Hispanic leaders want GOP field to condemn Trump's 'idiocy'

[chuckd]

Ted Nugent to DC political class: Prove Trump a liar, or shut up

... For the record, I dare anybody to show me one word from Trump that isn’t accurate. What sort of denial gagged liar denies that our country is being invaded by drug-runners, murderers and rapists? What sort of denial gagged liar could possibly believe Trump meant legal immigrants?”

Read more: http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/07/09/ted-nugent-to-dc-political-class-prove-trump-a-liar-or-shut-up-222902#ixzz3fXH8o0zb

And this means what? Nugent was a pretty good rocker back in the day, not a great one. Now he's just a right-wing nutter that no one takes seriously (well, maybe except other right-wing nutters). Didn't Nugent promise to leave the US if President Obama was reelected?

I don't recall Nugent saying that but I am not saying you are wrong.

I do recall some of those so-called stars from Hollywood saying that they were leaving if Bush got elected.

Guess what? They didn't leave either.

[chuckd]

Immigration has always been a matter of civil law because immigrants are trying to make a new life in America, not a mafia. Civil law involves penalties, not punishments.

The right is however dominated by white Anglo-Saxon Protestant old men who are obsessing against principles established in the Constitution and that in fact well precede the Constitution. Obsessing suddenly and in recent times.

Criminal law applies to every person in the United States and it involves punishment. Deportation is a penalty and incarceration is a punishment. It's pretty basic Americanism. So this means the extremists on the far out right wing aren't going to change much regardless of how determined, relentless, fanatical they are in their willful negativism. .

https://www.youtube.com/embed/AiE_RmwdWys

Nobody is claiming that the immigration laws are not civil laws.

What many are claiming, myself included, is that the civil laws become criminal in nature WHEN THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CHOOSE TO ENTER THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY.

I don't mean to shout but you keep harping on the civil law nonsense when, in effect, it has nothing to do with this conversation. Legal immigration is not in question here or anywhere else on the forum that I know of.

Give it a rest.

[Publicus]

Ted Nugent to DC political class: Prove Trump a liar, or shut up

... For the record, I dare anybody to show me one word from Trump that isn’t accurate. What sort of denial gagged liar denies that our country is being invaded by drug-runners, murderers and rapists? What sort of denial gagged liar could possibly believe Trump meant legal immigrants?”

Read more: http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/07/09/ted-nugent-to-dc-political-class-prove-trump-a-liar-or-shut-up-222902#ixzz3fXH8o0zb

Nugent is not a good person to look to for support (but then I'm talking to wingnuts about wingnuts aren't I).

In the 2012 campaign that re-elected Prez Obama, Nugent was visited by Secret Service for brazen public statements at an NRA convention which even I considered shockingly suggestive of personal violence should Prez Obama be re-elected.

Secret Service agents and the nutso Nugent concluded their confidential meeting by saying whatever it had been was patched up and everyone was, basically, on an even keel. I have no patience for Ted Nugent or anyone like him.

Find a crackpot nutter to quote that hasn't been investigated yet by the Secret Service cause you've gone OTT again on this one too.

http://www.mtv.com/news/1683461/ted-nugent-president-obama-secret-service/

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/02/21/here-are-13-other-repugnant-comments-ted-nugent/198174

Trump's problem btw is that he says whatever gets headlines regardless of whether it is true, factual, pulled out of his arse or whatever. Trump sees a camera coming and he starts making things up in the most outrageous ways that an egomaniac whack job billionaire can concoct. Keep defending and supporting him though cause it's called taking in all the rope you're handed and doing it hand over fist at that.

[arjunadawn]

Asserting "illegals" are illegals is accurate, by definition. Notwithstanding the fact that immigration law is civil. It is not possible in the subject matter we are discussing to be wrong but it is possible to be deceived. A previous assertion that immigration law is civil alone is both correct, and grossly misleading. Why? Because illegals- which they are- are not illegals because they are unlawfully present (Unlawful Presence) in the US, they are illegals because of improperly entering (Improper Entry) the US- a violation of US Federal law criminal, a misdemeanor, but criminal= illegals! When one reads any post that uses words such as "extreme[ist]" one should consider carefully what is being said. 1/2 truths necessarily are not true.

Its always language and meaning; language is always the second victim of liberalism. There is always a good faith effort to inflict liberal will first but when the subject (audience) is not receptive, language and meaning always become the secondary targets in political systems under siege. In these various threads we can witness the liberal mind's default refuge of denying facts by opposing meaning. Into this mix the prime hope is smoke and mirrors; confuse the issues so the target audience is unaware where truth lie. Couple this obfuscation with subsequent demonization and ridicule of an opposing position and the entire liberal playbook is exposed. There will always be an adjunct vilification or ridicule by liberals upon those who point out the bankruptcy of their views regarding their tactics, such as changing word meaning. When one reads any liberal response that also includes closing commentary of a personal or ridiculing nature on an opposing view, watch your wallet, you are about to be intellectually robbed. This is how a liberal mind will work every time. It is not simply mechanics, this is a wholly morally vacant place to be. This is not simply a different manner of achieving political ends or gaslighting it is an inherent Machiavellian quality; always inferior reasoning.

