Will lack of education be the downfall of Thailand?

[Henryford]

I have found the dentists here to be pretty good. Is that an exception?

Yes far better than the dentists in the UK. The dental service here is 100% better.

[Henryford]

Another example of the "do things easy" mentality is buying driving licences rather than actually learning to drive. Some thais seem to think this is a good idea.

[roadrunerboi]

Education is a combination of school (teacher) and home (parents). If the home part leaves it to the school or vice-versa, it is not going to work.

The school portion, IMHO, teaches social interaction besides the basic learning curriculum and it is the home part that needs to complement the learning. The home part also encompasses the outside enrichment supplementary learning parts of the equation.

The issue here is not merely saying that the education system needs an overhaul but rather what is being done to it. The reason I say that is because there is a time lag between implementation and reaching the standards of Singapore and Vietnam. The earlier Thailand begins on this path, the faster future Thai generations will achieve regional, if not, international standards.

IMHO of cos.

[curtklay]

Khunpa: Everything you have said is very accurate, insightful, and well stated.

The bottom line is Thais don't take life seriously. Their major concern is what's for lunch.

[Jeff Bangkok]

Having spent 15 years here and watching this downward spiral, I agree with the OP 100%.

[Emster23]

lack of education won't be the downfall of Thailand: they are taking a "multi-pronged" approach to that challenge. Bad government, corruption, cronyism, etc all pitching in and doing their part to make march to bottom unstoppable!

[oneday]

"...Will lack of education be the downfall of Thailand?..."

It already is...just take a look at the current leaders and what they say in press conferences.

Edited June 10, 2015 by oneday

[buhi]

Khunpa: Everything you have said is very accurate, insightful, and well stated.

The bottom line is Thais don't take life seriously. Their major concern is what's for lunch.

Not entirely true.

Extra tuition is a big money spinner for those that can afford it, most cannot.

Education in state schools in Thailand is dire.

I do know, have worked for years trying, to no avail, to teach Thai teachers.

Thai teachers were taught by Thai teachers and there lies the problem, plus of course face and an inability to be open to change.

Add to that fifty plus children in a class is difficult unless you take the easy way of rote learning.

Grouping and assigning projects is not known by Thai teachers.

Rant over.

[DDbkh]

I agree - arrogance and ignorance are the words that sum up the Thai malaise. Poor Education is holding the country back and AEC will expose its weaknesses.

For those who think speaking English is unimportant, you will see how badly it affects employment when AEC becomes a reality - which of course is why most people believe Thailand will prevaricate and wriggle to try put it off.

Unfortunately better education would disrupt the top down system of patronage which keeps so much of the population in the dark - it's not in the interests of the politicians or the so-called elite to have a better educated population.

[mmh8]

my 5 cents I beleive the only way Thailand will thrive is if other asean members are as ignorant and stupid as Thailand is to maintain the status quo.

My suspicion is this is the policy taken at the highest levels, maintain current levels until overtaken by others (and it becomes obvious and all the face losing stuff is done with, and the natural face saving, followed by loss of face etc). Then find the scape goat and execute the minister of education or move them to a rural municipality depending on how we are feeling...

This is classic tactics propaganda at high volumes in your national parks and temples, tv hijacked every night on multiple channels to explain exactly how clever everyone is and how the plans are being met and new plans to tackle stupidity in the community will be met by antistupidity training by the military.

There are exceptions, in individuals, as in all countries though in general it seems lessons in common sense would help the country immensly. Perhaps Singapore can provide lessons to Thailand in common sense etc. They could follow up this with critical thinking skills, expand to applying critical thinking skills to everyday tasks....

[AlQaholic]

The quality of education in Thailand has actually decreased dramatically over the past 20 years. It has always been a strategy of those who can send their children to schools abroad to keep the education system in Thailand at a very low level of quality. I meet newly University graduates frequently and their education is worse than those that I hired 20 years ago.

There is also a domino effect in that poorly educated and ignorant parents bring up their children poorly prepared for school and malnutrition-ed (brought up on mama noodles and Thai soap), the children not given the basics for a good and healthy development of the brain.

For the AEC I do not believe Thailand will ever join it....

Edited June 10, 2015 by AlQaholic

[buhi]

Follow up.

