Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[HUH]

Thought he had wound(s) to the back of the head.

From the diagram I saw, it looks like the top of his head, not the back.

More important, are the many stab wounds, most are to the right side of his neck. RTP claims they're from a blunt cement-encrusted hoe. That's ridiculous. Brit forensics should shed light on all of David's wounds, but waiting for Brit forensics is like waiting for Boy George to be declared next Pope by the Vatican.

Also photos from the reenactment show him being struck again while laying in his back.

How can you ascertain that? Because he was lying on his back when forensics arrived? He was moved away from the surf prior.

I don't remember the wounds he had but thought very early on it was the back of his head but may have been the top ... same difference in terms of being struck from behind especially when you are talking about a hoe with a curved end. (if you suspect the hoe was not the weapon then fine, that subject has already been speculated beyond any point)

I said reenactment photo ... the one were one of the defendant is standing above one of the people pretending to be the victim lying on his back and the defendant holding a representation of the weapon, what I believe was a dust pan on stick in the photo, appearing to simulate a blow to the head.

It actually doesn't concern me as being all that relevant in terms of prosecutors being able to give an exact detail of how things went down (they were not there). Unless they are sure and can prove the exact sequence of events on the beach it would be stupid to present a scenario when another scenario is just as plausible This case is going to come down to DNA and all the other evidence will fall inline from there.

Just to refresh your memory on the wounds

[Thesticle]

I think it's very strange that the prosecution has brought Nom Sods name into the trial. Are the defense now allowed to use him as part of their stratagy or actually challenge and delve into his alibi? Perhaps the prosecution is trying to preempt some evidence that it thinks the defense has? Why would you bring his name into it if he has been cleared and should be irrelevant to the case at hand? I don't know much about Thai law but it would seem to me that if the prosecution brings his name into it the defense has the right to challenge.

The prosecution may want to see us focusing on Nomsod rather than the woman reported as running on CCTV (reported by the police on September 20th).

It's possible, there have been so many red herrings and contradictory statements in this case it's hard to know what's what. The blond hair is another one, I can't believe its been lost or used up. The two main pieces of evidence their confesions and the dna seem to be in doubt and the rest of it is circumstantial and ambiguous.

Personally I think the defenses dna work will shed some light if we are to believe the small snippets we have heard from them , I hope so at least.

[worgeordie]

Its a great pity there are no investigative reporters or Tv Programs

like Panorama ,here in Thailand, I guest the job is just too dangerous,

for anyone to engage in,

regards Worgeordie

[catsanddogs]

How about this Christopher Ware? If I recall correctly he had a bloody trouser in his luggage, or something? Have a good look at his right hand wrist...

Seems that all the foreigners named in regards to this case, carry wounds... just like Sean with the blood stained guitar...

If I were the judge, the trial would not even have begun without those two appearing in court. If I were the parent to one of the victims, I'd have asked Scotland Yard to put out an arrest warrant so they can be questioned, detained and if necessary put in a witness protection program. I think they are not just key witnesses, but involved somehow...

Ware stated that he got the injury on his arm previous to the murders and there were photos in the media that showed his arm bandaged before the crimes, but I agree that both British men could be involved in some capacity.

[BritTim]

MikeENZ, who apparently provided some insights about life on KT and KP for the TIME Magazine "The Sceptic Isle" story casts doubt on the possibility that the son of an influential figure on the sceptic island could have committed or been involved in the rape and murders because he would have had too much too lose.

Personally I have no idea who committed the crimes and don't wish to point the finger of suspicion at anyone in particular. However, I would like to point out that MikeENZ's theory is inconsistent with the observed behaviour of the sons of wealthy and influential figures in Thailand. Without naming names or citing dates, I list from memory some incidents I recall over the years in Thailand.

- The son of an influential politician was alleged to have shot a policeman in the head at point blank range in a disco over an argument about someone stepping on his toe. No conviction.

- The son of a gangster associated with gambling dens in Bangkok shot the nephew of a Thai diplomat in the face non-fatally in a disco in Bangkok after the victim allegedly stepped on his toe. No prosecution.

