Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[fayou]

Interesting Photo on another popular Facebook site that want's the truth .

The police who handled this case claimed that a person on CCTV is a Burmese suspect. However, I don't see any similarity between Mr. Win and the guy on CCTV, especially the nose. What do you think?

nomsod5.jpg

My favorite comparisons

1. right arm

2. shoulder

3. bow legs

[Rykbanlor]

Todays local report (Norfolk) -

The prosecution says it was this CCTV footage that led them to the alleged murderers.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/court_in_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_watches_video_of_couple_s_last_evening_1_4164406

but here it states (3rd Oct) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2779106/Thai-police-confirm-DNA-samples-taken-Koh-Tao-murder-victims-match-two-Burmese-workers-confessed-killing-British-pair.html

Identified only by the names ‘Win’ and ‘Saw’, the men were held after it was revealed that their DNA matched samples collected from the victims’ bodies.

So was it the CCTV or the DNA that led to the 'alleged murderers'?

Glad to see today's story is using the terms 'Alleged murderers' and 'Suspected murderers'. A step in the right direction.

The loss of any opportunity to retest crucial DNA evidence in the killings of the two backpackers rocked the defence team’s case earlier this month.

It should be the prosecution's case that was rocked by that. So this means the Judges are allowing the reports on the word of the Police?

Prosecution has 12 days to lay it's case, defence has 6. I am no judicial expert, is this normal? I would have thought equal time should be alloted to both.

[catsanddogs]

Sorry to keep banging on about this but - this still of David, the bloke in the headband and the girl - can anyone confirm if this is one of Hannah's friends? The time on datestamp is 1.56am. The policeman in court yesterday said David entered the AC bar 'around' 2am. Apart from my query over why he could not be specific about the exact time, why wasn't this footage mentioned in his report? This still is just over 3 minutes before David apparently entered AC bar and it alludes to him being alone upon entering, yet looking at the footage it would appear he could have been on his way to his destination with these people.

Edited July 23, 2015 by catsanddogs

[Thaidream]

Wee need to know what happened inside the AC bar involving David and/or Hannah or any other venue they may have visited. Was there an altercation or words with anyone in that bar on that night and if so who were they? If there was an altercation , then we need to know what may have occurred as a result of that and where does it lead. Every crime has to have some motive. Part of the investigation determines who may have had a motive. I wonder if the defense team has their own investigator doing a complete time line on this case and all of the potential witnesses. Everyone wants the truth and justice for the deceased and their families as well as the accused. Someone had to see something that will shed real light on this case and someone will talk-eventually.

[stephenterry]

Well we'll see although I remember reading a few posts back that you felt it was time for them to get tough.

At any rate I'll play the disgusting RTP defender as suggested in the post above:

That long post described Thai-on-Thai mostly road rage. This isn't road rage and it isn't a Thai-on-Thai 'friendly murder'.

While the defence should, IMO, play hard-ball, I understand that (here) the principle of cross-examination only takes place after the prosecution has stated their version of trumped-up evidence.

As you said, we'll see.

[webfact]

Koh Tao murder trial – court goes into recess at 10.15pm on day four

KOH SAMUI: -- On day four of the Koh Tao murder trial Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha from Police Division 8 took to the stand to testify with regards to the CCTV footage of both the victims and the accused.

The last CCTV footage of the victims was seen at 1am when Hannah Witheridge entered the AC Bar at 1am and David Miller an hour later at 2am. The accused, Zaw Lin and Whei Phyo were also seen on CCTV heading down towards the beach where the bodies of the victims were discovered a few hours later. The CCTV footage of a man running to and from the area was also closely examined.

The prosecution’s case went on until 10-15 on the night of Wednesday 22nd of July. With no time for the defense lawyers to cross examine this morning (July 23rd) Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha took to the stand again for cross examination for the defense.

This afternoon police forensic DNA experts from Bangkok took the stand to testify on the case DNA examination process.

Yesterday emotional scenes were witnessed as the mothers of the accused wailed in distress and hung onto their sons who were shackled and wearing prison attire. Both mothers and sons, who have pleaded not guilty, were visibly distressed. The mothers, both widowed, have travelled to Koh Samui from Myanmar to support their sons during the trial.


