Farangs riding scooters in middle of the road

[Shiver]

Defensive driving/riding would be my answer.

Aside from keeping as much space around you from where you perceive the most likely risks, if you're on a bike there's pot holes, grids and especially tram lining to consider.

[matman]

Whatever vehicle you drive you are entitled to your position in the 'Lane', for a motor car or truck, due to their size their position in the centre of the lane is never questioned, as a motorcyclist you are also entitled to drive in the centre of the lane. However it is how prudently you use this 'entitlement' that defines you as a 'good or bad' driver/rider. I think that driving in towns or cities, your position in a lane as a motorcyclist is not so much of an issue, as in the main there is much weaving in and out of traffic to make progress, particularly in queues of traffic where scooter/motorbike riders are fortunate to be able to 'weave' their way through.

Out on the 'Open Road', it is both traffic and road conditions that determine where I position my motorbike on the road. As I frequently make long journeys on my motorbike (around 450Km), I find that some times due to the condition of the road surface, it is better to drive in the 'far left' in what could loosely be called the 'motorbike' lane, as it makes a smoother ride than trying to negotiate and avoid the damage done to the left hand lane by heavy goods vehicles.

When I do have the opportunity to occupy the left hand lane, as all good drivers should do, I am checking in my mirrors for vehicles approaching from behind, which despite the fact that I am probably cruising at around 100 KPM, does happen, in these circumstances I do move over to the left, but only to give those passing at high speed as much room as possible.

Zeichen Said

The phenomenon of westerners here driving in the middle, most likely they don't actually know how to ride, or have never taken a safety course.

This statement is nonsense, motorcycle instructors (in the UK) always tell their students that they are entitled to their position on the road, and being in the middle of the lane establishes their presence on the road. (They are also told to use this entitlement prudently and not adamantly )

Taotoo said

I think I read recently that the highway code states that all vehicles must stay as far left in their lane as possible.

This is not what the highway code says, it says that all vehicles must keep to the left (lane) except when overtaking or passing slower moving vehicles or obstructions. It says nothing about position within the lane.

There is also a misconception and misinterpretation by Thai Police about motorcycles not being allowed in the outside lanes.

The above section in the highway code lists ALL vehicles saying that they must keep to the left except when overtaking. There is nowhere in the Thai highway code (based on the UK highway code) that excludes motorcycles (or any vehicle) from using the outermost lanes as long as they are overtaking.

Most posters on subjects like this make their comments on how they feel things should be, and not from experience, so before my experience is questioned.

I am 70 years old in November,

I have been riding motorcycles since I was 16 - 54 years experience, and in many countries throughout the world

I have been driving cars since I was 18 - 52 years experience again in many countries

I held a Class 1 heavy goods Vehicle licence up until five years ago when I let my entitlement lapse

I held a Class 1 public Service Vehicle licence (Single and double decker buses and coaches) up to five years ago when I let this entitlement lapse.

I passed my driving tests in all of these categories at the first attempt.

In Pattaya I drive a Honda Click around town and A Honda Silverwing for long trips, I've been driving in Pattaya almost on a daily basis for seven years without accident.

Some might call this luck, I prefer to look at it as using my experience, awareness and anticipation of those around me, and always expecting other drivers to do the unexpected

[DiDiChok]

I don't know about middle of the road, but I do ride in the middle of my lane for the reasons described earlier. People going against the flow, pedestrians, cars backing out and pulling out and so on. Putting it simply, it allows you a wider range of decisions about where to go when the inevitable happens. If it's a dual carriageway, there's usually no problem keeping well to the left and it's a good idea to stay away from the fast moving traffic. Strange that it's usually car drivers who don't like what the yanks call 'lane splitting' and I think that is because so many seem to have forgotten how to overtake

A good game when driving behind someone, is to try to work out in which country they learnt to drive since old habits die hard. A much better game than getting road rage.

[stoli]

Inconsiderate and idiotic describes these drivers.