- The son of an influential politician became irate when a pick-up truck cut in front of him on a Bangkok street. The pick-up truck was pulled over by bodyguards travelling in another car and the driver was beaten. The politician's son walked towards him and fired a shot that missed. Then he pointed the gun right at his head and pulled the trigger but it failed to fire. No prosecution.

- The son of a influential politician was pulled over by a traffic cop on Pattanakarn Road in Bangkok for a minor violation and got irate when the cop refused to let him go without booking him. So he pulled out his gun and shot the cop in the face non-fatally. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of an influential politician abducted a police sergeant over an unknown dispute and incarcerated him for 2 or 3 days. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of a billionaire who sells cafeinated sugar water to gullible fools all over the world ran over a police sergeant and dragged him for 220 metres before tipping it on the road, ensuring death, if it had not already occurred. Then he attempted to get a family servant to claim responsibility for the crime in his place. He was charged but there has been no attempt to bring him to court and almost certainly the case will be allowed expire under Thailand's ridiculous statute of limitations.

- The son of an influential Isaan politician became irate when he was travelling in was overtaken by a pick-up truck on an isolated country road. He speeded up and overtook the pick-up so that he and at least one of his buddies could fire into the pick-up with their illegally carried handguns. The pick-up truck owner, a building contractor, was ready for them and returned fire with his own illegal handgun, killing the politician's son. LOL. The pick-up truck owner was prosecuted.

I could go on but I think this pattern illustrates something in the Thai psyche that MikeENZ obviously failed to learn during his brief stint in Thailand as an illegal worker in tourist resorts. Sons of wealthy and influential people are brought up with a sense of entitlement and impunity which makes them believe they can and have and do whatever they want and never have to face any consequences because Daddy will fix any problems that result. The above list indicates that they are often right. This makes their reflexes different from most less privileged people in Thailand or people living in rule of law jurisdictions, who are more likely to stop short at a point where they should be able to see a possibility of spending many years in prison. Since they don't feel they will have to face the consequences of their actions, they don't see any need to control their flashpoints and, in a country where face is so important, this can lead to some ugly situations.

Another point has been raised by other posters, i.e. why would police go to so much trouble and why would the case be escalated to such a high level to protect a fire dancing drifter, even if he was Thai. In the case of the Katherine Horton murder in Samui, the authorities were happy to arrest and convict two Thai fishermen. No doubt Burmese fishermen would have been preferable but Thai fishermen are only a couple of rungs up the ladder and are also of no consequence.

why would police go to so much trouble and why would the case be escalated to such a high level to protect a fire dancing drifter, even if he was Thai

I think this is an interesting question. The explanation would go like this:

• Events leading to the murders started with a fight in AC Bar. Indeed, some of David's wounds may well have been received there.
• When Hannah and David left, the killers (casual and formal employees of the bar) followed.

Even if the bar escaped formal prosecution as sharing responsibility, the negative publicity would be devastating.

Note: I am not saying this is the only explanation, only that it is one of the plausible scenarios.

[Rykbanlor]

http://www.business-anti-corruption.com/country-profiles/east-asia-the-pacific/thailand/corruption-levels/judicial-system.aspx

Just one source where you can find a reason not to trust the system.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

RTP purposefully DID NOT release toxicology reports right after the crime, when they should have. Their soggy reason: it might upset the victims' families, which to me, is BS. The victims' families were already devastated upon hearing of the demise of their lovely offspring, why would hearing toxicology reports upset them further?

Why should they have released the toxicology reports publicly prior to an arrest let alone a trial? Absolutely ZERO public good it would serve and being considerate of the families, who have since made clear they are already troubled by all the idiotic theories online, is a valid reasons.

These murders are not about you or anyone else on this forum and certainly the police and people involved in the actual investigation are not hear to serve the twisted need for some people to play detective online. This case will be decided in the courts and what you, I or anyone else thinks about that is meaningless. The family has expressed confidence in the investigation and the court and they are not only in a much better position to know more about the case and evidence but are the only ones whose interests and motivations to be part of this in this case/crime is above suspicion.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thought he had wound(s) to the back of the head.

From the diagram I saw, it looks like the top of his head, not the back.