-- Samui Times 2015-07-23

[silverado]

MikeENZ, who apparently provided some insights about life on KT and KP for the TIME Magazine "The Sceptic Isle" story casts doubt on the possibility that the son of an influential figure on the sceptic island could have committed or been involved in the rape and murders because he would have had too much too lose.

Personally I have no idea who committed the crimes and don't wish to point the finger of suspicion at anyone in particular. However, I would like to point out that MikeENZ's theory is inconsistent with the observed behaviour of the sons of wealthy and influential figures in Thailand. Without naming names or citing dates, I list from memory some incidents I recall over the years in Thailand.

- The son of an influential politician was alleged to have shot a policeman in the head at point blank range in a disco over an argument about someone stepping on his toe. No conviction.

- The son of a gangster associated with gambling dens in Bangkok shot the nephew of a Thai diplomat in the face non-fatally in a disco in Bangkok after the victim allegedly stepped on his toe. No prosecution.

- The son of an influential politician became irate when a pick-up truck cut in front of him on a Bangkok street. The pick-up truck was pulled over by bodyguards travelling in another car and the driver was beaten. The politician's son walked towards him and fired a shot that missed. Then he pointed the gun right at his head and pulled the trigger but it failed to fire. No prosecution.

- The son of an influential politician was pulled over by a traffic cop on Pattanakarn Road in Bangkok for a minor violation and got irate when the cop refused to let him go without booking him. So he pulled out his gun and shot the cop in the face non-fatally. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of an influential politician abducted a police sergeant over an unknown dispute and incarcerated him for 2 or 3 days. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of a billionaire who sells cafeinated sugar water to gullible fools all over the world ran over a police sergeant and dragged him on the car's bonnet for 220 metres before tipping him on the road, ensuring death, if it had not already occurred. Then he attempted to get a family servant to claim responsibility for the crime in his place. He was charged but there has been no attempt to bring him to court and almost certainly the case will be allowed expire under Thailand's ridiculous statute of limitations.

- The son of an influential Isaan politician became irate when he was travelling in was overtaken by a pick-up truck on an isolated country road. He speeded up and overtook the pick-up so that he and at least one of his buddies could fire into the pick-up repeatedly with their illegally carried handguns but missed him completely. The pick-up truck owner, a building contractor, was ready for them and returned fire with his own illegal handgun, killing the politician's son instantly. LOL. The pick-up truck owner was prosecuted.

I could go on but I think this pattern illustrates something in the Thai psyche that MikeENZ obviously failed to learn during his brief stint in Thailand as an illegal worker in tourist resorts. Sons of wealthy and influential people are brought up with a sense of entitlement and impunity which makes them believe they can and have and do whatever they want and never have to face any consequences because Daddy will fix any problems that result. The above list indicates that they are often right. This makes their reflexes different from most less privileged people in Thailand or people living in rule of law jurisdictions, who are more likely to stop short at a point where they should be able to see a possibility of spending many years in prison. Since they don't feel they will have to face the consequences of their actions, they don't see any need to control their flashpoints and, in a country where face is so important, this can lead to some ugly situations. Some of these spoiled brats think nothing of killing some one who accidentally steps on their toe. You can imagine how they would feel if they have been slighted sexually and lost face in front of their buddies and servants.

Another point has been raised by other posters, i.e. why would police go to so much trouble and why would the case be escalated to such a high level to protect a fire dancing drifter, even if he was Thai. In the case of the Katherine Horton murder in Samui, the authorities were happy to arrest and convict two Thai fishermen. No doubt Burmese fishermen would have been preferable but Thai fishermen are only a couple of rungs up the ladder and are also of no consequence, as are Thai fire dancers..

agree completly ! i suspect somebody (one of those disgusting RTP defenders here ? ) impersonate for MikeENZ..... identity spoofing then... crime on TV ????

