French businessman electrocuted in Pattaya

[Deke]

I'm glad Crossy is the moderator of this forum and not me. His patience is impressive.

[cookee68]

RIP.

Water and domestic electrics worldwide isnt a very god mix but water and Thai electrical installation standards = accident waiting to happen.

I am not Thai bashing, it is a sad truth that Thai Electrical Installation Standards are not very high.

so you are blaming the Thais for this rather than blaming someone who was likely meddling with something he was not qualified to do, maybe a phone call to an electrician might have been the correct course of action - and I am electrically qualified and know the dangers

RIP

And have you ever had the chance to check many Thai houses, most of them don't even have an earth, and in your truthful opinion would you wire up an house the same as a Thai. and not to mention most do not even have a breaker point or trip switch, but all said and done, if you don't know what you are doing, then call someone in who knows a little bit more.

[bruceybonus]

I woke up a few weeks ago to the sound of my water pump whirring. I went outside and water was pouring out of it. I turned off all the electric in the house, put some rubber flip flops on & some rubber gloves on. I still felt a fair bit of trepidation as I pulled the plug out of the socket!!

You just as smart as the french that died,,, I am a dutch electrician by trade,,, ALWAYS TURN OF THE MAINS POWER,,,if not you will die,,,only a matter of time,,,

That's what I did, turned of the mains power.

[heybuz]

Thai electwistitee no need Earth.

Built my present house 7 years ago. The builders said the same. I insisted on 3 pin outlets and earth going to light fittings.. They laughed, scratched their heads.

I ended up going to the firms head office to sort it. As I was at the build most days I inspected for 3 wires going to the wall sockets. On completion I tested for 230volts at live to neutral and live to earth, all OK, but I ain't got a clue where they put the earth rod . When I wired the kitchen extension I installed a rod to be sure a good earth..

PS. The wash machine now has a wire from it's chassis to the water pump earth rod.

i believe the earth is attached to the reo bar that sticks out of the concrete columns,which is welded to the steel roof trusses. Edited June 6, 2015 by Rimmer

[jacko45k]

I woke up a few weeks ago to the sound of my water pump whirring. I went outside and water was pouring out of it. I turned off all the electric in the house, put some rubber flip flops on & some rubber gloves on. I still felt a fair bit of trepidation as I pulled the plug out of the socket!!

I have a switch at mine, but of course it is only a single pole one.

I did check before wiring it that the switch was in the live line, although who knows where the return is relative to earth.!

This is sad, a young and pregnant and foreign wife widowed.

[Linzz]

RIP.

Water and domestic electrics worldwide isnt a very god mix but water and Thai electrical installation standards = accident waiting to happen.

I am not Thai bashing, it is a sad truth that Thai Electrical Installation Standards are not very high.

so you are blaming the Thais for this rather than blaming someone who was likely meddling with something he was not qualified to do, maybe a phone call to an electrician might have been the correct course of action - and I am electrically qualified and know the dangers

RIP

Who knows what happend?, I too am certified and qualified in electrical engineering and I stick by my statement that electrical installation standards here are severely lacking. This isn't the place to start an argument, it was a sad occurrence and RIP to the gentleman.

It is typical for Thai "electricians" to cut off earth wires because houses generally are not earthed. That is not Thai bashing, it's a fact. My Thai wife says Thai electricity is different in Thailand! I think some of the technicians think that too! Nevertheless everyone should know to turn off power at the source before doing repairs. Poor sod RIP

[fareastguy]

I woke up a few weeks ago to the sound of my water pump whirring. I went outside and water was pouring out of it. I turned off all the electric in the house, put some rubber flip flops on & some rubber gloves on. I still felt a fair bit of trepidation as I pulled the plug out of the socket!!

I had a similar thing happen a couple of years ago... woke up to hear water running from somewhere, my water pump in the kitchen was like an ornamental fountain. I did the same thing, knocked off the power at the mains, checked all appliances just to make sure, put on wellington boots & rubber gloves, even stood on a stool to keep out of the flood water.

I too felt the trepidation as I let my wife pull out the plug !!

Note to amateur electricians... Thailand is not the place to experiment with faulty electrics.

I fear many "grave markers" bear the same words "It was still live"

[duckmandon]

Very sad to hear. Maybe if they taught basic first aid to people then he may have had CPR which could have saved his life. I am a qualified electrician from Australia & it is law there for us to be qualified in CPR & to have refresher courses every 6 months. All Police & a lot of public servants are also qualified. Also most public buildings have Defibulators which also can help. Here I have seen footage of Police & ambulance staff attempting to do CPR. They don't know how!