More important, are the many stab wounds, most are to the right side of his neck. RTP claims they're from a blunt cement-encrusted hoe. That's ridiculous. Brit forensics should shed light on all of David's wounds, but waiting for Brit forensics is like waiting for Boy George to be declared next Pope by the Vatican.

"JohnThailandJohn" post="9651717" timestamp="1437623632"]

Also photos from the reenactment show him being struck again while laying in his back.

How can you ascertain that? Because he was lying on his back when forensics arrived? He was moved away from the surf prior.

I don't remember the wounds he had but thought very early on it was the back of his head but may have been the top ... same difference in terms of being struck from behind especially when you are talking about a hoe with a curved end. (if you suspect the hoe was not the weapon then fine, that subject has already been speculated beyond any point)

I said reenactment photo ... the one were one of the defendant is standing above one of the people pretending to be the victim lying on his back and the defendant holding a representation of the weapon, what I believe was a dust pan on stick in the photo, appearing to simulate a blow to the head.

It actually doesn't concern me as being all that relevant in terms of prosecutors being able to give an exact detail of how things went down (they were not there). Unless they are sure and can prove the exact sequence of events on the beach it would be stupid to present a scenario when another scenario is just as plausible This case is going to come down to DNA and all the other evidence will fall inline from there.

Just to refresh your memory on the wounds

CSXT6f6Q+8gOxf2tMrXQAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==.png6oIC0AEn83kBLHxx5N7geOELMUXSrS+ZW8crSetKBsTZ+xk7x7xqDxHGumaDx5P8Dg5zQ0+mflvgAAAAASUVORK5CYII=.png

So. looks like 3 wounds to the back of the head is this graphic is to be believed.

[catsanddogs]

Mystery woman seen running around the time of crimes

Police are also trying to trace a mystery western woman seen on CCTV running along the main street in the early hours on the night of the murders

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

RTP have had over 10 months to find out who this woman is.

Why hasn't this CCTV been shown in court?

Police said the woman could have been Hannah, a suspect or a witness. The fact that there has been nothing to date regarding this mystery woman is deeply worrying.

Why didn't the RTP indicate what time this woman was seen running? They simply said 'in the early hours'

Possible reasons for pushing this information under the carpet -

It was Hannah and there was someone else in the shot that the RTP do not want implicated in the crimes.

It was one of Hannah's friends who knows what happened that night.

It was a witness to the crimes and the RTP got rid of her in some way.

The defence MUST be able to request this footage surely?

Some woman out there (if she's still alive) knows it was her.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

What do the RTP home to gain by implying he was drunk ?

From a Thai perspective: Drunk = more likely to crave sex.

Drunk = more surly, more apt to do & say stupid things which could offend easily-offended Asians.

Drunk = less adept at self-defense, therefore more easily overpowered.

Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

RTP purposefully DID NOT release toxicology reports right after the crime, when they should have. Their soggy reason: it might upset the victims' families, which to me, is BS. The victims' families were already devastated upon hearing of the demise of their lovely offspring, why would hearing toxicology reports upset them further? My supposition of why RTP did that, is one or more of the following:

>>> RTP may not have had the equipment or proper experts on hand to do toxicology.

>>> RTP may have found some illegal drugs in the victims' blood, and announcing that would open a can or worms: 'Where did they get such drugs. The beach party bars?!'

>>> It's not unusual for a pretty young farang backpacker to get slipped a mickey (clandestinely given a drug concoction with hopes of sex later on). It happens at most beach resorts, on both sides of the isthmus. Many reports come out of Phi Phi - some with fatalities/overdoses.

In a related note: it's doubtful that RTP did any toxicology tests on Mon or any of his tough-guy buddies. By the time RTP caught up with NS, it was too late. If pressed on the issue, RTP could always say 'no drugs were found being used by any of the Headman's family or friends that night' .....since RTP are so accustomed to just saying whatever suits their agenda, and everyone is obliged to believe it.

Do the bars on Koh Tao advertise opium,mushroom and weed drinks and food containing it then you know why CCTV footage ends outside Ac Bar. That camera recorder remote comes in real handy.

[smedly]

Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

RTP purposefully DID NOT release toxicology reports right after the crime, when they should have. Their soggy reason: it might upset the victims' families, which to me, is BS. The victims' families were already devastated upon hearing of the demise of their lovely offspring, why would hearing toxicology reports upset them further?