Private schools are better, but too expensive for most folk.

This should not be, it is the right of every child to have a decent education.

I admit, my own son attends a private school and has extra tuition at the weekend from his class teacher. Not cheap!

I, when working have a minimum fee of 500 baht an hour.

Who can afford to pay me?

[GOLDBUGGY]

My wife's niece went to the state school in Chonburi. She is now studying clinical medicine on an international English speaking course at a university in China and she was awarded a scholarship on her first year results. She did fairly well at school but was not at the top of the class. It is not all bad.

While in the mean time 100 000 doctors working in Thailand can not speak a word of English and prescribe antibiotic for muscle pain.

Why should they speak a foreign language? Speak to the doctor in Thai, its Thailand

This the basic mistake that Thailand in general makes. The answer is that most knowledge and most medicines are from the West in English. How is a doctor to know what to prescribe if it's named in English and its use is described in English? How is the doctor to get on the internet and improve knowledge?

How is a doctor to stay abreast of the newest medicines and techniques when the professional writings are in English? The internet is the greatest research tool the world has ever known and it's mostly in English.

Well actually No.

Most medicines are not in English. They are Latin. Has been that way for centuries and in which all up-and-coming would be doctors learn as part of their training.

I am not disagreeing in that I to think the Thai Education System needs improvement. I am just pointing out a fact. .

[tigermoth]

I couldn't agree with Khunpa more. Sure there are some extremely smart and well educated people here but compared with the proprtion of these people in other SEA developing countries and the west it is an infitisimal. Of course this is not helped by better educated countries where many Thai students go for higher education. I personally know a professor at a major Australian University who is on the verge of resigning because of students who do not pass the required standards being given passes by the higher ups in the system. This is because of the huge income the Universities make in fees from these foreign students and if they did not receive passes would not continue and would lose almost all of this income. It would be well worth an investigation by some of the major media programs such as four corners or 60 minutes. I'm sure the Government would not be too interested because of obvious reasons.

[phuketandsee]

I'm not sure the education system is the cause or a symptom of the things Emster23 mentions. Andrew MacGregor Marshall has written a lot recently about how the education system is designed to teach total obedience to the point of producing "slaves." This, of course, is to ensure the maintenance of the status quo but, sadly, the whirlwind will be reaped before too much longer.

[buhi]

Before any one writes I am selfish and part of the problem; not true.

I would happily help out at local schools for free. Not permitted.

To teach as a foreigner in Thailand there are many hurdles, accreditation, license and work permit.

A work permit is for only one school, not an allownce to teach anywhere.

Each school does have an allowance to pay for native English speakers.

Where does that money go?

Guess!

Syphoned off to the school and agencies.

Yes I ran one.

Sick of it and now retired.

And foreign teachers, backpackers or has beens with absolutely no training or real qualifications.

Thailand!

[KarenBravo]

This the basic mistake that Thailand in general makes. The answer is that most knowledge and most medicines are from the West in English. How is a doctor to know what to prescribe if it's named in English and its use is described in English? How is the doctor to get on the internet and improve knowledge?

How is a doctor to stay abreast of the newest medicines and techniques when the professional writings are in English? The internet is the greatest research tool the world has ever known and it's mostly in English.

Well actually No.

Most medicines are not in English. They are Latin. Has been that way for centuries and in which all up-and-coming would be doctors learn as part of their training.

I am not disagreeing in that I to think the Thai Education System needs improvement. I am just pointing out a fact. .

Are you saying that the instructions, recommended dosage, possible side-affects are in Latin, too?

[Just1Voice]

A couple of years ago there were a group of teachers from the U.S., Australia and England visiting some of the better schools in Chiang Mai. The teachers at the school were in a panic, and asked my 16 year old niece to act at their "delegated interpreter", as her English skills were better than those of the teachers!

I know 4 Thai who all have Master's degrees in English, but are totally unable to hold a simple, basic conversation in English.

Last year a report came out stating the over 95% of Thai graduates were too afraid to seek employment in other countries because they knew they did not have the English skills that would be required.

4 years ago an international company was thinking of expanding to S.E. Asia. They came to Thailand to do interviews, but finally settled on Singapore. When asked why, the director said it was simple. English is a MUST for their employees, along with technical skills, and out of over 100 people his company interviewed, he couldn't find qualified people with either of those things in Thailand.

