep going over their heads until you get satisfaction or are proved wrong.Make sure you are right though and stay cool.Living in Asia has helped my patience heaps.

[Assurancetourix]

I would go back and take proof of where your income is coming from to show them. That would take away their thinking that you are working here without a work permit.

There is a new trend now, many Immigration Offices (including the one in Nongkhai) will not accept affidavit from the embassy as a proof of income any more.

Only a letter from the bank in Thailand will be accepted.

Forget the good old days of embassy affidavit!

It's normal;

They don't accept if this income doesn't arrive on your individual thai account ;

Do as Immigration ask and you will have never a problem.

They want your income , minimum 40.000 baht a month, arrive on your individual thai bank account .

It's very easy to know if the money arrives or not from a foreign country ;

the code isn't the same at the beginning of the line...on the bank book .

If you have only the proff of income from your embassy but cannot prove that your money ( income, royalties..and so on...) arrive really in Thailand, they will not accept that paper.

That proof of income from your Embassy AND the book bank which proves that the money, the income arrives really in Thailand.

[Mario2008]

Since I may be going the path of the multi-entry Non-O.... how many 'entries' is this permitted? Is it as many as you want within the period of a year? Or is it 4 90 day entries?

Unlimited during the the validity of the visa, which is 1 year.

[ubonjoe]

I would go back and take proof of where your income is coming from to show them. That would take away their thinking that you are working here without a work permit.

There is a new trend now, many Immigration Offices (including the one in Nongkhai) will not accept affidavit from the embassy as a proof of income any more.

Only a letter from the bank in Thailand will be accepted.

Forget the good old days of embassy affidavit!

It's normal;

They don't accept if this income doesn't arrive on your individual thai account ;

Do as Immigration ask and you will have never a problem.

They want your income , minimum 40.000 baht a month, arrive on your individual thai bank account .

It's very easy to know if the money arrives or not from a foreign country ;

the code isn't the same at the beginning of the line...on the bank book .

If you have only the proff of income from your embassy but cannot prove that your money ( income, royalties..and so on...) arrive really in Thailand, they will not accept that paper.

That proof of income from your Embassy AND the book bank which proves that the money, the income arrives really in Thailand.

Barin you statement the affidavit is not accepted is not correct. They will accept it but want back up for it by showing a bank book that show the money coming in.

I would not say it is normal at all offices. I have done 7 extension of stay based upon marriage using an income affidavit and have never been asked for any thing more than it. But if they did ask I already have a bank book showing my money coming in every month.

[JeffreyO]

Since I may be going the path of the multi-entry Non-O.... how many 'entries' is this permitted? Is it as many as you want within the period of a year? Or is it 4 90 day entries?

Unlimited during the the validity of the visa, which is 1 year.

That's really interesting to hear and multitudes better than the alternative based on how often I travel. This definitely looks like a better option, albeit at the expense of an extra trip.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Updated - 1111 said that they had the same form and that my information was correct but that the person who confirms/declines the visa process is immigration and that 1111 would be unable to help me as she had no power in this matter.

I'm a bit confused here as to just what role, if any, the 1111 government hotline reps can play in dealing with (mediating) Immigration problems.

Earlier in this thread, Mario advised the OP to contact them, saying they would be able to contact the Immigration officials and, if appropriate, set them straight about potential misinterpretations of the law.

But now, the OP has done just that, and posted above that the 1111 hotline basically said it's an Immigration matter and they have "no power in this matter."

So which is it? Can 1111 really help with Immigration disputes? And if so, why would the OP have gotten the kind of response he describes above?

[Thaidream]

If all monies go to a bank in the US or UK- and is withdrawn via the ATM- in Thailand-the US or Uk bank account will show the items as having been withdrawn in Thailand and the deposits as retirement. There is no need anymore for a Thai bank account as the online banking print outs prove the income and where the money is withdrawn. Have I missed something here?

[Mario2008]

1111 is the governement information hotline, working together with the immigration hotline (1178). What happens when you call 1111 is that they try to connect you with the appropriete agency (immigration) for specifick information. Immigraiton in their turn will try to answer your question.

