Obama health care law survives second Supreme Court fight

[samran]

Nationally, 10.2 million people have signed up for health insurance under the law. That includes 8.7 million who are receiving an average subsidy of $272 a month to help pay their premiums.

The US will owe about 20 TRILLION by the next election, it borrows about 3 billion a day to run the country.

In short it can't afford to subsidise so many people on a shonky corrupt scheme that only helps insurance companies get rich.

Whatever the SC says, Obamacare is doomed in the long run.

That's 10.2 million people who on average will be healthier and this more able to work and pay taxes than they otherwise would have been. A boon for productivity and employers.

[Jingthing]

Don't get carried away. Obamacare was a very messy political compromise ... and is basically welfare for big medical business. It wasn't the hope and change we were expecting when Obama first got elected. Was better possible? Yes, I think so. I think Obama caved to big business too early and started his negotiating position giving up universal from the start.

With Obamacare, even with 50 state expanded Medicaid, the health care system in the U.S. is still pretty ridiculous from both a cost control and ideal care POV.

Yes on access to coverage it was a historic step in the right (as opposed to the right wing) direction. But the status quo is STILL quite horrible.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Jingthing

[JakeSully]

Don't get carried away. Obamacare was a very messy political compromise ... and is basically welfare for big medical business. It wasn't the hope and change we were expecting when Obama first got elected. Was better possible? Yes, I think so. I think Obama caved to big business too early and started his negotiating position giving up universal from the start.

With Obamacare, even with 50 state expanded Medicaid, the health care system in the U.S. is still pretty ridiculous from both a cost control and ideal care POV.

Yes on access to coverage it was a historic step in the right (as opposed to the right wing) direction. But the status quo is STILL quite horrible.

That was the foot in the door. Fully opening it is not really possible without a constitutional amendment I think since the die hard racists will always donate money for the campaigns of the people who oppose any legislation that came about under Obama.

The compromise at the time was literally forced because Kennedy died and Scott Brown when elected dropped the votes to 59 in the senate. They had to take it then for what it was.

Could the next president open it fully? I think it'll take 2 presidents.. sorta like don't ask don't tell.. have to get the country on board with, obamacare was a temporary fix, not a full time fix.. and given the priority of the 2 sides.. economic inequality vs repeal obamacare.. I think it'll just "sit in place" for 10-20 years..

I could be wrong ofcourse.

Edited June 26, 2015 by JakeSully

[samran]

Don't get carried away. Obamacare was a very messy political compromise ... and is basically welfare for big medical business. It wasn't the hope and change we were expecting when Obama first got elected. Was better possible? Yes, I think so. I think Obama caved to big business too early and started his negotiating position giving up universal from the start.

With Obamacare, even with 50 state expanded Medicaid, the health care system in the U.S. is still pretty ridiculous from both a cost control and ideal care POV.

Yes on access to coverage it was a historic step in the right (as opposed to the right wing) direction. But the status quo is STILL quite horrible.

Don't disagree, but it does start to entrench the ideal of assistance for health care in the American psyche. And that is truely what the rabid wing nuts were scared of as it makes the next step towards a more enlightened system easier.

[Chicog]

The republicans offer NO alternative though.

They're a bit of a joke. They can't come up with a Health Care bill, the can't come up with an Immigration bill.

They keep threatening to, but then sit on their hands and do nothing because they are afraid of the wrath of their paymasters, and they don't seem to give a toss about the people.

[JakeSully]

The republicans offer NO alternative though.

They're a bit of a joke. They can't come up with a Health Care bill, the can't come up with an Immigration bill.

They keep threatening to, but then sit on their hands and do nothing because they are afraid of the wrath of their paymasters, and they don't seem to give a toss about the people.

In a world where progress has led to medical healthcare and technology where everything is instantly messaged to you on your smart device, the republicans would like to tell everyone, "We want to take our country back to when there were no knowledge of anything unless it was printed in a newspaper that they chose, slavery was abundant, women had no rights, only land owners were able to vote, and healthcare was only available to the uber rich."

There is no greater sickness than nostalgia. Oh wait they lost to progress then which is why we're here in the now.

[pitrevie]

The Koch brothers are against it, if anything, that tells you that it will benefit millions of people.