A prudent driver keeps as far to the left as practical, which doesn't mean you have to drive in the gravel, just leave room for other drivers to pass.

Love to see some of these ignoramuses on a US freeway trying their tactics on an 18 wheeler.

Now just get out of my way

Sometimes you need to think problems through. I used to drive in the left, to be more polite to others, until a Thai guy, not looking, threw his truck door open without looking. Your bike stops, but you keep going. I now hate the left side of the lane. Put your car over there and I will pass you on the right. Let you hit the truck door.

[Mousehound]

1. If you took your test in Australia and sat in the outside track of your lane you should have failed your test. You are required to stay in the left wheel track unless there is a threat from the left eg vehicle at intersection on the left or parked vehicles. Then you would move to the right wheel track. The theory being that a "head on" is much more likely to be fatal.

2. However, on open to built up areas, but not jam packed, for experienced riders there are seven positions on a lane - far left, centre left wheel track, right of left wheel track, centre of lane, right of centre a, centre of right wheel track and far right of right wheel track. The Brits have a really good advanced driving course and I have seen some excellent stuff from the USA that use these numbered positions when teaching advanced techniques. They advocate the : "halve the threat method" where you move from left to right - generally position 2 to position six or centre left wheel track to centre right wheel track, according to the threat. Centre lane is not usually recommended unless the road has no dirt on the centre and you are not following a truck (as you are in the blind spot).

3. In built up muang areas far left and far right are both a problem. Here I am with those that prefer the centre of the lane. Again halving the danger.

4. Be alert, be visible, be confident but not aggressive and drive to stay alive. I have spent weeks visiting a ward in Oz where my nephew was, having had a bad spinal injury from a stupid accident - of his own doing. The ward was filled with bike accident victims. It is a dangerous activity - but, I do love it so.

[Sparkles]

"In Thailand you have to ride in total defensive mode"

How True, or you'll soon be kissing concrete.

john

Motorcyclist.

Yes the art of "staying alive" by defensive driving in a country where driver training and common sense in non existent and not only amongst Thais.

[Asiantravel]

I ride my bicycle in the middle of a lane too.

If you don't a lorry or bus will squeeze you off the road, or drive past frighteningly close.

Not to mention highway offlanes, I'm well in the middle passing them else a car will pull alongside me then attempt to force me over.

Make em change lanes to pass you is safest.

PS

In town I'm cycling at the speed limit, if you overtake me you are breaking the law.

(Not that anyone cares about speed limits)

As a cyclist what would you have said to this guy?These cyclists were riding along Priory Lane in SW London when the driver of the Land Rover decided to over take and unsuccessfully push one of them into the kerb. The driver was fined under a public order offence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDvrkJkCdJg

[uptheos]

Everybody can choose to drive where they wish. I choose to drive wherever I think it safest for my own skin, period. I couldn't care less about anybody's opinion. The road is dynamic, a place of constantly changing circumstances; there is no universal answer to this question. What is the purpose of this thread anyway?

It is a quest to discover the universal answer that you mention.

[outre99]

I ride my bicycle in the middle of a lane too.

If you don't a lorry or bus will squeeze you off the road, or drive past frighteningly close.

Not to mention highway offlanes, I'm well in the middle passing them else a car will pull alongside me then attempt to force me over.

Make em change lanes to pass you is safest.

PS

In town I'm cycling at the speed limit, if you overtake me you are breaking the law.

(Not that anyone cares about speed limits)

I was with you until the PS part. That is the most idiotic logic especially in Thailand. The safest speed is the speed of the traffic around you. If you are going considerably slower than the flow than you are the problem and need to get out of the way regardless of what the speed limit is. Otherwise you deserve all the scorn and abuse other drivers will heap on you.

[Tonto21]

I ride motorbike wherever I am at my safest for that particular part of the road at the time.........Been riding since I could walk, Motocross and Enduro........I love Thai Traffic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sk3uCrZaS8

[2020]

I ride my bicycle in the middle of a lane too.

