Does Melatonin really work for you as a sleep aid?

[ryanhull]

Hey guys,

Sorry to keep bothering you with my issues and asking questions again but I always seem to get some good advice here and I know alot also suffer from chronic insomnia.... I have come off the benzos for good/cold turkey after tapering to 0.5mg of clonazepam and have had a really rough week, sleeping in patches and feeling like im only 20% asleep then waking up at 4am wide awake, plus really bad mood swings (I am usually quite happy), headaches, appetite loss, even some friends have commented how horribly drained and tired I look, I know this is standard when coming off any benzos and I have been through a cold turkey in the past but this time its been more hellish, its been horrible but I am determined not to take any benzo again for a sleep aid full stop...

My wifes uncle is a nurse and she suggested 'amitriptyline hydrochloride' as she knows in detail about my insomnia issues from my wife for sometime...

Few questions can I buy this OTC in Thailand? and has anyone here had any experience with this drug? I have googled it but reading various reports which are all varied as usual (information overload) be good to get some real reviews from you lot...

And a warning, do not touch any benzo`s = xanax, valium, kloniziapam etc are an evil drug when you come off them, sure they do the trick short term.... you might not think so and others in this thread have said they take them without a problem but trust me I have never felt this rough in my life, I was expecting it so I am just in 'grin and bear it' mode.

Cheers all

[samuibeachcomber]

I bought online puritan's pride melatonin....3mg per tab. 120 tab's for 630 baht plus ems postage fee of 50 baht.www.puritan.com they are working well.

Edited July 18, 2015 by samuibeachcomber

[samuibeachcomber]

I picked up a box of 15, a bit pricy @ 630 baht, 1,260B for a month if taken daily. I don't remember having a problem with plain ordinary melatonin in the past so will likely look for a cheaper source in time and experiment. Website http://www.circadin.com/

Doug

EDIT: the pharmacist said to take 3 hours before going to bed???

I bought these too,expensive.see my previous post.

[samuibeachcomber]

stop these shit drugs.

stop to drink coffee and coke all day.

stop the soda and Fat food.

take cold shower when you feel sleepy and go to bed.

there is no one remedy.

[moe666]

If you can find the melatonin that you place in your mouth and let it disolve this is the best way for delivery. I herb in the states carries it and they ship to Thailand. You may want to have a blood test to see if you have low levels as you are a bit young. Low levels usually affectolder people and you may not get any help by taking it

[ryanhull]

If you can find the melatonin that you place in your mouth and let it disolve this is the best way for delivery. I herb in the states carries it and they ship to Thailand. You may want to have a blood test to see if you have low levels as you are a bit young. Low levels usually affectolder people and you may not get any help by taking it

Thanks for the information... I never thought of that, I am however 31 so not sure if I would say I am young, I certinally do not feel it! heh,

I have been told by the doc to go back on the benzo`s and do a taper off as I was in a bad way yesterday and it seemed the cold turkey was not a wise move, I had the worst 3 day headache and started to get cramps so it was becoming dangerous... I am going to be on 0.25mg of kloniziapam down to 0.15mg and so on... but I hope when I finally have this out of my system to resort to melatonin only.

Cheers

[rijit]

Interesting thread

rijit

[honu]

I've had lots of problems with insomnia over the last 5 years myself, but in my case the cause was clear, having two young kids. A week of thunderstorms will throw off their sleep cycle, or even just bad dreams, and then I'm a few weeks getting mine back too after being up with them.

I've tried melatonin but it's hard to say if it works for me or not. If it does it's not as strong as sleeping pills, so hard to separate what it's doing from a placebo effect, or just waiting out the problem for a number of days. So even though I can't help with that question I can add a little to the discussion.

I just read that in America a major store chain was identified as selling herbal supplements with no actual herbal supplements in them. Probably better to not mention that now, not so good for supporting the placebo effect to suggest some supplements are fakes, but depending on what you buy that might be all that you are getting, the idea of melatonin, not the drug.

My mother has long had problems and her solution is to watch a movie she's seen lots of times since that's relaxing for her mind, and puts her out. Of course the conventional wisdom is to avoid all types of electronic screens, so the opposite.

