Thai editorial: Outrageous timing for a submarine purchase

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EDITORIAL
Outrageous timing for a submarine purchase
The Nation

Funds are drying up for healthcare, but the Navy still wants bigger muscles to flex

BANGKOK: -- With defence expenditures directly linked to the country's development, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha is obliged to consider both the current economic malaise and his government's relatively limited funds in making a decision on buying expensive new equipment for the military.

If the former Army commander requires guidance on the impact of military spending on a nation's fiscal health and ultimately the wellbeing of its people, he need only refer to crisis-hammered Greece.

The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation has projected that Greece will this year spend 2.4 per cent of its GDP on defence, a 0.1-per-cent increase from 2014, when the Mediterranean country's debt represented 175 per cent of GDP and its economy shrunk by 3.3 per cent.

With a population of just 11 million, Greece is the largest importer of weapons and other military equipment from elsewhere in Europe, particularly from Germany, home to a mighty defence manufacturing industry.

The imports put small, struggling Greece in the same league as powerhouses like China and India in terms of buying weapons from abroad.

Greece's military spending is the highest in the European Union, and in fact many analysts cite its devotion to this ersatz show of strength as a key factor behind its appalling indebtedness.

Between its most recent military coups, in 2006 and 2014, Thailand's defence budget far more than doubled, from Bt81 billion in pre-coup 2005 to Bt180 billion. The military-led government is now mulling a 2016 defence budget of Bt207 billion, marking a 7-per-cent hike over this year and representing nearly 8 per cent of total state expenditures, as well as 1.5 per cent of GDP.

As usual, the military is maintaining that more money is needed to protect national interests, but protect them from what? As usual, none of its leaders has identified a specific threat or threats that Thailand faces or might face in this combat-free region.

Clearly the Navy was paying no heed to the country's current economic weakness and the global situation as a whole when, last Thursday, it formally sought permission to purchase three submarines from China, total price tag Bt36 billion. This came immediately in the wake of Prime Minister Prayut's announcement that our universal healthcare scheme must be revamped.

Healthcare for needier citizens is in jeopardy because the government has insufficient funds.

Objections poured in to the Navy's plan, even from several pro-military politicians and academics, who insist there is no pressing need for Thailand to have such formidable and expensive craft. It's not as though our Southeast Asian neighbours with submarines - Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia - are posing challenges or gaining any military advantage at sea.

Peacetime military spending must always be subjected to the keenest critical scrutiny, and in times of dire economic conditions there is no leeway at all to build up military strength. Our coffers and our resources are clearly inadequate to the proposed purchase at this time, with its minimal, perhaps non-existent, return value to the taxpayer.

Security experts are agreed that the chance of conventional warfare in this region is highly remote in the foreseeable future.

The countries with the greatest maritime strength are all dedicated members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, through which peace and mutual economic development trump any former animosities.

The genuine threats facing Thailand and its neighbours take the form of natural disasters, marine piracy and smuggling - all of which require quick-response action best provided by aircraft and surface ships. It's impossible to imagine any role in such crises for a submarine that's costly to operate and has only enough room aboard for the crew.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Outrageous-timing-for-a-submarine-purchase-30263864.html


-- The Nation 2015-07-07

[jaidam]

Well they should certainly wait until they dug the sub channel across the Isthmus. Imagine if the subs were parked up in Sattahip and there was some pirate activity/other emergency in the Andaman - they would take about 10 days to arrive. And then when they did arrive, what the heck can a sub do about anything. Blimps are probably more useful.

[HeijoshinCool]

.

Funds are drying up for healthcare, but the Navy still wants bigger muscles to flex

No they don't.

The admirals just want the kickbacks after they get the subs ordered.

[PatOngo]

Well they should certainly wait until they dug the sub channel across the Isthmus. Imagine if the subs were parked up in Sattahip and there was some pirate activity/other emergency in the Andaman - they would take about 10 days to arrive. And then when they did arrive, what the heck can a sub do about anything. Blimps are probably more useful.

Food for the poor would more appropriate!..........................or an education system.................or...............or..............law enforcement.............!

