Greek campaigns, neck and neck, reach dramatic finale

[Lite Beer]

Greek campaigns, neck and neck, reach dramatic finale
DEREK GATOPOULOS, Associated Press
MENELAOS HADJICOSTIS, Associated Press

ATHENS, Greece (AP) — Greeks packed city squares for dueling rallies late into the night Friday, as polls showed a dead heat between the 'yes' and 'no' camps ahead of a bailout referendum Sunday that could be Greece's most important vote since it joined the European Union.

More than 40,000 people gathered at the two rallies, half a mile (800 meters) apart, before Sunday's vote on whether to accept creditors' proposals for more austerity in exchange for rescue loans, or reject the deal as a show of defiance against years of harsh economic austerity.

"This is not a protest. It is a celebration to overcome fear and blackmail," Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras told a crowd of 25,000 in front of parliament, who were chanting "oxi, oxi" — "no, no." Tsipras angered Greece's creditors by calling the referendum and is urging Greeks to vote no.

Meanwhile, police said about 17,000 people gathered outside the nearby Panathenian stadium for the "yes" rally, waving Greek and European Union flags and chanting "Greece, Europe, Democracy."

Rallies for both campaigns were also held in 10 other Greek cities Friday.

Tsipras is gambling the future of his five-month-old left wing government on Sunday's snap poll — insisting a "no" vote will strengthen his hand to negotiate a third bailout with better terms.

But the high-stakes standoff with lenders this week saw Greece default on debts, close banks to avoid their collapse, and lose access to billions of euros as an existing bailout deal expired.

At the "no" rally, Athens resident Maria Antiniou held a handmade sign, reading "oxi."

"We have to strengthen Tsipras. It's not his fault we are bankrupt," she said.

"He doesn't have the mandate to take tougher measures and now we are giving that to him. It's not true this is a vote on the euro. It's a vote to change course and stay in the euro, and Tsipras is our best hope," she said.

That is a message the "yes" voters refuse believe.

Evgenia Bouzala, a Greek born in Germany, said she was considering shutting down her olive oil export business because of the financial turmoil.

"I don't think we can keep going. Look at what happened in the last three days. Imagine if that lasts another six months," she said.

"A 'yes' vote would bring a caretaker government and that would probably be better ... We have to start over."

The drama remained high in the final hours of campaigning.

The country's top court stayed in session till the late afternoon before rejecting a petition to declare the referendum illegal, while party leaders, personalities, and church elders weighed in with impassioned pleas to vote "no" or "yes" on the airwaves and social media.

In a rare public declaration, 16 former armed forces leaders wrote an appeal to citizens to show "calm and national unity."

A series of polls published Friday at the end of a frantic weeklong campaign showed the two sides in a dead heat, with an incremental lead of the "yes" vote well within the margin of error.

But they showed an overwhelming majority of people — about 75 percent — want Greece to remain in the euro currency.

Much of the ambiguity arises from the complicated question on the ballot paper:

"Must the agreement plan submitted by the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund to the Eurogroup of 25 June, 2015, and comprised of two parts which make up their joint proposal, be accepted? The first document is titled 'reforms for the completion of the current program and beyond' and the second 'Preliminary debt sustainability analysis.'"

Voters are asked to check one of two boxes: "not approved/no" and — below it — "approved/yes."

"People don't even understand the question," Athens Mayor George Kaminis told supporters at the "yes" rally.

"We have been dragged into a pointless referendum that is dividing the people and hurting the country."

Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis told Ireland's RTE radio Friday that an agreement with creditors "is more or less done" and that the only issue left is debt relief.

But the head of the eurozone finance ministers' group, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, rejected the idea, pointing out that negotiations had been broken off.

"There are no new proposals from our side and, whatever happens, the future for Greece will be extremely tough," Dijsselbloem said.

"To get Greece back on track and the economy out of the slump, tough decisions will have to be taken and every politician that says that won't be the case following a 'no' vote is deceiving his population."

Germany's finance minister, Wolfgang Schaeuble told his country's Bild daily that any negotiations after the Greek vote "will take a while."

No campaigning is allowed the day before an election in Greece, so Friday's rallies were the closing salvoes in the battle to persuade voters ahead of Sunday.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-07-04

[ezzra]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

[simple1]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

If the Greeks vote 'No' they will have to exit the Eurozone. They will have to convert to drachma meaning a depreciation of anywhere between 20% - 85% in the short term.

[Kalbo]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

If the Greeks vote 'No' they will have to exit the Eurozone. They will have to convert to drachma meaning a depreciation of anywhere between 20% - 85% in the short term.