If you don't a lorry or bus will squeeze you off the road, or drive past frighteningly close.

Not to mention highway offlanes, I'm well in the middle passing them else a car will pull alongside me then attempt to force me over.

Make em change lanes to pass you is safest.

PS

In town I'm cycling at the speed limit, if you overtake me you are breaking the law.

(Not that anyone cares about speed limits)

I was with you until the PS part. That is the most idiotic logic especially in Thailand. The safest speed is the speed of the traffic around you. If you are going considerably slower than the flow than you are the problem and need to get out of the way regardless of what the speed limit is. Otherwise you deserve all the scorn and abuse other drivers will heap on you.

Logic? I've finally seen enough to impart my logic upon TV readers here now.

Anyone, and I mean anyone who is going slower than me is an obviously stupid idiot. And further, anyone who is travelling faster than me is obviously an foolish and stupid idiot as well. Only people doing the same speed as me are worthwhile individuals, and whom of course I rate highly and share the road with respectfully.

Works for me!

[naboo]

I think it depends on the speed you are doing. A road I use regularly on the bike and in the car I am generally at 90kph on the bike and 80kph in the car. Most cars travel around 80kph as well.

On the bike I drive centre of the lane and pass cars to the right. However, there are many bikes travelling at 50-60kph and these become a hazard for car drivers if they are travelling anywhere but far left.

To say far left, left of centre, centre, right of centre, wrong side of road, depends on a number of conditions and every road is differt.

[nemrut]

Besides, even if I'm on the far left hand side of the left hand lane, there still isn't room for a car or truck to fit in the lane with me. I ride a PCX 150. Not a 'big bike' but certainly not small enough to fit in a lane with another car right next to me unless it's a Mini Cooper or something. I still need that space between the car in front of me and the car behind me. Moving over a foot and a half to the left won't change that.

Staying on the far left when it's safe to do so, is not only common sense but allows vehicles with much greater mass to safely pass you. Most Thais stay on the left-unless passing, because it enables both scooters and cars to move at a constant flow without massive bottlenecks.

If everyone on 2 wheels did as you and felt entitled to as much space as a car, you could be sure the traffic would be much worse.

[bazza40]

I ride my bicycle in the middle of a lane too.

If you don't a lorry or bus will squeeze you off the road, or drive past frighteningly close.

Not to mention highway offlanes, I'm well in the middle passing them else a car will pull alongside me then attempt to force me over.

Make em change lanes to pass you is safest.

PS

In town I'm cycling at the speed limit, if you overtake me you are breaking the law.

(Not that anyone cares about speed limits)

You are an accident waiting to happen. So you are cycling at 60 km/hr maximum, and you expect vehicles travelling at 80-100 km/hr to divert around you - especially if it's a drunk or hopped up on yaa baa. It would make far more sense for you to be in the scooter lane.

There are 25,000 road deaths a year in Thailand. I suspect cyclists and scooters who have some weird idea they have the same road rights as a

10 -tonne truck figure in that statistic.

Lots of luck - you're going to need it with that attitude.

[Tiger55]

I find many people are arrogant Thai's and foreigners alike.They feel like they own the road.If your in your 4 wheeler

You can give them A nudge they'll move over,or fall over.

So if you think someone is arrogant, it is ok to knock them over with your 4 wheeler? You're worse than they are.

Edited June 2, 2015 by onthedarkside
rude remark emoved

[Tonto21]

Besides, even if I'm on the far left hand side of the left hand lane, there still isn't room for a car or truck to fit in the lane with me. I ride a PCX 150. Not a 'big bike' but certainly not small enough to fit in a lane with another car right next to me unless it's a Mini Cooper or something. I still need that space between the car in front of me and the car behind me. Moving over a foot and a half to the left won't change that.

Staying on the far left when it's safe to do so, is not only common sense but allows vehicles with much greater mass to safely pass you.