No, I can confirm that is the real MikENZ. It was just his opinion, which we can agree or disagree with. As I said before I don't believe the fire dancer scenario, but he is making his point from an honest conviction and from what I know of him he is an intelligent guy and is equally passionate about miscarriages of justice and social issues in his home and adoptive countries.

then no possibility for thinking a hacker use his profile member ?... okay i leave it this fool idea (self mockery)

[stephenterry]

Yesterday emotional scenes were witnessed as the mothers of the accused wailed in distress and hung onto their sons who were shackled and wearing prison attire. Both mothers and sons, who have pleaded not guilty, were visibly distressed. The mothers, both widowed, have travelled to Koh Samui from Myanmar to support their sons during the trial.

This trial is about human lives, isn't it? Whatever the outcome, both sets of families will have endured the most harrowing times that could ever have happened to them.

So sorry.

[silverado]

Interesting Photo on another popular Facebook site that want's the truth .

The police who handled this case claimed that a person on CCTV is a Burmese suspect. However, I don't see any similarity between Mr. Win and the guy on CCTV, especially the nose. What do you think?

nomsod5.jpg

My favorite comparisons

1. right arm

2. shoulder

3. bow legs

1.jpg2.JPG3.jpg

running man cannot be one of the b2 so who ?

Edited July 23, 2015 by silverado

[StealthEnergiser]

[HUH]

Yesterday emotional scenes were witnessed as the mothers of the accused wailed in distress and hung onto their sons who were shackled and wearing prison attire. Both mothers and sons, who have pleaded not guilty, were visibly distressed. The mothers, both widowed, have travelled to Koh Samui from Myanmar to support their sons during the trial.

This trial is about human lives, isn't it? Whatever the outcome, both sets of families will have endured the most harrowing times that could ever have happened to them.

So sorry.

Yes tragic. Until this section of the trial is finished we really should concentrate on the proceedings and discuss those and for now leave out the speculation on Nomsod as its clogging up the thread and its been discussed thousands of times before.

[Chetzee]

Because two short people smashing an unarmed person in the head from behind with is just so hard to comprehend. Lets not forget if he was drunk and the goal is to make that point the video and the fact he was at bars until the early morning will just go along with the toxicology reports and if such reports don't show him being drunk then not going to look good for them. My money and logic is he was at least legally drunk. Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

Because two short people smashing an unarmed person in the head from behind

I have looked at all the photos available of David. The pattern of his many woulds does not include any evidence that he was smashed on the head from behind.

Thought he had wound(s) to the back of the head. Also photos from the reenactment show him being struck again while laying in his back. Would think an unsuspecting victim at night being attacked by surprise by two armed people (despite their being short) is very plausible but again I have just assumed but not considered it to be fact they likely hit him from behind first. Bottom line is I do believe the judges will rule correctly in this case and also believe their legal team will do the right thing and plead if the evidence is going to lead to a guilty verdict. I highly doubt there is going to be much room for doubt either way. Everything right now is building the foundation of the case and they are going to tie a lot of circumstantial stuff together but what it is going to come down to is if the defense is able to present a credible doubt to the DNA evidence. This is what their (both sides) whole case will come down to. The defense knows this and why they are doing their best now bring that up now both in court and in public. If the sperm DNA matches and the defense can't come up with a credible reason to dispute this then all the other evidence is going to swing against them. If it doesn't match or they come up with a decent explanation why it is incorrect then all the other evidence will be cast in doubt too. Even if the confessions are considered they would swing one way or another based on the DNA. One scenario they were false and gotten under duress and the other yea the police were rough on them but they got the truth out of them. This of course assumes there is no very damaging surprise evidence we are unaware.

Again, all comes down to the DNA and why the defense team is so eager to see if there is anything there is going to be any way to poke holes in it and of course verify there is a match.

so john , let's get this straight .

you think david was wacked on the back of the head by something heavy .. and having polaxed the guy , the two little men then set about his face with a sharp stabing object . Is that it , is that what you think ?

[Mooner]

Koh Tao murder trial – court goes into recess at 10.15pm on day four

KOH SAMUI: -- On day four of the Koh Tao murder trial Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha from Police Division 8 took to the stand to testify with regards to the CCTV footage of both the victims and the accused.

The last CCTV footage of the victims was seen at 1am when Hannah Witheridge entered the AC Bar at 1am and David Miller an hour later at 2am. The accused, Zaw Lin and Whei Phyo were also seen on CCTV heading down towards the beach where the bodies of the victims were discovered a few hours later. The CCTV footage of a man running to and from the area was also closely examined.