At times I've tried breathing tricks, slowing down breathing, relaxing my chest and stomach, calming myself until I'm out, and to a certain extent that can help. Really I just wait it out now, mess with my phone if I feel like it, lay around sometimes, whatever seems right. My problem is trivial compared to the one described here because I'll always sleep a few hours a night, not enough to feel normal maybe, but nothing like skipping sleep for two days.

[HooHaa]

Another drug I use nearly every day ..

100 or more kilometers on my MTB ( Mountain Bike ) ;

when it's time to sleep between 9 and 10 pm, no problem to do it...

I don't smoke, I don't drink alcool and I'm living in the countryside, far from noisy towns...since eight years , in Thailand, of course

yay you. it is a wonder you havent become smug ... oh wait ....

OP, i too have trouble getting to sleep, but absolutely no problem sleeping and i have been trying circadin, a brand of synthetic melatonin. so far so good managed to get down around one and up by 9 every day last week.

first nigh was some very trippy dreams, but all good ever since.

Edited July 20, 2015 by HooHaa

[rijit]

When.ilook bac I reckon i`ve always had sleep issues. Bac as a kid can remember tossing and

turning and not sleeping as a teenager and then came the headonistic 70's and that probably took care of any sleep issues. Anyway,, over the years have tried pretty much all to sleep well. Nothing single works Where i'm at now is Ive stopped drinking my one americano a day, drink one tea a day make sure i avoid anything caffieny and anything v sugary like J2 o's and dont drink alcohol. have a bac up of zolpidem even with one of those i still wake up after 4 max 5 hours.

When i realised sleep was a huge issue

Doc's were sympatetic but they offered no help now they do but the hospital clinic is geared to narcolepsy not insomnia which i suffer from . so as it boils bac.to one self. Oh went to india and studied.yoga thought that would help. But months of early mornings nearly killed me and that aint ott, it was

ABSOLUTELY horrible if my sleeping is fcd up i become absolutely useless

anyway, what have i found to sort? 1/Ear plugs, wax ones from boots cut out most unwanted noise 2 / eye mask , does what it says. 3/ found transfering the skill of meditation over extremelly effective

4/ and books, surprisingly the more challenging the quicker i get.bac to sleep

2 things i need to get rid off ,pre sleep this phone and after they run out IVe used 11 since december the sleeping pills both not really good in the long term imo.

Oh and the.other thing 2 remember is no one REALLY understands how bad it is until they go through it

rijit

[ryanhull]

I've had lots of problems with insomnia over the last 5 years myself, but in my case the cause was clear, having two young kids. A week of thunderstorms will throw off their sleep cycle, or even just bad dreams, and then I'm a few weeks getting mine back too after being up with them.

I've tried melatonin but it's hard to say if it works for me or not. If it does it's not as strong as sleeping pills, so hard to separate what it's doing from a placebo effect, or just waiting out the problem for a number of days. So even though I can't help with that question I can add a little to the discussion.

I just read that in America a major store chain was identified as selling herbal supplements with no actual herbal supplements in them. Probably better to not mention that now, not so good for supporting the placebo effect to suggest some supplements are fakes, but depending on what you buy that might be all that you are getting, the idea of melatonin, not the drug.

My mother has long had problems and her solution is to watch a movie she's seen lots of times since that's relaxing for her mind, and puts her out. Of course the conventional wisdom is to avoid all types of electronic screens, so the opposite.

At times I've tried breathing tricks, slowing down breathing, relaxing my chest and stomach, calming myself until I'm out, and to a certain extent that can help. Really I just wait it out now, mess with my phone if I feel like it, lay around sometimes, whatever seems right. My problem is trivial compared to the one described here because I'll always sleep a few hours a night, not enough to feel normal maybe, but nothing like skipping sleep for two days.

I completely get you, I am a new father with a 6 month old son yet tbh I cannot but it down to him as I have had insomnia well before he came along and tbh he sleeps through the night usuually... I have tried various other light OTC drugs recently, sometimes I kinda sit there thinking 'is this working, is this working' and it makes it worse so maybe the melatonin would be like that for me, although I guess I need to give it a good try... one drug that did work quite well was an antihistamine but it made me really groggy the next day for the full day, I could barely be bothered to do anything plus headaches etc, it wasn't good and my sleep didnt seem reall.