[BSJ]

Ok, it's a really crazy idea to buy submarines whether the economy is good or bad....but what's even more crazy is having a submarine department in the navy for the last 50 years while there are no submarines! How off the wall crazy is that!

[EnzoRippo]

Need submarines in case Laos become aggressive.

Most seriously, no one in Thailand thinks the submarines will be in used =>it will be like the aircraft carrier. Just something you visit on the children day.

[NongKhaiKid]

The navy wants new toys for face, there seems little else as a justification, and won't care about the timing. They can try selling it to the NCPO as giving the country additional status even if it's only in their own minds in addition to the spurious argument about ' defence needs '. The knock on effect is that the army and air force are likely to jump in with their shopping lists if the purchase goes through.

Forget the weak argument and timing as it's the junta's ball so it's their game, they pick the teams and set the rules.

[BuckBee]

It is the most useless waste of money imaginable, if they let let this go through they got no serious intent in helping thais & thailand.

Simple fact it even got this far shows level of stupidity & incompetence and the timing with the healthcare review was not spotted by these super clever military generals :-/ what a bunch of self serving blood clots !

[billphillips]

Thailand may be spending a lot of baht on military hardware but it's unlikely that the spending represents good value for money in real terms. I expect that a negotiator would rather than discuss price reduction, discuss the "what's in it for me" angle.

It will be interesting to see how the locals manage to drive a sub, and where to. Judging by the way they drive (blacked out windowed pick-ups) on the roads, driving a boat underwater with no windows should come as second nature to most.

[PepperMe]

Something they will never ever use in a combat situation..... EVER.

At best it will be used to shuttle out fleeing corrupt politicians to their new international havens.

[jcisco]

Thailand if it wants to spend money in its military I'd imagine training, equipping and bringing up to strength its core ground forces would be a priority. Spending on anti-air, and long range anti ship weapon systems in addition can make some way towards spending that is value for money and practical and likely to be operational for longer than a tech cycle.

They don't need an expeditionary force, they need a force to defend the people, their power and water supplies. Defend the homeland, get respect by having the best trained and barrack loving army in the world..

[DP25]

Between its most recent military coups, in 2006 and 2014, Thailand's defence budget far more than doubled, from Bt81 billion in pre-coup 2005 to Bt180 billion. The military-led government is now mulling a 2016 defence budget of Bt207 billion, marking a 7-per-cent hike over this year and representing nearly 8 per cent of total state expenditures, as well as 1.5 per cent of GDP.

Thailand's total budget doubled during this period too. Military budget has remained around 8% of the budget during this entire period. It remains there with submarines or not, people don't understand how much they cost in relation to the total budget. It is $1 billion split over many years out of the normal military budget, just like with similar recent acquisitions the Thai Navy has made. The total Thai budget these days is around US$80 billion per year right now, of which health and education is around $30 billion per year.

Lets not forget that $30 billion that was thrown away with the rice scheme as well, that would have paid for 90 submarines, a high speed rail from Laos to Malaysia, or the health and education budget for an entire year.

[baboon]

Between its most recent military coups, in 2006 and 2014, Thailand's defence budget far more than doubled, from Bt81 billion in pre-coup 2005 to Bt180 billion. The military-led government is now mulling a 2016 defence budget of Bt207 billion, marking a 7-per-cent hike over this year and representing nearly 8 per cent of total state expenditures, as well as 1.5 per cent of GDP.

Thailand's total budget doubled during this period too. Military budget has remained around 8% of the budget during this entire period. It remains there with submarines or not, people don't understand how much they cost in relation to the total budget. It is $1 billion split over many years out of the normal military budget, just like with similar recent acquisitions the Thai Navy has made. The total Thai budget these days is around US$80 billion per year right now, of which health and education is around $30 billion per year.

Lets not forget that $30 billion that was thrown away with the rice scheme as well, that would have paid for 90 submarines, a high speed rail from Laos to Malaysia, or the health and education budget for an entire year.