<<snip>>

To refer to any person in the USA at any time for any reason as singularly an "illegal" and to pluralize it to singularly reference "illegals" denies SCOTUS and the Constitution, which mandate that each and every person present in the United States is a legal person. Concomitantly, to use the word "criminal" leaps OTT and it may in itself suggest a criminal mindset or sub-cultural pursuits.

Every US citizen/national is obligated to respect the fact of law and constitutionalism. This is true despite the pseudo Freudian angst of the Austrian school and its hard core militant right doomsday subscribers out there on the margin of contemporary American/Western society, culture, civilisation.

Every immigrant regardless of documentation status is a legal person. This is true in civil law because it is a basic tenet and principle of liberal democracy and a civilized society. The lessons of 1914-1945 mandate that we pursue the rule of law in stark contrast to the rule of ideology by its bent ideologues of ethnicity, race, genetics.

To target or label undocumented immigrants that are Constitutionally protected, as instead being "illegals" or "criminals" constitutes an agenda of vilification, exclusion, punishment.

Civil law provides penalties, such as deportation, rather than punishments such as incarceration or execution. Beyond this, criminal laws apply to everyone regardless and equally. Accordingly, it is OTT to try to transmogrify the largely normal and routinely historical matter of immigration or immigrants into an incendiary one.

Pic removed for space- sorry- AD

This is an example of progressive incrementalism, the terrible medicine that is destroying the western world. Example: the separation of church and state applied to preference or prejudice with regard to the state and religion in the conduct of State business but now it has gradually extended into all manner of insidious facets of life in the US. From the town common to highway byways to courthouse steps to cemeteries for dead veterans, if there is evidence that a citizen believes in (christian) god, it must be removed from public display. Of course, it was never the intention to divorce society from the wellspring that gave it life. I have no use for religion myself but that is not the point of the militant nihilism that removes religion from all facets of life in society, it is poorly concealed rage and war on all things not of their own worldview. Indeed, religion is nullified under the stalking horse that the courts simple declare this or that. In time, the courts became populated by the same miscreants that sought to manipulate meaning in the first place- progressive, incremental nihilism. (Start with the school children- Dewey).

In fact, the same mechanics applies equally to such nonsense as the above post suggesting it is (absurdly ironic) illegal to use the term illegals! You cannot make this crap up! Some people cannot intellectually discern the forest from the trees. SCOTUS can say whatever the hell it wants and likewise Americans can associate, assemble, and use whatever form of speech they want to label, describe, and declare as they will. Whether or not all people physically present in the US have equal protection under the constitutional framework does not absolve populations of accountability for crimes. Following this logic all drug dealers are not criminals. (All illegals are criminals. I presume using the term criminals is equally unacceptable?)

As I have stated previously when intellectual arguments fail the default mechanism for the liberal/socialist mind is next meaning. It happens every time and I would not be entirely convinced it is accidental; there is a rational faculty corruption that pipelines this secondary logic in liberals' minds rather than there being a universal playbook (which there also is). Lets be clear: all parties have historically used the term illegals to describe something that is basically... illegal!

It is only a recent contrivance (see above, playbook) to change meaning and argue that "illegals" is disparaging, or to apply court directives that apply to the State erroneously to the individual attempting to force state compliance on individual association and thought and speech. The same mechanics apply equally to the tactical book evidenced during the gay rights debate (no, this is not an observation on the merits of that issue, just the tactics of the left), the debate about the invasion of the United States by legal and illegal immigrants, the incumbent duties of state with regard to environmental protection being forced on individuals, the dedicated removal of church and... all things from public witnessing. Indeed, nearly every issue of the liberal agenda first gets assaulted, then words and meaning are changed, and then it is typically noted that thought policing or speech and association are addresses as individual duties.

Americans have refereed to illegals as illegals because they are illegals. It is not more complicated then this. Following the retarded logic above Americans could be forced to call oranges turnips- they are not! You might apply deceit and coercion to gradually inculcate into Americans that oranges are turnips but you would likely find you needed to start... in kindergarten and reeducate an entire population. Ah, the left thought of this. Well, illegals are illegals are illegals and the only people who are lately finding that objectionable are people who previously knew they were all illegals, referred to them also as illegals, and now have changed their mind and now are changing the meaning and now are trying to get others to change their mind. They are illegals.

"...denied SCOTUS meaning." haha. This is so... ridiculous.

[Publicus]

Immigration has always been a matter of civil law because immigrants are trying to make a new life in America, not a mafia. Civil law involves penalties, not punishments.

The right is however dominated by white Anglo-Saxon Protestant old men who are obsessing against principles established in the Constitution and that in fact well precede the Constitution. Obsessing suddenly and in recent times.

Criminal law applies to every person in the United States and it involves punishment. Deportation is a penalty and incarceration is a punishment. It's pretty basic Americanism. So this means the extremists on the far out right wing aren't going to change much regardless of how determined, relentless, fanatical they are in their willful negativism. .

https://www.youtube.com/embed/AiE_RmwdWys

Nobody is claiming that the immigration laws are not civil laws.

