Service charge 7% when eating out

[toenail]

In the "finer" restaurants or the restaurants in hotels, there is always a tax and service charge added on. (I was told this tax and service charge depends on the volume of customers; yet, I've see some places such as Kiss Restaurant have a heavy volume of customers and they do not have a service charge ) How do we know if the "service charge" gets to the staff? I sometimes find it interesting how the waiter/waitress will stand staring at you when you get your change back as if gleaming to see if there is a tip given. If there is a already a service charge I do not feel like giving anything extra unless there is a special party of 6-12 people. And when I do give a "tip" then I will hand it over to the waiter/waitress that took care of the busy table.

[guzzi850m2]

Yes the service charge is an odd one. I think the expensive res. mostly uses them so when people first look at the prices they think;

hmm not too bad only to get a slight chock when the bill is presented.

If I go to an expensive res and the service/food has been good (tax and service change is added to the bill), I always tip but not much, perhaps app. 50 baht, that is for a +1000 baht bill for wife and I.

If chappy service/food no tip and i don't care about the murder in her eyes look from the service girl.

[Ulysses G.]

I will avoid restaurants that charge VAT and service charge as much as possible, but if I really want to try it, I will. However, I will go there as infrequently as possible and I will not leave an extra tip. I figure they end up losing money on these charges in the long run, but that is just a guess.

[thrilled]

I wouldn't doubt that the owners of the restaurant keep the service charge.I don't believe servers at most restaurants get paid very good.Thats why no matter what the service is I try to leave A decent tip.

[pegman]

The SketchCafe in Jomtien puts 7%service charge on their bill. I asked is this tax or tip, lady said tax. There is a transparent tip box at the cashier.

[balo]

I would never tip in a restaurant if they charge a service fee. After all this is Thailand.

[IMA_FARANG]

Yes, but there is also such a thing as a government tax or even a VAT tax.

Sometimes that is disguised as a "service charge" in the bill but it goes to the local government, and the restaurant owner has no choice but to collect it from the customers.

When I was in Malaysia 3 months ago...... the government had just started collecting such a tax from restaurants and many customer where complaining.

Edited June 1, 2015 by IMA_FARANG

[LindaLovelace]

I try to read over the menu in advance so see if there is any mention of a service charge in English. If there is no notice and they charge one, I simply refuse to pay it. I am pretty careful these days to try to have a good assortment of change on my person so I can pay the bill exactly, smile and walk out. I cannot countenance extortion.

Of course, I always tip if there is no such extortion -- and the service is good. I, too, hand it to the server.

Let me tell yo something about the value added tax. It is NOT a sales tax. It is collected lont the supply and production chain, each time value is added to the product. It is supposed to be built into the price of the product; it is NOT something to be charged in addition to the price. According to Wikipedia:

The value added to a product by or with a business is the sale price charged to its customer, minus the cost of materials and other taxable inputs. A VAT is like a sales tax in that ultimately only the end consumer is taxed. It differs from the sales tax in that, with the latter, the tax is collected and remitted to the government only once, at the point of purchase by the end consumer. With the VAT, collections, remittances to the government, and credits for taxes already paid occur each time a business in the supply chain purchases products.

In Thailand, the VAT is properly built into the price in most cases. Lotus, Makro, HomePro, etc. Receipts often show the amount of the total that is VAT, because in some instances, buyers are entitled to a refund.

Many computer sellers advertise products sans VAT. It is a deceptive sales practice. For a computer retailer (and unlike a sales tax collected at point of sale), most of the VAT has already been assessed and paid before the computer ever comes into the seller's hands. Showing a restaurant menu price, sans VAT, then adding it at the end is also a deceptive sales practice.

If the menu does not clearly state that the prices are sans VAT, I won't pay it. If they don't like it, they can call the Boys in Brown. I frankly don't give a shit. I don't play these games.

Of course, I also do not live in Scattaya, so I rarely run into these scams.

[fosseway]

I believe that in UK for instance, VAT has to be added to any food that has been served in a restaurant, I think the current rate is 15% there. Take away food, such as fish and chips for example does not incur any VAT. Service charge is a separate item, usually 10%

[fredob43]

I believe that in UK for instance, VAT has to be added to any food that has been served in a restaurant, I think the current rate is 15% there. Take away food, such as fish and chips for example does not incur any VAT. Service charge is a separate item, usually 10%

I think you will find that you are somewhat adrift on your VAT prices in the UK.

VAT is now charged at 20% an all food that is hot (Zero on cold food) T/Away or in a restaurant. IE your fish and chips now has 20% VAT included in their price.

Regards Restaurants.

If service charge is added normally 10/15% they will put that on at the end of your bill before they add VAT so you will be paying the 20% VAT on the tip as well.

Good game what, thank Buddha I'm in Thailand.

Edited June 2, 2015 by fredob43

[frankwhite]

I will avoid restaurants that charge VAT and service charge as much as possible, but if I really want to try it, I will. However, I will go there as infrequently as possible and I will not leave an extra tip. I figure they end up losing money on these charges in the long run, but that is just a guess.

