Mass shooting at Charleston church in South Carolina leaves 9 dead

[Chicog]

It's not the only channel I watch Chuck.

But it is, by a significant margin, the absolute worst.

Plus I must bring down the average viewing age significantly.

As well as the average IQ?

Sorry, I don't believe that is possible.

[JakeSully]

What got OJ acquited was when Johnny Cochran said..."If they don't fit, you must acquit".

The acquital had nothing to do with some Mark Furman comment.

That and the fact Kato Kaelin was an idiot and an unreliable witness. He single handedly could have convicted him if Marcia Clark realized that leather tends to shrink. Should have never made him wear it.

[Chicog]

Fox is fun and has some hotties. Seriously, if you cannot weed through their bs propaganda and enjoy it for what it is, then the problem resides with you. Fox has actually been very aggressive against the cops that keep popping up in the news and against nut bags like this guy. I also watch CNN and think people like Anderson Cooper are a bit more comical than some of the Fox news bs. The fact is, they are all bs. Its TV. Watch for enjoyment, but don't get caught up in everything you hear.

Yes we have too many nutters going on shooting rampages. I have always been for stricter gun laws, background checks and closing the gun show loop holes. That said, these incidents are very few and far in between when dealing with the total population and the vast majority of people in the US are extremely safe. No need to go absolutely bizarre about the US, guns or gun laws because some nimrod, mental midget when and committed a horrendous act. Hopefully, the father or whoever gave him the gun will get prosecuted and sued civilly so there is some potential chilling effect in the future.

It's no coincidence that in all the black bashing they've indulged in for months, one of their regular contributors has been one Mark Furman. Yes, the same Mark Furman that created reasonable doubt for OJ Simpson with his memorable "You can take one of these niggers, drag 'em into the alley and beat the shit out of them and kick them. You can see them twitch. It really relieves your tension."

Probably gets all those racist old Fox News coffin dodgers off the sofa for a quick fist pump.

What got OJ acquited was when Johnny Cochran said..."If they don't fit, you must acquit".

The acquital had nothing to do with some Mark Furman comment.

I don't wish to stray too far off topic, but Furman was the one that allegedly found the glove that "didn't fit".

And the defence insinuated that he planted it because he hated blacks so much.

Lack of trust in that evidence created reasonable doubt.

So his racism had everything to do with Simpson's acquittal.

But of course he's a hero to the Fox klan.

I doubt they'll wheel him out again until this has died down though.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Chicog

[Gecko123]

There are some interesting parallels between the shooter and Charles Manson.

Both:

came from the South

were of slight build

dropped out of school early

came from broken homes and suffered from poor parenting

had difficulty finding employment

developed intense racial hatred at an early age

were socially maladjusted

had a fascination with guns

committed crimes which deeply shocked America and the rest of the world, so much so that they are considered "demonic" in nature.

Many people forget that the Tate-LaBianca murders were committed by Manson and his followers in the hopes of triggering a race war between whites and blacks.

The shooter has now stated that he hoped to "spark up a race war," a very striking similarity to Manson's motives.

[Somtamnication]

America, brace yourself. Land of the copy cats. Sigh

[watcharacters]

Why is this in a bold RED header?

[JakeSully]

Why is this in a bold RED header?

Because it's proof there's White Right Wing Racists armed with guns who commit terrorist attacks in the USA.

[stevenl]

Why is this in a bold RED header?

Because it was breaking news. Agree with you that by now it could be a standard header.

[MaxYakov]

There are some interesting parallels between the shooter and Charles Manson.

Both:

came from the South

were of slight build

dropped out of school early

came from broken homes and suffered from poor parenting

had difficulty finding employment

developed intense racial hatred at an early age

were socially maladjusted

had a fascination with guns

committed crimes which deeply shocked America and the rest of the world, so much so that they are considered "demonic" in nature.

Many people forget that the Tate-LaBianca murders were committed by Manson and his followers in the hopes of triggering a race war between whites and blacks.

The shooter has now stated that he hoped to "spark up a race war," a very striking similarity to Manson's motives.