If everyone on 2 wheels did as you and felt entitled to as much space as a car, you could be sure the traffic would be much worse.

Get a grip of your driving, what you are saying is you can't cope with other road users.........so make them drive in the ditch.......

You say........ "Most Thais stay on the left-unless passing, because it enables both scooters and cars to move at a constant flow without massive bottlenecks"...... RIGHT, as we know this is on the forefront of every Thai bike rider..... Admit it......you don't like bikes....They scare you...... your not looking for them.....

Anyway.....Bikes creating "BOTTLENECKS"...... Do you drive in Thailand, or just make stupid comments about it?

[Tingtau]

Personally, I ride my 125cc wherever on the road it seems most safe and judicious to do so. I will, if traffic permits, ride my bike in the leftmost lane which is supposed to be reserved for motorbike traffic...except that it is often occupied by some thoughtless motorist who has decided to pull over while he pops into a local store or whatever....leaving half of his vehicle in the leftl car lane and completely blocking the "motorbike" lane. If I am travelling at or greater than the speed of the regular traffic, I will drive in either of the two motor vehicle lanes, the right lane while passing slow moving traffic and the left motor vehicle lane otherwise. When driving in either of these lanes, I take care to NOT be impeding other motorists. But it seems that there are always those who will take exception to seeing a lowly motor bike in THEIR motor vehicle lane even though it is travelliing as fast as the traffic permists. "Hey, you, who seemingly feel that the roadway belongs to you and that we on motorbikes should "Get out of my Way"....take a relax pill....the fact that I am 2 car lengths behind the fastest vehicle currently in your lane, does not mean that I should "Get out of my Way"....I'm not in you way, so chill!!! What I do, basically, is drive in a manner to be the least disruptive to other motorists, bikers and bicyclists who are sharing the road with me! And you, Mr. Arrogance, who claims that, if you see a biker not in the "proper left most lane" one should just come up alonside and give em a nudge! You sir, should be eligible for the "most arrogant driver" award and would probably get it except for the fact that you may do that to the wrong person one day and become an obituary notice that reads "With his car he insisted, with a gun they desisted! And now he's delisted"

But you know, my real peeve is the potholes (1-2 feet wide and about a mile deep-or so it seems on my bike.....these buggers have cost me approximately 3 shocks over the years!!

[Lee4Life]

As the posts above state, you are allowed as much of the lane as anyone else as long as you are keeping up.

Maybe they're starting to follow the example of the Chinese?

Is that actually Thai Law? Or just opinion based on laws back home? I have heard that if a person gets in an accident on a scooter here and is out of the motorbike lane and in the "car lanes" they will be found at fault. The shoulder is considered to be the motorbike lane.

Maybe someone has the real dope on Thai Law regarding this?

Where exactly is this "motorbike lane" you speak of? Never seen one.

What are you looking for? A Big sign in English saying "motorbike lane"? Or a big motorbike symbol painted on the shoulder of the roadway? There is the possibility that you have never been out of the inner big city I guess.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Lee4Life

[Lee4Life]

Everybody can choose to drive where they wish. I choose to drive wherever I think it safest for my own skin, period. I couldn't care less about anybody's opinion. The road is dynamic, a place of constantly changing circumstances; there is no universal answer to this question. What is the purpose of this thread anyway?

I tried to explain that I could drive wherever I wished to the Thai Police Officer...and it didn't work out so well. He also didn't believe me when I told him there was no universal law regarding this. He said every country has laws regarding lane use. In the end he won and I was 200 baht to the poorer.

[Bellacissa]

Besides, even if I'm on the far left hand side of the left hand lane, there still isn't room for a car or truck to fit in the lane with me. I ride a PCX 150. Not a 'big bike' but certainly not small enough to fit in a lane with another car right next to me unless it's a Mini Cooper or something. I still need that space between the car in front of me and the car behind me. Moving over a foot and a half to the left won't change that.