What many are claiming, myself included, is that the civil laws become criminal in nature WHEN THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CHOOSE TO ENTER THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY.

I don't mean to shout but you keep harping on the civil law nonsense when, in effect, it has nothing to do with this conversation. Legal immigration is not in question here or anywhere else on the forum that I know of.

Give it a rest.

Give it a rest.

The far out right has lost another concocted campaign to change to its bents the laws and the Constitution, this time on immigration law as it has existed since 1789.

The right is relentlessly campaigning to impose a 180-degree reversal of immigration to the United States as it existed from before the place was the United States, i.e., from 1620 to the present.

The fringe right cannot win on this because Americans will not criminalize immigration or immigrants. Americans will not apply the presumption of guilt to a foreigner in the US solely because the foreigner is a foreigner, or for any other unconstitutional reason or basis.

Immigrant criminals need to be dealt as they have always been dealt with under the criminal laws and the Constitution.

Undocumented immigrants are not in violation of criminal law, never have been. Immigration per se and immigrants per se are matters of civil law and they always have been.

So we see that the right sector are radicals, they are not conservatives.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't recall Nugent saying that but I am not saying you are wrong.

You don't recall Nugent saying that, because he didn't - although he has said plenty of other nutty stuff. I am no fan of him or his music.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[AYJAYDEE]

I don't recall Nugent saying that but I am not saying you are wrong.

You don't recall Nugent saying that, because he didn't - although he has said plenty of other nutty stuff. I am no fan of him or his music.

no it was even better, he said he's either be dead or in jail.

[Publicus]

I don't recall Nugent saying that but I am not saying you are wrong.

You don't recall Nugent saying that, because he didn't - although he has said plenty of other nutty stuff. I am no fan of him or his music.

I state for the record neither of the posts are addressed to me.

Both posts refer to another poster.

Here is what Ted Nugent said in the election year 2012 to bring him face to face with the Secret Service.....

If Barack Obama becomes the president in November, again, I will be either be dead or in jail by this time next year.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/04/quote-of-the-day-ted-nugent-threatens-barack-obama/256025/

Nugent made the shocking statement at a shocking NRA convention the same year. The NRA is the National Rifle Association of 4 million right wingnuts, to include American members who reside abroad..

Edited July 11, 2015 by Publicus

[cdnvic]

Let's stick to discussing Trump, not the last US election.

[chuckd]

Perhaps Trump has more support from the populace than others might think.

Here are some interesting polls taken by Rasmussen concerning the topic of border protection, deportation of illegal immigrants and in perhaps the most dangerous of all, immigrants getting the vote.

1. Support for More Border Control Hits Four-Year High

Link http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/archive/immigration_update_archive/support_for_more_border_control_hits_four_year_high

2. Most Voters Want More Aggressive Deportation Policies

Link: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/archive/immigration_update_archive/most_voters_want_more_aggressive_deportation_policies

3. Most Democrats Think Illegal Immigrants Should Vote

Link: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/may_2015/most_democrats_think_illegal_immigrants_should_vote

It will be argued that Rasmussen is a Republican, right wing, wacko, NRA supporting polling company.

My suggestion is you cut through all that BS, open the sites and read how the questions were phrased.

Form your own opinions without all the bluster and rhetoric that will follow.

[Publicus]

Asserting "illegals" are illegals is accurate, by definition. Notwithstanding the fact that immigration law is civil. It is not possible in the subject matter we are discussing to be wrong but it is possible to be deceived. A previous assertion that immigration law is civil alone is both correct, and grossly misleading. Why? Because illegals- which they are- are not illegals because they are unlawfully present (Unlawful Presence) in the US, they are illegals because of improperly entering (Improper Entry) the US- a violation of US Federal law criminal, a misdemeanor, but criminal= illegals! When one reads any post that uses words such as "extreme[ist]" one should consider carefully what is being said. 1/2 truths necessarily are not true.

Its always language and meaning; language is always the second victim of liberalism. There is always a good faith effort to inflict liberal will first but when the subject (audience) is not receptive, language and meaning always become the secondary targets in political systems under siege. In these various threads we can witness the liberal mind's default refuge of denying facts by opposing meaning. Into this mix the prime hope is smoke and mirrors; confuse the issues so the target audience is unaware where truth lie. Couple this obfuscation with subsequent demonization and ridicule of an opposing position and the entire liberal playbook is exposed. There will always be an adjunct vilification or ridicule by liberals upon those who point out the bankruptcy of their views regarding their tactics, such as changing word meaning. When one reads any liberal response that also includes closing commentary of a personal or ridiculing nature on an opposing view, watch your wallet, you are about to be intellectually robbed. This is how a liberal mind will work every time. It is not simply mechanics, this is a wholly morally vacant place to be. This is not simply a different manner of achieving political ends or gaslighting it is an inherent Machiavellian quality; always inferior reasoning.