Helter Skelter

It appears that there are far more differences between Manson and Roof than similarities:

Manson was not convicted of personally murdering anyone but as one of conspiracy

Had whites murdered rather than personally murdering blacks to foment "Helter Skelter"

Was an ex-convict who had spent half his life in correctional institutions

And bad been a singer-songwriter on the fringe of the LA music industry

Was raised in Ohio, Indiana and West Virginia

And was living in a series of hotels with his mother when eight

Committed armed robbery and sent to Indiana Boy's School when 13

Had a lot more charisma, charm and experience

So was able to control a group of followers

Who murdered several more people at multiple locations

By his followers who were mostly female

Which probably got him laid a lot more than Roof

Who was a "loner"

I'm wondering if Dylann Roof even has/had knowledge of Charles Manson

Edited June 20, 2015 by MaxYakov

[sdanielmcev]

I always admit when I am wrong. Thing is there is still no credible evidence, yet, that he said either of those things. Racism is systemic, not random. And once again a certain poster has been caught lying to try to force his views on others.

[sdanielmcev]

There are some interesting parallels between the shooter and Charles Manson.

Both:

came from the South

were of slight build

dropped out of school early

came from broken homes and suffered from poor parenting

had difficulty finding employment

developed intense racial hatred at an early age

were socially maladjusted

had a fascination with guns

committed crimes which deeply shocked America and the rest of the world, so much so that they are considered "demonic" in nature.

Many people forget that the Tate-LaBianca murders were committed by Manson and his followers in the hopes of triggering a race war between whites and blacks.

The shooter has now stated that he hoped to "spark up a race war," a very striking similarity to Manson's motives.

Nope. He hasn't, yet said anything as of my writing this. A drinking buddy claims this. Try to wait for real evidence.

[Gecko123]

There are some interesting parallels between the shooter and Charles Manson.

Both:

came from the South

were of slight build

dropped out of school early

came from broken homes and suffered from poor parenting

had difficulty finding employment

developed intense racial hatred at an early age

were socially maladjusted

had a fascination with guns

committed crimes which deeply shocked America and the rest of the world, so much so that they are considered "demonic" in nature.

Many people forget that the Tate-LaBianca murders were committed by Manson and his followers in the hopes of triggering a race war between whites and blacks.

The shooter has now stated that he hoped to "spark up a race war," a very striking similarity to Manson's motives.

Nope. He hasn't, yet said anything as of my writing this. A drinking buddy claims this. Try to wait for real evidence.

Per CNN's website this morning:

Roof admits he shot and killed the people he'd sat with for Bible study at the historically black church, two law enforcement officials said.

But why? To start a race war.

That's what Roof told investigators, according to one of the officials.

[sdanielmcev]

There are some interesting parallels between the shooter and Charles Manson.

Both:

came from the South

were of slight build

dropped out of school early

came from broken homes and suffered from poor parenting

had difficulty finding employment

developed intense racial hatred at an early age

were socially maladjusted

had a fascination with guns

committed crimes which deeply shocked America and the rest of the world, so much so that they are considered "demonic" in nature.

Many people forget that the Tate-LaBianca murders were committed by Manson and his followers in the hopes of triggering a race war between whites and blacks.

The shooter has now stated that he hoped to "spark up a race war," a very striking similarity to Manson's motives.

Nope. He hasn't, yet said anything as of my writing this. A drinking buddy claims this. Try to wait for real evidence.

Per CNN's website this morning:

Roof admits he shot and killed the people he'd sat with for Bible study at the historically black church, two law enforcement officials said.

But why? To start a race war.

That's what Roof told investigators, according to one of the officials.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-suspect/

Here ya go. Doesn't say that. Told his friend, not investigators. If he said that, okay. But being the son of a criminal defense attorney, that ain't evidence.

[Gecko123]

There are some interesting parallels between the shooter and Charles Manson.

Both:

came from the South

were of slight build

dropped out of school early

came from broken homes and suffered from poor parenting

had difficulty finding employment

developed intense racial hatred at an early age

were socially maladjusted

had a fascination with guns

committed crimes which deeply shocked America and the rest of the world, so much so that they are considered "demonic" in nature.

