Four volunteers face arrest for the disappearance of 74 M16 assault rifles in Korat

[Lite Beer]

Four volunteers face arrest for the disappearance of 74 M16 assault rifles in Korat

BANGKOK: -- Four defence volunteers will face criminal charges for the disappearance of 74 M16 assault rifles from the armoury of the border defence volunteer company based in Nakhon Ratchasima province.

Pol Col Somsak Ruekputthi, superintendent of Jor Hor provincial police in Nakhon Ratchasima’s Muang district, said there were 84 M16 assault rifles in the armoury and 75 of them went missing due to shortcomings in the release of the weapons from the armoury.

He disclosed that initial investigation showed that four defence volunteers were responsible for taking the rifles out of the armoury without any written record and state-owned car was used to store the weapons when they were taken out.

The police superintendent said that the four volunteers had been summoned for questioning but none of them were charged pending further investigation.

He assured that the lost guns were not used for insurgency.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/four-volunteers-face-arrest-for-the-disappearance-of-74-m16-assault-rifles-in-korat

-- Thai PBS 2015-06-12

[NeverSure]

"He assured that the lost guns were not used for insurgency."

So they know where they are then. That's a relief.

[surangw]

volunteers have easy access to weapons ?

[Happy Grumpy]

volunteers have easy access to weapons ?

If you zoom in on the security post in the photo.

[NeverSure]

This is outrageous. Those guns are fully automatic "machine gun" assault weapons which can hold either 20 or 30 rounds depending on magazine. It's quick and easy to put in a fresh magazine. With the standard NATO 62 grain 5.56 cartridge they will fire around 700 - 800 rounds per minute. The guns were probably made by Colt in the USA to very high standards. This whole thing is sickening.

There is no excuse to ever, for any reason, lose track of those guns. End of.

[JOC]

volunteers have easy access to weapons ?

Of course not!!

They are patsies for someone a little higher up the food chain................

On the bright side: When they find the weapons, no doubt the hiding place will be filled with red shirt memorabilia and ID cards belonging to members of UDD!!

[NeverSure]

Considering that those guns cost the military around US$100,000 and should be worth a lot more on the black market the motive might be money.

[starky]

Considering that those guns cost the military around US$100,000 and should be worth a lot more on the black market the motive might be money.

not quite unless we are talking about the M4 but the only ones I have seen in Thailand are the garden variety old issue M-16 .... In 2012, the government price of every new U.S. Army M16 was $673. That same year, the estimated cost of the M4 was about $243 more per unit, meaning that the M4 upgrade would cost $916 per carbine. Current estimates of the M4 cost place it at around $1,120 per weapon.

[starky]

and in fact FAS has estimated the replacement cost of an M16A2 at as low as $586 US http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m16.htm so closer to $45000 but still not a figure to thumb your nose at

[NeverSure]

Considering that those guns cost the military around US$100,000 and should be worth a lot more on the black market the motive might be money.

not quite unless we are talking about the M4 but the only ones I have seen in Thailand are the garden variety old issue M-16 .... In 2012, the government price of every new U.S. Army M16 was $673. That same year, the estimated cost of the M4 was about $243 more per unit, meaning that the M4 upgrade would cost $916 per carbine. Current estimates of the M4 cost place it at around $1,120 per weapon.

In the past the M16 was made by Colt at a cost to the US Military of around $1,200. In 2011 Remington won the bid for an eventual 150,000 M4's at a cost of just under $700. The Colts are preferred by most including the Colt AR-15 costing civilians about $1,000.

In 2013, FN won the contract, underbidding everyone. It is a big deal to a company's brand to build the mil-spec guns and this was what they wanted.

If those Thai guns are pre-2011, and being M16's they probably are, they are probably Colt and then would have cost the US Military just shy of $1,200 not counting optics if any. Optics can cost as much as the gun or at least several hundred dollars.

LINK

February 23, 2013

"Remington won the first bid by nearly undercutting Colt’s price per rifle by nearly 50 percent. While Colt M4s cost somewhere around $1,200 to $1,300 dollars, Remington’s contract with the Army put the price per rifle at just $673. By using that as a low-water mark, Colt may be able to adjust their royalty-free price to below what other companies can offer.