Why should they have released the toxicology reports publicly prior to an arrest let alone a trial? Absolutely ZERO public good it would serve and being considerate of the families, who have since made clear they are already troubled by all the idiotic theories online, is a valid reasons.

These murders are not about you or anyone else on this forum and certainly the police and people involved in the actual investigation are not hear to serve the twisted need for some people to play detective online. This case will be decided in the courts and what you, I or anyone else thinks about that is meaningless. The family has expressed confidence in the investigation and the court and they are not only in a much better position to know more about the case and evidence but are the only ones whose interests and motivations to be part of this in this case/crime is above suspicion.

you are one of the most prolific posters on this thread, what you believe in and trust is up to you, for me I have seen enough evidence over the years and on this case that leaves me with a very big issue with trusting anything in Thailand especially the police, and I have vast experience of such matters

[smedly]

Its a great pity there are no investigative reporters or Tv Programs

like Panorama ,here in Thailand, I guest the job is just too dangerous,

for anyone to engage in,

regards Worgeordie

yes I said the same thing several days ago on this very thread

[catsanddogs]

Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

RTP purposefully DID NOT release toxicology reports right after the crime, when they should have. Their soggy reason: it might upset the victims' families, which to me, is BS. The victims' families were already devastated upon hearing of the demise of their lovely offspring, why would hearing toxicology reports upset them further?

Why should they have released the toxicology reports publicly prior to an arrest let alone a trial? Absolutely ZERO public good it would serve and being considerate of the families, who have since made clear they are already troubled by all the idiotic theories online, is a valid reasons.

These murders are not about you or anyone else on this forum and certainly the police and people involved in the actual investigation are not hear to serve the twisted need for some people to play detective online. This case will be decided in the courts and what you, I or anyone else thinks about that is meaningless. The family has expressed confidence in the investigation and the court and they are not only in a much better position to know more about the case and evidence but are the only ones whose interests and motivations to be part of this in this case/crime is above suspicion.

The family has expressed confidence in the investigation

For pity's sake stop bashing out the same old mantra will you. That statement was made via the FO almost 8 months ago! Please give the families some credit and try and understand that they are unlikely to be stuck in the same groove as you are and have been since this case began. You are not a spokesperson for the families and it's high time you took your own advice.

[Basil B]

A much earlier claim was made, to get all the ducks lined up, was that Hannah shared some cigarettes with the Burmese. This enabled her DNA to be "discovered" on a cigarette butt. Her family and friends claim she had never in her life smoked cigarettes ! Now the big question is: where are all those interpreters who have fled the court??

"Her family and friends claim she had never in her life smoked cigarettes !"

A point I made just a few days ago. If she didn't smoke, how is it that there are recent claims that her DNA might be on one (or more) of the cig butts discovered near the log where the B2 were sitting?

Planted...

The way this crime was investigated there would be no problem in getting a swab from the victims mouth to "enhance evidence"...

The RTP already said in court during the earlier sessions that they had obtained swabs from the victims' mouths, presumably when the bodies were still on the beach. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Or the same person who took the swabs then picked up and bagged the cigarette butts, still wearing the same gloves...

[smedly]

Mystery woman seen running around the time of crimes

Police are also trying to trace a mystery western woman seen on CCTV running along the main street in the early hours on the night of the murders

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

RTP have had over 10 months to find out who this woman is.

Why hasn't this CCTV been shown in court?

Police said the woman could have been Hannah, a suspect or a witness. The fact that there has been nothing to date regarding this mystery woman is deeply worrying.

Why didn't the RTP indicate what time this woman was seen running? They simply said 'in the early hours'

Possible reasons for pushing this information under the carpet -

It was Hannah and there was someone else in the shot that the RTP do not want implicated in the crimes.

It was one of Hannah's friends who knows what happened that night.

It was a witness to the crimes and the RTP got rid of her in some way.

The defence MUST be able to request this footage surely?