Many people forget that the Tate-LaBianca murders were committed by Manson and his followers in the hopes of triggering a race war between whites and blacks.

The shooter has now stated that he hoped to "spark up a race war," a very striking similarity to Manson's motives.

Helter Skelter

It appears that there are far more differences between Manson and Roof than similarities:

Manson was not convicted of personally murdering anyone but as one of conspiracy

Had whites murdered rather than personally murdering blacks to foment "Helter Skelter"

Was an ex-convict who had spent half his life in correctional institutions

And bad been a singer-songwriter on the fringe of the LA music industry

Was raised in Ohio, Indiana and West Virginia

And was living in a series of hotels with his mother when eight

Committed armed robbery and sent to Indiana Boy's School when 13

Had a lot more charisma, charm and experience

So was able to control a group of followers

Who murdered several more people at multiple locations

By his followers who were mostly female

Which probably got him laid a lot more than Roof

Who was a "loner"

I'm wondering if Dylann Roof even has/had knowledge of Charles Manson

Just to be clear, I never intended to suggest that Roof was "inspired" by Manson.

Despite the differences you correctly point out, the fact remains that both participated in homicides which had as their primary motive to spark a race war.

I find that similarity quite striking.

EDIT: sdanielmcev: Check the CNN website again. The page you quoted was from yesterday. The page I quoted was from a few moments ago.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Gecko123

[Suradit69]

And the NRA explains it all

NRA board member Charles Cotton blamed Clementa Pinckney, a victim of the shooting at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, for his own death. He also blamed Pinckney, the pastor of Emanuel AME and a state senator, for the deaths of the other eight people killed.

As a state senator, Pinckney supported tougher gun regulations and opposed a bill that would have allowed people to carry concealed guns in churches. On TexasCHLForum.com, a message board, Cotton wrote that “Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead. Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.”

[slipperylobster]

RIP...

Another sad day for America.

Walk into a Church and start shooting, almost certainly none of the victims had a gun in church to be able to defend themselves.

He picked soft targets.....did not even had the balls to finish himself off.

[Suradit69]

People on this website asking why this is not called a terrorist attack. Seems a pertinent question by many.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/91193-reactions-to-charleston-church-shooting-show-that-an-attack-like-this-is-an-attack-on-us

Lindsey Graham seems to think the Boston Bombing and the Charleston shooting are different. I wonder why?

Muslim in Bostton:

In response to the Boston bombing of 2013, Senator Lindsey Graham demanded that the government do everything it could to learn from the attack and prevent future attacks.

This man, in my view, should be designated as a potential enemy combatant and we should be allowed to question him for intelligence gathering purposes to find out about future attacks and terrorist organizations that may exist that he has knowledge of, and that evidence cannot be used against him in trial. That evidence is used to protect us as a nation.

White "Christian" in Charleston:

Graham, who is on his way to Charleston, said his niece did not recall Roof making any statements that were related to race.

“I just think he was one of these whacked out kids. I don’t think it’s anything broader than that,” Graham said. “It’s about a young man who is obviously twisted.”

But

Roof allegedly said “You rape our women and are taking over our country and you have to go.”

Graham, while eager to tackle Islamic extremism, appears much less focused on terrorism motivated by white supremacy, even in his home state

.http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/18/3671525/wildly-different-ways-one-senator-responds-terrorism-boston-versus-charleston/

Edited June 20, 2015 by Suradit69

[MaxYakov]

There are some interesting parallels between the shooter and Charles Manson.

Both:

came from the South

were of slight build

dropped out of school early

came from broken homes and suffered from poor parenting

had difficulty finding employment

developed intense racial hatred at an early age

were socially maladjusted

had a fascination with guns

committed crimes which deeply shocked America and the rest of the world, so much so that they are considered "demonic" in nature.

Many people forget that the Tate-LaBianca murders were committed by Manson and his followers in the hopes of triggering a race war between whites and blacks.

The shooter has now stated that he hoped to "spark up a race war," a very striking similarity to Manson's motives.