OP, i too have trouble getting to sleep, but absolutely no problem sleeping and i have been trying circadin, a brand of synthetic melatonin. so far so good managed to get down around one and up by 9 every day last week.

first nigh was some very trippy dreams, but all good ever since.

I will have a gander at circadin... the antihistamines gave me really trippy dreams, id say nightmares really lol

When.ilook bac I reckon i`ve always had sleep issues. Bac as a kid can remember tossing and

turning and not sleeping as a teenager and then came the headonistic 70's and that probably took care of any sleep issues. Anyway,, over the years have tried pretty much all to sleep well. Nothing single works Where i'm at now is Ive stopped drinking my one americano a day, drink one tea a day make sure i avoid anything caffieny and anything v sugary like J2 o's and dont drink alcohol. have a bac up of zolpidem even with one of those i still wake up after 4 max 5 hours.

When i realised sleep was a huge issue

Doc's were sympatetic but they offered no help now they do but the hospital clinic is geared to narcolepsy not insomnia which i suffer from . so as it boils bac.to one self. Oh went to india and studied.yoga thought that would help. But months of early mornings nearly killed me and that aint ott, it was

ABSOLUTELY horrible if my sleeping is fcd up i become absolutely useless

anyway, what have i found to sort? 1/Ear plugs, wax ones from boots cut out most unwanted noise 2 / eye mask , does what it says. 3/ found transfering the skill of meditation over extremelly effective

4/ and books, surprisingly the more challenging the quicker i get.bac to sleep

2 things i need to get rid off ,pre sleep this phone and after they run out IVe used 11 since december the sleeping pills both not really good in the long term imo.

Oh and the.other thing 2 remember is no one REALLY understands how bad it is until they go through it

Agreed not many people understand how hellish insomnia is until they go through it, its not just sleep it affects you in so many other ways, is zolpidem an OTC drug in Thailand?

---

I did try amitriptyline hydrochloride for the one night, slept for about 16 hours straight but not deep sleep and had horrible nightmares plus woke up feeling like death... felt shit the whole of the next day too like as if I was hungover so wont be doing that again although I can say it does knock you out but not in a nice way.. not seen anyone here mention it but do see mixed reviews on google with the amitriptyline hydrochloride

all in all I wouldn't wish insomnia on my worst enemy and I can safely say meditation, books, movies although appreciated will not work on me, one mate who suffers badly from insomnia says 2 hours in a swimming pool followed by a monster meal and bed works for him which I kinda get as when I eat tons I do feel quite sleepy plus swimming does wear you out... its a tricky one but one I am determined to over come

Cheers for the replies all

[skippybangkok]

Cheers for the replies all

Including mine ?

[rijit]

I've had lots of problems with insomnia over the last 5 years myself, but in my case the cause was clear, having two young kids. A week of thunderstorms will throw off their sleep cycle, or even just bad dreams, and then I'm a few weeks getting mine back too after being up with them.

I've tried melatonin but it's hard to say if it works for me or not. If it does it's not as strong as sleeping pills, so hard to separate what it's doing from a placebo effect, or just waiting out the problem for a number of days. So even though I can't help with that question I can add a little to the discussion.

I just read that in America a major store chain was identified as selling herbal supplements with no actual herbal supplements in them. Probably better to not mention that now, not so good for supporting the placebo effect to suggest some supplements are fakes, but depending on what you buy that might be all that you are getting, the idea of melatonin, not the drug.

My mother has long had problems and her solution is to watch a movie she's seen lots of times since that's relaxing for her mind, and puts her out. Of course the conventional wisdom is to avoid all types of electronic screens, so the opposite.

At times I've tried breathing tricks, slowing down breathing, relaxing my chest and stomach, calming myself until I'm out, and to a certain extent that can help. Really I just wait it out now, mess with my phone if I feel like it, lay around sometimes, whatever seems right. My problem is trivial compared to the one described here because I'll always sleep a few hours a night, not enough to feel normal maybe, but nothing like skipping sleep for two days.

