cumgranosalum Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 There must be some research into how the Thai lettering system affects reading ages....... my gut feeling is that in general Thai people although "literate" by and large are not very good readers and the flow of information from the outside world is slowed by this system too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 ''As for personnel development, the government will launch more training for school directors, educators and educational supervisors to enhance their abilities.'' More team building weekends for the staff......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby nz Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 What pack of loonies posting on here, but they are the usual anti-everything loonies. Don't you think there are concerned people out there who know what students "Need" not what they want. No need to ask students who haven't had the experience to know what they need. There are plenty of Thais who have been educated overseas and have first hand experience of good education systems, the problem has been getting those in authority to listen to them. Now things are under new management and I read that those who know are being listened to. However we wait to see exactly what comes out of this as there will be resistance to any change from the education establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmyp Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 'The government is urging schools to revive the spelling system ...' Revive which spelling system, precisely? I'm just guessing, but there was some simplification to how Thai writing is taught in recent years. People who learned in the older/traditional system think the changes are silly. I would give some examples, but we can't write in Thai on the site, and it wouldn't make sense if you don't already write. I'll venture a guess that reviving the spelling system means teaching the alphabet how it used to be taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausbeat999 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I have been looking at this visa for 2years now , never have commented on anything ,but this topic is very serious for this country and I want a little input . their carefree nature and politeness in wonderful but I'm afraid they will miss out on companies investing in this country and if they do they will be employing a vast number of overseas employees .Why because of english or their lack of it . I have a step daughter here and she went to nursing school and completed everything to good standard .she ended up doing private work for better money but then fell pregnant to her now husband .so she gave up work and wanted me to build a clinic for her or pharmacy .my girl said thats what she wanted all along .So I did ,and it was finished around the time she had the baby.the clinic was opened intermittantly due to the circumstances of the baby which was fine .but then she and my girl found out that the daughter has to learn up as they say .so she studied for great period of time ,then one day she got all dressed up and drove 1 hour to the place of the exam. well she was back in the afternoon looking forlorn , my girl asked her what the problem was and she said most of the exam was in english,as you know a great percentage of medicines are still in english in Thailand .there I thought this was my opportunity ,I have been telling her for 3 years that she has to learn english and her stubbornness was quite rude , my girl knows a good bit of english but the daughter refuses ,Myself ,well I now a fair bit of thai and have been learning constantly .so back to the clinic ,well she sort of chucked the towel in and moved out and went and lived with the son inlaws family ,so what a waist of money, resources , time and of course the sorrow for my girl. she has apologised that many times it's not funny .anyway over that now . the point of education , I observed something interesting ,.I gave the sister inlaw a sentence of about 30 words to read and she is a school teacher .it took her at least 3 to 4 times as long to read the sentence than in english . my girl could read the english quicker .they need to revamp there're language like the Chinese did back in the 1980's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmyp Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 the point of education , I observed something interesting ,.I gave the sister inlaw a sentence of about 30 words to read and she is a school teacher .it took her at least 3 to 4 times as long to read the sentence than in english . my girl could read the english quicker .they need to revamp there're language like the Chinese did back in the 1980's You wrote it in Thai and she had trouble reading it? And what is the reason you don't think your level of Thai was the problem? The problem here is not that the written Thai language is so hard, and only monolingual English speakers are spouting such crap. BTW, your rambling, garbled post suggests to this entire forum that you aren't in any position to make any comments about literacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Every time I log on to Thai Visa there is yet another pronouncement from the Junta.....no consultation, no research no planned approach; just a nape-of-the-neck reaction to some misinformed perception about "what is wrong these days". It gets really tiresome after a while,. Edited June 13, 2015 by cumgranosalum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 There seems to be an idea here that "students' needs" mean the needs as voiced by the students? whereas that is laudable to some extent - most UK Universites have students on the boards of study etc...I fail to see how this would apply to Kindergarten.... i guess is that someone on high has already decided what students needs are and they will be foisted upon educational; establishments for a couple of years until they can be completely ignored by those who know better. "student needs" are not something that can be defined by some top-down decision--making process....it is certainly not as simple as saying "we need more IT engineers and then forcing hundreds of students through course that turn out to be totally inappropriate for the country's needs in 5 years time. The usually seems to no distinction made between "students needs" and "what we think the county needs" education is not just training, it is equipping people with the tools to get through life and quite probably making several career changes on the way.....by all means train someone as a plumber, but give them the critical abilities to adapt and run a clothes shop or manage an office if the need should arise........