Can I sell a scooter for someone not in Thailand?

[vacatioaire]

A friend of mine no longer living in Thailand has asked me to sell her scooter that she left here two years ago. She was planning to return but family issues prevented it.

I have the blue book, which is in her name. Is it possible to transfer ownership if she is not present to sign it over?

Many thanks!

Edited June 12, 2015 by vacatioaire

[LivinLOS]

It depends..

To sell a bike you usually need a current permission to stay stamp of the owner (and in some cases a fresh residence letter or one of the 4 ways of showing residential address)..

So going and simply trying to do it will usually fail.. When questioned formally, IE phuket Gazettes issues and answers.. The boss claims that 'if the seller has left the country it can still be done but on a case by case basis and they want to make sure its legit'.. Thats what they claim in the paper.. I know for a fact that someone left phuket with 2 big bikes in his name and despite letters, signing everything, and being available to talk via phones they refused to change the name. So they claim on thing when formally questioned and another in reality.

Then again usually a couple of 1000 paid with a fixer suddenly makes anything possible. I have moved bikes names without a single piece of paper, except the kind that goes in wallets. They then rubber stamped the lot.

[CharlieH]

MOVED to Bike forum

[papa al]

I hope the scooter's blue book is actually green.

[vacatioaire]

I hope the scooter's blue book is actually green.

Green book. My mistake.

[eisfeld]

It depends..

To sell a bike you usually need a current permission to stay stamp of the owner (and in some cases a fresh residence letter or one of the 4 ways of showing residential address)..

So going and simply trying to do it will usually fail.. When questioned formally, IE phuket Gazettes issues and answers.. The boss claims that 'if the seller has left the country it can still be done but on a case by case basis and they want to make sure its legit'.. Thats what they claim in the paper.. I know for a fact that someone left phuket with 2 big bikes in his name and despite letters, signing everything, and being available to talk via phones they refused to change the name. So they claim on thing when formally questioned and another in reality.

Then again usually a couple of 1000 paid with a fixer suddenly makes anything possible. I have moved bikes names without a single piece of paper, except the kind that goes in wallets. They then rubber stamped the lot.

Without a single piece of paper and not signing anything? Makes you feel very safe about your property in Thailand.

No surprise that there are stories about houses and land having owner changed without the knowledge of the proper owner/lessee.

[oneday]

My answer would be "no". Every time I have had to buy a bike or car or change a name or remove a name you need:

1. A copy of the falang's passport with a signature, which actually shouldn't be too difficult with scanners and email.

2. The difficult part is getting the "resident certificate" which requires the falang to go to immigration and get it and this certificate is only good for one month. I've never heard that anything other than a "resident certificate" will do the job and I've never been given an alternative.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

but you can still sell it. the scooter i drive for 12 years now was never in my name and it was never an issue .

it's just a scooter.

[Guest]

Please contact me directly with info on the bike, looking for a scooter ... Thanks

[NoshowJones]

It depends..

To sell a bike you usually need a current permission to stay stamp of the owner (and in some cases a fresh residence letter or one of the 4 ways of showing residential address)..

So going and simply trying to do it will usually fail.. When questioned formally, IE phuket Gazettes issues and answers.. The boss claims that 'if the seller has left the country it can still be done but on a case by case basis and they want to make sure its legit'.. Thats what they claim in the paper.. I know for a fact that someone left phuket with 2 big bikes in his name and despite letters, signing everything, and being available to talk via phones they refused to change the name. So they claim on thing when formally questioned and another in reality.

Then again usually a couple of 1000 paid with a fixer suddenly makes anything possible. I have moved bikes names without a single piece of paper, except the kind that goes in wallets. They then rubber stamped the lot.

This is another case of making corruption work for you, yes, mostly corruption is bad, but not always.

[timmyp]

Four years ago I purchased a motorbike that had been owned by a Swedish man who had been out of the country for well over a year. The proof of residency had therefore expired. I was given an envelope that contained documents from the original Swedish owner. I do not remember all of what was contained in the envelope. It mostly had the necessary forms already signed by the Swedish man, but lacking dates. This was legal. I changed the registration of the motorbike over to myself in Bangkok at the Dept of Land Transport.

I didn't pay an extra "corruption fees" to allow this to happen, it was all legitimate. Because I had all the necessary document, I didn't have any problems. I can't remember what documents were required, but it certainly is possible to change the title over despite the foreigner being out of the country for so long.