So you don't want support a business that pay their taxes and gives their Thai staff a service charge???

#loser

[William Osborne]

I will avoid restaurants that charge VAT and service charge as much as possible, but if I really want to try it, I will. However, I will go there as infrequently as possible and I will not leave an extra tip. I figure they end up losing money on these charges in the long run, but that is just a guess.

So you don't want support a business that pay their taxes and gives their Thai staff a service charge???

#loser

errr... why should you be responsible for paying their taxes and staff salary,

Same here, I avoid restaurants who use this BS, its not as if there is a shortage of them in Pattaya,

its a rip-off, plain and simple, as 99% of people tip anyway......

[LindaLovelace]

I will avoid restaurants that charge VAT and service charge as much as possible, but if I really want to try it, I will. However, I will go there as infrequently as possible and I will not leave an extra tip. I figure they end up losing money on these charges in the long run, but that is just a guess.

So you don't want support a business that pay their taxes and gives their Thai staff a service charge???

#loser

You miss the point. VAT is supposed to be built into the price, not charged separately; that's the nature of the beast. A restaurant is not a groery store. Part of what you pay for in a restaurant's menu price IS the service. Gratuities are just that, voluntary. Once there is a mandatory "service charge," it is not a service charge at all, but a sneaky way to charge more than the offered menu prices. It is a deceptive trade practice.

And if you think most Thai restaurant owners are sharing he "service charges" with their staff, I want some of what you are smoking. I have asked several servers if they get a cut of the "service charge" and have yet to find one who said yes.

[2nice]

I find ti disconcerting they add vat and service charge.

Who knows where the vat goes and if we want to leave a tip, we can.

I don't see it in the lower and some middle establishments and i cant help to think it's kind of a scam..

They figure you have some money, how can they get the most or more.

Cars and motorcycles are similar, you drive, they know you have money and you become an easy target.

Besides the fines fees registrations insurance, the cops know drivers have (some) money.

Edited June 5, 2015 by 2nice

[digbeth]

For shops like supermarkets, the law is that you're supposed to advertise the price inclusive of VATs

but I think hotels, bars and restaurants is exempt from this rule...

normally in the menu there will be small prints whether the price is inclusive of the VAT and the service charge,

even big chains restaurants like Fuji do add the 10% service charge and 7%VAT afterwards,

I alway make a point to not tip whenever they already decides to add the service charge, especially in big national chains that looks like they'd already be paying decent wage, it's not like the US where restaurants don't pay their staff enough, forcing them to depend on the tip.

in posh places like hotels and fine dining restaurants and when drinks is involved, when the service charge exceeds 3-400 baht, that is too much, tip any waiter 2-300 hundred baht and you'd already made their day, maybe they'd collect all the tips and divide them between each other at the end of the shift, but that's not my concern, I'd made the gesture of tipping, and in case of really exceptional service, a few hundred baht more..

I do know that in hotels and restaurants that collect the 10% in the bill the employee will receive their share with their pay packet one or twice a month,(or in some case, not at all) so, to tip in cash is always better for the employee in that they get home with the cash that night.

So for places that serve middle-class Thais that may or maynot tip like Fuji or Sizzlers, maybe having the 10% is better for the employee, but for patrons it reeks of deceptive pricing, hiding away the price to reduce the sticker shock.

And for fine-dining restaurants, the patrons is probably prepared to tip generously anyway, putting the 10% on the bill just seems cheap, but when the restaurant is in a hotel, they do this anyway... in which case what do you do, when the bill is 5-6000 baht or more and you've already paid the 10% which works out to at least 500 baht... I felt like a cheap charlie when I collect all the small change from the tray sometime, but hey, tipping you (the waiter)300 baht would be quite generous already, but your restaurant just fleeced me for 500!

[joepattaya1961]

The service charge of 10% is no extortion, it's a by law arranged/approved facility that MAY be included in the bill from service-providers such as restaurants/hotels/bars.

Problem is that the service-charge of 10% will be included in the bill and therefore become visible in the accounting system of the venue and it's not said that the 10% will reach its destination at the end of the day, but you could discuss the fact if the service-charge replaces the tip.

Maybe someone could explain what the service-charge is exactly for.

[rocketboybkk]

In the "finer" restaurants or the restaurants in hotels, there is always a tax and service charge added on. (I was told this tax and service charge depends on the volume of customers; yet, I've see some places such as Kiss Restaurant have a heavy volume of customers and they do not have a service charge ) How do we know if the "service charge" gets to the staff? I sometimes find it interesting how the waiter/waitress will stand staring at you when you get your change back as if gleaming to see if there is a tip given. If there is a already a service charge I do not feel like giving anything extra unless there is a special party of 6-12 people. And when I do give a "tip" then I will hand it over to the waiter/waitress that took care of the busy table.

If there's a service charge I don't tip so the server might be losing out.

It's up to the customer to tip & usually it'll be 10% +

The places that add it to the bill are asking for no other tips

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[frankwhite]

Thai law requires vat to be separate on bins

[rocketboybkk]

Yeah you see the tax but why the service charge?

