Will lack of education be the downfall of Thailand?

[mike324]

My wife's niece went to the state school in Chonburi. She is now studying clinical medicine on an international English speaking course at a university in China and she was awarded a scholarship on her first year results. She did fairly well at school but was not at the top of the class. It is not all bad.

While in the mean time 100 000 doctors working in Thailand can not speak a word of English and prescribe antibiotic for muscle pain.

Why should a doctor have to speak English when the patients are Thai?

Are you implying that doctors have not been trained properly if they do not speak English.

My comment was regarding the education provided by the state school in Chonburi and not the medical profession but as usual there is always someone that wants to go off at a tangent.

May be because English is part of curriculum or because most of medical terms are in Latin .

May be because if they could not learn something as basic as English it is highly unlikely they learned anything at all.

May be because antibiotics are not suitable for muscle pain

But I am just guessing, no doubt you know more because your niece studied in public school and is now in China and do happens she is studying medicine .

Let's hope she learns the difference between antibiotics and anti inflammatory medication

I'm sure most certified doctors know medical terms if they are qualify. But still I don't see why Thai doctors need to speak English.

If you look at doctors in develop Asian countries such as Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan, most cannot speak English as well but education level are high in those countries and doctors are just as competent as in the West. Heck there are more Thais who can speak English than those countries as well. So knowing how to speak English has nothing to do with level of education.

In your case, its either a language barrier or poorly trained doctor thats why you got the wrong medication. But prescribing antibiotics for muscle pain is not wrong too, there are links to muscle pain with bacteria infection.

[NoshowJones]

Education could very well be the downfall of Thailand eventually, there are too many unqualified people working in shops, offices etc, who

get automatic passmarks when finishing high school.

I have been told of people working in offices, ie local Amphurs who spend ages typing out forms using only one finger. I went into a local phone shop recently,

and asked the girl for 200 Bt top up, held up two 100bt notes, asked her in Thai to top up, I also asked her in English, she just shrugged her shoulders.

Even without speaking at all, holding up two 100 bt notes and pointing to my phone, you would think it was obvious what I wanted. The Thais are mainly

decent honest people, but their stupidity is alarming. I am not talking about all Thai people here, but a great many.

[NoshowJones]

My wife's niece went to the state school in Chonburi. She is now studying clinical medicine on an international English speaking course at a university in China and she was awarded a scholarship on her first year results. She did fairly well at school but was not at the top of the class. It is not all bad.

No, it certainly is not all bad, but too much of it is.

[gandalf12]

I would consider the following to be a reasonable guideline:

1. With a good teacher you may learn 70% of what is being taught

2. With dedication and a lot of hard work number 1 may become 85%

It has been stated in the past that University lecturers do not understand the latest technology themselves. If this is true and as it was published by a Thai newspaper, I have to assume it is, how can the students ever catch up with the rest of the world? Yes there are some veryy clever people in Thailand unfortunatly most have been educated overseas and a large proportion have left Thailand and settled in other countries.

[jumbo]

The downfall in the EU economies was partly due to the fact that they were all well educated

They didnot have any local people that wanted to work in a factory anymore and started hiring cheap southern european labour..in the 70's

Now they complaint about too many 'foreigners' duping the domestic labour market and the disappearance of the specific origins of their countries.

Reading that 'most neighbouring countries' are overtaking Thailand in education, I think there is a nice opportunity here for a niche market.

Surely when all other SEA nations have surpassed Thailand in education these SEA citizens like the European educated citizens will

not want to work in factories anymore...... There is a market coming for Thai and exactly fitted to their supposed lack of education...

So just go with the education downfall and all will be good again in a few years...

[khunpa]

A couple of years ago there were a group of teachers from the U.S., Australia and England visiting some of the better schools in Chiang Mai. The teachers at the school were in a panic, and asked my 16 year old niece to act at their "delegated interpreter", as her English skills were better than those of the teachers!

I know 4 Thai who all have Master's degrees in English, but are totally unable to hold a simple, basic conversation in English.

Last year a report came out stating the over 95% of Thai graduates were too afraid to seek employment in other countries because they knew they did not have the English skills that would be required.

4 years ago an international company was thinking of expanding to S.E. Asia. They came to Thailand to do interviews, but finally settled on Singapore. When asked why, the director said it was simple. English is a MUST for their employees, along with technical skills, and out of over 100 people his company interviewed, he couldn't find qualified people with either of those things in Thailand.