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwyn Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Education and student needs should not be used in the same sentence. Students don't have a clue what they need as far as education goes. It is up to the educated adults to determine advancement and education standards that not only prepares them for the world but also to prepare them for a University and for their futures in the modern workforce. Discipline in moderation and better study habits as well as curriculum also needs to be changed. Their "no fail" system needs to be scrapped and students need to be taught to be responsible for their learning. so where does it say they will be asking the students what their needs are? They did this already, the results were predictably obvious/ludicrous. Lets consider the same kind of question using aviation travel as a hypothetical simile Lets ask the passengers what improvements they want to see on the aircraft/flights. They will tell you... They want a swimming pool in the isles, more free booze, bunk beds and flights which last 20 minutes with no queues. Why not ask experts in education, don't ask the kids, after all 1/3 of them are illiterate. So where did it say in the post they will be asking or consulting the kids, this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwyn Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 'The government is urging schools to revive the spelling system ...' Revive which spelling system, precisely? Probably the one that teaches them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manbing Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Education and student needs should not be used in the same sentence. Students don't have a clue what they need as far as education goes. It is up to the educated adults to determine advancement and education standards that not only prepares them for the world but also to prepare them for a University and for their futures in the modern workforce. Discipline in moderation and better study habits as well as curriculum also needs to be changed. Their "no fail" system needs to be scrapped and students need to be taught to be responsible for their learning.so where does it say they will be asking the students what their needs are? They did this already, the results were predictably obvious/ludicrous. Lets consider the same kind of question using aviation travel as a hypothetical simile Lets ask the passengers what improvements they want to see on the aircraft/flights. They will tell you... They want a swimming pool in the isles, more free booze, bunk beds and flights which last 20 minutes with no queues. Why not ask experts in education, don't ask the kids, after all 1/3 of them are illiterate. So where did it say in the post they will be asking or consulting the kids, this time? It doesn't, but your point was also made in the post you quoted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Free phones and roll-up beds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwyn Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 what might help with the kids education is giving them ALL a chance to complete it. Kids are dropping out of school at 11 and 12 because their parents cannot afford the books, uniforms and so on and need the kids to help with the work... Make education available for the poor, or kids of the poor, and the rich kids who's parents are buying them the university place will have a bit of competition from kids who want to learn and are happy to learn - not just get a paper bought for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmyp Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 There must be some research into how the Thai lettering system affects reading ages....... my gut feeling is that in general Thai people although "literate" by and large are not very good readers and the flow of information from the outside world is slowed by this system too. It's got nothing to do with the lettering system. Japanese has a way higher learning curve than Thai, and they aren't suffering from delayed literacy (i.e., not affecting reading ages). It continues to boggle my mind how some farangs' inability to learn Thai leads them to blame the language for being too hard, then think there are further implications about the society because of it. The education system and cultural attitude towards education is the problem in Thailand, not the all those squiggly letters you find so hard to read that represent mysterious sounds you can't make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeryble Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 There must be some research into how the Thai lettering system affects reading ages....... my gut feeling is that in general Thai people although "literate" by and large are not very good readers and the flow of information from the outside world is slowed by this system too. It's got nothing to do with the lettering system. Japanese has a way higher learning curve than Thai, and they aren't suffering from delayed literacy . Don't the Japanese have some way of learning the alphabet or reading musically which makes it very fast? (Hope it's not maths and I'm making a chump of myself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 There must be some research into how the Thai lettering system affects reading ages....... my gut feeling is that in general Thai people although "literate" by and large are not very good readers and the flow of information from the outside world is slowed by this system too. It's got nothing to do with the lettering system. Japanese has a way higher learning curve than Thai, and they aren't suffering from delayed literacy (i.e., not affecting reading ages). It continues to boggle my mind how some farangs' inability to learn Thai leads them to blame the language for being too hard, then think there are further implications about the society because of it. The education system and cultural attitude towards education is the problem in Thailand, not the all those squiggly letters you find so hard to read that represent mysterious sounds you can't make. actually japan has had huge problems with their writing system - especially when it comes to IT - and have addressed it by insisting on English is certain fields. in fact Japanese has 3 scripts and none are suitable for things such as IT. The next problem is thet Thai script is a "single invention" rather than a system that has evolved - it also has evolved without good punctuation or paragraphing - that has been introduced from western script........the reading problems of Thai are not the same as those in Japanese - they are completely different systems. so the problems of Thai script are particular to Thai scritp ( and it's relatives) but not comparable with Japanese. [Funny how some farang just think all squiggly "foreign writing" is inherently the same?] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Great to hear children will go back to the good old fashioned education policy of learning to spell and read. Without that, forget about all the rest. As for the English, I hope they will make it easier for native speakers to teach here legally. Kudos for the efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostmebike Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Wonder if part of this plan is to make decent, committed, qualified, experienced, foreign teacher`s working lives even more difficult than they are now??? From what I`ve seen, Thai teachers need ongoing evaluations with on job training (a lot of these teachers can`t even use a computer!!!) and school administrations need to be scrutinized at all times to make sure that schools are just about the kids and not the demi-gods that work there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Great to hear children will go back to the good old fashioned education policy of learning to spell and read. Without that, forget about all the rest. As for the English, I hope they will make it easier for native speakers to teach here legally. Kudos for the efforts. yeah ..and learning by rote....i expect you'd like to see them bring back caning...after all it never did you any harm...did it, now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim walker Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The most urgent mission for the junta is to raise the literacy rate among children some wonderful talking and planning just like the flood elevation and the daily road carnage Junta leaders all speak and no action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmyp Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 There must be some research into how the Thai lettering system affects reading ages....... my gut feeling is that in general Thai people although "literate" by and large are not very good readers and the flow of information from the outside world is slowed by this system too. It's got nothing to do with the lettering system. Japanese has a way higher learning curve than Thai, and they aren't suffering from delayed literacy (i.e., not affecting reading ages). It continues to boggle my mind how some farangs' inability to learn Thai leads them to blame the language for being too hard, then think there are further implications about the society because of it. The education system and cultural attitude towards education is the problem in Thailand, not the all those squiggly letters you find so hard to read that represent mysterious sounds you can't make. actually japan has had huge problems with their writing system - especially when it comes to IT - and have addressed it by insisting on English is certain fields. in fact Japanese has 3 scripts and none are suitable for things such as IT. The next problem is thet Thai script is a "single invention" rather than a system that has evolved - it also has evolved without good punctuation or paragraphing - that has been introduced from western script........the reading problems of Thai are not the same as those in Japanese - they are completely different systems. so the problems of Thai script are particular to Thai scritp ( and it's relatives) but not comparable with Japanese. [Funny how some farang just think all squiggly "foreign writing" is inherently the same?] Wow are you talking out of your a$$ I have an M.A. in linguistics specializing in Japanese phonetics, I am a certified Japanese interpreter, and I work as a Japanese translator. PM me if you want my credentials, but you really made a retarded assumption. I don't even know where to address your ignorance about Japanese and Thai, but thanks for demonstrating how little you know. There is no problem inherent in the Thai script, the problem is the education system. I used Japanese as a comparison. Thanks for the incredibly insightful comment that they are two different scripts. About Japanese and IT: Not suitable for IT? Not a clue where you get that from. My operating system and all software is in Japanese, and the IT translation that I do has no problem handling the Japanese script. There were some compatibility problems up until the late 90s, but that has been worked out. >[Funny how some farang just think all squiggly "foreign writing" is inherently the same?] Yup, sad that they're squiggles to you, and you decide that other people must be living in your same box of ignorance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy360 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Do students know what their needs are ? Students haven't been taught to know their needs, neither by the schools or their parents. So "reform" from the government is just a meaningless "buzz" word. We hear this "buzz" word used every few months, with no substance whatsoever. Student needs does not necessarily mean what the student believes he needs. Rather it can mean what the student needs to succeed in life. My experience has been that children want to learn and are eager to do so in the right environment. Trade schools such as vehicle repair and building trades are arenas that boys tend to be eager to learn. Education is the key to success and I believe any strive made towards bettering the education system not only in Thailand, but the rest of the world should be applauded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmyp Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 There must be some research into how the Thai lettering system affects reading ages....... my gut feeling