No, let's talk about the purchase of unneeded submarines and the possible scrapping of affordable healthcare in the here and now. This is sod all to do with the rice scheme. Edited July 7, 2015 by baboon

[Prbkk]

Pathetic posturing at the worst possible time. Either they don't understand that everyone else will see this for what it is: a toothless, de-clawed cat's paw of China. Or they don't care. Woeful judgement by the junta.

[BigBadGeordie]

I would like to think that this is a brilliant political ploy by the General.

Raise the issue, only to knock it down, as he thinks it is not a priority and will not improve the lot of Thais in general, then redirect the cash to healthcare.

A brilliant political move.

But I repeat, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK!

[toybits]

They haven't even justified the purchase of the Aircraft Carrier which is mothballed most of the time. Now they want 3 submarines? Why??? Easier to hide? What is the overwhelming need that justifies the purchase of submarines? With AEC about to kick-in in December 2015, wouldn't that foster more camaraderie among member states? If so, then why the need to purchase submarines to defend against what imagined enemy? Shame apparently is not in their book.

Edited July 7, 2015 by toybits

[DP25]

Between its most recent military coups, in 2006 and 2014, Thailand's defence budget far more than doubled, from Bt81 billion in pre-coup 2005 to Bt180 billion. The military-led government is now mulling a 2016 defence budget of Bt207 billion, marking a 7-per-cent hike over this year and representing nearly 8 per cent of total state expenditures, as well as 1.5 per cent of GDP.

Thailand's total budget doubled during this period too. Military budget has remained around 8% of the budget during this entire period. It remains there with submarines or not, people don't understand how much they cost in relation to the total budget. It is $1 billion split over many years out of the normal military budget, just like with similar recent acquisitions the Thai Navy has made. The total Thai budget these days is around US$80 billion per year right now, of which health and education is around $30 billion per year.

Lets not forget that $30 billion that was thrown away with the rice scheme as well, that would have paid for 90 submarines, a high speed rail from Laos to Malaysia, or the health and education budget for an entire year.

No, let's talk about the purchase of unneeded submarines and the possible scrapping of affordable healthcare in the here and now. This is sod all to do with the rice scheme.

No one was ever planning on doing anything to health care, the whole issue was created to attack the government. Yes it does have a lot to do with the rice scheme, it wasted $30 billion US that could have gone to health care. It has created long term debt and economic disaster for Thailand.

The submarines may or may not be a good idea but it is a drop in the bucket and no one was considering getting rid of health care to pay for them. Getting rid of health care for just a single year would buy 30 submarines, not the 3 they are planning on.

[lostoday]

Between its most recent military coups, in 2006 and 2014, Thailand's defence budget far more than doubled, from Bt81 billion in pre-coup 2005 to Bt180 billion. The military-led government is now mulling a 2016 defence budget of Bt207 billion, marking a 7-per-cent hike over this year and representing nearly 8 per cent of total state expenditures, as well as 1.5 per cent of GDP.

Thailand's total budget doubled during this period too. Military budget has remained around 8% of the budget during this entire period. It remains there with submarines or not, people don't understand how much they cost in relation to the total budget. It is $1 billion split over many years out of the normal military budget, just like with similar recent acquisitions the Thai Navy has made. The total Thai budget these days is around US$80 billion per year right now, of which health and education is around $30 billion per year.

Lets not forget that $30 billion that was thrown away with the rice scheme as well, that would have paid for 90 submarines, a high speed rail from Laos to Malaysia, or the health and education budget for an entire year.

No, let's talk about the purchase of unneeded submarines and the possible scrapping of affordable healthcare in the here and now. This is sod all to do with the rice scheme.

No one was ever planning on doing anything to health care, the whole issue was created to attack the government. Yes it does have a lot to do with the rice scheme, it wasted $30 billion US that could have gone to health care. It has created long term debt and economic disaster for Thailand.

The submarines may or may not be a good idea but it is a drop in the bucket and no one was considering getting rid of health care to pay for them. Getting rid of health care for just a single year would buy 30 submarines, not the 3 they are planning on.

The rice subsidy program was criticized for costing the government 500 billion Thai baht ($15.3 billion)

http://www.ibtimes.com/thailand-yingluck-shinawatra-rice-scandal-former-leader-defends-herself-impeachment-1791292

[Lovekorat]

What are the Navy proposing to do invade Kho Tao?