Hell, the education programs of little Lao have been rated higher than those of Thailand! And Vietnam is ready to blow Thailand completely out of the water in just about every area.

While Thailand, because of their "pride" and feeling of "superiority" is falling farther and farther behind in ASEAN, and it won't be long before they are on the same level as Cambodia.

Completely agree. A very big problem is related to the "pride" and feeling of "superiority". Add to that the concept of "not losing face", which has developed into an important tool to cover up mistakes, ignorance and stupidity.

What Thais in generel do not understand (or refuse to understand), is that the only way you really learn is from trying and making mistakes. Another thing is the ability to recognise and admit that their existing system is not superior, but the opposite - and face the problem. If you ever lived with a Thai, you know that the best thing to do when disagreeing on something or facing a problem, is to just keep quite and forget/ignore the problem. Because Buddha forbid that anyone "lost face" and actually learnt something new.

Another issue, which is really strange, is the concept of "Pride". If you look at teachers here, they actually have no pride in what they do. They have no social awareness or feel no social responsibility. All they think about is "here and now" and how much money they can make from teaching the students the exam-questions after school. The lack of social responsibility, you will find everywhere here. Thais do really not care about Thailand. They care about themselves and nobody else.

Besides the above, there is of course also the fear of everything unknown, like e.g. foreigners. Before, I sometimes felt that the Thais were racist towards foreigners, especially (like me) doing business here. I now realise that they are not racists, but simply shit-scared of us. I have lived and worked in af few of the surrounding countries (eg. Vietnam). One big difference from working there, was that they actually appreciated learning new things and they learnt very fast. That you will never find in Thailand, because here you must under no circumstances reveal any weakness or mistakes. Thats why Thailand will always be on "stand still" and one day find themselves as the biggest losers of ASEAN.

Edited June 10, 2015 by khunpa

[buhi]

I would consider the following to be a reasonable guideline:

1. With a good teacher you may learn 70% of what is being taught

2. With dedication and a lot of hard work number 1 may become 85%

It has been stated in the past that University lecturers do not understand the latest technology themselves. If this is true and as it was published by a Thai newspaper, I have to assume it is, how can the students ever catch up with the rest of the world? Yes there are some veryy clever people in Thailand unfortunatly most have been educated overseas and a large proportion have left Thailand and settled in other countries.

Or in very expensive international schools before going oversea for further university education.

No not the one Yingluck has a piece of paper from!

[NoshowJones]

Ask as many Thais as you can what 6x7 is and report back your findings ( no calculators allowed)

As most of them cannot speak much English, they would not understand your question.

If you wanted to take a survey on this, the would have to do it in Thai.

[KarenBravo]

The downfall in the EU economies was partly due to the fact that they were all well educated

They didnot have any local people that wanted to work in a factory anymore and started hiring cheap southern european labour..in the 70's

Now they complaint about too many 'foreigners' duping the domestic labour market and the disappearance of the specific origins of their countries.

Reading that 'most neighbouring countries' are overtaking Thailand in education, I think there is a nice opportunity here for a niche market.

Surely when all other SEA nations have surpassed Thailand in education these SEA citizens like the European educated citizens will

not want to work in factories anymore...... There is a market coming for Thai and exactly fitted to their supposed lack of education...

So just go with the education downfall and all will be good again in a few years...

Not so.

Britain's economy is doing very nicely and we have loads of immigrants.

What differs between Britain and Europe are workers rights, retirement ages and Unions.

In Europe, workers rights are so tilted in favour of workers, it's almost impossible to fire anyone, thus the reticence of companies in hiring workers that they can't shed when needs be.

Government workers in France and Greece could retire on full pension at 50 years old.

In Britain, Unions no longer can hold the government to ransom.

With America and the UK it's called the "Anglo-Saxon" economic model.

No accident that these two economies were the first to recover from the global economic melt-down.

Edited June 10, 2015 by KarenBravo

[biggles45]

" there are too many unqualified people working in shops, offices etc, who get automatic passmarks when finishing high school."

a Thai friend had a son who was in his final year of high school, ready for Uni the next year. This boy could not hold a simple conversation in English with me...my very poor Thai was better than his English !! I looked at his english text book and I would have had trouble with some of the grammer rules and tests in it.,Yet this lad had passed every school test and was deemed ready for Uni. He just couldn't see that his english ability was in any way inadequate.