<<snip>>

To refer to any person in the USA at any time for any reason as singularly an "illegal" and to pluralize it to singularly reference "illegals" denies SCOTUS and the Constitution, which mandate that each and every person present in the United States is a legal person. Concomitantly, to use the word "criminal" leaps OTT and it may in itself suggest a criminal mindset or sub-cultural pursuits.

Every US citizen/national is obligated to respect the fact of law and constitutionalism. This is true despite the pseudo Freudian angst of the Austrian school and its hard core militant right doomsday subscribers out there on the margin of contemporary American/Western society, culture, civilisation.

Every immigrant regardless of documentation status is a legal person. This is true in civil law because it is a basic tenet and principle of liberal democracy and a civilized society. The lessons of 1914-1945 mandate that we pursue the rule of law in stark contrast to the rule of ideology by its bent ideologues of ethnicity, race, genetics.

To target or label undocumented immigrants that are Constitutionally protected, as instead being "illegals" or "criminals" constitutes an agenda of vilification, exclusion, punishment.

Civil law provides penalties, such as deportation, rather than punishments such as incarceration or execution. Beyond this, criminal laws apply to everyone regardless and equally. Accordingly, it is OTT to try to transmogrify the largely normal and routinely historical matter of immigration or immigrants into an incendiary one.

Pic removed for space- sorry- AD

This is an example of progressive incrementalism, the terrible medicine that is destroying the western world. Example: the separation of church and state applied to preference or prejudice with regard to the state and religion in the conduct of State business but now it has gradually extended into all manner of insidious facets of life in the US. From the town common to highway byways to courthouse steps to cemeteries for dead veterans, if there is evidence that a citizen believes in (christian) god, it must be removed from public display. Of course, it was never the intention to divorce society from the wellspring that gave it life. I have no use for religion myself but that is not the point of the militant nihilism that removes religion from all facets of life in society, it is poorly concealed rage and war on all things not of their own worldview. Indeed, religion is nullified under the stalking horse that the courts simple declare this or that. In time, the courts became populated by the same miscreants that sought to manipulate meaning in the first place- progressive, incremental nihilism. (Start with the school children- Dewey).

In fact, the same mechanics applies equally to such nonsense as the above post suggesting it is (absurdly ironic) illegal to use the term illegals! You cannot make this crap up! Some people cannot intellectually discern the forest from the trees. SCOTUS can say whatever the hell it wants and likewise Americans can associate, assemble, and use whatever form of speech they want to label, describe, and declare as they will. Whether or not all people physically present in the US have equal protection under the constitutional framework does not absolve populations of accountability for crimes. Following this logic all drug dealers are not criminals. (All illegals are criminals. I presume using the term criminals is equally unacceptable?)

As I have stated previously when intellectual arguments fail the default mechanism for the liberal/socialist mind is next meaning. It happens every time and I would not be entirely convinced it is accidental; there is a rational faculty corruption that pipelines this secondary logic in liberals' minds rather than there being a universal playbook (which there also is). Lets be clear: all parties have historically used the term illegals to describe something that is basically... illegal!

It is only a recent contrivance (see above, playbook) to change meaning and argue that "illegals" is disparaging, or to apply court directives that apply to the State erroneously to the individual attempting to force state compliance on individual association and thought and speech. The same mechanics apply equally to the tactical book evidenced during the gay rights debate (no, this is not an observation on the merits of that issue, just the tactics of the left), the debate about the invasion of the United States by legal and illegal immigrants, the incumbent duties of state with regard to environmental protection being forced on individuals, the dedicated removal of church and... all things from public witnessing. Indeed, nearly every issue of the liberal agenda first gets assaulted, then words and meaning are changed, and then it is typically noted that thought policing or speech and association are addresses as individual duties.

Americans have refereed to illegals as illegals because they are illegals. It is not more complicated then this. Following the retarded logic above Americans could be forced to call oranges turnips- they are not! You might apply deceit and coercion to gradually inculcate into Americans that oranges are turnips but you would likely find you needed to start... in kindergarten and reeducate an entire population. Ah, the left thought of this. Well, illegals are illegals are illegals and the only people who are lately finding that objectionable are people who previously knew they were all illegals, referred to them also as illegals, and now have changed their mind and now are changing the meaning and now are trying to get others to change their mind. They are illegals.

"...denied SCOTUS meaning." haha. This is so... ridiculous.

This is radical stuff that has nothing to do with conservative politics, conservatism as a political philosophy, or mainstream conservative values; beliefs.

It is radical thinking from a little known extreme fringe on the really far out right that is as far out on the radical right as one can go or get. The most extreme of the extreme.

And all of this drum roll and torchlight herald trumpeting comes without one mention of their hero Trump.

[LomSak27]

I do recall some of those so-called stars from Hollywood saying that they were leaving if Bush got elected.

Guess what? They didn't leave either.

Chukd, we have the Terrible Ted quote up and on the board, why not enlighten us as to what stars were going to leave the US if Bush was elected . I assume that was 04 election.

It's not that I don't believe you but as I work with a bunch of Fox news watching cons. If a 'hollywoood' type said that, I am certain they would have been bellowing about it for the last, oh, 11 years.