I highly suggest getting the bike legal. While you can pay your way out of small problems, if you get in a serious problem (which is definitely possible with a motorbike), things are going to get far more complicated if you are driving an illegitimate vehicle. I fully empathize with someone taking risks because there is no choice, but it sounds like you have a choice here, so I disagree with anyone suggesting that you it's easy enough just to drive the bike around without getting the title changed.

[NickJ]

I bought a motorcycle from a guy who had moved back to America. He downloaded documents from Thai immigraton.signed and sent them to be. I. recall he also sent pictures of his passport and they includrd an exit stamp.....Anyways all was fine. my info is pretty current and firsthand. So ask Immigration.

[LivinLOS]

My answer would be "no". Every time I have had to buy a bike or car or change a name or remove a name you need:

1. A copy of the falang's passport with a signature, which actually shouldn't be too difficult with scanners and email.

2. The difficult part is getting the "resident certificate" which requires the falang to go to immigration and get it and this certificate is only good for one month. I've never heard that anything other than a "resident certificate" will do the job and I've never been given an alternative.

The OP said 'sell' not buy..

Usually the cert of residence isnt needed for sellers (did one 2 weeks ago) but sometimes if they are being awkward it is..

[LivinLOS]

Four years ago I purchased a motorbike that had been owned by a Swedish man who had been out of the country for well over a year. The proof of residency had therefore expired. I was given an envelope that contained documents from the original Swedish owner. I do not remember all of what was contained in the envelope. It mostly had the necessary forms already signed by the Swedish man, but lacking dates. This was legal. I changed the registration of the motorbike over to myself in Bangkok at the Dept of Land Transport.

I didn't pay an extra "corruption fees" to allow this to happen, it was all legitimate. Because I had all the necessary document, I didn't have any problems. I can't remember what documents were required, but it certainly is possible to change the title over despite the foreigner being out of the country for so long.

I highly suggest getting the bike legal. While you can pay your way out of small problems, if you get in a serious problem (which is definitely possible with a motorbike), things are going to get far more complicated if you are driving an illegitimate vehicle. I fully empathize with someone taking risks because there is no choice, but it sounds like you have a choice here, so I disagree with anyone suggesting that you it's easy enough just to drive the bike around without getting the title changed.

Once again.. you cant give absolutes.. Many land transport offices will not move the bikes ownership over without a current permission to stay.. Expired ones means you dont 'have all the necessary documentation'..

[Khunangkaro]

As long as you have bike plus green book you can drive as long as you change for the yearly sticker which you get after paying yearly tax & mandatory third party insurance.

[wump]

Four years ago I purchased a motorbike that had been owned by a Swedish man who had been out of the country for well over a year. The proof of residency had therefore expired. I was given an envelope that contained documents from the original Swedish owner. I do not remember all of what was contained in the envelope. It mostly had the necessary forms already signed by the Swedish man, but lacking dates. This was legal. I changed the registration of the motorbike over to myself in Bangkok at the Dept of Land Transport.

I am about to sell my motorbike so I am really wondering about this: Is a certificate of residence not needed for a farang seller?

Someone please clarify, I don't want to waste 500 Baht for nothing.

[timmyp]

Four years ago I purchased a motorbike that had been owned by a Swedish man who had been out of the country for well over a year. The proof of residency had therefore expired. I was given an envelope that contained documents from the original Swedish owner. I do not remember all of what was contained in the envelope. It mostly had the necessary forms already signed by the Swedish man, but lacking dates. This was legal. I changed the registration of the motorbike over to myself in Bangkok at the Dept of Land Transport.

I am about to sell my motorbike so I am really wondering about this: Is a certificate of residence not needed for a farang seller?

Someone please clarify, I don't want to waste 500 Baht for nothing.

Yes, you absolutely need a certificate of residence.

If you have immigration send it to you, then it takes a week for the letter to arrive at your apartment. I think it costs around 200 baht, but I'm not sure. If you get if from your embassy, then it will probably cost at least 1500 baht.

[oneday]

My answer would be "no". Every time I have had to buy a bike or car or change a name or remove a name you need:

1. A copy of the falang's passport with a signature, which actually shouldn't be too difficult with scanners and email.

2. The difficult part is getting the "resident certificate" which requires the falang to go to immigration and get it and this certificate is only good for one month. I've never heard that anything other than a "resident certificate" will do the job and I've never been given an alternative.

The OP said 'sell' not buy..

Usually the cert of residence isnt needed for sellers (did one 2 weeks ago) but sometimes if they are being awkward it is..