[pauleddy]

Agree with Henryford. If you don't learn to drive, you are a danger and potentially a killer. Little wonder that xxx thousand people die, or are injured, every day, every public holiday or whichever yardstick you use.

Returning to the main thread: I have been involved in education for 22 years and then some...mainly at uni level, in three different countries.

The OP is right. Education is at the root of civilization. Without the handing on of knowledge, from which can be distilled wisdom, there is no real "society" or "civilization". Dangerous schisms will occur within the social fabric. There is no advancement. People become frustrated when they cannot reach their potential, or they don't even know what potential is. I spend time in Malaysia, Vietnam and Singapore, places where Kids and Parents want education more than a new IPhone or Bag.

Education is a golden key which opens up a thousand boxes, and not only money-boxes. Without education, we would be living in caves (still).

There are other dimensions to this. The latin root verb educe-- means to draw out or bring out potential. As such, it is very closely related to, or often synonymous with deduce. Only at the simplest level is education about teachers and blackboards and detentions. Of course, the Spanish sum it all up well. In Spanish, the noun educacion (excuse my keyboard), and the adjective educado/a refer not only to academia but also to being civilised, polite (etc.)---a well-rounded person. Somebody who is maleducado is boorish and impolite, even uncouth perhaps, and so lacking in education in the classic sense.

Lamentably, this thread about Thailand recurs every day or every week, in some form. It's all true for about 90%+ of the population. Of course, if daddy is a wealthy doctor, then sonny will be pushed into that mould as well, while the rice farmer kid with an IQ of 160 will get nowhere. I don't know what the solution is. It must have many components: discipline, lack of corruption, talent-spotting, education management, training the Thai teachers properly, equality for all within education, being allowed to make mistakes (which really does reinforce learning!)..etc etc. Ultimately it must be top-down, because the generals or politicians control the resources. The kids cannot educate themselves, just as the parents cannot educate the kids except in the family setting (and the parents have even less of an education in most cases).

My experience in Thai unis is that experienced farang educators are not involved in what is a closed shop. Thais are terrified of losing face, and have huge chips on shoulders. Farangs may be asked to check spelling, write exams (etc.) but only in a few places are they asked to sit on exam boards or interview boards, or to participate in strategic decisions. The Thais are terrified, because they know that, in general, western educators "do it better" because we have watched our own education systems evolve, change, make mistakes, change again, and so on. We have the vision and hundreds of years of experience. I'm not racist, but I have sat in on classes where Thai English teachers cannot speak English. What, I ask myself, is the point of that? It's just perpetuating the same problems and adding another 30 years to the time-frame for solving this mess.

Credo: All kids everywhere should have the highest standard of education as a birthright. Rich or poor, black or yellow or pink kids. Without that, what hope is there for the future of Thailand, Greenland or Anyland?

Sigh.......

[mike324]

This thread is turning into a "must know English to progress". Why are some folks so adamant about non English speakers knowing English? Yes it opens up new door and a brighter future. But thats not the thing Thais need to worry about. Just take a look at Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan where most folks don't know English and have lower speaking skills than Thais, yet those country have developed very well. Students are constantly ranked at the top compare to the rest of the world.

Yes medical knowledge comes out in English first, so are medical books. But these are always quickly translated. Its unrealistic to ask all non-english speakers to learn English so they can be better doctors and what not. The solution to counter that is having text translated quickly so the non english speaking countries can progress as quick.

Thailands problem lies with basic education, outdated curriculum, and teachers. It would take at least 20 years for us to see change if changes are made now. This point of view is from students getting a better education and being paid well and becoming better qualify teachers 20 years down the road to have an impact on the society.

[buhi]

Agree with Henryford. If you don't learn to drive, you are a danger and potentially a killer. Little wonder that xxx thousand people die, or are injured, every day, every public holiday or whichever yardstick you use.

Returning to the main thread: I have been involved in education for 22 years and then some...mainly at uni level, in three different countries.

The OP is right. Education is at the root of civilization. Without the handing on of knowledge, from which can be distilled wisdom, there is no real "society" or "civilization". Dangerous schisms will occur within the social fabric. There is no advancement. People become frustrated when they cannot reach their potential, or they don't even know what potential is. I spend time in Malaysia, Vietnam and Singapore, places where Kids and Parents want education more than a new IPhone or Bag.