FYI - If the GOP cannot muzzle Trump in the next month, whatever Democrat candidate is chosen, will be a lock to win the election .... Whether that's Benghazi Clinton, Bernie or Jimmy Carter. This election could be over by August

Edited July 12, 2015 by LomSak27

[Berkshire]

FYI - If the GOP cannot muzzle Trump in the next month, whatever Democrat candidate is chosen, will be a lock to win the election .... Whether that's Benghazi Clinton, Bernie or Jimmy Carter. This election could be over by August

Exactly right. The GOP leadership knows that Trump is seriously damaging the Republican brand. But because he's a wealthy business man, they're powerless to stop him. So the other GOP candidates will be forced to answer the difficult questions about immigration. Problem is, it's difficult because there are no easy answers. The only real fix that might work (and that their base wants to hear) is to seal off the borders and shoot everyone on-sight. If that ever happened, the world would be clamoring for the leader who issued those orders to be brought up for war crimes/crimes against humanity.

All these guys cheering for Trump, surely they realize that they're cheering for the demise of the GOP. The more support Trump gets for making these outrageous remarks, the more outrageous remarks he will make. Somewhere out there in some stale situation room, the Democrats are laughing their collective asses off.

[Publicus]

FYI - If the GOP cannot muzzle Trump in the next month, whatever Democrat candidate is chosen, will be a lock to win the election .... Whether that's Benghazi Clinton, Bernie or Jimmy Carter. This election could be over by August

Exactly right. The GOP leadership knows that Trump is seriously damaging the Republican brand. But because he's a wealthy business man, they're powerless to stop him. So the other GOP candidates will be forced to answer the difficult questions about immigration. Problem is, it's difficult because there are no easy answers. The only real fix that might work (and that their base wants to hear) is to seal off the borders and shoot everyone on-sight. If that ever happened, the world would be clamoring for the leader who issued those orders to be brought up for war crimes/crimes against humanity.

All these guys cheering for Trump, surely they realize that they're cheering for the demise of the GOP. The more support Trump gets for making these outrageous remarks, the more outrageous remarks he will make. Somewhere out there in some stale situation room, the Democrats are laughing their collective asses off.

whatever Democrat candidate is chosen, will be a lock to win the election .........Shhhhhhhhhh good Mr. Lom Sak27 ! The Democratic party are egging on The Donald in hope of pushing up the electoral college vote next election to 380.

the Democrats are laughing their collective asses off.......and ordering champagne besides, which as we know good Mr. Berkshire is because The Donald is God's Gift to the D party, the gift that keeps on giving, so we're working hard to keep him in the race for as long as possible, hopefully over the next 12 months.

With 270 Electoral College votes needed to be elected president....

Obama 362

McCain 176

Obama 332

Romney 206

The Republican party remains a great distance from the 270 EC votes needed to win.

.

The moneyed owners and the political operators of the Republican Party Inc know they have to handle The Donald with kid gloves because if the Trump feels badly treated by the R party in all of this, he can easily pull a Ross Perot to run as a third party candidate in the general election. That would nuke any remote hope the R party might have to win the presidency in the coming election, next year.

In 2008, McCain got 32% of the Hispanic vote.

In 2012, Romney got 27% of the Hispanic vote, and there were more Hispanic voters than in the previous election.

In 2016, R's need at least 40% of the Hispanic vote and 65% of the (non-Hispanic) white vote or they lose, period, end of. Romney got 59% of the white vote when he needed 61% of it, and there are fewer white voters to vote in 2016 than in either 2012 or 2008.

GOP = Gone Old Party

RIP GOP.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Publicus

[JDGRUEN]

It is amusing how a person who obviously has no idea about the core mindset of Moderates and Conservatives of the Republican Party plus (Independents and Libertarians) relative to how they perceive Trumps recent statements ventures into prognosticating about a dying Republican Party - when exactly the opposite is in play...

So never mind the surge of these same people in turning out for the 2010 Elections that took back the House of Representatives and did the same in 2014 to take by the U.S. Senate. Those were only Mid-Term Elections -- they mean nothing... yeah right...

These two coordinated voting actions by moderate to conservative voters have stifled the legislative agenda of Obama and his Administration thus hindering the Presidents vile intent. It means nothing to this out of touch prognosticator that millions upon millions of Americans oppose Obama and the Democrat Leftist Agenda - include his insidious plans to grant an Executive Amnesty.

Donald Trump has now stirred these same voters into action again - leaving only the task to develop Populist revolt against the leftist Democrats - who live in fantasy land believing they will roll into the White House again and continue their fascist onslaught against the American people...

But Lib-Left-Progs - wear horse blinders and think anything that happens outside their tunnel vision environment has no meaning except to decry and deny it... So they venture into vain attempts to ridicule and lampoon the growning Conservative and Moderate Might. For ridiculing and lampooning is their way of trying to destroy it - because they fear it.

Trump will not bow to the rabid Hispanic agitators who receive Federal money funneled to them by the Obama team to rabble rouse and oppose all comers... Rather - Trump will continue to appeal to the people as now he sees the path to success. Trump has seen the fear in the eyes of the leftists and just keeps marching on .... The prognostications of a tunnel vision Leftist matters nothing to the future ....