[Chicog]

The Koch brothers are against it, if anything, that tells you that it will benefit millions of people.

But then again they are against every single thing that stops them trousering billions, not matter how harmful to anyone else.

[bendejo]

Don't get carried away. Obamacare was a very messy political compromise ... and is basically welfare for big medical business. It wasn't the hope and change we were expecting when Obama first got elected. Was better possible? Yes, I think so. I think Obama caved to big business too early and started his negotiating position giving up universal from the start.

With Obamacare, even with 50 state expanded Medicaid, the health care system in the U.S. is still pretty ridiculous from both a cost control and ideal care POV.

Yes on access to coverage it was a historic step in the right (as opposed to the right wing) direction. But the status quo is STILL quite horrible.

I agree. When President O. allowed the GOP to wee-wee on his health care bill and turn it into the mess it is now I started losing respect for him. He should have taken a firmer stand. And Republicans, whose real mascot is a horse's rear end, keep on and on about how terrible it is and should be repealed, etc. Well, the terrible stuff is what they insisted on. Wonder how much $$ the insurance companies paid those true patriots for their votes.

The real failure of this administration is how he let those hypocrtical congressional GOP dipsticks bully him. He needed a little bit of that 'bully pulpit" stuff. But I think he has learned a few things since then, and if the bill was in play now he'd do a better job of getting what he wants.

[chuckd]

Don't get carried away. Obamacare was a very messy political compromise ... and is basically welfare for big medical business. It wasn't the hope and change we were expecting when Obama first got elected. Was better possible? Yes, I think so. I think Obama caved to big business too early and started his negotiating position giving up universal from the start.

With Obamacare, even with 50 state expanded Medicaid, the health care system in the U.S. is still pretty ridiculous from both a cost control and ideal care POV.

Yes on access to coverage it was a historic step in the right (as opposed to the right wing) direction. But the status quo is STILL quite horrible.

I agree. When President O. allowed the GOP to wee-wee on his health care bill and turn it into the mess it is now I started losing respect for him. He should have taken a firmer stand. And Republicans, whose real mascot is a horse's rear end, keep on and on about how terrible it is and should be repealed, etc. Well, the terrible stuff is what they insisted on. Wonder how much $$ the insurance companies paid those true patriots for their votes.

The real failure of this administration is how he let those hypocrtical congressional GOP dipsticks bully him. He needed a little bit of that 'bully pulpit" stuff. But I think he has learned a few things since then, and if the bill was in play now he'd do a better job of getting what he wants.

Care to explain how the Republicans impacted this bill.

In particular this portion of your post..."When President O. allowed the GOP to wee-wee on his health care bill and turn it into the mess it is now..."

You refer later in your post to the "terrible stuff they insisted on."

I would love to hear some specifics on these matters.

[Jai Dee]

A post in violation of the Forum's fair use policy has been removed from this thread.

From the Forum Rules:

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[JakeSully]

I agree with this article:

From the Huffington Post:

Chief Justice Roberts Just Gave Obamacare Opponents A Major Smackdown

It was a smackdown.

There’s really no other way to describe the ruling that the U.S. Supreme Court handed down on Thursday, rejecting the latest and maybe the last serious threat to the Affordable Care Act.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/25/obamacare-supreme-court_n_7664156.html

[F430murci]

Really, what a dumb butt comment from someone with no dog in the fight. WTH does someone like you even care. Do you pay health care premiums in the US. Did you lose your doctors of choice because of Obama Care. Are you now paying more money for less benefits because you are subsidizing loser POSs that don't work but are now getting the free promo health care coverage that is completely paid for by those us that do.

Candidly, you ain't got a clue nor a dog in the fight, but yet you pass judgment. Things will even out in the US very soon and people like you will still b people like you . . .

Clearly one of the heads that exploded was yours.

Huh, I am drinking beer and listenung to Limp Bizkit with my hottie wife. Head still in one piece and my net worth not impacted. I, however, am concerned for middle class America working stif that is getting the shaft here and paying for losers that don't work.

Oh yeah, you are all for governments taking care of losers that don't work and the hilarious thing is you contribute or pay nothing toward that. Losers just draining the system are pathetic beings. Do you fit that category?????????