Education is a golden key which opens up a thousand boxes, and not only money-boxes. Without education, we would be living in caves (still).

There are other dimensions to this. The latin root verb educe-- means to draw out or bring out potential. As such, it is very closely related to, or often synonymous with deduce. Only at the simplest level is education about teachers and blackboards and detentions. Of course, the Spanish sum it all up well. In Spanish, the noun educacion (excuse my keyboard), and the adjective educado/a refer not only to academia but also to being civilised, polite (etc.)---a well-rounded person. Somebody who is maleducado is boorish and impolite, even uncouth perhaps, and so lacking in education in the classic sense.

Lamentably, this thread about Thailand recurs every day or every week, in some form. It's all true for about 90%+ of the population. Of course, if daddy is a wealthy doctor, then sonny will be pushed into that mould as well, while the rice farmer kid with an IQ of 160 will get nowhere. I don't know what the solution is. It must have many components: discipline, lack of corruption, talent-spotting, education management, training the Thai teachers properly, equality for all within education, being allowed to make mistakes (which really does reinforce learning!)..etc etc. Ultimately it must be top-down, because the generals or politicians control the resources. The kids cannot educate themselves, just as the parents cannot educate the kids except in the family setting (and the parents have even less of an education in most cases).

My experience in Thai unis is that experienced farang educators are not involved in what is a closed shop. Thais are terrified of losing face, and have huge chips on shoulders. Farangs may be asked to check spelling, write exams (etc.) but only in a few places are they asked to sit on exam boards or interview boards, or to participate in strategic decisions. The Thais are terrified, because they know that, in general, western educators "do it better" because we have watched our own education systems evolve, change, make mistakes, change again, and so on. We have the vision and hundreds of years of experience. I'm not racist, but I have sat in on classes where Thai English teachers cannot speak English. What, I ask myself, is the point of that? It's just perpetuating the same problems and adding another 30 years to the time-frame for solving this mess.

Credo: All kids everywhere should have the highest standard of education as a birthright. Rich or poor, black or yellow or pink kids. Without that, what hope is there for the future of Thailand, Greenland or Anyland?

Sigh.......

Excellent!

Same page.

[NoshowJones]

Who do you all think you are? You move to a country and expect them to change everything because you said so?? The arrogance of Westerners(in general) is baffling! The Thai educational system is preparing Thai children to survive in Thai society. The majority of Thai kids will be unaffected by Thailand's entry into ASEAN. There will never be any freedom of movement between these countries other than for tourism.The movement of labour will be highly restricted, as it should be. Thailand has almost full employment and little or no welfare state. The education system here is not trying to prepare students to be statesmen or women.Its giving them the tools to be successful...in Thailand! And it des exactly what it sayd on the tin...

Westerners need to realise that this is not Europe of the US. Things are different here.That doesn't mean that things are bad. Look at how happy Thai people are. Compare that to people from Nanny states in Europe who are miserable and do nothing but complain and pay their taxes and bills. Look at the respect that Thai people have for elders.Look at how they take care of their families.. Look at the positives instead of attempting to impose Western ideas and values upon the world. The most evil race of people to ever walk the Earth were White people! Realise this and open your narrow minded perceptions of Asian civilisation.

I agree there is a lot in what you say, but forget about Thailand and Western countries. The fact that in Thailand, children are graduating

from high school with pass marks when they have failed their exams. That is wrong in any country.

The most evil race of people to ever walk the Earth were White people???? There are people of a certain race, who are more evil than any white people ever were, and they are also very active in some countries today.

I think you know who I am referring too.

[fvw53]

My wife's niece went to the state school in Chonburi. She is now studying clinical medicine on an international English speaking course at a university in China and she was awarded a scholarship on her first year results. She did fairly well at school but was not at the top of the class. It is not all bad.

While in the mean time 100 000 doctors working in Thailand can not speak a word of English and prescribe antibiotic for muscle pain.

Why should they speak a foreign language? Speak to the doctor in Thai, its Thailand

The issue is not the communication between Thai doctors and Thai patients : the issue is I don't believe a doctor can remain competent if he cannot inform himself of the the latest scientific developments on the internet which is 90% or more in English. The same applies to professionals active in other sectors requiring scientific knowledge.

[buhi]

An aside, but on topic.