[Soutpeel]

009.JPG

Amazing Thailand

Yes quite, show would it shock you if I told you at least 98% of those cables in that picture are not even power cables and further the coiled cable in his hand may even be a fibre optic cable

So with the above in mind what was the point you are trying to make ? Sure you are not trying to suggest the birds nest of cables are in fact power cables, thereby misrepresenting things and creating a false impression ?

[Soutpeel]

Very sad to hear. Maybe if they taught basic first aid to people then he may have had CPR which could have saved his life. I am a qualified electrician from Australia & it is law there for us to be qualified in CPR & to have refresher courses every 6 months. All Police & a lot of public servants are also qualified. Also most public buildings have Defibulators which also can help. Here I have seen footage of Police & ambulance staff attempting to do CPR. They don't know how!

Or maybe if people didn't mess with things they don't know about there would be no need for CPR training

So your an electrician who has have done a CPR course and now your an an expert on CPR and on the basis of a video your commenting on ambulance staff ?

Your comments might have had more credence if you restricted your comments to the electrical side of things

[Farang99]

I woke up a few weeks ago to the sound of my water pump whirring. I went outside and water was pouring out of it. I turned off all the electric in the house, put some rubber flip flops on & some rubber gloves on. I still felt a fair bit of trepidation as I pulled the plug out of the socket!!

Whenever we have one of our frequent power cuts I have to turn off the switch for the water pump before the power returns. If I do not do this, the power surge on return starts the pump motor running flat out, but without driving the water. I then have to turn everything off, wait for the pump motor to cool down and reset it.

[Chaichara]

Yup ^^^.

And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him

Is there a difference with the voltage here? Many years ago, I was in my father's pool when the pump went off. I opened the box to switch it back on and accidentally hit a live wire as it was late at night. The current grabbed me, but luckily when I fell back, it let me go. Would a GFCI have helped with that??? Or is 120V less "dangerous". Just curious....

Again, RIP to this man and my heart goes out to his wife. How horrible.

A GFCI (American for RCD) would likely have tripped and reduced the severity of the shock you received, you would still have felt it mind.

120v is perceived as less dangerous, in reality once it gets past the skin resistance even a 12V car battery can kill.

Also called an ELB and RCCB among other many acronyms, and generically here by the major Thai brand name Safe-T-Cut, I'm really amazed that this farang house was not built to proper Western standards. It appears the owner was French - The French company Legrand was one of the pioneers of RCCBs that would fit on DIN rail in a standard consumer unit. I used them when I completely rewired my 400-year-old land house in France in 1994. It's not as if the things are unknown in Europe and they are now law in most countries.

[Tassie Norm]

Irrelevant 'impulsive' response knucklehead - my heart goes out to his pregnant wife

[farangUSA]

009.JPG

Amazing Thailand

Yes quite, show would it shock you if I told you at least 98% of those cables in that picture are not even power cables and further the coiled cable in his hand may even be a fibre optic cable

So with the above in mind what was the point you are trying to make ? Sure you are not trying to suggest the birds nest of cables are in fact power cables, thereby misrepresenting things and creating a false impression ?

No it would not shock me. Good observation Soutpeel . I let the picture speak for itself.

[impulse]

Its the amps that kill you not the volts, if it was voltage, tasers would be killing everyone

You are dead wrong. It is the voltage that drives the current, measured in amperes. 220 V. is twice the voltage of 110 V. and more likely to drive a larger current through you to ground. 550 V. can kill you even if there is no load (and so no amperage) on the line. Just touch a live 550 v. buss and. if you are gorunded, it grabs you, forces all your muscles to spasm, so you can't breathe, until you die and relax and let go.

It takes 6000 volts to drive a 2mm static spark across an air gap. If it were the voltage that killed, the guy in this picture wouldn't have survived. Fortunately, static discharges like this are very low amperage events, in spite of being very high voltage.

http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/static_sparks.htm#.VXJUuM-qjRY

When you talk about a no load, no amperage event, you're neglecting the fact that the resistance across a human body is 20,000-40,000 ohms. Any time a voltage source is connected across the body, there is amperage flowing through the body, controlled by ohm's law. 550 volts/ 20,000 ohms means that 27.5 milliamps. You'll notice that this chart lists the effects of amperage, not voltage.

https://www.google.com/patents/WO2014019061A1?cl=en

Edited June 6, 2015 by impulse

[Rimmer]

I'm glad Crossy is the moderator of this forum and not me. His patience is impressive.

He is the moderator on the DIY forum not on Pattaya News Clippings but everyone helps where they can

[sandyf]

An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad.