Would you like a pint of bitter with those sour grapes?

First off, both my wife and I have great coverage through our employers and mine is completely free if charge to me. So sour grapes not really an issue because I am fine either way.

I defended Obama Care and explained how it could be a really great think do all before it got up and running. The problems began to arise during implementation, but implementation was forced through and it turned out to be like everything else Obama does , , , some half baked social program that created more problems than it fixed.

Obama Care basically gave free Cadillac coverage to the losers with no jobs while forcing crap plans on working middle class that provides crap coverage that too hospitals and better doctors don't accept. Now how the heck is that far?

There should not be different coverages. I would be fine with the subsidies if everyone got the same coverages. That's the crux of it.

Lol, all you takers on here getting the subsidies and the better plans than the hard working middle class that actually deserve the better plans should be very proud.

Edited June 26, 2015 by F430murci

[F430murci]

Really, what a dumb butt comment from someone with no dog in the fight. WTH does someone like you even care. Do you pay health care premiums in the US. Did you lose your doctors of choice because of Obama Care. Are you now paying more money for less benefits because you are subsidizing loser POSs that don't work but are now getting the free promo health care coverage that is completely paid for by those us that do.

Candidly, you ain't got a clue nor a dog in the fight, but yet you pass judgment. Things will even out in the US very soon and people like you will still b people like you . . .

Clearly one of the heads that exploded was yours.

Huh, I am drinking beer and listenung to Limp Bizkit with my hottie wife. Head still in one piece and my net worth not impacted. I, however, am concerned for middle class America working stif that is getting the shaft here and paying for losers that don't work.

Oh yeah, you are all for governments taking care of losers that don't work and the hilarious thing is you contribute or pay nothing toward that. Losers just draining the system are pathetic beings. Do you fit that category?????????

Limp bizkit.

The only limp thing here is your line of argument.

Do you wear your boxer shorts hanging out of your jeans as well?

Even if I did, at least I pay for my boxers and jeans with my own money that I actually worked for and earned . . . apparently unlike some on here.

Love how entitlement goof balls living in far away places care so much about programs that does not impact them.

I have seen first hand the negative impact on both the provider side and the patient side from working with the health care industry. You apparently have not, but then how could you since you neither live here nor participate in the program.

Edited June 26, 2015 by F430murci

[Pinot]

Don't get carried away. Obamacare was a very messy political compromise ... and is basically welfare for big medical business. It wasn't the hope and change we were expecting when Obama first got elected. Was better possible? Yes, I think so. I think Obama caved to big business too early and started his negotiating position giving up universal from the start.

With Obamacare, even with 50 state expanded Medicaid, the health care system in the U.S. is still pretty ridiculous from both a cost control and ideal care POV.

Yes on access to coverage it was a historic step in the right (as opposed to the right wing) direction. But the status quo is STILL quite horrible.

I agree. When President O. allowed the GOP to wee-wee on his health care bill and turn it into the mess it is now I started losing respect for him. He should have taken a firmer stand. And Republicans, whose real mascot is a horse's rear end, keep on and on about how terrible it is and should be repealed, etc. Well, the terrible stuff is what they insisted on. Wonder how much $$ the insurance companies paid those true patriots for their votes.

The real failure of this administration is how he let those hypocrtical congressional GOP dipsticks bully him. He needed a little bit of that 'bully pulpit" stuff. But I think he has learned a few things since then, and if the bill was in play now he'd do a better job of getting what he wants.

Care to explain how the Republicans impacted this bill.

In particular this portion of your post..."When President O. allowed the GOP to wee-wee on his health care bill and turn it into the mess it is now..."

You refer later in your post to the "terrible stuff they insisted on."

I would love to hear some specifics on these matters.

The bill was originally written to get the GOP on-board on almost every major point. The Republicans fought hard to dilute Obamacare and protect the insurance companies and the Doctors, both big contributors. In the end the Republicans, despite the major concessions, voted against the bill, out of sheer spite. They then went on to try and kill it for the next six years.

So, do a little research on your own and see where it could have been a much better plan except for the fact the Republicans are such dicks.

[sdanielmcev]

The republicans offer NO alternative though.