Some woman out there (if she's still alive) knows it was her.

excuse me if I am wrong but in that video we now see 3 Asian men in light green tee shirts which I have never seen in that footage before, I believe we have seen the same clip many times recently

[JohnThailandJohn]

Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

RTP purposefully DID NOT release toxicology reports right after the crime, when they should have. Their soggy reason: it might upset the victims' families, which to me, is BS. The victims' families were already devastated upon hearing of the demise of their lovely offspring, why would hearing toxicology reports upset them further?

Why should they have released the toxicology reports publicly prior to an arrest let alone a trial? Absolutely ZERO public good it would serve and being considerate of the families, who have since made clear they are already troubled by all the idiotic theories online, is a valid reasons.

These murders are not about you or anyone else on this forum and certainly the police and people involved in the actual investigation are not hear to serve the twisted need for some people to play detective online. This case will be decided in the courts and what you, I or anyone else thinks about that is meaningless. The family has expressed confidence in the investigation and the court and they are not only in a much better position to know more about the case and evidence but are the only ones whose interests and motivations to be part of this in this case/crime is above suspicion.

The family has expressed confidence in the investigation

For pity's sake stop bashing out the same old mantra will you. That statement was made via the FO almost 8 months ago! Please give the families some credit and try and understand that they are unlikely to be stuck in the same groove as you are and have been since this case began. You are not a spokesperson for the families and it's high time you took your own advice.

Actually the families released another statement just a week or two ago with at least one stating they want this to play out in the court and how speculation has been hurtful to the family and the victim's friends and that they wanted people to respect their privacy

[catsanddogs]

Two Thai reporters also briefly attended the trial for less than an hour reported Phucket news yesterday.

Wow! Less than one hour when the court hearing lasted twelve!

And now for the good news:

The suspects’ mothers were present in court yesterday for the first time, and will stay on the island until a verdict is reached in early October.

[HUH]

Why should they have released the toxicology reports publicly prior to an arrest let alone a trial? Absolutely ZERO public good it would serve and being considerate of the families, who have since made clear they are already troubled by all the idiotic theories online, is a valid reasons.

These murders are not about you or anyone else on this forum and certainly the police and people involved in the actual investigation are not hear to serve the twisted need for some people to play detective online. This case will be decided in the courts and what you, I or anyone else thinks about that is meaningless. The family has expressed confidence in the investigation and the court and they are not only in a much better position to know more about the case and evidence but are the only ones whose interests and motivations to be part of this in this case/crime is above suspicion.

The family has expressed confidence in the investigation

For pity's sake stop bashing out the same old mantra will you. That statement was made via the FO almost 8 months ago! Please give the families some credit and try and understand that they are unlikely to be stuck in the same groove as you are and have been since this case began. You are not a spokesperson for the families and it's high time you took your own advice.

Actually the families released another statement just a week or two ago with at least one stating they want this to play out in the court and how speculation has been hurtful to the family and the victim's friends and that they wanted people to respect their privacy

Dont you think its about time you stopped speaking for other people, the lawyer a few posts ago and now the the Miller family who did not say that. Its pretty easy to find the actual statement from them made at the beginning of the trial which you are referring to if you want the true one rather than your misinformation.

[PaPiPuPePo]

Have a look fellas. He was dressed for school that morning, never made it to class! Or was late as balls.

What is your agenda here , CSI LA has been spreading spreading gossip all day long. That doesnt prove anything about Nomsod and where he went the times he was not attending class. He had a girlfriend at that time , he was in Bangkok , living his student life.

One could ask the same agenda question of you. You continually present what you believe in as fact and what you don't believe in as fiction.

[ukrules]

If his phone records clear him, why can't the public verify that like any normal country? Why can't defense teams or journalists record or verify any evidence?

I have one phone, it never leaves my computer desk. I guess you could say this phone proves I'm at home 24/7 365 days a year.

The cell tower is very near to my house and I will always be logged onto that tower with this phone.

What you don't know is how many other phones I have.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Actually the families released another statement just a week or two ago with at least one stating they want this to play out in the court and how speculation has been hurtful to the family and the victim's friends and that they wanted people to respect their privacy

Dont you think its about time you stopped speaking for other people, the lawyer a few posts ago and now the the Miller family who did not say that. Its pretty easy to find the actual statement from them made at the beginning of the trial which you are referring to if you want the true one rather than your misinformation.