I doubt it, a ground (under your feet) shock is usually not a killer - holding the pipes while touching a live connection is and is usually across the chest stopping the heart

This is what many do not seem to understand. I have had more shocks than care to remember, it is an unfortunate fact of life that familiarity breeds contempt which leads to risk.

I even had a 450v DC belt which fortunately just went through my hand, left a quarter inch deep hole on my finger at the point of contact.

It might have been ok many years ago...now we assess the hazard and assess the risk and determine the control measures to reduce the likelihood of an adverse event actually happening.

A quarter inch hole in the finger is not an acceptable outcome.

It was never voluntary, I can assure you. had it been my other hand that touched the chassis it would have been lights out. Unfortunately when servicing equipment live working may be unavoidable and there is no such thing as perfect control measures without individual responsibility.

In those days much of our equipment used thermionic valves which required an HT supply, at least that is one danger that modern technology has removed.

[impulse]

I'm glad Crossy is the moderator of this forum and not me. His patience is impressive.

He is the moderator on the DIY forum not on Pattaya News Clippings but everyone helps where they can

I suspect Crossy's advice has saved quite a few lives here.

[Barin]

An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad.

A note to self and others:

• Install water pump outdoors in a dry place under the roof
• Have RCBO safety cut system in your house
• Always wear slippers (preferably rubber) when you want to do any electric work
• Make sure your feet and slippers are dry
• Don't forget to cut the electric power before you start any electric work

Edited June 6, 2015 by Barin

[mikemac]

RIP.

Water and domestic electrics worldwide isnt a very god mix but water and Thai electrical installation standards = accident waiting to happen.

I am not Thai bashing, it is a sad truth that Thai Electrical Installation Standards are not very high.

so you are blaming the Thais for this rather than blaming someone who was likely meddling with something he was not qualified to do, maybe a phone call to an electrician might have been the correct course of action - and I am electrically qualified and know the dangers

RIP

Recently I changed the wall isolating switches for the A/C and showers for safety ones, detect no earth etc. On turning the main switch box (RCD's) off I found by pure luck that the showers and A/C did NOT run through the switch box. I changed them live.

My point is, thats how good Thai electricians were in my case, dangerous and useless.

Condolences to the man who lost his life, and his family and friends.

Nobody likes hearing about stories like these, it could quite easily happen to anyone.

Your comment made me think, transam, a competent Western electrician could make a good living in Thailand just making houses safer electrically.

I have a wife and baby son and I would pay good money to make my house safer. Any "sparkies" in Chiang Mai looking for some work ?

If so pm me, I would be interested in talking to you.

Edited June 6, 2015 by mikemac

[Soutpeel]

An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad.

A note to self and others:

• Install water pump outdoors in a dry place under the roof
• Have RCBO safety cut system in your house
• Always wear slippers (preferably rubber) when you want to do any electric work
• Make sure your feet and slippers are dry
• Don't forget to cut the electric power before you start any electric work

Or how about this one ?

If you don't know what your doing leave it alone ?.....know this is a hard one for Thailand's farang know it all's

[Soutpeel]

RIP.

Water and domestic electrics worldwide isnt a very god mix but water and Thai electrical installation standards = accident waiting to happen.

I am not Thai bashing, it is a sad truth that Thai Electrical Installation Standards are not very high.

so you are blaming the Thais for this rather than blaming someone who was likely meddling with something he was not qualified to do, maybe a phone call to an electrician might have been the correct course of action - and I am electrically qualified and know the dangers

RIP

Recently I changed the wall isolating switches for the A/C and showers for safety ones, detect no earth etc. On turning the main switch box (RCD's) off I found by pure luck that the showers and A/C did NOT run through the switch box. I changed them live.

My point is, thats how good Thai electricians were in my case, dangerous and useless.

Condolences to the man who lost his life, and his family and friends.

Nobody likes hearing about stories like these, it could quite easily happen to anyone.

Your comment made me think, transam, a competent Western electrician could make a good living in Thailand just making houses safer electrically.

I have a wife and baby son and I would pay good money to make my house safer. Any "sparkies" in Chiang Mai looking for some work ?

If so pm me, I would be interested in talking to you.

There are some excellent Thai electricians kicking about contrary to what TV finest "experts" will have you believe, but they will not work for THB 300/day the farangs want to pay them

[NanLaew]

Yup ^^^.

And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him

Is there a difference with the voltage here? Many years ago, I was in my father's pool when the pump went off. I opened the box to switch it back on and accidentally hit a live wire as it was late at night. The current grabbed me, but luckily when I fell back, it let me go. Would a GFCI have helped with that??? Or is 120V less "dangerous". Just curious....

Again, RIP to this man and my heart goes out to his wife. How horrible.