They're a bit of a joke. They can't come up with a Health Care bill, the can't come up with an Immigration bill.

They keep threatening to, but then sit on their hands and do nothing because they are afraid of the wrath of their paymasters, and they don't seem to give a toss about the people.

They've already come up with both. The dems blocked both, well publicized. Don't go down the prevaricating trail.

[sdanielmcev]

Don't get carried away. Obamacare was a very messy political compromise ... and is basically welfare for big medical business. It wasn't the hope and change we were expecting when Obama first got elected. Was better possible? Yes, I think so. I think Obama caved to big business too early and started his negotiating position giving up universal from the start.

With Obamacare, even with 50 state expanded Medicaid, the health care system in the U.S. is still pretty ridiculous from both a cost control and ideal care POV.

Yes on access to coverage it was a historic step in the right (as opposed to the right wing) direction. But the status quo is STILL quite horrible.

I agree. When President O. allowed the GOP to wee-wee on his health care bill and turn it into the mess it is now I started losing respect for him. He should have taken a firmer stand. And Republicans, whose real mascot is a horse's rear end, keep on and on about how terrible it is and should be repealed, etc. Well, the terrible stuff is what they insisted on. Wonder how much $$ the insurance companies paid those true patriots for their votes.

The real failure of this administration is how he let those hypocrtical congressional GOP dipsticks bully him. He needed a little bit of that 'bully pulpit" stuff. But I think he has learned a few things since then, and if the bill was in play now he'd do a better job of getting what he wants.

Care to explain how the Republicans impacted this bill.

In particular this portion of your post..."When President O. allowed the GOP to wee-wee on his health care bill and turn it into the mess it is now..."

You refer later in your post to the "terrible stuff they insisted on."

I would love to hear some specifics on these matters.

The bill was originally written to get the GOP on-board on almost every major point. The Republicans fought hard to dilute Obamacare and protect the insurance companies and the Doctors, both big contributors. In the end the Republicans, despite the major concessions, voted against the bill, out of sheer spite. They then went on to try and kill it for the next six years.

So, do a little research on your own and see where it could have been a much better plan except for the fact the Republicans are such dicks.

Please explain these 'major concessions.' Remember Pelosi saying " You don't have to read it"? Careful with your name calling as well. I could find many expletives to paint your political philosophy, but they only dilute the arguement.

[sdanielmcev]

A bunch right wing heads just exploded.

If the left wing people only had heads we might be able to talk. My objection to this thing is strictly a lack of planning followed by bad implementation. It needs to be redone from the beginning.

It is what it is because of furious attacks on scare campaigns on a more ideal system which should have covered more people.

We have had this debate before. There are world class examples of systems which give more coverage, better outcomes all for less money.

But all someone on the right in the US has to do is drop the 'S' word and 38% of you go ape-shit.

And you end up with this.

A scare campaign is what launched Obama care in the first place. And what is this 'ideal' system? Using tax dollars I.e. the government, is a poor way to administrate health care. It will always be populated by whatever political whim is currently in vogue.

[Chicog]

The republicans offer NO alternative though.

They're a bit of a joke. They can't come up with a Health Care bill, the can't come up with an Immigration bill.

They keep threatening to, but then sit on their hands and do nothing because they are afraid of the wrath of their paymasters, and they don't seem to give a toss about the people.

They've already come up with both. The dems blocked both, well publicized. Don't go down the prevaricating trail.

Show me the votes please, I must have missed them.

[chuckd]

Don't get carried away. Obamacare was a very messy political compromise ... and is basically welfare for big medical business. It wasn't the hope and change we were expecting when Obama first got elected. Was better possible? Yes, I think so. I think Obama caved to big business too early and started his negotiating position giving up universal from the start.

With Obamacare, even with 50 state expanded Medicaid, the health care system in the U.S. is still pretty ridiculous from both a cost control and ideal care POV.

Yes on access to coverage it was a historic step in the right (as opposed to the right wing) direction. But the status quo is STILL quite horrible.