No, LivingLOS, you are absolutely wrong. If you read my post it doesn't matter if you are selling, buying or changing, adding or removing a name. If there is a falang involved it requires the falang to do the same thing no matter what side of the equation the falang is on. I have done them all and every single time I have had to get a "Resident Certificate" and give them a signed copy of my passport.

You got lucky...that's all I can say.

[chickenrunCM]

Four years ago I purchased a motorbike that had been owned by a Swedish man who had been out of the country for well over a year. The proof of residency had therefore expired. I was given an envelope that contained documents from the original Swedish owner. I do not remember all of what was contained in the envelope. It mostly had the necessary forms already signed by the Swedish man, but lacking dates. This was legal. I changed the registration of the motorbike over to myself in Bangkok at the Dept of Land Transport.

I am about to sell my motorbike so I am really wondering about this: Is a certificate of residence not needed for a farang seller?

Someone please clarify, I don't want to waste 500 Baht for nothing.

Yes, you absolutely need a certificate of residence.

If you have immigration send it to you, then it takes a week for the letter to arrive at your apartment. I think it costs around 200 baht, but I'm not sure. If you get if from your embassy, then it will probably cost at least 1500 baht.

you dont need a certificate of residence if you selling, i just sold 1 bike and we make the transfer in Chiang Mai, you only need copy of passport, copy of visa page (permit of stay) and transfer paper, nothing else from seller.

only foreign buyer need certificate of residence or work permit

[chickenrunCM]

My answer would be "no". Every time I have had to buy a bike or car or change a name or remove a name you need:

1. A copy of the falang's passport with a signature, which actually shouldn't be too difficult with scanners and email.

2. The difficult part is getting the "resident certificate" which requires the falang to go to immigration and get it and this certificate is only good for one month. I've never heard that anything other than a "resident certificate" will do the job and I've never been given an alternative.

The OP said 'sell' not buy..

Usually the cert of residence isnt needed for sellers (did one 2 weeks ago) but sometimes if they are being awkward it is..

No, LivingLOS, you are absolutely wrong. If you read my post it doesn't matter if you are selling, buying or changing, adding or removing a name. If there is a falang involved it requires the falang to do the same thing no matter what side of the equation the falang is on. I have done them all and every single time I have had to get a "Resident Certificate" and give them a signed copy of my passport.

You got lucky...that's all I can say.

you dont need a certificate of residence if you selling, i just sold 1 bike and we make the transfer in Chiang Mai, you only need copy of passport, copy of visa page (permit of stay) and transfer paper, nothing else from seller.

only foreign buyer need certificate of residence or work permit

[zaZa9]

I just sold a bike for a friend who was not in Thailand

He did not need to provide any Resident Certificate

According to the latest rules , what he did need was a photocopy of his current visa - this rule has been around for about 6 months or so apparently - and he had photocopied this stamp ( and signed down bottom in EVERY photocopy ) and it was still current

He had just left early ( before that stamp expired )

Also required were copies of his passport info page , last entry stamp and departure card

The Resident Cert is only required ( in Phuket anyway ) if you have bought a vehicle and wish to put it in your name ( or seeking licenses etc)

So if the ops scooter owner does NOT have a current 'permission to stay' stamp for Thailand , its my opinion he cannot 'legally' sell the bike for the lady

[zaZa9]

Yes , I neglected to mention the two official forms

A sale doc

A Power of Attorney Doc

The owner needs to have signed these

But as has been said , there are "Agencies" that charge well more , but need few documents

I was dumbfounded when using one a few years back when I bought a scooter , and they did a Residents Certificate for me , without even witnessing a Lease Agreement from me!

[timmyp]

My answer would be "no". Every time I have had to buy a bike or car or change a name or remove a name you need:

1. A copy of the falang's passport with a signature, which actually shouldn't be too difficult with scanners and email.

2. The difficult part is getting the "resident certificate" which requires the falang to go to immigration and get it and this certificate is only good for one month. I've never heard that anything other than a "resident certificate" will do the job and I've never been given an alternative.

The OP said 'sell' not buy..

Usually the cert of residence isnt needed for sellers (did one 2 weeks ago) but sometimes if they are being awkward it is..

No, LivingLOS, you are absolutely wrong. If you read my post it doesn't matter if you are selling, buying or changing, adding or removing a name. If there is a falang involved it requires the falang to do the same thing no matter what side of the equation the falang is on. I have done them all and every single time I have had to get a "Resident Certificate" and give them a signed copy of my passport.