I was once on a panel to select the winner of an English speaking competition for children under eleven.

The prize , all expenses paid for family to go to Disneyland.

It was very obvious to me who the winner was, a farmer's daughter from Issan.

However the local bigwig had already agreed who would win, a friend of his, son!

Expletive, I hit the roof (idiom), but pointless!

[Docno]

Khunpa: Everything you have said is very accurate, insightful, and well stated.

The bottom line is Thais don't take life seriously. Their major concern is what's for lunch.

And therein lies their charm. Have worked in Singapore for almost 16 years, part of that in the university system, and much of it assessing scholarship candidates and scholars. They are very intelligent and driven people. They take life 'seriously', as you say. Weekends are for tuition. Travel is for learning. But surveys suggest that they are among the least happy people on the planet. I've supervised business students who are desperately unhappy because they studying something to make their parents happy or to make enough money to live a lifestyle others expect of them. So I'm happy to see less seriousness. And more happiness.

[Just to be clear, I'm not dismissing the importance of a good education, but questioning the trend for success to be measured in terms of one's job and bank account].

[GOLDBUGGY]

This the basic mistake that Thailand in general makes. The answer is that most knowledge and most medicines are from the West in English. How is a doctor to know what to prescribe if it's named in English and its use is described in English? How is the doctor to get on the internet and improve knowledge?

How is a doctor to stay abreast of the newest medicines and techniques when the professional writings are in English? The internet is the greatest research tool the world has ever known and it's mostly in English.

Well actually No.

Most medicines are not in English. They are Latin. Has been that way for centuries and in which all up-and-coming would be doctors learn as part of their training.

I am not disagreeing in that I to think the Thai Education System needs improvement. I am just pointing out a fact. .

Are you saying that the instructions, recommended dosage, possible side-affects are in Latin, too?

No! Those are translated into Thai.

If you have ever been to a Thai's Doctor Office, or Hospital, and were so bored out of your tree waiting, you would have noticed the posters on the wall, which many are translated into Thai.

I really don't understand your Beef about Thai Doctors not speaking English anyway. In Pattaya I have been to the Pattaya International Hospital several times and never had a problem at the Reception Area or speaking to a Thai Doctor in English. I even ended up in that hospital once for a few days, and was visited by 2 different doctors per day, and even a Specialist twice, and all of them spoke English to me. The Nurses were not as knowledgeable in English but there was always some Head Nurse on their that did speak this language.

It was pretty much the same at the Bangkok-Pattaya Hospital in Pattaya as well. From the Reception right through to the Doctors and Dentists I never had a problem communicating with any of them. If you had ever been their, you would know this also. But if you live in some small village in the North East and the local doctor is not fluent in English, then what did you expect when you moved their? I can take you to places in North East Quebec Canada to, where the local Doctor only speaks French and no English. Does this make them uneducated?

If you want the truth I would gladly take many of the Doctors I met and had dealings with in Thailand and trade them for the Imported Doctors we now get in Canada. The Trained and Educated Canadian Doctors all move to the States for the Big Money. The newest one we have in my Home Town comes from Nigeria. Wouldn't surprise me one bit to see him wearing a Voodoo Mask when you came for your first visit.

But he would be a step up compared the the last Doctor they had their who came from South Africa. Must have got his degree out of a Corn Flakes Box. But they wont stay long anyway. The just take and make the Big Bucks for a little while and then move back home a Rich Man after a few years.

I have been in Intensive Care 3 times while I was in Thailand. Each time I owed my life to the highly skilled and trained professional their and their modern lab and equipment. Especially the English Speaking Doctors that took such good care of me their.

No! I have No Beef whatsoever against the Thai Doctors here. .

[khunpa]

This thread is turning into a "must know English to progress". Why are some folks so adamant about non English speakers knowing English? Yes it opens up new door and a brighter future. But thats not the thing Thais need to worry about. Just take a look at Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan where most folks don't know English and have lower speaking skills than Thais, yet those country have developed very well. Students are constantly ranked at the top compare to the rest of the world.

Yes medical knowledge comes out in English first, so are medical books. But these are always quickly translated. Its unrealistic to ask all non-english speakers to learn English so they can be better doctors and what not. The solution to counter that is having text translated quickly so the non english speaking countries can progress as quick.