The prosecution’s case went on until 10-15 on the night of Wednesday 22nd of July. With no time for the defense lawyers to cross examine this morning (July 23rd) Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha took to the stand again for cross examination for the defense.

This afternoon police forensic DNA experts from Bangkok took the stand to testify on the case DNA examination process.

Yesterday emotional scenes were witnessed as the mothers of the accused wailed in distress and hung onto their sons who were shackled and wearing prison attire. Both mothers and sons, who have pleaded not guilty, were visibly distressed. The mothers, both widowed, have travelled to Koh Samui from Myanmar to support their sons during the trial.

-- Samui Times 2015-07-23

So CCTV of them entering the bar but none in it. What a complete farce!!

[catsanddogs]

Yesterday emotional scenes were witnessed as the mothers of the accused wailed in distress and hung onto their sons who were shackled and wearing prison attire. Both mothers and sons, who have pleaded not guilty, were visibly distressed. The mothers, both widowed, have travelled to Koh Samui from Myanmar to support their sons during the trial.

This trial is about human lives, isn't it? Whatever the outcome, both sets of families will have endured the most harrowing times that could ever have happened to them.

So sorry.

Yes tragic. Until this section of the trial is finished we really should concentrate on the proceedings and discuss those and for now leave out the speculation on Nomsod as its clogging up the thread and its been discussed thousands of times before.

HUH - I respect what you are saying but the fact that it was deemed necessary by the prosecution to state that Nomsod's phone records prove he was not on Koh Tao has resulted in a refueling of speculation. He is now undoubtedly implicated in the proceedings as I see it which will no doubt be used in some way by the defence.

[AleG]

My favorite comparisons

1. right arm

2. shoulder

3. bow legs

Congratulations, you have proven that the person on the CCTV footage and Warot both have a right shoulder and a left hand.

This is starting to look like a case of mass hysteria.

[DM07]

My favorite comparisons

1. right arm

2. shoulder

3. bow legs

Congratulations, you have proven that the person on the CCTV footage and Warot both have a right shoulder and a left hand.

This is starting to look like a case of mass hysteria.

Whereas you have done nothing except sarcy remarks and taking everything the mighty RTP claim on face value!

I am not telling you, what I think that is starting to look like, because I like my posting- rights!

[JLCrab]

Yesterday emotional scenes were witnessed as the mothers of the accused wailed in distress and hung onto their sons who were shackled and wearing prison attire. Both mothers and sons, who have pleaded not guilty, were visibly distressed. The mothers, both widowed, have travelled to Koh Samui from Myanmar to support their sons during the trial.

This trial is about human lives, isn't it? Whatever the outcome, both sets of families will have endured the most harrowing times that could ever have happened to them.

So sorry.

Yes tragic. Until this section of the trial is finished we really should concentrate on the proceedings and discuss those and for now leave out the speculation on Nomsod as its clogging up the thread and its been discussed thousands of times before.

HUH - I respect what you are saying but the fact that it was deemed necessary by the prosecution to state that Nomsod's phone records prove he was not on Koh Tao has resulted in a refueling of speculation. He is now undoubtedly implicated in the proceedings as I see it which will no doubt be used in some way by the defence.

That could also be a ploy by the prosecution in introducing such person hoping that the defense might use some of their limited time on (from their perspective) a wild goose chase.

[KunMatt]

Instead of all the gossip in this thread the focus should stay on whats going on in the court

"Today’s court hearing, which lasted for nearly 12 hours, saw only one witness: an investigative police officer chosen by the prosecution to present dozens of video clips culled from the footage of 300 CCTV cameras installed in the vicinity of the crime. The officer, Pol.Col. Cherdpong Chiewpreecha, said that only 100 of those cameras were operational, and 22 of them showed the movements of Witheridge and Miller on their final night."

So 12 hours seems long to me , they probably spent a long time going through the footage from all the CCTV cameras , and for the first time we've been told that 100 of around 300 cameras were working that night.