Edited July 12, 2015 by JDGRUEN

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[Publicus]

It is amusing how a person who obviously has no idea about the core mindset of Moderates and Conservatives of the Republican Party plus (Independents and Libertarians) relative to how they perceive Trumps recent statements ventures into prognosticating about a dying Republican Party - when exactly the opposite is in play...

So never mind the surge of these same people in turning out for the 2010 Elections that took back the House of Representatives and did the same in 2014 to take by the U.S. Senate. Those were only Mid-Term Elections -- they mean nothing... yeah right...

These two coordinated voting actions by moderate to conservative voters have stifled the legislative agenda of Obama and his Administration thus hindering the Presidents vile intent. It means nothing to this out of touch prognosticator that millions upon millions of Americans oppose Obama and the Democrat Leftist Agenda - include his insidious plans to grant an Executive Amnesty.

Donald Trump has now stirred these same voters into action again - leaving only the task to develop Populist revolt against the leftist Democrats - who live in fantasy land believing they will roll into the White House again and continue their fascist onslaught against the American people...

But Lib-Left-Progs - wear horse blinders and think anything that happens outside their tunnel vision environment has no meaning except to decry and deny it... So they venture into vain attempts to ridicule and lampoon the growning Conservative and Moderate Might. For ridiculing and lampooning is their way of trying to destroy it - because they fear it.

Trump will not bow to the rabid Hispanic agitators who receive Federal money funneled to them by the Obama team to rabble rouse and oppose all comers... Rather - Trump will continue to appeal to the people as now he sees the path to success. Trump has seen the fear in the eyes of the leftists and just keeps marching on .... The prognostications of a tunnel vision Leftist matters nothing to the future ....

a person who obviously has no idea..........It's not a good idea to go OTT in the first sentence.

thus hindering the Presidents vile intent..........yawn and zzzzzzzzz

Obama and the Democrat Leftist Agenda - include his insidious plans to grant an Executive Amnesty............Even the tea-bagged federal judge down Texas way said there is no amnesty in the President's immigration executive action, insidious or otherwise. Trying to criminalise immigration and immigrants per se is radical because it is against both the Constitution and American traditions, heritage, the core existence of America.

the rabid Hispanic agitators who receive Federal money funneled to them by the Obama team to rabble rouse and oppose all comers........ All comers would of course be Donald Trump who hasn't quite made this particular cynical claim just yet, but I'm confident The Donald is listening to the right people way out over there on the marginal and xenophobic far right....and on the rare occasions when Trump does listen.

continue their fascist onslaught against the American people... ...Do get some new or stronger meds plse thx and kindly stop putting it off

The post tries to soft peddle radical attitudes and reactionary thinking but it can't hide behind the narrow and dried up stem it it has left over.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Publicus

[JDGRUEN]

I notice some posters cannot argue the facts ...but only attempt to denigrate the other poster with cheap and deep criticism - and offer nothing related to the crux of the matter... Typical of Leftist ...

This paltry response is in concert with the defenselessness of the Obama Illegal Alien policy or more appropriately - The lack thereof....

Donald Trump - despite the outrage expressed by Hispanic leaders, the biased American news media and the constant drum beat of certain Leftist TVF Members... has STRUCK A CHORD with the American people ... And this is just the beginning of a LONG HOT SUMMER and even hotter Political Fall in America.

Already the Lib-Lefty-Progressives have shown they have NO ANSWER to Trump's sudden rise in popularity on this issues.

At the pace he is going, if Donald Trump keeps this aggressive pace ... by September Jeb Bush will drop out of the race. And other Republican Presidential Candidates will begin to mimic Donald Trump - then the entire Primary Presidential Campaign scene will change ... Even Hillary Clinton will begin to move to the middle and right... Bernie Sanders will lose all traction with his anything goes Socialist Agenda where Illegal Aliens automatically become citizens when barging into the U.S. over the Southern Border.

If Trump can keep his pace even Presidential Candidate Marco Rubio will begin echoing Trump's call to Control - Seal the Mexican Border.

Donald Trump is a GAME CHANGER ... and it has only just begun ... Soon other questions will arise - since Donald Trump will become the Teflon Man -- untouchable because he cannot be bought as our other Politicos can... Trump will cause a lot of nervousness... because the namby - pamby Republican Elitist Establishment who cannot be discerned from Democrats will become seriously worried about becoming an afterthought.

And FEAR will spread into the Democrat and Federal Bureaucrat Ranks - because Trump is a loose cannon in their eyes ... Trump may actually - as President prosecute senior IRS officials for their illegalities, even members of Congress who are on the take will become a bit shaky, Hillary and even Obama may be prosecuted for their heinous actions during the Benghazi tragedy... All levels of the Obama Administration will be in fear of having a successor who will prosecute them for their illegal excesses (Pun Intended)....

Trump will Close the Southern Border and freak out the Mexican President who - runs the risk of internal Revolution because the safety valve of pushing malcontents over the border will be closed ... Mexicans may actually start to think about fixing their own country where 35-40 ultra rich Families control all the wealth in Mexico -- protected by the STEAM BLOW OFF VALVE called sending all the excess to America.