That should be down to the customer to decide

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Phil_ne_uk]

Sorry to resurrect this old post but I just wanted to say don't bother tipping at Kiss food & drink restaurants as they add 7% VAT and they are NOT VAT registered. I asked for a VAT receipt and the waiter eventually returned and was told they don't have one. This is just a scam as I initially suspected to get the customer to pay the staffs wages. Now I remember why I returned to the UK!

 

Then again if you do go there, why not ask for a VAT receipt? Maybe then they will realise people are onto them and are not all stupid farangs!
 

[joepattaya1961]

8 hours ago, Phil_ne_uk said:

Sorry to resurrect this old post but I just wanted to say don't bother tipping at Kiss food & drink restaurants as they add 7% VAT and they are NOT VAT registered. I asked for a VAT receipt and the waiter eventually returned and was told they don't have one. This is just a scam as I initially suspected to get the customer to pay the staffs wages. Now I remember why I returned to the UK!

 

Then again if you do go there, why not ask for a VAT receipt? Maybe then they will realise people are onto them and are not all stupid farangs!
 

I'm pretty sure that Kiss is VAT-registered. The simple fact that they can't produce a VAT-receipt is just that you're probably the first one ever that has asked for one. 

 

VAT has nothing to do with paying operational expenses e.g. staff-wages. 

Another inclusion may be the 10% service charge; that can be used by the owner/manager up to his discretion. 

For many customers however, the 10% service-charge is a reason not to pay a tip. 

[digbeth]

Recently in the news a couple of Bangkok lawyers almost took a restaurant to court about the service charge, after much negotiations with consumer protections (yes they exist) the edict is that unless the restaurant has a visible sign somewhere or in the menus stating that they charge 10% service charge or whatever, you can refuse to pay the charge, so now even in big chains restaurants like Fuji, there are now hastily made sign up near the entrance about the 10%

 

Still, In most place with a manager worth their keep, if you get worked up and complain loud enough they'd probably waive the service charge 

[SidJames]

Any time that I've seen a service charge on a bill & asked the staff if they got the service charge the answer was always no, without fail.

It always the more expensive places as well so it's percentage of a bigger bill.

I have come across a place that only charged VAT if you paid by card & wiaved it if you paid in cash

[mcfish]

I usually leave 1 baht tip if it's available. I cringe when I see a tourist leave an extra 100 baht!

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[Oink]

Why should you pay service charge on a Buffet?

Is it that you have to pay extra if you want your food cooked?

[mcfish]

Why should you pay service charge on a Buffet?
Is it that you have to pay extra if you want your food cooked?

It's a rip off because they know uneducated tourists will still leave a tip

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[Jingthing]

47 minutes ago, SidJames said:

Any time that I've seen a service charge on a bill & asked the staff if they got the service charge the answer was always no, without fail.

It always the more expensive places as well so it's percentage of a bigger bill.

I have come across a place that only charged VAT if you paid by card & wiaved it if you paid in cash

Yeah they will usually say no, but perhaps they aren't telling us the full truth. I think it's fairly common for them to get a CUT of the service charge so it's easier for them to say no, and also in their interest to say no, hoping they can guilt you into tipping. Bottom line ... we don't really know unless we have an inside look at their business practices. 

 

My response to service charges is to go Thai style and leave some extra change, generally less than if there wasn't a service charge. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by Jingthing

[TaaSaparot]

Any business with an annual turnover of 1.8 million baht is required to pay VAT.

[lamyai3]

14 hours ago, Oink said:

Why should you pay service charge on a Buffet?

Is it that you have to pay extra if you want your food cooked?

 

You can leave yourself a tip, based on quality of selection and non spillage.

Great username by the way, for a comment on buffets! 

Edited December 14, 2016 by lamyai3
Afterthought

[p_brownstone]

On 12/14/2016 at 8:12 AM, joepattaya1961 said:

I'm pretty sure that Kiss is VAT-registered. The simple fact that they can't produce a VAT-receipt is just that you're probably the first one ever that has asked for one. 

 

VAT has nothing to do with paying operational expenses e.g. staff-wages. 

Another inclusion may be the 10% service charge; that can be used by the owner/manager up to his discretion. 

For many customers however, the 10% service-charge is a reason not to pay a tip. 

 

Obviously I cannot comment specifically on the restaurant the earlier Poster mentions, however many such places, if Registered for V.A.T., show the V.A.T. on the slip of paper generated by their cash register - this is accepted by the Thai Revenue Department as a Tax Invoice (ใบกำกับภาษี) which the restaurant uses in their monthly PP 30 submission to the Revenue Department - and no Company can issue two V.A.T. Invoices for the same transaction. 

 

(There is no such thing as a "V.A.T. Receipt" by the way).

 

That said, in any case you, the Customer, cannot use that V.A.T. Invoice issued by the restaurants cash register because even if your own Company is registered for V.A.T. the Revenue Department will only accept you using that Invoice to deduct from your Companys' monthly PP 30 submission if the restaurant Tax Invoice shows your Company name, your V.A.T. Registration number and other details - which obviously it does not.

 

Patrick