I completely get you, I am a new father with a 6 month old son yet tbh I cannot but it down to him as I have had insomnia well before he came along and tbh he sleeps through the night usuually... I have tried various other light OTC drugs recently, sometimes I kinda sit there thinking 'is this working, is this working' and it makes it worse so maybe the melatonin would be like that for me, although I guess I need to give it a good try... one drug that did work quite well was an antihistamine but it made me really groggy the next day for the full day, I could barely be bothered to do anything plus headaches etc, it wasn't good and my sleep didnt seem reall.

OP, i too have trouble getting to sleep, but absolutely no problem sleeping and i have been trying circadin, a brand of synthetic melatonin. so far so good managed to get down around one and up by 9 every day last week.

first nigh was some very trippy dreams, but all good ever since.

I will have a gander at circadin... the antihistamines gave me really trippy dreams, id say nightmares really lol

When.ilook bac I reckon i`ve always had sleep issues. Bac as a kid can remember tossing and

turning and not sleeping as a teenager and then came the headonistic 70's and that probably took care of any sleep issues. Anyway,, over the years have tried pretty much all to sleep well. Nothing single works Where i'm at now is Ive stopped drinking my one americano a day, drink one tea a day make sure i avoid anything caffieny and anything v sugary like J2 o's and dont drink alcohol. have a bac up of zolpidem even with one of those i still wake up after 4 max 5 hours.

When i realised sleep was a huge issue

Doc's were sympatetic but they offered no help now they do but the hospital clinic is geared to narcolepsy not insomnia which i suffer from . so as it boils bac.to one self. Oh went to india and studied.yoga thought that would help. But months of early mornings nearly killed me and that aint ott, it was

ABSOLUTELY horrible if my sleeping is fcd up i become absolutely useless

anyway, what have i found to sort? 1/Ear plugs, wax ones from boots cut out most unwanted noise 2 / eye mask , does what it says. 3/ found transfering the skill of meditation over extremelly effective

4/ and books, surprisingly the more challenging the quicker i get.bac to sleep

2 things i need to get rid off ,pre sleep this phone and after they run out IVe used 11 since december the sleeping pills both not really good in the long term imo.

Oh and the.other thing 2 remember is no one REALLY understands how bad it is until they go through it

Agreed not many people understand how hellish insomnia is until they go through it, its not just sleep it affects you in so many other ways, is zolpidem an OTC drug in Thailand?

---

I did try amitriptyline hydrochloride for the one night, slept for about 16 hours straight but not deep sleep and had horrible nightmares plus woke up feeling like death... felt shit the whole of the next day too like as if I was hungover so wont be doing that again although I can say it does knock you out but not in a nice way.. not seen anyone here mention it but do see mixed reviews on google with the amitriptyline hydrochloride

all in all I wouldn't wish insomnia on my worst enemy and I can safely say meditation, books, movies although appreciated will not work on me, one mate who suffers badly from insomnia says 2 hours in a swimming pool followed by a monster meal and bed works for him which I kinda get as when I eat tons I do feel quite sleepy plus swimming does wear you out... its a tricky one but one I am determined to over come

Cheers for the replies all

glad to hear you've had some success with the physical issues, from my exp they arent the ones that are most dificult to over come

If you listen to most people they suffer either from not being able to get off to sleep, the mind just

wanders and the the same when they wake up mid through the night. grabbing a book about meditation to work aint ever gonna happen. It takes time and effort for it to work and become effective, its a skill , a very very effective one and not one that is not easily aqquired but when you do, it works. its the single most effective thing i've come ax in?? years of trying to deal with it.

rijit

Edited July 20, 2015 by rijit

[JB300]

Thank you to whoever suggested the sleep music on YouTube.

I couldn't get to sleep for hours last night as I kept thinking/imagining I could hear a sound but couldn't work out what it was, so fired up YouTube on my IPad, turned it so the screen was facing away from me & managed to fall asleep after 15mins or so (I think the little bit of ambient light from the iPad helped).

Somebody also mentioned focusing on your breathing when trying to get to sleep, haven't seen it specifically mentioned so here's the "4-7-8 Technique" that might help some people http://www.medicaldaily.com/life-hack-sleep-4-7-8-breathing-exercise-will-supposedly-put-you-sleep-just-60-332122

Edited July 21, 2015 by JB300

[rijit]

Thank you to whoever suggested the sleep music on YouTube.