I wish and HOPE that Trump can keep up the pace...

[JDGRUEN]

FYI - If the GOP cannot muzzle Trump in the next month, whatever Democrat candidate is chosen, will be a lock to win the election .... Whether that's Benghazi Clinton, Bernie or Jimmy Carter. This election could be over by August

Exactly right. The GOP leadership knows that Trump is seriously damaging the Republican brand. But because he's a wealthy business man, they're powerless to stop him. So the other GOP candidates will be forced to answer the difficult questions about immigration. Problem is, it's difficult because there are no easy answers. The only real fix that might work (and that their base wants to hear) is to seal off the borders and shoot everyone on-sight. If that ever happened, the world would be clamoring for the leader who issued those orders to be brought up for war crimes/crimes against humanity.

All these guys cheering for Trump, surely they realize that they're cheering for the demise of the GOP. The more support Trump gets for making these outrageous remarks, the more outrageous remarks he will make. Somewhere out there in some stale situation room, the Democrats are laughing their collective asses off.

The Elitist Establishment GOP/RNC known as the Republican - so called "Leadership" are destroying their own Brand ... and have been for several years...

What other group would denigrate and show hatred for 35 to 40 percent of their voting base as the GOP/RNC has?

If you do not know that this hatred for their own Conservative voters has been deeply expressed by many of the Republican 'leadership' - who have been very vocal with jabs, stabs and insults thrown up against the Conservative CORE of the Republican Party - then you exist in a vacuum ...

[Publicus]

Let's look at the historical trends in the Electoral College vote totals and in the Hispanic vote in presidential elections to find out why the Republican nominee for president is screwed, no matter who it may be.

Electoral College Vote, 270 needed to be elected president

1992

Clinton 370 +100

Bush 168

1996

Clinton 379 +109

Dole 159

2000

Bush 271 +1 (Bush, Bush and Bush actually) 50.4m popular votes

Gore 266 (winner of the popular vote) 50.9m popular votes

2004

Bush 286 +16

Kerry 251

2008

Obama 362 +92 .

McCain 176

2008

Obama 332 +62

Romney 206

In the Electoral College vote, if the Republican for president wins, he barely wins. The Democrat usually wins, and wins by a great margin.

In the popular vote for president, the Republicans have been maxed out at 60m votes....60.6m in 2004, 59.5m in 2008, 60.5m in 2012.

Conversely, Obama in 2008 fell a mite short of 70m. In 2012, Prez Obama got more than 65m.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/scores2.html#2004

The right wing in their hollerings about illegal aliens voting are presenting absolute hogwash. How many illegal aliens would have to vote to produce these historical and decisive vote totals and huge margins over such an extended period of time?

The historical Hispanic only vote for president......How Hispanics have voted for president.....

--1980 Jimmy Carter, 56% Ronald Reagan, 35% +21

--1984 Walter Mondale, 61% Ronald Reagan, 37% +24

--1988 Michael Dukakis, 69% George H.W. Bush, 30% +39

--1992 Bill Clinton, 61% George H.W. Bush, 25% +36

--1996 Bill Clinton, 72% Bob Dole, 21% +51

--2000 Al Gore, 62% George W. Bush, 35% +27

--2004 John Kerry, 58% George W. Bush, 40% +18

--2008 Barack Obama, 67% John McCain, 31% +36

--2012 Barack Obama, 71% Mitt Romney, 27% +44

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2958571/posts

One can easily see why the Republican party and the right wingers that control it are hysterical about Hispanic voters.

And anyone can easily see how and why the Democratic party and liberals throughout the country are sitting back popping corn, silently smiling at one another, watching the entertainer and his side show with a great fascination and amusement. This is not to detract from the serious xenophobia of Trump and the handful of Americans who are of his kind. It is to recognize Americans will never criminalize immigration or immigrants.

The mainstream determines the course of the United States. It always has, it always will. The fringe lunar orbiters remain out there in their natural habitat. Which is where they belong. Always.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Publicus

[Usernames]

Stop seeing Mexicans as one monolithic block of people. I was born and raised in Texas, and I actually prefer the Mexicans I grew up with more than the East and West Coast candyasses who are my fellow citizens. But those were Mexicans from the north and the border. We shared a similar culture and appreciation for things in life. What is coming across the border today is alien not only to the US but to the traditional borderland. Heck, a huge portion of them don't even speak Spanish, much less English. They speak a variety of Indian dialects. Granted, part of the problem WAS caused by the US and its NAFTA partners, which threw small farmers in Mexico into bankruptcy and replaced them with huge agribusinesses' conglomerates. It RUINED these people and their culture. It has done the same in the US. But the answer for Mexico is not to allow the 10 percent White Spaniard/European elite who have ruled over the country since its inception to dump their problems into the US. It's time for the "problems" to seize control of their own destiny and make a better Mexico. It saddens me to think of the Mexico of my youth, a country I loved and actually hoped to retire to one day. It has been turned into a sewer. And it will continue to be one until Mexicans throw out the monsters that exploit and rule over them. We should do the same in the US.