Hell, the education programs of little Lao have been rated higher than those of Thailand! And Vietnam is ready to blow Thailand completely out of the water in just about every area.

While Thailand, because of their "pride" and feeling of "superiority" is falling farther and farther behind in ASEAN, and it won't be long before they are on the same level as Cambodia.

[neeray]

My wife's niece went to the state school in Chonburi. She is now studying clinical medicine on an international English speaking course at a university in China and she was awarded a scholarship on her first year results. She did fairly well at school but was not at the top of the class. It is not all bad.

My wife's niece has a University Degree in English and knows less english, than a normal bargirl.

The worst and sad thing is, that it is not even something I am making up.

I am not saying it is all like this. But the fact is that Thailand has a horrible poor educational system.

And that tells us what exactly?

Like someone else you have just missed the point. As the product of a Thai state school my wife's niece is holding her own alongside students from all over the world. If her education has been bad then it does not say a lot for all the other nationalities, and there is quite a few western students.

Some kids will ALWAYS be clever despite the education system, the best people are often SELF taught.

I prefer a degree from USS (University of Street Smarts)

[i claudius]

It comes to something when our son ,who lived for many years in the UK and speaks,reads and writes perfect English and is now in university ,is paid to teach english in his spare time at same university ,as he knows it better than the teachers.

[razer]

There are, to be sure, many, many smart and ambitious Thai students who are a pleasure to be around and work with and I see them on their way to success in the real world. However, in Thailand, students (at university level) expect to pass, regardless of what they do in school and ... they are passed even if they should fail. Perhaps this is because of what I call misplaced values.

Misplaced values? I did an informal survey just out of curiosity a few years ago and did it more than once. Only referencing things I know on a first hand basis.

Thai Pride - Thai food, beaches, shopping (seriously)

Japanese Pride - Quality products, cleanliness, efficiency, quality infrastructure

Korean Pride - Quality products, cleanliness, efficiency, quality infrastructure

Taiwanese Pride - Quality products, cleanliness, efficiency, quality infrastructure

Thai Face - Someone criticizes you for your failing to do something right ... someone holds you accountable for your action

Japanese Face - I brought shame on myself for failing to do something right

Korean Face - I brought shame on myself for failing to do something right (but not as serious as Japan)

Taiwanese Face - I brought shame on myself for failing to do something right (but not as serious as Japan)

[claffey]

Who do you all think you are? You move to a country and expect them to change everything because you said so?? The arrogance of Westerners(in general) is baffling! The Thai educational system is preparing Thai children to survive in Thai society. The majority of Thai kids will be unaffected by Thailand's entry into ASEAN. There will never be any freedom of movement between these countries other than for tourism.The movement of labour will be highly restricted, as it should be. Thailand has almost full employment and little or no welfare state. The education system here is not trying to prepare students to be statesmen or women.Its giving them the tools to be successful...in Thailand! And it des exactly what it sayd on the tin...

Westerners need to realise that this is not Europe of the US. Things are different here.That doesn't mean that things are bad. Look at how happy Thai people are. Compare that to people from Nanny states in Europe who are miserable and do nothing but complain and pay their taxes and bills. Look at the respect that Thai people have for elders.Look at how they take care of their families.. Look at the positives instead of attempting to impose Western ideas and values upon the world. The most evil race of people to ever walk the Earth were White people! Realise this and open your narrow minded perceptions of Asian civilisation.

[Marcel1]

How do you propose they wake up? and who will teach ?

Who will be teaching the teachers?

Really, I have no idea. Which is worrying...

A way could be to open up the country and invite skilled teachers in. But it seems Thailand is acting opposite and ignoring the problem. And ignoring real problems, seems to be a cultural disability here.

I think there are two ways for Thailand. Either they will more or less try to isolate themselves (which will not work) or they will open up the country, making it easier for foreigners to be here and make business here. But one thing is for sure. Since Thailand is close to bottom in nearly all surveys, when it comes to education, they will end up becoming the losers in this part of the world.