I couldn't get to sleep for hours last night as I kept thinking/imagining I could hear a sound but couldn't work out what it was, so fired up YouTube on my IPad, turned it so the screen was facing away from me & managed to fall asleep after 15mins or so (I think the little bit of ambient light from the iPad helped).

Somebody also mentioned focusing on your breathing when trying to get to sleep, haven't seen it specifically mentioned so here's the "4-7-8 Technique" that might help some people http://www.medicaldaily.com/life-hack-sleep-4-7-8-breathing-exercise-will-supposedly-put-you-sleep-just-60-332122

Yeah it's all about focus even the really old one 'counting sheep' ,,, its dealing with focus stopping your mind wandering and thats what meditation deals mainly with controlling your focus slowing the mind down, giving it a rest. really good/pleased that some of the things suggested are working for you .

rijit

Edited July 21, 2015 by rijit

[Pacificperson]

Have a long conversation with your wife about anything that she wants to talk about. That will turn your mind off and put you to sleep.

[ryanhull]

Have a long conversation with your wife about anything that she wants to talk about. That will turn your mind off and put you to sleep.

Lol... spot on advice that mate, I actually seriously think that might work too

Edited July 21, 2015 by ryanhull

[muskoka]

I picked up a box of 15, a bit pricy @ 630 baht, 1,260B for a month if taken daily. I don't remember having a problem with plain ordinary melatonin in the past so will likely look for a cheaper source in time and experiment. Website http://www.circadin.com/

Doug

EDIT: the pharmacist said to take 3 hours before going to bed???

I bought these too,expensive.see my previous post.

I ordered 3mg by Thorne from iherb which arrived quite quickly, meanwhile I took the Circadin time release I bought from Boots for 7 evenings straight. Nothing too dramatic occurred, slept better for the most part, but not every time. Some nights my dreams were more vivid, nothing crazy. Different story when I took the 3mg by Thorne. Woke up 3x in one night because of extremely vivid and somewhat traumatic dreams. The last dream got me right out of bed as I was a bit shook up about it. Reflecting back to many years past when I was taking Melatonin I did have much more vivid dreams that were sometimes a bit disturbing, but over time they became more interesting than scary.

Just got back today from 7 quiet days of R&R in Pai, reading and relaxing by the river. No melatonin, a couple Ativan. Thinking about the dreams I now feel they were messages (from the subconscious or higher self) that were helpful, but I am only going to take the Thorne product when I feel a bit stagnant or blocked, and need a "wake-up". They are a capsule so I cannot break them up in smaller doses. For now I will alternate between the 3: circadin time release, Thorne and Ativan.

Life is just one big adventure isn't it.

[balo]

You can buy Melatonin very cheap from iHerb.com , only $3.50 for 60 pills.

Do not buy with the rip-off prices they ask for here.

[Sheryl]

You can also get it from Lazada

[balo]

Yes but Lazada is 650 baht or $18 for the exact same box with 60 pills. If it was only double the price it would be acceptable since it's an import but not 5 times more.

iherb same same : www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Melatonin-3-mg-60-Capsules

[skippybangkok]

Works just great the next day when you can't figure out why you can't keep your eyes open

[Cirencester]

Does absolutely nothing for me nothing at all. Must work for some though

[tutsiwarrior]

after years of age related sleep problems (wake up after 2-3 hours and no further sleep, started after I turned 60), sleep clinic survey, purchase of a breathing machine for sleep, etc., etc...melatonin (Circadin 2mg) was like a wonder drug...

now, after 2 years of intermittent usage I have occasional sleep problems like before, even after 2 x 2mg before bed...mostly related to work anxiety: worry about not getting enough sleep and falling asleep inna meeting at work the next day (round and round)...

on weekends and when at home on leave I'm au naturel and have no problems sleeping...need to give up workin', fer me health's sake...