Thailands problem lies with basic education, outdated curriculum, and teachers. It would take at least 20 years for us to see change if changes are made now. This point of view is from students getting a better education and being paid well and becoming better qualify teachers 20 years down the road to have an impact on the society.

I would recommend Thais to learn Chinese instead of English... because as things are going, China will completely rule this country (in relation to business) and exploit it as their entertainment hub.

Chinese is much better than English and should be taught to all.

Edited June 10, 2015 by khunpa

[buhi]

Khunpa: Everything you have said is very accurate, insightful, and well stated.

The bottom line is Thais don't take life seriously. Their major concern is what's for lunch.

And therein lies their charm. Have worked in Singapore for almost 16 years, part of that in the university system, and much of it assessing scholarship candidates and scholars. They are very intelligent and driven people. They take life 'seriously', as you say. Weekends are for tuition. Travel is for learning. But surveys suggest that they are among the least happy people on the planet. I've supervised business students who are desperately unhappy because they studying something to make their parents happy or to make enough money to live a lifestyle others expect of them. So I'm happy to see less seriousness. And more happiness.

[Just to be clear, I'm not dismissing the importance of a good education, but questioning the trend for success to be measured in terms of one's job and bank account].

Strange as it might seem, I do agree ; life is about living, not bits of paper and big bank accounts.

My son knows this , has learnt from me.

He is not an academic like me.

I was not many years ago; a free spirit with opportunities to learn, not forced to.

But then I did have a good basic education and was taught very early on in life crytical thinking skills.

[khunpa]

Who do you all think you are? You move to a country and expect them to change everything because you said so?? The arrogance of Westerners(in general) is baffling! The Thai educational system is preparing Thai children to survive in Thai society. The majority of Thai kids will be unaffected by Thailand's entry into ASEAN. There will never be any freedom of movement between these countries other than for tourism.The movement of labour will be highly restricted, as it should be. Thailand has almost full employment and little or no welfare state. The education system here is not trying to prepare students to be statesmen or women.Its giving them the tools to be successful...in Thailand! And it des exactly what it sayd on the tin...

Westerners need to realise that this is not Europe of the US. Things are different here.That doesn't mean that things are bad. Look at how happy Thai people are. Compare that to people from Nanny states in Europe who are miserable and do nothing but complain and pay their taxes and bills. Look at the respect that Thai people have for elders.Look at how they take care of their families.. Look at the positives instead of attempting to impose Western ideas and values upon the world. The most evil race of people to ever walk the Earth were White people! Realise this and open your narrow minded perceptions of Asian civilisation.

Okay, so let me understand this... You think it is good for Thailand and Thai-people that their education system way is behind most other countries? Do you think it is good that a large part of the population can not read and write? Is it good parenting to just accept a bad educational system, that gives your child no real options in life?

Yes, Thailand has a nearly full employment rate. And what does most of the jobs really consist of? Sitting on a chair sleeping or playing Candy Crush all day. Do you really think education is something unimportant in todays world? You sound like you believe education is something only White-persons value... Are you serious?

And by the way... Not all Thai people are happy. I know many Thai-people who are sad and frustrated, that they are forced to work shitty jobs for the rest of their life, because they never had access to a good educational system. Just because they smile when you pay them, does not mean they are happy.

Edited June 10, 2015 by khunpa

[buhi]

I remember (yes have a good memory) Karen Bravo stating that anyone with a Thai child of Farang (no problem with that word) should take that child back to the West for a good education.

As one recognised as one of the best teachers in Thailand, not necessary.

Why does my son receive extra lessons on a Saturday; not my choice, he has a Thai mother and best not ( idiom) rock the boat.

Furthermore I cannot read Thai, cannot help him there.

He is bi lingual, thus English skills are learnt by our conversations and reading in English.

In my opinion he would learn more by playing with his friends on a non school day.

Strange am I not.

[chrisandsu]

I think some people either mix in the underclasses (understandably poor education) or they have not been 'home' in a longggggg time . My Thai family puts me to shame with how intelligent they are ! You do realise the west gives out university degrees like confetti these days ? Education is big business now , the more students that role through those doors the more money they make ....... Simple

[buhi]

I think some people either mix in the underclasses (understandably poor education) or they have not been 'home' in a longggggg time . My Thai family puts me to shame with how intelligent they are ! You do realise the west gives out university degrees like confetti these days ? Education is big business now , the more students that role through those doors the more money they make ....... Simple

In which countries ? I an expat for too long to know if what you say is true.