Helter Skelter

It appears that there are far more differences between Manson and Roof than similarities:

Manson was not convicted of personally murdering anyone but as one of conspiracy

Had whites murdered rather than personally murdering blacks to foment "Helter Skelter"

Was an ex-convict who had spent half his life in correctional institutions

And bad been a singer-songwriter on the fringe of the LA music industry

Was raised in Ohio, Indiana and West Virginia

And was living in a series of hotels with his mother when eight

Committed armed robbery and sent to Indiana Boy's School when 13

Had a lot more charisma, charm and experience

So was able to control a group of followers

Who murdered several more people at multiple locations

By his followers who were mostly female

Which probably got him laid a lot more than Roof

Who was a "loner"

I'm wondering if Dylann Roof even has/had knowledge of Charles Manson

Just to be clear, I never intended to suggest that Roof was "inspired" by Manson.

Despite the differences you correctly point out, the fact remains that both participated in homicides which had as their primary motive to spark a race war.

I find that similarity quite striking.

EDIT: sdanielmcev: Check the CNN website again. The page you quoted was from yesterday. The page I quoted was from a few moments ago.

I agree with you and I'm sure you'd agree that they are both murderous psychopaths to do so - the only really significant similarity, AFAIC.

[NeverSure]

And the NRA explains it all

NRA board member Charles Cotton blamed Clementa Pinckney, a victim of the shooting at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, for his own death. He also blamed Pinckney, the pastor of Emanuel AME and a state senator, for the deaths of the other eight people killed.

As a state senator, Pinckney supported tougher gun regulations and opposed a bill that would have allowed people to carry concealed guns in churches. On TexasCHLForum.com, a message board, Cotton wrote that “Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead. Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.”

He has a point. These killers almost always choose soft targets where guns aren't allowed. The shooters of course don't follow that law. The shooters go after innocent, trusting people in schools or this or...

[jazzyfrosty]

"Most of the terrorist activity in the U.S. in recent years has has come not from Muslims, but from radical Christianists, white supremacists and far-right militia groups."

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

[sdanielmcev]

@gecko123 mine said 10:12 Eatern time. About 40 minutes ago. Please show me your updated.

[simple1]

"Most of the terrorist activity in the U.S. in recent years has has come not from Muslims, but from radical Christianists, white supremacists and far-right militia groups."

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

New American Foundation states in 2013 there were more killings in the USA by white supremacists than those affiliated to Islamic extremism

[Gecko123]

@gecko123 mine said 10:12 Eatern time. About 40 minutes ago. Please show me your updated.

http://edition.cnn.com

it's in the headline banner story on the home page of cnn.com about halfway down the article.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Gecko123

[JDGRUEN]

There is more than ample evidence of the killer's extremist racism. His appearance is interesting. Kind of a slight boy. Not scary but perhaps creepy. Him without the gun ... no power.

In most of these shootings - the most common characteristic of the perpetrators is mental disturbance - they were/are on psychologically mind altering prescriptions drugs (for a reason). They may have just changed drugs or increased or decreased the dosage, or had just gotten off the drugs (against the advice not to) or were mixing and matching drugs against all advice. These nutcases were most all ne'er-do-wells, not socially integrated, more often loners living in a fantasy world (often in their parents basement) - if not outright delusional.

Calling this current nutcase a racist - while technically accurate - it is only a surface manifestation of his psychological derangement. These nutcases are killers not just because some idiot mother or father allowed then access to a gun or even gave them a gun... they became killers due to a flawed and failed system in America that REFUSES to confine sick minded people mostly do to Political Correctness and fear of legal backlash for attempting to have them confined in a mental institution. The current American system of "We can't say that" assure that nutcase will appear and do damage - maiming and killing - when they - in their deranged way - take action to become noticed and 'important' for the first time in their miserable lives.