Staying on the far left when it's safe to do so, is not only common sense but allows vehicles with much greater mass to safely pass you. Most Thais stay on the left-unless passing, because it enables both scooters and cars to move at a constant flow without massive bottlenecks.

If everyone on 2 wheels did as you and felt entitled to as much space as a car, you could be sure the traffic would be much worse.

You realize that I'm talking about being in the center of the left lane, correct? I'm in the left lane, but not on the far left side (right up against the curb) of the left lane. There is no reason for a car to attempt to be in the left lane WITH me. They won't fit even if I'm as far over to the left as humanly possible. There just isn't enough space for the both of us in that one lane. They can pass in the next lane over, no problem. My being in the center of the left lane does not impede that.

[nemrut]

Besides, even if I'm on the far left hand side of the left hand lane, there still isn't room for a car or truck to fit in the lane with me. I ride a PCX 150. Not a 'big bike' but certainly not small enough to fit in a lane with another car right next to me unless it's a Mini Cooper or something. I still need that space between the car in front of me and the car behind me. Moving over a foot and a half to the left won't change that.

Staying on the far left when it's safe to do so, is not only common sense but allows vehicles with much greater mass to safely pass you. Most Thais stay on the left-unless passing, because it enables both scooters and cars to move at a constant flow without massive bottlenecks.

If everyone on 2 wheels did as you and felt entitled to as much space as a car, you could be sure the traffic would be much worse.

You realize that I'm talking about being in the center of the left lane, correct? I'm in the left lane, but not on the far left side (right up against the curb) of the left lane. There is no reason for a car to attempt to be in the left lane WITH me. They won't fit even if I'm as far over to the left as humanly possible. There just isn't enough space for the both of us in that one lane. They can pass in the next lane over, no problem. My being in the center of the left lane does not impede that.

I will also drive in the center of the left lane if it's safer due to parked cars, drain gratings, etc, otherwise mostly stay on the left like most other Thais which allows cars to more easily pass around me.

Even when going with the flow of traffic, there will always be someone in a hurry and driving faster looking to get past for whatever reason. Otherwise, just go with the flow as it largely works in Thailand despite any mishaps.

[mick01827]

Could be a bit of a debate about this. Basically, if you're keeping up with what passes for a flow of traffic here, you should be allowed as much of the lane as anyone else (car, bicycle, motorcy), but if you're going significantly slower than the flow, you should keep left/out of the way. It's speed rather than just position that's key.

Position is very important actually, when your trained in England to ride a motorbike, they tell you to ride off centre to the left because the middle of the road is where most of the oil, grease etc comes from cars over periods of time making dangerous to ride directly in the middle of the road. I think you'll find the majority of people who are riding in the middle of the road are untrained.

It used to be taught this way in the states as well, but visibility wise, staying to the center (not necessarily DEAD center, but close) and further back is now considered preferable to riding on either side of the lane. This way, people can see you in all three mirrors instead of just the one side that you're riding on.

Yes, there is sometimes an oil slick in the center of the lane, especially after a light rain. However, if you stay just to the left of that line, you are in a better position to make a quick escape than if you're staying far left.

Didn't I say off centre to the left?!!

[hawker9000]

When I got my first motorcycle license we had to take a safety course and we were instructed to never drive in absolute center but either to the left or to the right so the car in front can see you in their mirrors.

As others have said, I tend to drive slightly to the left but be careful as cars often pull out. I am often pushed off to the shoulder from cars that just want to get 2 meters ahead. I don't get the sense of entitlement that car drivers have here. I was quite used to driving in the US where cars to mess with bikers. I just let the aggressive drivers pass me and let them drive on. I try to read the road 4-5 cars ahead and behind.

15 years here 250k km on the road and never any real accident. I am lucky for certain but also just overly cautious.

As for the phenomenon of westerns here driving in the middle. Who knows, most likely they don't actually know how to ride or have never taken a safety course. Thailand it is common for car drivers to drive the 4 wheels like they would 2 wheels since most people start with a motorcycle before a car here. Perhaps the Foreigners are used to driving cars and use the same manner.