Can get an oxbridge degree now like "confetti", I hope not.

[billd766]

My wife's niece went to the state school in Chonburi. She is now studying clinical medicine on an international English speaking course at a university in China and she was awarded a scholarship on her first year results. She did fairly well at school but was not at the top of the class. It is not all bad.

While in the mean time 100 000 doctors working in Thailand can not speak a word of English and prescribe antibiotic for muscle pain.

@konying How many doctors have you seen in the last few years that couldn't speak English or prescribe an antibiotic for muscle pain.

Even the lady in my local pharmacy who speaks very little English can understand and offer an OTC antibiotic for aches and pains and most of the bigger pharmacies have a pharmacist who speaks English.

Most of the doctors I have been to see, granted it was less than ten, could speak English but some out here in rural Thailand were a bit rusty as they don't see that many farangs on a daily basis. Some even have a British sense of humour.

[KarenBravo]

Actually, not really quite true.

Degrees in "soft" subjects like Art History, Social sciences etc, are given out like confetti, because the subjects are not hard to pass.

Subjects in the hard sciences like maths, physics, engineering are hard to get, as they always have been.

British business has got wise to this which is why they are always complaining about not being able to find people with the qualifications they seek.

Art history graduates etc. usually end up in jobs where a degree is not needed.

Edited June 10, 2015 by KarenBravo

[buhi]

I think some people either mix in the underclasses (understandably poor education) or they have not been 'home' in a longggggg time . My Thai family puts me to shame with how intelligent they are ! You do realise the west gives out university degrees like confetti these days ? Education is big business now , the more students that role through those doors the more money they make ....... Simple

In which countries ? I an expat for too long to know if what you say is true.

Can get an oxbridge degree now like "confetti", I hope not.

My post graduate degree is from Cambridge University and I admit I am proud of it.

It has opened many doors and highly respected in Thailand.

[Docno]

Riffing off something Buhi has said.... Math, English, etc., are important, sure. But perhaps the most important thing for people to learn--and the thing that schools perhaps teach least effectively--is critical / scientific thinking. . Without this capability, you can't have robust democracy, people are too easily influenced by demagogues and religious leaders with questionable motives, and people may not even act in their own self interest.

[buhi]

Actually, not really quite true.

Degrees in "soft" subjects like Art History, Social sciences etc, are given out like confetti, because the subjects are not hard to pass.

Subjects in the hard sciences like maths, physics, engineering are hard to get, as they always have been.

British business has got wise to this which is why they are always complaining about not being able to find people with the qualifications they seek.

Art history graduates etc. usually end up in jobs where a degree is not needed.

Ok, my original degree was in the arts, post graduate in education. Soft, well open to opinion.

[rijb]

This thread is turning into a "must know English to progress". Why are some folks so adamant about non English speakers knowing English? Yes it opens up new door and a brighter future. But thats not the thing Thais need to worry about. Just take a look at Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan where most folks don't know English and have lower speaking skills than Thais, yet those country have developed very well. Students are constantly ranked at the top compare to the rest of the world.

Yes medical knowledge comes out in English first, so are medical books. But these are always quickly translated. Its unrealistic to ask all non-english speakers to learn English so they can be better doctors and what not. The solution to counter that is having text translated quickly so the non english speaking countries can progress as quick.

Thailands problem lies with basic education, outdated curriculum, and teachers. It would take at least 20 years for us to see change if changes are made now. This point of view is from students getting a better education and being paid well and becoming better qualify teachers 20 years down the road to have an impact on the society.

I would recommend Thais to learn Chinese instead of English... because as things are going, China will completely rule this country (in relation to business) and exploit it as their entertainment hub.

Chinese is much better than English and should be taught to all.

You made some very bold statements.

What metrics do you use to determine one language is better than the other?

Do you speak Chinese? There are many varieties of Chinese. How many do you speak? Many Chinese have to learn several varieties of Chinese to communicate with each other. A number of Chinese use English instead. What variety of Chinese should the Thai people learn?

Most experts believe it would take 2-3 generations before Chinese could replace English as the global language. What is your 'expert' opinion?

And how do you think technology will play a part in all this? Google, and others, racing to bring automated, real-time translators to the market. With that in mind, should we be learning more languages or should we be learning more how to talk out of our butts?