Parents of these mentally disturbed people remind me of Pit Bull Dog owners - he would never do anything like that -- he is such a sweet fellow - as animal control hauls the Pit Bull off in a locked truck for ripping the face of a child or some older neighbor. Willful Blindness and Denial on the part of the family - the school teachers and administrators and juvenile authorities. And the same Willful Blindness and Denial on the part of state legislatures for not creating laws that allow forced confinement and treatment over a long term for people who show obvious signs of future violent behavior. It can be spotted, it can be measured - the violent potential of disaffected future sociopaths can be identified and dealt with - BUT NO The American society cannot 'Say That' - IT IS JUDGMENTAL... it will hurt his feelings, it will shunt his future life ...

All the knee jerk Control Freaks in America can say and do is tell 100 million law abiding Americans - 'We are going to take your guns' - but cannot tell 10,000 nuttier than a fruit cake men with childlike minds that 'You Can't Do That' ... we are going to put you in a place to help you - even if you do not want to go and you are going to stay there for years if necessary. We did get two of these nutcases off the streets and forcibly confined... the man who shot and killed John Lennon and the man who shot and wounded President Ronald Reagan. Both deranged mentally ill people of the same mental profile of these nutcases pictured here, Yes - they were and still are confined but too late ... Always too late because America cannot face the fact of the need - the demand for forcible confinement.

These 'men' are human garbage - but cannot be put in a bin until they have rotted to the core.

[chuckd]

"Most of the terrorist activity in the U.S. in recent years has has come not from Muslims, but from radical Christianists, white supremacists and far-right militia groups."

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

Let's not forget the drug cartels and gang bangers.

Putting this in perspective, nine dead in one day in South Carolina would be a slow morning in Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, etc.

[chuckd]

It's not the only channel I watch Chuck.

But it is, by a significant margin, the absolute worst.

Plus I must bring down the average viewing age significantly.

As well as the average IQ?

Sorry, I don't believe that is possible.

Well, you know what they say..."Opinions are like axxhxxxs. Everybody has one."

[JDGRUEN]

TO STOP MASS KILLERS, WE HAVE TO STOP DRUGGING OUR YOUNG BOYS

We may never know quite what drives some people to kill. But it seems that in young Dylann Storm Roof, we have further evidence of a trend that should worry us all. I’m talking about his dependence on prescription drugs: suboxone, to be precise.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/19/how-our-touchy-feely-feminised-society-creates-young-male-killers/

[Jingthing]

Drugs? Spare us.

Sounds like pure right wing SPIN to avoid the issue of white racism against blacks.

I'm not buying it.

The justice department is now considering terrorism charges. Good!

[Ulysses G.]

We may never know quite what drives some people to kill. But it seems that in young Dylann Storm Roof, we have further evidence of a trend that should worry us all. Im talking about his dependence on prescription drugs:

Racists take drugs too. That is why they call oxycodone, "hillbilly heroin".

If he was taking suboxone, he was probably an opiate addict of some type - probably heroin or Oxycodone. Stopping addiction is what this drug is really for, although - like methadone - it can give one a really lousy high, if someone is desperate enough.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[F430murci]

TO STOP MASS KILLERS, WE HAVE TO STOP DRUGGING OUR YOUNG BOYS

We may never know quite what drives some people to kill. But it seems that in young Dylann Storm Roof, we have further evidence of a trend that should worry us all. I’m talking about his dependence on prescription drugs: suboxone, to be precise.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/19/how-our-touchy-feely-feminised-society-creates-young-male-killers/

Oh dear God. The idiot brigade talking about think of which they have no clue. SSRIs are actually a very bad idea for most of the population. I have been through the litigation, seen the studies and understand completely how SSRIs can actually exacerbate the problem for which unknowledgeable GPs prescribe the drug.

But common, does this moron have any clue about suboxone? First of all, thy said the guy did not have a prescription. Bupe is a synthetic partial agonist that is actually very hard on on the body as is the blocker, naloxone when taking in higher amounts over extended period of time.

Neither Bupe nor naloxone alter the xy axis like SSRIs. Lupe is not can to drive someone mad and cause them to be a maniac like SSRIs have the potential to do. People like Bret Bart are idiots that like to drum up fear in certain aspects of the public who are also idiots. Playing the drug card is just another way to stir emotions in those without a clue.