is that in general Thai people although "literate" by and large are not very good readers and the flow of information from the outside world is slowed by this system too. It's got nothing to do with the lettering system. Japanese has a way higher learning curve than Thai, and they aren't suffering from delayed literacy . Don't the Japanese have some way of learning the alphabet or reading musically which makes it very fast? (Hope it's not maths and I'm making a chump of myself) There are some songs, but nothing any different from the kaw kay khaw khay song Thai kids learn (no comments on the transliteration please, I'd have written it in Thai if I were permitted to). Learning to read and write in Japanese is just alot of practice. Some other guy made a comment about there being two alphabets, which technically there are, but it's pretty much the same as saying English has two alphabets, the CAPITAL LETTER alphabet and small letter alphabet. It's interesting that we categorize that as a single alphabet with two ways of writing a sound, and Japanese counts theirs as two different alphabets, but whatever. The rough part of learning Japanese is the kanji, i..e, the Chinese characters. To learn it, kids just gotta put in the time. It's not as hard as it seems to most people, but it takes a while. It has its advantages in the end, such as technical vocabulary getting much easier to read. To compare this to English, it would be like having a mastery of Latin and Greek roots, and then studying medicine. The terms would be much easier. The point in mentioning this is that the writing system in Japanese is alot of work, but the education system demands that the kids do it. They have some cute songs and activities to help kids along the way, but it's still alot of work. And there isn't a literacy problem in Japan (there are illiterate people there, I've met some, but the writing system isn't holding the country back). The same goes for Thailand. Only people who don't read Thai are blaming the Thai script. They might as well blame spicy food. "The food is too spicy for me, so clearly it keeps education levels low." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinoza Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Maybe they should get rid of their spelling system and adopt an easier alphabet? Then they should have time to teach children something about the world we live in? You're really an insightful genius. These backwards people should throw out their ridiculous scribbles and get a proper, sensibly logical script like English that is so much easier to read. No, their nationalism forbid it. It would be lese majeste against a king from the past. Thats what holding Thailand back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I thought that teaching students Prayut's 12 Values is all they needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotsdermatter Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Many so called developed countries, including Canada, U.K., and U.S.A., also have a no fail education system, so how much better are their students than the Thai students? I am now retired in Canada, and there is an untold number of illiterate people living here, after going through the education system and failing all grades, as they are allowed to graduate that way. (They cannot get into universities or Community Colleges though as they do not qualify academically.) By the way, I taught psychology (now a retired clinical psychologist), cookery, and English for 3 years in Korea, some 16-17 years in Thailand, and 3 years in China. While the education system in Thailand could, and should, be improved, all I read, most of the time, is BRING IN EDUCATORS FROM OUTSIDE to revamp the system and make it better. Also, strange that most who post make vague references to ways to improve the education of Thai students but do nothing about it. I have done that, including making proposals at schools and universities I worked at, and to a few Ministers of Education and some ideas have been implemented. As for changed the Thai alphabet, as suggested by one person, how many are aware that the Thai language stems from Pali, a very old language system, which is used extensively as the base for languages, in some areas of the Far East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Look out another load of iPads from China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starky Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 they NEED to learn maths, history, geography and maybe a little science would be a good start. Then they can move on to the really hard stuff like studying enough so that you actually get a passing grade instead of automatically being promoted to the next grade regardless of your comprehension and basic knowledge of the subjects you are supposedly learning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selftaopath Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 OMG. Will we EVER hear what HAS been done/accomplished/improved upon? Is it ALWAY what we plan on doing/suggested/ set to do/ will initiate etc. FOREVER? Bloody show us stop telling us all the ideas that NEVER materialize of see any FOLLOW UP. BLOODY f in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlyai Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Students in Thailand would never know what are their needs because Thai education never produce thinking students, everyone is only good in following instructions! This is not true in all cases. In the international schools that I taught in, students were taught to think and question as well. The teacher has a great bearing on this. In the Thai, Indonesian, and Chinease schools that I have taught in, the teacher had a great influence on helping producing 'thinking' students. In the jointly run (Thai and Farang), Technical and Further Education centre that I was the Engineering Manager, teacher, bottle washer etc, students learnt to think. Most of them graduated with a diploma and are very productive now. In summary, the teacher is a very big influence on what type of students are produced. To reform the education system, you need to spend a lot of money and resources and really train the teachers and equip them with the skills, and knowledge to produce 'thinking' students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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