There I agree with your OP, I don't think this will be a solution. Many of my friends hold one or more bachelor degrees and, indeed know not much about their fields. One of my co-workers is currently finishing her 2nd bachelor degree and I am still wondering how she even remembers the way to work every morning, shes not the brightest tool in the box. Exceptions are there yes, One of my friends has 2 bachelor degrees of which one is English and she speaks it near fluent while she doesn't have many foreigners as friends.

But you are right about the facts. Still I think if you would open the country up for foreigners it would be a complete mess since they would take over the Thai jobs and the Thais would be unemployed. Who is paying for the unemployed Thai people?

My guess is that they would have to work out their cultural "head in the sand" and "face" issues first and corruption second. How long will that take? I'll give it a generation or two, three. Maybe they have to hit rock bottom first before building up new...

After they fixed these issues it would be helpful to indeed contact other countries to teach the teachers who are then hopefully willing to learn and bring their knowledge to the classrooms.

[buhi]

Who do you all think you are? You move to a country and expect them to change everything because you said so?? The arrogance of Westerners(in general) is baffling! The Thai educational system is preparing Thai children to survive in Thai society. The majority of Thai kids will be unaffected by Thailand's entry into ASEAN. There will never be any freedom of movement between these countries other than for tourism.The movement of labour will be highly restricted, as it should be. Thailand has almost full employment and little or no welfare state. The education system here is not trying to prepare students to be statesmen or women.Its giving them the tools to be successful...in Thailand! And it des exactly what it sayd on the tin...

Westerners need to realise that this is not Europe of the US. Things are different here.That doesn't mean that things are bad. Look at how happy Thai people are. Compare that to people from Nanny states in Europe who are miserable and do nothing but complain and pay their taxes and bills. Look at the respect that Thai people have for elders.Look at how they take care of their families.. Look at the positives instead of attempting to impose Western ideas and values upon the world. The most evil race of people to ever walk the Earth were White people! Realise this and open your narrow minded perceptions of Asian civilisation.

Ah, a keep the aborigines in the jungle!

[fey]

Been having problems specifically with older thai male pharmacists. Could not figure out why.

Finally figured out it was a face thing coupled with no education about the meds. I was going in and ordering my meds on my own without deferring and asking for advice.

Almost every thai will ask the pharmacist what they need and take what is given rather then knowing what their prescription is and ordering a specific dose or brand, and you would in fact get a different med each time. Dumb as door nails.

Even had one guy want to custom mix some cold medicine in the back when all i needed was a simple over the counter pill. His response, abusive swearing about me thinking him stupid. He was correct. Under the towel as usual the money issue, he makes a lot more custom mixing even to the simplistic of requirements.

Also discovered via much trial and error that many lack of understanding incidents are due to the thais not being able to read written text. This includes menu's at restaurants and prices at some places.

In other words they will need to ask another thai nearby or you to say what the order is verbally because they cant read a menu either in english or thai when you point.

Edited June 10, 2015 by fey

[bamukloy]

What do you expect in a country where the words "you think to much" are used as negative statement

Thailand has managed its way thus far without total anarchy im sure tomorrow will be no different.

Not much point in getting all worked up as if they dont care then why should you?

You sound like my parents and everyone from old school thinking...

" You cant just up and leave and go live in another country."...

"Why not"?

Well err um but but. .you just cant"

Get over it dude. Look at the mess the world is in already Some of the supposed greatest educated and greatest minds if our times in charge of our destiny in USA...and what have they got to show for it..debt...useless wars & loss of life, corruption; 2% stinking rich and the rest in debt uo to their eyeballs.

And highly educated lower interest rates to the bone and print money around the clock.

Haha and the kingdom will implode because of lacj of what you call real education.

Gimme a break..

At least they were smart enough to not throw the gates open to all and sundry and sell off the country to the highest foreign bidder

[rayongchelsea]

Who do you all think you are? You move to a country and expect them to change everything because you said so?? The arrogance of Westerners(in general) is baffling! The Thai educational system is preparing Thai children to survive in Thai society. The majority of Thai kids will be unaffected by Thailand's entry into ASEAN. There will never be any freedom of movement between these countries other than for tourism.The movement of labour will be highly restricted, as it should be. Thailand has almost full employment and little or no welfare state. The education system here is not trying to prepare students to be statesmen or women.Its giving them the tools to be successful...in Thailand! And it des exactly what it sayd on the tin...