They'd probably lose

[sawadee1947]

Well they should certainly wait until they dug the sub channel across the Isthmus. Imagine if the subs were parked up in Sattahip and there was some pirate activity/other emergency in the Andaman - they would take about 10 days to arrive. And then when they did arrive, what the heck can a sub do about anything. Blimps are probably more useful.

subs are sooo important. If there are too many Chinese come into this beautiful country the soldier can defend them from robbery, cheating and other mistakes. A sub is a perfect medium for that. Well, done soldier! You are the hub of asia!

[MobileContent]

They should buy more armored vehicles to send to the South as many times soldiers getting killed on their pickup trucks on a regular basis.

[smutcakes]

Thailand's total budget doubled during this period too. Military budget has remained around 8% of the budget during this entire period. It remains there with submarines or not, people don't understand how much they cost in relation to the total budget. It is $1 billion split over many years out of the normal military budget, just like with similar recent acquisitions the Thai Navy has made. The total Thai budget these days is around US$80 billion per year right now, of which health and education is around $30 billion per year.

Lets not forget that $30 billion that was thrown away with the rice scheme as well, that would have paid for 90 submarines, a high speed rail from Laos to Malaysia, or the health and education budget for an entire year.

No, let's talk about the purchase of unneeded submarines and the possible scrapping of affordable healthcare in the here and now. This is sod all to do with the rice scheme.

No one was ever planning on doing anything to health care, the whole issue was created to attack the government. Yes it does have a lot to do with the rice scheme, it wasted $30 billion US that could have gone to health care. It has created long term debt and economic disaster for Thailand.

The submarines may or may not be a good idea but it is a drop in the bucket and no one was considering getting rid of health care to pay for them. Getting rid of health care for just a single year would buy 30 submarines, not the 3 they are planning on.

The old Junta and its supporters have created a bit of a rod for their own back. They all crowed that the debt was unmanageable and it would destroy Thailand, now miraculously they have money slushing around for submarines whilst on the other hand complaining about the burden of the UC.

They have created so many fabrications and distortions on the situation in Thailand over the years, that they are quite simply tying themselves in nots. Not just on economic issues, but also due to requiring support from so many parties which needs the debt honoring they have people queuing up for payment down the blocks. I notice when the poo is starting to fly that poor old Prayut's father figures have suddenly disappeared from public view letting him cop all the flak, the brave men.

[natway09]

There seems to be a terrible hurry to buy new subs, trains, buses etc & to borrow from China & Japan as much as he can get out of them

Why? Sooner or later it has to be paid back what? Oh sorry , you will be gone then

The boss as a caretaker government should be looking at

1) Maintaining the ships, trains & buses & roads we have already have PROPERLY

2) look at the health care scheme & upgrade where needed.

[Eric Loh]

Outrageous, certainly but more of arrogance because they they have the power and the country in the palm of their hands. Definitely opportunistic to enrich themselves and there are no better time than now.

[DLock]

This place feels more and more like North Korea every day.

[chuang]

.

Funds are drying up for healthcare, but the Navy still wants bigger muscles to flex

No they don't.

The admirals just want the kickbacks after they get the subs ordered.

Now the military is in charge..now is the time to get a big slice....

[lemonjelly]

Meanwhile, families of troops stationed in the 3 southern provinces are watching thier loved ones being slaughtered whilst on patrol riding Honda Waves........ I've now lost faith in the General.

[Ulic]

The only difference between men and boys is the price of there toys.

The military around the world have lots of boys loving there toys.

Bling, bling, for ladies vs. vroom, vroom, for men vs. bang, bang for the military.

[fred Kubasa]

The military also said an airship was essential to Thai security and it has lain, DE - flated for years.

There was not/is not/will not be, a GOOD time for Thailand to ever have subs !

[minikev]

They won't even take the clear plastic wrapping off them so they look new even in 20yrs. A bit like grannies sofa.

It looks like the China handshake was firm! Look forward to lots more coach tours.