And that would mean some very nice cheap holidays in Greece,as I remember they used to be in the 1980's

[BuaBS]

So the Greeks are supposed to be lazy , but they can organize a referendum in less than 1 week.....

It takes Cameron more than 2 years to set up the same (fake) referendum .

[SOTIRIOS]

........good luck........

...better push for the German money owed.......

[Anthony5]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

If the Greeks vote 'No' they will have to exit the Eurozone. They will have to convert to drachma meaning a depreciation of anywhere between 20% - 85% in the short term.

If the Greeks vote "NO", Tsipras is in a much stronger position to set the rules for the deal, that will be agreed to by the EC at all costs.

[TimmyT]

when somebody lends you money and asks it back it is called "blackmail"?

bravo Mr Tsipras! you show the whole world what does it mean to be a populist, a demagogue - in the country where both of this terms were invented about 2,5 thousand years ago.

you will teach other nations a great lesson.

Edited July 4, 2015 by TimmyT

[soumanioco]

What you're all watching here, but very few of you can grasp, is the germanisation of Europe, step one.

More to follow.

[micmichd]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

Issue of the referendum:

Either democracy or Euro slavery.

[sirineou]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

If the Greeks vote 'No' they will have to exit the Eurozone. They will have to convert to drachma meaning a depreciation of anywhere between 20% - 85% in the short term.

There are only two ways Greece can get out of this difficult economic situation, one is debt write off and the other is economic growth

austerity is decreasing domestic consumption, so the only conceivable way to grow the Greek economy is external stimulus.

A depreciated Drachma might not be such a bad thing for Greece, it would make Greek exports less expensive, and increase tourism , combine this with structural reforms and it could be the only way out of this for Greece.

A Yes vote would be very foolish in my opinion, unless there is massive haircut on the Greek debt ,with a strong Euro depressing Greek exports , the Greek economy will limp along, the Greek people will suffer, and Greece will eventually default on it's debt.

Under the current agreement, if accepted with a Yes vote, the only people who will benefit would be the Creditors. The current agreement is not a bail out for Greece it is a bail out for the creditors on the back of Greek pensioners.

[Scott]

A post with an a graphic in a foreign language has been removed. Only English is allowed in this section of the forum.

[TheAppletons]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

If the Greeks vote 'No' they will have to exit the Eurozone. They will have to convert to drachma meaning a depreciation of anywhere between 20% - 85% in the short term.

If the Greeks vote "NO", Tsipras is in a much stronger position to set the rules for the deal, that will be agreed to by the EC at all costs.

That's what he thinks, lol. I suspect the rest of the EU has other thoughts.

[Anthony5]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

If the Greeks vote 'No' they will have to exit the Eurozone. They will have to convert to drachma meaning a depreciation of anywhere between 20% - 85% in the short term.

If the Greeks vote "NO", Tsipras is in a much stronger position to set the rules for the deal, that will be agreed to by the EC at all costs.

That's what he thinks, lol. I suspect the rest of the EU has other thoughts.

Indeed the rest of the EU thinks different. Unfortunately the decision makers are not the rest of the EU, but a handful of politicians who's only purpose for the deal is to save their own <deleted>.

[stevenl]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

If the Greeks vote 'No' they will have to exit the Eurozone. They will have to convert to drachma meaning a depreciation of anywhere between 20% - 85% in the short term.

I think the main problem here is that nobody knows exactly what they are voting about: what consequences do a 'yes' and a 'no' vote have?

[BuaBS]

From German HandelsBlad:

[simple1]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

If the Greeks vote 'No' they will have to exit the Eurozone. They will have to convert to drachma meaning a depreciation of anywhere between 20% - 85% in the short term.

I think the main problem here is that nobody knows exactly what they are voting about: what consequences do a 'yes' and a 'no' vote have?

As the OP states either way the general Greek population are in for a hard time. I would assume Greece requires inbound foreign investment that would be more difficult to obtain if they go with the 'No' vote thereby making life even harder in the coming years.

[sotsira]

I never did understand how the theory of the single euro currency created by the Euro big guns

could ever work.

How can 25 or so separate countries independently governed with vast differences in economic

structure all share the same currency and expect them all to grow as one without the weaker

economies fall by the wayside?

As it's being proven with the problems over the last 5 years with Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Spain and Greece.

Who's next ?

And why are the likes of the UK, Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc, who are not in the Euro currency better off

for it?

Doesn't it show that the German/ French euro ideology is flawed?