120v is more dangerous because it doesn't have enough voltage to cause your muscles to react from the voltage. It just continually shocks you until you can pull away from it.

I'm sure many on here will disagree with this as it is counter intuitive, but the person who knows more about electricity and wiring than anyone I have ever met informed me of this.

Now obviously if you are talking about much higher voltage than this rule does not apply.

None of what the person told you applies. There's absolutely no difference between a 120 V belt and a 240 V one... beleive me, I have had them. RF ones are bad in that they tend to punch holes in you, but if I am on damp ground or somehow providing a better earth return path, it is the current flow that decides whether you live or die, not the voltage. Think of a fire hose, the hose is the wire, water is the electricity and water pressure is the current. Can you sand up against a garden hose? Probably yes. Now try the same against a firemans nozzle.

As my mentor advised me, "The difference between a good electrician and the bad one? None, because neither remember their last electric shock.".

[onemorechang]

An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad.

A note to self and others:

• Install water pump outdoors in a dry place under the roof
• Have RCBO safety cut system in your house
• Always wear slippers (preferably rubber) when you want to do any electric work
• Make sure your feet and slippers are dry
• Don't forget to cut the electric power before you start any electric work

All good advice,

But Test before touch,

Dont trust the switch you can see or wiring you can see.

[NanLaew]

If you are in any way unqualified or not knowledgeable in matters electrical; if changing a light bulb requires checking your Last Will & Testament for validity or doing a full-blown Risk Assessment, when any domestic electrical device begins to malfunction or fails, you must:-

1 ) Isolate the electrical power supply (unplug or turn off).

2 ) Call for a qualified repairman.

3 ) Don't watch what he does but even if you do

4 ) Don't post your advice here (like admitting to changing the power socket for the water pump with the power on).

Edited June 6, 2015 by NanLaew

[onemorechang]

If you are in any way unqualified or not knowledgeable in matters electrical; if changing a light bulb requires checking your Last Will & Testament for validity or doing a full-blown Risk Assessment, when any domestic electrical device begins to malfunction or fails, you must:-

1 ) Isolate the electrical power supply (unplug or turn off).

2 ) Call for a qualified repairman.

3 ) Don't watch what he does but even if you do

4 ) Don't post your advice here (like admitting to changing the power socket for the water pump with the power on).

No 3, is just silly.

You learn many things in life by observation.

Ever watched a training vidio ?

[RabC]

As my mentor advised me, "The difference between a good electrician and the bad one? None, because neither remember their last electric shock.".

I don't know, as Apprentices we used to collect shocks like medals, a "rite of passage" so to speak Once "it" had bitten you, you became a lot more respectful of "it"

My comment is tongue in cheek and normal caveat applies "Viewers Should Not Try This At Home"

[sandyf]

Are you trying to say this was not a Thai-built building? Are you seriously suggesting that a Thai electrician would have been able to fix the problem?

If you are indeed electrically trained, you will certainly have looked in horror at the incompetently installed electrical systems in most Thai buildings.

Well, if he had called pump manufacturer and have them send their technician, he would have much better chance of making it work again.

Not sure where you live but you must only have seen some old buildings. All newer buildings built by reputable companies are fine. My houses are perfectly fine. My apartment and condo buildings are fine, tenants never complained about this. I very frequently visit many new housing/building/hotel projects, they are all just fine. Any truly qualified electrician can get this basic job done right.

Before jump to conclusion and point fingers at Thai as usual, why not point them at this farang. It was his fault that, obviously, he did not switch off the main. He was about to take shower. He attempted to repair at that moment. He was not careful.

I really hate to burst your bubble but go look in the roof/crawl spaces of these wonderfully wired homes/hotels and condos you will see the real truth about the quality of workmanship. In Thailand as ever "Out of sight Out of mind"

I can't say anything 100% for sure with the other buildings but believe me all my houses and buildings are absolutely fine. Not only I hired expensive specialized consultants and third party inspections, I also personally inpsected and photographed every step of constructions for all my buildings and homes.

There is good and bad and an unfortunate tendency to focus on the bad. The good is there if you look for it. The wiring in my loft is better than the norm in the UK.

Edited June 6, 2015 by sandyf

[Soutpeel]

@ SP....How do you or anyone KNOW how good they are as most customers know nothing about electrics regardless of their charges/fees.

Cos I work with a few of them, they are proper thai electricians, but these guys will not be wiring any farangs house up for the money they are typically offering, these boys I am taking about make Thb 150 to 200k month net

the mistake everyone is making is actually believing the people doing electrical work in houses for a pittance are actually sparkies, they are not

[crankshaft]

This guy explains voltage and ampherage very well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDf2nhfxVzg