[RabC]

after years of age related sleep problems (wake up after 2-3 hours and no further sleep, started after I turned 60), sleep clinic survey, purchase of a breathing machine for sleep, etc., etc...melatonin (Circadin 2mg) was like a wonder drug...

now, after 2 years of intermittent usage I have occasional sleep problems like before, even after 2 x 2mg before bed...mostly related to work anxiety: worry about not getting enough sleep and falling asleep inna meeting at work the next day (round and round)...

on weekends and when at home on leave I'm au naturel and have no problems sleeping...need to give up workin', fer me health's sake...

Tutsi, my problem is the exact opposite, whilst away and working my mind is tired and I fall asleep quickly and get a full nights sleep, once home and "chilled" I get issues. Melatonin seems to work well for the jet lag once I get home but after that its a case of re-educating my body to sleep patterns. I have used desyrel and that does seem to work, keeps my mind shut down once I am asleep but I don't want to rely on drugs.

[hyperdimension]

You guys shouldn't be buying the most expensive version of melatonin (Circadin). The wasted money may end up adding to your sleeplessness.

The price difference is enormous if you do the calculations (which I have a habit of doing for everything, either using a spreadsheet if I'm at home, or in my head whilst out shopping).

e.g.:

On iherb, Now Foods Melatonin (10mg * 100 = 1000mg total) costs around 407 THB. So that's 0.40736 THB per mg.

At Lab Pharmacy Silom Complex, Circadin (2mg * 30 = 60mg total) costs 570 THB. So that's 9.5 THB per mg

At Boots Silom Complex it was even more expensive: 630 THB (10.5 THB per mg)

So Circadin is over 23 times as expensive!

Get on the internet (e.g. iherb.com) and order melatonin (and other supplements) from there instead.

[bunnydrops]

Works for me. And like was mentioned before-- helps with jet lag.

[balo]

You guys shouldn't be buying the most expensive version of melatonin (Circadin). The wasted money may end up adding to your sleeplessness.

The price difference is enormous if you do the calculations (which I have a habit of doing for everything, either using a spreadsheet if I'm at home, or in my head whilst out shopping).

e.g.:

On iherb, Now Foods Melatonin (10mg * 100 = 1000mg total) costs around 407 THB. So that's 0.40736 THB per mg.

At Lab Pharmacy Silom Complex, Circadin (2mg * 30 = 60mg total) costs 570 THB. So that's 9.5 THB per mg

At Boots Silom Complex it was even more expensive: 630 THB (10.5 THB per mg)

So Circadin is over 23 times as expensive!

Get on the internet (e.g. iherb.com) and order melatonin (and other supplements) from there instead.

That's what I've been keep telling people living here all the time , but no , they like to waste their money .

I buy all my vitamins and some organic food on iHerb.com , very cheap delivery costs to Thailand and no problems with the custom as long as the package is small (under 3kg) .

Edited July 8, 2016 by balo

[dddave]

FWIW, this recent New York Times article on phone apps designed to aid sleep might be of interest to some of you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/technology/personaltech/a-snooze-worthy-app-collection-to-add-to-the-smartphone.html?ref=technology

I have no idea of how effective these apps are but germane to this long discussion.

I periodically suffer from too little sleep..I'm 73 and sleep difficulties seem to go with the age. I seem to get to sleep initially OK, but often wake up after two or three hours and can not return to sleep. I've stayed away from most sleep meds and drugs but I sometimes find that taking two 200mg. Ibuprofin at bedtime helps me to sleep longer. Occasionally seems to cause vivid dreams.

I have also found the widely and cheaply available sinus medication, Cetirizine dhHCL, 10mg makes me very drowsy and does not seem to cause any side effects except for dry mouth.

I used to enjoy playing golf so sometimes I try imagining playing a round of golf at a familiar course, shot by shot...usually I doze off by the 3rd hole.

I remember reading that the Endocrine system in our bodies does most of it's work at night, during sleep. Sometimes when I wake up at 2 or 3am, I feel really wired and restless and have wondered if that restlessness could be connected to the Endocrine system working.

[harness]

At a bare minimum give up all caffeine.Even a cup of decaf can be detected in certain heart tests. Some people I know drink coffee before bed and sleep well.....but if you have developed some sort of hyper sensitivity to caffeine as you've got older then that drug can mess with your sleep big time.

Could be all sorts of things causing your insomnia but that's where you've got to start......NO CAFFEINE.