You got lucky...that's all I can say.

you dont need a certificate of residence if you selling, i just sold 1 bike and we make the transfer in Chiang Mai, you only need copy of passport, copy of visa page (permit of stay) and transfer paper, nothing else from seller.

only foreign buyer need certificate of residence or work permit

You're right, I read the posting too quickly and thought it was the buyer he was asking about.

I did not need proof of residency from the seller when I bought two motorbikes in Bangkok, but I needed it for myself as the buyer. Sorry for getting that mixed up.

[wump]

Thanks a lot for your help everyone

[DILLIGAD]

You obviously do not have a Work Permit then as that will suffice.

Edited June 14, 2015 by DILLIGAD

[optad]

I just sold a bike for a friend who was not in Thailand

He did not need to provide any Resident Certificate

According to the latest rules , what he did need was a photocopy of his current visa - this rule has been around for about 6 months or so apparently - and he had photocopied this stamp ( and signed down bottom in EVERY photocopy ) and it was still current

He had just left early ( before that stamp expired )

Also required were copies of his passport info page , last entry stamp and departure card

The Resident Cert is only required ( in Phuket anyway ) if you have bought a vehicle and wish to put it in your name ( or seeking licenses etc)

So if the ops scooter owner does NOT have a current 'permission to stay' stamp for Thailand , its my opinion he cannot 'legally' sell the bike for the lady

Question to the above or anyone,

The suggestion emerging is that without appropriate visas property rights are alienable. Is this correct?

It cannot be for so many reasons but would like a more wizened poster to explain.

I understand the swag of other documentation necessary. Indeed, I sold a car, no visa but I had returned on a tourist stamp October 2013, and the sale executed via a dealership no problems, however we did have exceptional relations.

THanks in advance

[LivinLOS]

My answer would be "no". Every time I have had to buy a bike or car or change a name or remove a name you need:

1. A copy of the falang's passport with a signature, which actually shouldn't be too difficult with scanners and email.

2. The difficult part is getting the "resident certificate" which requires the falang to go to immigration and get it and this certificate is only good for one month. I've never heard that anything other than a "resident certificate" will do the job and I've never been given an alternative.

The OP said 'sell' not buy..

Usually the cert of residence isnt needed for sellers (did one 2 weeks ago) but sometimes if they are being awkward it is..

No, LivingLOS, you are absolutely wrong. If you read my post it doesn't matter if you are selling, buying or changing, adding or removing a name. If there is a falang involved it requires the falang to do the same thing no matter what side of the equation the falang is on. I have done them all and every single time I have had to get a "Resident Certificate" and give them a signed copy of my passport.

You got lucky...that's all I can say.

"absolutely wrong" ?? I just sold a vehicle last week.. no residence cert.. How wrong was that ?? Another purchase just before xmas, same..

I have sold vehicles in Phuket, Bangkok Chiang Mai, bought them all over the country (udon Patts etc etc) perhaps >15 vehicles over 15 years.. Once, one time in chiang Mai has the seller needed a residence cert, and that was in part because the boss of the place lost some face and it was a trailer that she didnt know how to handle.

'sometimes' the seller must have a residence cert.. Its intermittent.. Always (in my experience) they want a current permission to stay stamp.

[LivinLOS]

I just sold a bike for a friend who was not in Thailand

He did not need to provide any Resident Certificate

According to the latest rules , what he did need was a photocopy of his current visa - this rule has been around for about 6 months or so apparently - and he had photocopied this stamp ( and signed down bottom in EVERY photocopy ) and it was still current

He had just left early ( before that stamp expired )

Also required were copies of his passport info page , last entry stamp and departure card

The Resident Cert is only required ( in Phuket anyway ) if you have bought a vehicle and wish to put it in your name ( or seeking licenses etc)

So if the ops scooter owner does NOT have a current 'permission to stay' stamp for Thailand , its my opinion he cannot 'legally' sell the bike for the lady

Question to the above or anyone,

The suggestion emerging is that without appropriate visas property rights are alienable. Is this correct?

It cannot be for so many reasons but would like a more wizened poster to explain.

I understand the swag of other documentation necessary. Indeed, I sold a car, no visa but I had returned on a tourist stamp October 2013, and the sale executed via a dealership no problems, however we did have exceptional relations.

THanks in advance

There must be a current permission to stay... Not a current 'visa'.. So even a 30 or 14 day land border entry is enough.

It would seem they want to believe the seller is in country and recently signed the docs.. Despite official statements they will do it otherwise, my experiences say it is very difficult or even impossible to legally get it moved without one.