Only 1 witness yesterday , I expect more witnesses today. This is a lot more interesting than listening to conspiracy theorists on TV,

The only people pushing the conspiracy is you and the other handful of trolls.

The people you are against are either open mindedly opposing a corrupt and incompetent police force with a vested interest to convict 2 scapegoats, or they believe the original police statement that the 2 guilty parties of islane locals were caught on CCTV and were definitely involved in the crime before the conspiracy started.

For everything you have said and done during this case you should be hanging your head in shame Balo.

[JLCrab]

My favorite comparisons

1. right arm

2. shoulder

3. bow legs

Congratulations, you have proven that the person on the CCTV footage and Warot both have a right shoulder and a left hand.

This is starting to look like a case of mass hysteria.

Whereas you have done nothing except sarcy remarks and taking everything the mighty RTP claim on face value!

I am not telling you, what I think that is starting to look like, because I like my posting- rights!

I guess you won't be inviting him to your Christmas Party.

[joebrown]

Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

RTP purposefully DID NOT release toxicology reports right after the crime, when they should have. Their soggy reason: it might upset the victims' families, which to me, is BS. The victims' families were already devastated upon hearing of the demise of their lovely offspring, why would hearing toxicology reports upset them further?

Why should they have released the toxicology reports publicly prior to an arrest let alone a trial? Absolutely ZERO public good it would serve and being considerate of the families, who have since made clear they are already troubled by all the idiotic theories online, is a valid reasons.

These murders are not about you or anyone else on this forum and certainly the police and people involved in the actual investigation are not hear to serve the twisted need for some people to play detective online. This case will be decided in the courts and what you, I or anyone else thinks about that is meaningless. The family has expressed confidence in the investigation and the court and they are not only in a much better position to know more about the case and evidence but are the only ones whose interests and motivations to be part of this in this case/crime is above suspicion.

"These murders are not about you or anyone else on this forum blah, blah, blah"

I'm a UK taxpayer. My taxes are collected by the UK Inland Revenue for the UK Treasury. The UK government decides how this revenue is spent. It just so happens that UK police came to Thailand, at UK taxpayers' expense because of the UK Prime Minister's concern about the 'handling' of the KT murder investigation by the Thai Police. It may not be to your liking or that of your miniscule band of Thai Police apologists, but it is a FACT that I and others like me have an 'interest' in this so called trial, Also, might I remind you that as the victims were British, people like me want to see a fair, balanced and transparent trial, which is something we are still waiting for.

[Just1Voice]

The cop says that David appears in a visibly drunken state. Seriously? I've watched every video that's available, and in NONE of them does David appear anything even resembling a "drunken state".

Not only that, but if I'm not mistaken, the autopsy report on him stated that he had virtually NO SIGNS of alcohol consumption.

Kinda makes you wonder about the state of mind of the cop.

[smedly]

Todays local report (Norfolk) -

The prosecution says it was this CCTV footage that led them to the alleged murderers.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/court_in_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_watches_video_of_couple_s_last_evening_1_4164406

but here it states (3rd Oct) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2779106/Thai-police-confirm-DNA-samples-taken-Koh-Tao-murder-victims-match-two-Burmese-workers-confessed-killing-British-pair.html

Identified only by the names ‘Win’ and ‘Saw’, the men were held after it was revealed that their DNA matched samples collected from the victims’ bodies.

So was it the CCTV or the DNA that led to the 'alleged murderers'?

Glad to see today's story is using the terms 'Alleged murderers' and 'Suspected murderers'. A step in the right direction.

still wearing the same tee shirt seen wearing in the shop buying cigs, not a spot of blood anywhere to be seen

One of the suspects is seen being led away in handcuffs by police officers

[Chetzee]

don't you find it just a bit weird that now with the court is in session , and this forum is alive and kicking , that a good % of the chat is about a young man who could not possibly have had anything to do with this case .

after all he wasn't on the island , and his DNA didn't match up anyway ........ but yet the usual suspect choose to keep protesting his innocence .

As someone stated yesterday i suspect they " doth protest too much "

so well done all you guys and the police too for bringing your Fresh Milk right back into the lime light ! Brilliant .

You might have been better to let sleeping dogs lie , rather than keep slinging that mud , coz it looks like some of it has stuck again on your man .