What often happens is that the immirgaiton hotline will conntact the immirgaiton office in question and will set them straight if needs be. But that seems to depend on the officer you get, dealing with your question. Some will be reluctant, while especially senior officers will be less shy.

If immigration doesn't follow the rules, you can file a complaint and ultimately go to administrative court.

[Petchou]

I think if your papers are in order and not trying to cheat, government officers will do a proper job and will get what you are for.

I personally have never had any issue. Many farangs are cheating the system, encouraging corruption etc...

Think of how immigration in states is tough with everybody. Thailand has the right to accept or reject who they want period. Same is being done in all western countries. Immigration is not a right, but it is to the discretion of the country where you want to stay. Not happy go somewhere else. There are already too many crooks and criminals from all over polluting this beautiful country.

[JeffreyO]

1111 is the governement information hotline, working together with the immigration hotline (1178). What happens when you call 1111 is that they try to connect you with the appropriete agency (immigration) for specifick information. Immigraiton in their turn will try to answer your question.

What often happens is that the immirgaiton hotline will conntact the immirgaiton office in question and will set them straight if needs be. But that seems to depend on the officer you get, dealing with your question. Some will be reluctant, while especially senior officers will be less shy.

If immigration doesn't follow the rules, you can file a complaint and ultimately go to administrative court.

How does one go about filing a complaint? Even if I don't want to go as far as court, I would like to ensure that the rudeness of the initial officer and the blatant disregard for their own rules is at least investigated so that others have fewer issues down the road.

[Mario2008]

Write a letter to immirgation HQ at suan Plu to the attention of the commander of immigraiton

OR

follow this link: http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=comment

and fill in the form and select "file a complaint" as subject. (Don't know if this option works)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1111 is the governement information hotline, working together with the immigration hotline (1178). What happens when you call 1111 is that they try to connect you with the appropriete agency (immigration) for specifick information. Immigraiton in their turn will try to answer your question.

What often happens is that the immirgaiton hotline will conntact the immirgaiton office in question and will set them straight if needs be. But that seems to depend on the officer you get, dealing with your question. Some will be reluctant, while especially senior officers will be less shy.

If immigration doesn't follow the rules, you can file a complaint and ultimately go to administrative court.

So then, would the better original advice to the OP, or anyone in similar circumstances, to be to call the Immigration hotline at 1178, instead of calling 1111?

Can you file a complaint with Immigration via the 1178 hotline?

[Mario2008]

It doesn't matter if you call 1111 or 1178, it leads to the same. 1111 is simply easier to remember and can be used for more than immigraiton alone.

I don't know if you can file a formal complaint by phone. I would think you have to file it in writing.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I guess the point is, a bit contrary to the sense from the earlier posts:

If you call the 1111 hotline with a complaint/problem about Immigration, they're not likely to deal with the issue themselves, but rather, pass you along to someone at Immigration, perhaps the same folks who man the Immigration 1178 hotline or the section at Immigration that handles the type of issue you're calling about.

If I had an Immigration issue, I wouldn't call 1111 unless I thought that they themselves would help deal with it. I don't need them to simply transfer me somewhere else that I could already call myself. Under that situation, I'd just call the Immigration 1178 hotline myself from the start.

I believe in the past one time, I did call 1111 with a question about whether one of the new Immigration offices in BKK was handling a particular type of application during the period when CW was closed. As I recall, they transferred my phone call or gave me the phone number for the unit involved at the new office.

In the OP's case, he certainly doesn't need anyone at 1111 to refer his phone call to the same unit/supervisor at CW who gave him the questionable advice in the first place.

Edited May 29, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[DLang]

Many people forgo going through the immigration nonsense.

They get a multi-entry Non-O.

when they return they book weekends away in different countries to do their 90 day border run.

Cheap flights and hotels in places like Burma, Malaysia, even Japan and Korea, Vietnam. Get good deals when booking 90/180/140/360 days ahead. Nice breaks, and never even think of a Thai immigration office and their nonsense again.