[Berkshire]

FYI - If the GOP cannot muzzle Trump in the next month, whatever Democrat candidate is chosen, will be a lock to win the election .... Whether that's Benghazi Clinton, Bernie or Jimmy Carter. This election could be over by August

Exactly right. The GOP leadership knows that Trump is seriously damaging the Republican brand. But because he's a wealthy business man, they're powerless to stop him. So the other GOP candidates will be forced to answer the difficult questions about immigration. Problem is, it's difficult because there are no easy answers. The only real fix that might work (and that their base wants to hear) is to seal off the borders and shoot everyone on-sight. If that ever happened, the world would be clamoring for the leader who issued those orders to be brought up for war crimes/crimes against humanity.

All these guys cheering for Trump, surely they realize that they're cheering for the demise of the GOP. The more support Trump gets for making these outrageous remarks, the more outrageous remarks he will make. Somewhere out there in some stale situation room, the Democrats are laughing their collective asses off.

The Elitist Establishment GOP/RNC known as the Republican - so called "Leadership" are destroying their own Brand ... and have been for several years...

What other group would denigrate and show hatred for 35 to 40 percent of their voting base as the GOP/RNC has?

If you do not know that this hatred for their own Conservative voters has been deeply expressed by many of the Republican 'leadership' - who have been very vocal with jabs, stabs and insults thrown up against the Conservative CORE of the Republican Party - then you exist in a vacuum ...

Is Rupert Murdoch (aka owner of Fox News) part of this GOP leadership? Apparently, he disagrees with Trump as well:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/12/politics/rupert-murdoch-trump-tweets/index.html

[Publicus]

Stop seeing Mexicans as one monolithic block of people. I was born and raised in Texas, and I actually prefer the Mexicans I grew up with more than the East and West Coast candyasses who are my fellow citizens. But those were Mexicans from the north and the border. We shared a similar culture and appreciation for things in life. What is coming across the border today is alien not only to the US but to the traditional borderland. Heck, a huge portion of them don't even speak Spanish, much less English. They speak a variety of Indian dialects. Granted, part of the problem WAS caused by the US and its NAFTA partners, which threw small farmers in Mexico into bankruptcy and replaced them with huge agribusinesses' conglomerates. It RUINED these people and their culture. It has done the same in the US. But the answer for Mexico is not to allow the 10 percent White Spaniard/European elite who have ruled over the country since its inception to dump their problems into the US. It's time for the "problems" to seize control of their own destiny and make a better Mexico. It saddens me to think of the Mexico of my youth, a country I loved and actually hoped to retire to one day. It has been turned into a sewer. And it will continue to be one until Mexicans throw out the monsters that exploit and rule over them. We should do the same in the US.

It also is the same old line of the right wingers that the Mexicans of yesteryear were the fine ol' fellas and their clean living happy families cooking cleaning and singing in the good ol' USA of yesteryear. Some posts read like the script from the Lone Ranger written for the Kimosabe Himself.

Mexico has its own immigration problem: American retirees

While figures are hard to come by, some argue that U.S. citizens may make up the vast majority of illegal immigrants in Mexico.

It's estimated that 1 million or so American citizens live in Mexico, many of them retirees who head south of the border to enjoy the warm weather, great food and lower cost of living. These retirees are generally welcomed (they bring with them economic benefits), and Mexico has a visa for such people — the "Residente Temporal" which targets people who do not work in Mexico and are economically self-sufficient.

"The biggest population of foreigners here is Americans, and an important percentage of them live here without documents," Patricia de los Rios, director of the migrant-affairs program at Iberoamerican University in Mexico City, told AZ Central in 2010. "There, we see racism in reverse, because if you have an American accent and are light-skinned . . . the [police] are not going to treat you the same as if you look Honduran."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/11/21/mexico-has-its-own-immigration-problem-american-retirees/

Edited July 13, 2015 by Scott
Inflammatory remark removed

[Usernames]

For those who have a problem figuring out the reason for American citizens living in Mexico, much of it may have to do with Mexicans who gained citizenship--and returned to Mexico, where their retirement money lasts longer. Whatever the number, it is NOT that figures are, as the tendentious column in the Washington Post makes out, "hard to come by," it is that the figures are entirely unknown, as the below BBC article makes clear. And even if there are "thousands" of American illegals in Mexico, how does that compare to the millions or tens of millions in the US. Too, the American expats are usually elderly and relatively well off and unlikely to birth children at hospitals at Mexican taxpayers' expense or have children educated at schools at taxpayers' expense or be admitted to hospitals themselves at taxpayers' expense. Besides, Mexican hospitals don't give away freebies. You either pay or go to jail until you can pay. From the BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-radio-and-tv-17098719

"But the National Migration Institute in Mexico has no idea just how many Americans are living or working illegally in Mexico."

"No one really knows how many of them there are in Mexico. They are usually people who live for a while in Mexico and then return home. They do not stay indefinitely," says Monica Mora, an expert on American migration in Mexico.

[metisdead]

An off topic obfuscation post has been removed as well as the inflammatory replies.