[sambum]

"DNA evidence is not available to the defense to retest."

Then what about the police chief General Somyot declaring on the afternoon of the 10th of this month that they had ALL DNA ? He says they lost nothing (though the hair is lost and the cig butt is 'used up'). Is it yet another lie? A bluff? The truth? A way to further procrastinate and drag out the time line of the trial?

Re; RTP saying they have phone records proving NS was in Bangkok. I think that's a lie, and just as assuredly, there will be zero objective proof (phone records from phone service, for example) to substantiate it. If, however, RTP is saying there was a phone call on his phone (in Bkk) anytime after 8:30 am on Monday, then it proves nothing, because getting from KT to Bkk in a hurry, can be done in 3.5 hours. The crime wrapped up at 5 am.

Sometimes the guy with the balls sits silently till his time arrives! I also wait pensively.

As FDR might say, "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

reason for edit: quotes were messed up.

FDR (Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 32nd US President) might have said it; Teddy Roosevelt (26th US President) DID say it.

Just like most of your posts - SMUG!

[AleG]

Congratulations, you have proven that the person on the CCTV footage and Warot both have a right shoulder and a left hand.

This is starting to look like a case of mass hysteria.

Whereas you have done nothing except sarcy remarks and taking everything the mighty RTP claim on face value!

I am not telling you, what I think that is starting to look like, because I like my posting- rights!

I don't take anything at face value, not from the police and much less from people posting anonymously on the Internet.

However you may have noticed there's a trial going on right now were the claims from the police are being examined and contested in a court of law, that's how facts and guilt or innocence are determined in legal cases; and maybe, just maybe, if people would try to put aside their personal frustrations and prejudices for just a little while, people coming to this thread for news on those proceedings will have a chance of being informed about them.

It's amazing (albeit not unexpected) how the people that have been clamoring for months to see a fair and transparent trial are wearing their fingers off muddling the news from the trial as much as possible.

[JLCrab]

The quote about the 'big stick' was by Teddy Roosevelt not Franklin Roosevelt but I guess once you've seen one US President, you've seen 'em all.

[Rykbanlor]

Congratulations, you have proven that the person on the CCTV footage and Warot both have a right shoulder and a left hand.

This is starting to look like a case of mass hysteria.

Whereas you have done nothing except sarcy remarks and taking everything the mighty RTP claim on face value!

I am not telling you, what I think that is starting to look like, because I like my posting- rights!

I don't take anything at face value, not from the police and much less from people posting anonymously on the Internet.

However you may have noticed there's a trial going on right now were the claims from the police are being examined and contested in a court of law, that's how facts and guilt or innocence are determined in legal cases; and maybe, just maybe, if people would try to put aside their personal frustrations and prejudices for just a little while, people coming to this thread for news on those proceedings will have a chance of being informed about them.

It's amazing (albeit not unexpected) how the people that have been clamoring for months to see a fair and transparent trial are wearing their fingers off muddling the news from the trial as much as possible.

Yes muddling. Yes transparent. Well spotted.

[StealthEnergiser]

[AleG]

still wearing the same tee shirt seen wearing in the shop buying cigs, not a spot of blood anywhere to be seen

One of the suspects is seen being led away in handcuffs by police officers

That's Muang Muang, who has not been accused of taking part on the murders and is wearing the AC Two bar shirt he would wear every day at work. So there's nothing suspicious about the shirt being the same design and not having any blood on it.

[Linky]

don't you find it just a bit weird that now with the court is in session , and this forum is alive and kicking , that a good % of the chat is about a young man who could not possibly have had anything to do with this case .

after all he wasn't on the island , and his DNA didn't match up anyway ........ but yet the usual suspect choose to keep protesting his innocence .

As someone stated yesterday i suspect they " doth protest too much "

so well done all you guys and the police too for bringing your Fresh Milk right back into the lime light ! Brilliant .

You might have been better to let sleeping dogs lie , rather than keep slinging that mud , coz it looks like some of it has stuck again on your man .

How do you know his dna didnt match. Because police say so? Trying to match his dna by testing on things the police said in court no longer exist?

Quite the Houdini act to do that