That said, being one of the official manufacturers of the Army’s infantry rifle—the contract is not exclusive and the Army can always choose to purchase M4s from Colt if they pick another vendor and feel like spending extra, you know, for the Pony—is worth a lot of commercial value. Any company that can land an M4 contract with the Army is going to look very good in investor and consumer eyes. Who knows how low these companies are willing to go for that."

Edited June 12, 2015 by NeverSure

[NongKhaiKid]

"He assured that the lost guns were not used for insurgency."

So they know where they are then. That's a relief.

They just have to say something don't they ?

Never a question of saying a full statement will be made when the investigation is complete.

[NeverSure]

and in fact FAS has estimated the replacement cost of an M16A2 at as low as $586 US http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m16.htm so closer to $45000 but still not a figure to thumb your nose at

I don't believe their number but FN Corp. is getting down close to that. The Thais surely have earlier versions than 2011 models and probably Colts which cost almost double that. I would far rather have a Colt anything than a Remington or especially FN.

Dated 2012:

"According to the Department of the Army’s Chief of Legislative Liaison, the Army today executed a delivery order to buy 24,000 M4A1s worth $16,163,252.07. The rifles will be made at Remington’s factory in Ilion, N.Y., from the Colt technical data package and will cost about $673.10 a copy. That’s a significantly lower price than the final order of Colt produced M4A1s the government paid $1221 for in a 2010 contract."

LINK

Edited June 12, 2015 by NeverSure

[halloween]

This is outrageous. Those guns are fully automatic "machine gun" assault weapons which can hold either 20 or 30 rounds depending on magazine. It's quick and easy to put in a fresh magazine. With the standard NATO 62 grain 5.56 cartridge they will fire around 700 - 800 rounds per minute. The guns were probably made by Colt in the USA to very high standards. This whole thing is sickening.

There is no excuse to ever, for any reason, lose track of those guns. End of.

No, they won't. The figure quoted is the cyclic rate, and shouldn't be confused with actual capability.

[arthurboy]

And of course the commanding officer and his senior staff officers, especially the one or ones responsible for armoury security, will be subject to a full impartial military police investigation, court martial and subsequent disciplinary action.

I await the outcome with interest...and - no doubt - will be waiting for a very long time.

[FireMedic]

Considering those volunteers can't/won't take a dump without permission, I'm 100% positive they are the middlemen.

[Just1Voice]

So, 4 Volunteers made off with 90% of the armory's weapons, and NO ONE NOTICED?

[Lupatria]

If I steal a candy bar from a 7-eleven, will I be charged for theft or do I get the Houdini bonus for causing a disappearance?

[klauskunkel]

they volunteered to face arrest...

[NeverSure]

This is outrageous. Those guns are fully automatic "machine gun" assault weapons which can hold either 20 or 30 rounds depending on magazine. It's quick and easy to put in a fresh magazine. With the standard NATO 62 grain 5.56 cartridge they will fire around 700 - 800 rounds per minute. The guns were probably made by Colt in the USA to very high standards. This whole thing is sickening.

There is no excuse to ever, for any reason, lose track of those guns. End of.

No, they won't. The figure quoted is the cyclic rate, and shouldn't be confused with actual capability.

You are correct. They will however empty a 30 round mag in fewer than 3 seconds. With M193 ammo, maybe closer to 2 seconds.

[jackanapes]

another case of incompetence if these 4 volunteers have managed to take 74 rifles out of the armory without any written record they could have cleared the armory and although it is stated the weapons were not used in an insurgency they could very well have been. this is an appalling state of affairs

[razer]

Four defence volunteers will face criminal charges for the disappearance of 74 M16 assault rifles from the armoury of the border defence volunteer company

The police superintendent said that the four volunteers had been summoned for questioning but none of them were charged pending further investigation.

............................................... I'm CONFUSED!

[pjmansions]

Think people need to lay off Wikipedia about gun manufacture you are losing the point. Cost should not be a factor these are war weapons and could be used to cause huge loss of life, my concern is not how much it costs to replace them, it's Why the he'll is security so lax when weapons are Involved. I left the army few years back and weapon security was crazy, weapons counted at start of day @

[smedly]

This is outrageous. Those guns are fully automatic "machine gun" assault weapons which can hold either 20 or 30 rounds depending on magazine. It's quick and easy to put in a fresh magazine. With the standard NATO 62 grain 5.56 cartridge they will fire around 700 - 800 rounds per minute. The guns were probably made by Colt in the USA to very high standards. This whole thing is sickening.