Westerners need to realise that this is not Europe of the US. Things are different here.That doesn't mean that things are bad. Look at how happy Thai people are. Compare that to people from Nanny states in Europe who are miserable and do nothing but complain and pay their taxes and bills. Look at the respect that Thai people have for elders.Look at how they take care of their families.. Look at the positives instead of attempting to impose Western ideas and values upon the world. The most evil race of people to ever walk the Earth were White people! Realise this and open your narrow minded perceptions of Asian civilisation.

What nonsense. This is a ridiculous post. Have you got any children ?

Have you been exposed to the Thai system? Have you sat in classes where your child is being taught? No of course not.

Plus you seem to have no idea about the freedom of movement in asean.

I have lived and worked here most of my life, I don't expect them to change for me, but you expect progress over 30 years!!

What's all this white bullshit, what about luk kyung..where do they fit in?

Have you worked in a Thai company, not a great experience where meritocracy hardly exists.

You are clearly old, yes respect for elders is here, on the wane, and you should have respect for a multitude of things not simply because you are old..some old people are the biggest a..holes on earth ..yet should get automatic respect..

[hugh2121]

My wife's niece went to the state school in Chonburi. She is now studying clinical medicine on an international English speaking course at a university in China and she was awarded a scholarship on her first year results. She did fairly well at school but was not at the top of the class. It is not all bad.

While in the mean time 100 000 doctors working in Thailand can not speak a word of English and prescribe antibiotic for muscle pain.

Why should a doctor have to speak English when the patients are Thai?

Are you implying that doctors have not been trained properly if they do not speak English.

My comment was regarding the education provided by the state school in Chonburi and not the medical profession but as usual there is always someone that wants to go off at a tangent.

Why should a doctor have to speak English when the patients are Thai?

Because the medical books are written in English

[KarenBravo]

Who do you all think you are? You move to a country and expect them to change everything because you said so?? The arrogance of Westerners(in general) is baffling! The Thai educational system is preparing Thai children to survive in Thai society. The majority of Thai kids will be unaffected by Thailand's entry into ASEAN. There will never be any freedom of movement between these countries other than for tourism.The movement of labour will be highly restricted, as it should be. Thailand has almost full employment and little or no welfare state. The education system here is not trying to prepare students to be statesmen or women.Its giving them the tools to be successful...in Thailand! And it des exactly what it sayd on the tin...

Westerners need to realise that this is not Europe of the US. Things are different here.That doesn't mean that things are bad. Look at how happy Thai people are. Compare that to people from Nanny states in Europe who are miserable and do nothing but complain and pay their taxes and bills. Look at the respect that Thai people have for elders.Look at how they take care of their families.. Look at the positives instead of attempting to impose Western ideas and values upon the world. The most evil race of people to ever walk the Earth were White people! Realise this and open your narrow minded perceptions of Asian civilisation.

Ever heard the expression Globalization?

You do know that countries now have to compete against each other economically, right?

Those that fail, the quality of life of their citizens go down. Those that succeed goes up.

Your recommendation to look at only the positive things is rather puerile and childish. Problems never get fixed that way.

Were you an Ostrich in a previous life?

Western ideas? Yup, industrialization was a Western idea, for better, or, worse. But, all the world now takes part.

Western ideas created western medicine, too.

Denigrating the West and it's people but, I still bet you use all the things that that culture produced. Got a vehicle with an internal combustion engine? Do you use electricity and all the devices that use it?

You are a hypocrite and rather pathetic.

P.S. And as for evilness, Asians are more than a match for Whitey. How about Mao and Pol Pot?

Edited June 10, 2015 by KarenBravo

[buhi]

I have a young Thai friend, who is a manager at an American franchise here.

We speak most days as he wants to improve his English skills. No I do not charge him a fee!

I try to add one or two new English words to his vocabulary each time. He notes them, saves them on his smartphone. Also idioms, not part of Thai English teaching, as Thai teachers of English have not a clue about them.

The English language is speckled with idioms and oblique references.

Most native speakers are not aware of this themselves, just normal language.

Not to a Thai trying to learn English.

Another rant!