[bassman]

And why are the likes of the UK, Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc, who are not in the Euro currency better off

for it?

Let me take a guess ...because there are no southern European nations in the list?

[wabothai]

It can be made simple by saying , Greece will NEVER make it on its own in this ever more becoming diificult world.

Greece needs Europe and better vote "yes".

A far left government (and some of their believers on this forum) will eventually destroy Greece.

A "yes" vote will get rid of them on monday and will change the tides for the better.

Yes and I am left of the center.

[wabothai]

Where by the way is our Creek friend? We miss him.

[micmichd]

Guess on, maybe you find someone to blame it on east European countries.

Maybe someone will find out that various national political systems and one common currency don't go together well.

[oldgit]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

If the Greeks vote 'No' they will have to exit the Eurozone. They will have to convert to drachma meaning a depreciation of anywhere between 20% - 85% in the short term.

If the Greeks vote "NO", Tsipras is in a much stronger position to set the rules for the deal, that will be agreed to by the EC at all costs.

I agree, because the EU wouldn't want Russia stepping into the breach with monetary aid, as they intimated they would a few months back at the Kremlin. Putin would like nothing better than to make Europe sweat.

[sirineou]

It can be made simple by saying , Greece will NEVER make it on its own in this ever more becoming diificult world.

Greece needs Europe and better vote "yes".

A far left government (and some of their believers on this forum) will eventually destroy Greece.

A "yes" vote will get rid of them on monday and will change the tides for the better.

Yes and I am left of the center.

As you said Greece would not make it on it's own. No country does, that is why we have all these different economic zones.

Greece needs Europe and Europe needs Greece . As Oldgit very astutely observed Russia will love to step in to the breach.

Greece has very long Historical and cultural ties with Russia, and Russia always treated Greece with respect. Where Germany not long ago killed one third of it's population and destroyed it's infrastructure, for which has not yet paid reparations, and now is referring to them as "Pigs".

What do you think would happen if Greece leaves the Union?

Do you Think getting "rid of them" it will change the tides for the better?

By the way, this situation is weakening the Euro, who do you think is benefiting the most from a weak Euro? who is the main exporter nation in Europe

In addition, a Grexit will signal to the markets and other member nations,the fact that the EU is not permanent, it is a marriage of convenience and could end whenever it became inconvenient. And if there is one thing Markets don't like the most, it is uncertainty.,

Europe will not allow Greece to exit the Union, already EU president Tusk is saying that a NO vote is not a referendum on Euro membership, http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/03/eurozone-greece-tusk-idUSB5N0YY00520150703

[ggt]

Regardless of the Yes or No vote...Greece is in serious trouble financially...they can not pay their bills...are fighting with their creditors...and do not want to do the necessary belt tightening to give hope for their future...

Many countries are just behind Greece in respect to not being able to pay their creditors...the US included...The US Federal Reserve prints money out of thin air and then buys US Treasury Bonds to help keep the country afloat...this can not go on indefinitely...

This does not bode well for the economic future of the world...could be extremely hard times ahead for all peoples...

Think about your future...do not hold on to gobs of fiat currencies...

Paper money...may be used to light cigars one day...having lost its value...

[sotsira]

And why are the likes of the UK, Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc, who are not in the Euro currency better off

for it?

Let me take a guess ...because there are no southern European nations in the list?

Very true, and emphasises the great divide that Europe has between north and south.

So the single Euro currency is a flawed system!

[Srikcir]

Referendum for what? they're screwed which ever way they will vote,,, just come to show that

years of songs, wine and we don't care attitude come to bare hard....

If the Greeks vote 'No' they will have to exit the Eurozone. They will have to convert to drachma meaning a depreciation of anywhere between 20% - 85% in the short term.

If the Greeks vote "NO", Tsipras is in a much stronger position to set the rules for the deal, that will be agreed to by the EC at all costs.

DISAGREE.

Tsipras has nothing to negotiate with a majority NO vote. But he will have a good excuse for continuing to bing PM and that's all the referendum is about - keeping himself in power no matter the damage to the Greek economy.

[englishoak]

Karmas a bitch sometimes.

Edited July 4, 2015 by englishoak

[BuaBS]

And why are the likes of the UK, Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc, who are not in the Euro currency better off

for it?

Let me take a guess ...because there are no southern European nations in the list?

Ok , but why are south-eastern that haven't got the euro doing better ? (like Romania & Bulgaria & Croatia.)

Edited July 5, 2015 by BuaBS

[Basil B]

Turkeys voting for Christmas...