'Would really like to see Thailand clamp down a little on vacationer/tourist motorbike renting, at least in the cities. So many are SO over their heads! Whatever you think of thai driving habits, it's their country. But the part of the problem represented by relatively inexperienced visiting short-timers is something that could be addressed.

[ChristianBlessing]

Inconsiderate and idiotic describes these drivers.

A prudent driver keeps as far to the left as practical, which doesn't mean you have to drive in the gravel, just leave room for other drivers to pass.

Love to see some of these ignoramuses on a US freeway trying their tactics on an 18 wheeler.

Now just get out of my way

As a former 18 wheeler driver and a current biker, riding a motorcycle well into the appropriate lane, at speed, is the safest, must prudent place to be. Riding in the left third of your lane means you're not visible to the driver ahead of you and cannot see far enough of the road ahead. It further means you're riding where there is most likely to be debris, and you're offering the vehicle behind you to invade what the Motorcycle Safety Foundation calls your own "safety cushion". When I'm at the wheel of my Peterbilt I want to know exactly where you are. And believe me, when you're on your bike, you really do want me to know where you are.

[ehw200]

after driving a car here for only six months I have come to some conclusions

motorcycle riders break every traffic law ever known to man,,,some seem to have a death wish

the car drivers are not much better

the lines on the road indicating lanes just seem to be a general guide,,,if you stick to your lane between the lines an accident is sure to occur

as for the fellow who made a coment about revenge as he weaves in and out of traffic to get to the front of the line at a light,,,I will bet he would not [ull this crap in his home country

large fine in my home counntry,,,same as riding down the line between moving vehicles

the other day I was stationary,,,waiting to make a right turn,,bhat type bus coming the other way

some idiot riding the center line decided to pass between us when he ran out of room

all I heard was the squealing of his brakes,,,I was waiting for the next sound of the side of my new car being sideswiped and the idiot badly injured or worse

luckily he somehow got out of it unscathed

I am thinking of selling the car but then I will have to put my life in danger riding the mini buses down the hiway

[FolkGuitar]

It was always my impression that two-wheeled motorized vehicles were 'motor vehicles,' and as such, are entitled to drive on the street. They are NOT required to give ground to four-wheeled vehicles, nor are they required to share lane space with them. They have just as much legal right to use the full width of a driving lane as they see fit, regardless of the wishes of the car driver behind them.

That said, most intelligent two-wheeled vehicle drivers WILL give ground to an idiot car driver intent on crawling into his exhaust pipe in order to get 1.5 meters further along the road. Scooter riders know that at the next traffic light they will be able to split lanes and advance 10-15 car lengths leaving that fool waaay back in the line of traffic, and doing so they laugh and laugh and laugh!

Just what is the logic of a car driver dangerously forcing a motor scooter over to the side just to move ahead ONE CAR LENGTH? This makes absolutely no sense to me... Car drivers... You are NOT going to get where you're going any sooner by endangering a scooter rider.

Edited June 4, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[hml367]

I found this interesting:

LandTraffAct.pdf

[hml367]

This is what could happen if you DEMAND your "rights and privelages", whether you have them or not. Many people, even those that do know what consequences can happen in Thailand, seem to forget what the consequences can be.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/830335-car-really-commits-to-ramming-motorbike-in-pattaya/?utm_source=newsletter-20150604-1433&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

The two-wheeled motor vehicle driver could have been 100% correct in his driving.

[hml367]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/834469-driving-in-the-right-hand-lane/

[2020]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/834469-driving-in-the-right-hand-lane/

Well that didn't take long, finally some facts in place of opinions at last. Of course the Land Traffic Act was posted there as well but I found them quite a bore to read so I didn't bother, preferring instead to rely on the advice given by one and all on this forum.

Three cheers to the obviously retired lawyer hml367!