There is no excuse to ever, for any reason, lose track of those guns. End of.

there is a lot of missing information in this report

Where are the guns now ?

Why did these four men remove so many weapons ?

What were they being used for ?

were they selling them ? if so to who ?

[billd766]

This is outrageous. Those guns are fully automatic "machine gun" assault weapons which can hold either 20 or 30 rounds depending on magazine. It's quick and easy to put in a fresh magazine. With the standard NATO 62 grain 5.56 cartridge they will fire around 700 - 800 rounds per minute. The guns were probably made by Colt in the USA to very high standards. This whole thing is sickening.

There is no excuse to ever, for any reason, lose track of those guns. End of.

No, they won't. The figure quoted is the cyclic rate, and shouldn't be confused with actual capability.

To reach the 700 rounds per minute using a 30 round magazine the operator would need to replace the magazine 24 times in a minute and be very lucky not to get a jam due to excessive heat. If the operator is firing at a target he will have to bring the gun down to change the magazine and up again to the target.

24 magazines in a minute is impossible to do.

[casualbiker]

This is outrageous. Those guns are fully automatic "machine gun" assault weapons which can hold either 20 or 30 rounds depending on magazine. It's quick and easy to put in a fresh magazine. With the standard NATO 62 grain 5.56 cartridge they will fire around 700 - 800 rounds per minute. The guns were probably made by Colt in the USA to very high standards. This whole thing is sickening.

There is no excuse to ever, for any reason, lose track of those guns. End of.

No, they won't. The figure quoted is the cyclic rate, and shouldn't be confused with actual capability.

To reach the 700 rounds per minute using a 30 round magazine the operator would need to replace the magazine 24 times in a minute and be very lucky not to get a jam due to excessive heat. If the operator is firing at a target he will have to bring the gun down to change the magazine and up again to the target.

24 magazines in a minute is impossible to do.

Whichever way you look at it.. You wouldn't really like to be facing one would you? I know I wouldn't!

[NCC1701A]

i will stick with my AK... it never jams...

[NeverSure]

To reach the 700 rounds per minute using a 30 round magazine the operator would need to replace the magazine 24 times in a minute and be very lucky not to get a jam due to excessive heat. If the operator is firing at a target he will have to bring the gun down to change the magazine and up again to the target.

24 magazines in a minute is impossible to do.

We're missing the point here. I made a comment on behalf of some who might not know that these guns have a very rapid rate of fire in full auto mode. They will unload a 30 round magazine in less than three seconds regardless of whether it's good for the gun or the shooter or the target.

Yes I know the cyclic rate of fire, depending on cartridge is between about 800 and 900 rounds per minute but it would get too hot and probably melt the barrel and there wouldn't be time to keep stuffing fresh 30 round mags in it.

It will still, in full auto mode, fire 30 rounds from one magazine in less than 3 seconds, devastating a target.

[Srikcir]

This is outrageous. Those guns are fully automatic "machine gun" assault weapons which can hold either 20 or 30 rounds depending on magazine. It's quick and easy to put in a fresh magazine. With the standard NATO 62 grain 5.56 cartridge they will fire around 700 - 800 rounds per minute. The guns were probably made by Colt in the USA to very high standards. This whole thing is sickening.

There is no excuse to ever, for any reason, lose track of those guns. End of.

there is a lot of missing information in this report

Where are the guns now ?

Why did these four men remove so many weapons ?

What were they being used for ?

were they selling them ? if so to who ?

Let's add another question:

Why are civilian volunteers even allowed weapon armories much less able to remove weapons without military authority?

[MaxYakov]

This is outrageous. Those guns are fully automatic "machine gun" assault weapons which can hold either 20 or 30 rounds depending on magazine. It's quick and easy to put in a fresh magazine. With the standard NATO 62 grain 5.56 cartridge they will fire around 700 - 800 rounds per minute. The guns were probably made by Colt in the USA to very high standards. This whole thing is sickening.

There is no excuse to ever, for any reason, lose track of those guns. End of.

There's always an excuse in Thailand.

[maidee]

so the guns are used for other criminal activities? as long as it is not terrorism it is ok ?