I agree. When President O. allowed the GOP to wee-wee on his health care bill and turn it into the mess it is now I started losing respect for him. He should have taken a firmer stand. And Republicans, whose real mascot is a horse's rear end, keep on and on about how terrible it is and should be repealed, etc. Well, the terrible stuff is what they insisted on. Wonder how much $$ the insurance companies paid those true patriots for their votes.

The real failure of this administration is how he let those hypocrtical congressional GOP dipsticks bully him. He needed a little bit of that 'bully pulpit" stuff. But I think he has learned a few things since then, and if the bill was in play now he'd do a better job of getting what he wants.

Care to explain how the Republicans impacted this bill.

In particular this portion of your post..."When President O. allowed the GOP to wee-wee on his health care bill and turn it into the mess it is now..."

You refer later in your post to the "terrible stuff they insisted on."

I would love to hear some specifics on these matters.

The bill was originally written to get the GOP on-board on almost every major point. The Republicans fought hard to dilute Obamacare and protect the insurance companies and the Doctors, both big contributors. In the end the Republicans, despite the major concessions, voted against the bill, out of sheer spite. They then went on to try and kill it for the next six years.

So, do a little research on your own and see where it could have been a much better plan except for the fact the Republicans are such dicks.

I have followed this bill from its inception until its final passage in the middle of the night on Christmas Eve in 2009.

I know it was written without the consultation of one single Republican, was voted on without one single member of Congress even reading it and was passed without one single Republican vote.

I know Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) was raised from his death bed and brought in on a gurney so he could vote on it to get the necessary majority.

I know they played games with the approval process so the bill, even though it originated in the Senate and not the House of Representatives, was passed under a subterfuge of bill swapping.

I know Obama promised the citizens if you liked your doctor and your old plan you could keep them. That was a blatant lie and he knew he was lying when he made the claims.

Your rather ignorant claim that the Republicans had some input is wrong on so many counts.

Now, if you understand the word "specific", you can provide the answer to my question addressed to bendejo.

Specifically what "terrible stuff" did the Republicans insist on that made such a mess of the bill?

The Democrats did that all by themselves. They didn't need Republican help to screw the pooch on this one.

Edited June 26, 2015 by chuckd

[Johpa]

President Obama is on a roll, another victory. Give this law a few more years and it will be impossible to repeal it. One thing about Americans: We may choose sides when it comes to politics, but we all love our entitlements.

So good health and ultimately life are, in your small minded world, an entitlement?!? I have always carried health insurance for my family, and don't yet access my state's ACA based insurance plans. But I have a rare disease, and that will ultimately prove fatal within a few years unless I can come up with a whole boatload of money, more than I have, (over $200,000 per year) and even after that I would only live a few more years and then leave my wife to live the remainder of her life in poverty. So it is an entitlement that I live? Any further expression of my thoughts would get me banned once again.

The ACA does help although I would prefer some sort of either nationalized healthcare or nationalized insurance that maximizes the spread of risk. The ACA attempts to mitigate this by requiring everyone to purchase some sort of insurance on the private market. But some like myself, who do not belong to a large attractive group like government workers or Microsoft workers, still get denied coverage for many drugs that remain "in trials". At the very least the ACA determines a maximum annual out-of-pocket expense. The ACA is an improvement in some ways, but since it sidetracks the needed reform and movement nationalized healthcare and, at the same time, somehow reinforces the misanthropic view of the healthy and wealthy that health and life are a welfare "entitlement" for the undeserving.

By the way, the US does nationalize medical research. There is not a single treatment out there whose genesis did not include an NIH grant. The vast majority of those research projects lead nowhere. The few that do prove effective somehow get full ownership taken by the private sector and eventually owned by Big Pharma such as AbbVie or Roche. The likes of men such as the one I know as "you got to be kidding me, that Art" don't need any more of my money to pad their stock portfolios.

[sdanielmcev]

The republicans offer NO alternative though.

They're a bit of a joke. They can't come up with a Health Care bill, the can't come up with an Immigration bill.

They keep threatening to, but then sit on their hands and do nothing because they are afraid of the wrath of their paymasters, and they don't seem to give a toss about the people.

They've already come up with both. The dems blocked both, well publicized. Don't go down the prevaricating trail.

Show me the votes please, I must have missed them.

1993, for health care, of which the present form of Obama care is a bastardized version. Reagan's immigration reform. Or, were you too busy being indoctrinated into socialism to notice. There are a lot more, but you probably don't care. The democrats have been beating down every alternative, btw.

[Chicog]

1993, for health care, of which the present form of Obama care is a bastardized version. Reagan's immigration reform. Or, were you too busy being indoctrinated into socialism to notice. There are a lot more, but you probably don't care. The democrats have been beating down every alternative, btw.

You have a point, apart from it being '86 and '93.

I think I was too busy being decades younger.

However, it does not contradict what I said:

They can't come up with a Health Care bill, they can't come up with an Immigration bill.

Which is probably because....

they are afraid of the wrath of their paymasters, and they don't seem to give a toss about the people.

Although based on your post, I probably should add the words "any more" to that last sentence.

[cantplay]

The ADA is progress. The republicans hate progress.

Case: A majority of republicans refute evolution and global warming, many are creationists.

Now that's double knot thinkin

Edited June 26, 2015 by cantplay

[F430murci]

Oh dear God. Is any one watching this President of ours speech during the SC Pastor funeral. Oh dear god . . . No wonder things are so jacked up right now including our health care laws. Agenda dude and he bolsters his reverse racism bs with Gods will and Gods grace. Disgusting.

[Jingthing]

Oh dear God. Is any one watching this President of ours speech during the SC Pastor funeral. Oh dear god . . . No wonder things are so jacked up right now including our health care laws. Agenda dude and he bolsters his reverse racism bs with Gods will and Gods grace. Disgusting.

What are you on about? Obama has been amazing today. Amazing Grace.

[F430murci]

The marriage equality ruling by the Supreme Court was a great move.

[sdanielmcev]

1993, for health care, of which the present form of Obama care is a bastardized version. Reagan's immigration reform. Or, were you too busy being indoctrinated into socialism to notice. There are a lot more, but you probably don't care. The democrats have been beating down every alternative, btw.

You have a point, apart from it being '86 and '93.

I think I was too busy being decades younger.

However, it does not contradict what I said:

They can't come up with a Health Care bill, they can't come up with an Immigration bill.

Which is probably because....

they are afraid of the wrath of their paymasters, and they don't seem to give a toss about the people.

Although based on your post, I probably should add the words "any more" to that last sentence.

Nope. You lost. And dems are just as much in the pocket of their paymasters as well. Or are you really that naive?

[Publicus]

Oh dear God. Is any one watching this President of ours speech during the SC Pastor funeral. Oh dear god . . . No wonder things are so jacked up right now including our health care laws. Agenda dude and he bolsters his reverse racism bs with Gods will and Gods grace. Disgusting.

The legacy of the Barack Obama presidency is taking its definitive shape and the right has lost...the right has lost big time. It's all been for naught.

The vast majority of American society has jettisoned the far out right in to deep space. The Republican candidate clown car has meanwhile gone in to a terminal zig zagging with the Donald at the wheel.

[F430murci]

Oh dear God. Is any one watching this President of ours speech during the SC Pastor funeral. Oh dear god . . . No wonder things are so jacked up right now including our health care laws. Agenda dude and he bolsters his reverse racism bs with Gods will and Gods grace. Disgusting.

The legacy of the Barack Obama presidency is taking its definitive shape and the right has lost...the right has lost big time. It's all been for naught.

The vast majority of American society has jettisoned the far out right in to deep space. The Republican candidate clown car has meanwhile gone in to a terminal zig zagging with the Donald at the wheel.

Your problem is that you view everything as right or left, black or white, night or day. That is not reality. Dude, I am a democrat. I have not voted Republican since Bush senior. Bill Clinton was ad still is my man.

People like you who view right and left are the ones lost and not living in reality. You are the ones that lose sight of what is healthy for all because you are so focused on extreme right or left and are against something just because it is from the right and not the left or visa versa.

I look at things objectively and what is good for everyone. Seriously, why should I give a hoot about the middle class which Obama has destroyed since he has been in office. Because I actually give a crap about good, hard working people.

Obama's artificial economy has created income disparity and destroyed the middle class. All of the QE bs actually made me a very rich man, but I am still objective enough to see the long term damage the moron has done.