The Nation, Agencies [/size]July 9, 2015 1:00 am[/size]

The UK embassy in Bangkok released the statement of Miller's family, saying they had travelled to Koh[/size]Samui for the start of the trial into "the horrific murder of our loving son and brother David Miller, and Hannah Witheridge.[/size]

"The act which ended David's life devastated our family and his friends. Just hours before he died, David was talking to us with his usual enthusiasm, describing the beauty of Koh Tao and the friendliness of the Thai people. Over the coming weeks we hope to gain a better understanding as to how such a wonderful young man lost his life in such idyllic surroundings in such a horrible way."

"This pain will remain a part of us for the rest of our lives. We have borne our thoughts in silence, as we have not wanted to influence any court proceedings, but simply want to see justice done fairly and openly. We ask the media to afford David and Hannah dignity in the reporting of this trial and also that we are given privacy and respect while we battle with our emotions during the difficult weeks ahead."

For Witheridge's family, the statement said they also attended the trial, which they described as "the horrific murders of our beautiful Hannah, and David Miller". We stand united in our grief with David's family and together wish to have privacy to follow the trial.

"Hannah was a beautiful person, inside and out, she brought a room alive just being there. She was fun, honest and loved life. Her bright future was brutally ended, leaving those who loved her broken with no answers."

They also asked that the media treat Hannah with dignity in their reporting of the trial. "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

"Please allow the police and the court to do their jobs during the coming weeks and months. We, of course, want to see those responsible for the brutal murder of our precious girl brought to justice."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Accused-in-Koh-Tao-murder-case-want-to-independent-30264065.html

[Mooner]

It has been reported that the prosecution is claiming that the "running man" in the key CCTV footage is one of the Burmese kids (both short even by Burmese standards). This is what they look like:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/07/1412694825626_wps_5_KO_TAO_THAILAND_OCTOBER_0.jpg

This is the best available picture of the running man (probably not shown in court):

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/20/article-2763277-2184B15500000578-954_634x655.jpg

See the resemblance? Me neither.

Are they really trying to pass this guy off as one of the B2?

[Mooner]

The Nation, Agencies July 9, 2015 1:00 am

The UK embassy in Bangkok released the statement of Miller's family, saying they had travelled to KohSamui for the start of the trial into "the horrific murder of our loving son and brother David Miller, and Hannah Witheridge.

"The act which ended David's life devastated our family and his friends. Just hours before he died, David was talking to us with his usual enthusiasm, describing the beauty of Koh Tao and the friendliness of the Thai people. Over the coming weeks we hope to gain a better understanding as to how such a wonderful young man lost his life in such idyllic surroundings in such a horrible way."

"This pain will remain a part of us for the rest of our lives. We have borne our thoughts in silence, as we have not wanted to influence any court proceedings, but simply want to see justice done fairly and openly. We ask the media to afford David and Hannah dignity in the reporting of this trial and also that we are given privacy and respect while we battle with our emotions during the difficult weeks ahead."

For Witheridge's family, the statement said they also attended the trial, which they described as "the horrific murders of our beautiful Hannah, and David Miller". We stand united in our grief with David's family and together wish to have privacy to follow the trial.

"Hannah was a beautiful person, inside and out, she brought a room alive just being there. She was fun, honest and loved life. Her bright future was brutally ended, leaving those who loved her broken with no answers."

They also asked that the media treat Hannah with dignity in their reporting of the trial. "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

"Please allow the police and the court to do their jobs during the coming weeks and months. We, of course, want to see those responsible for the brutal murder of our precious girl brought to justice."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Accused-in-Koh-Tao-murder-case-want-to-independent-30264065.html

If your so concerned about their wishes feel free to stop posting

[Linky]

Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

RTP purposefully DID NOT release toxicology reports right after the crime, when they should have. Their soggy reason: it might upset the victims' families, which to me, is BS. The victims' families were already devastated upon hearing of the demise of their lovely offspring, why would hearing toxicology reports upset them further?

Why should they have released the toxicology reports publicly prior to an arrest let alone a trial? Absolutely ZERO public good it would serve and being considerate of the families, who have since made clear they are already troubled by all the idiotic theories online, is a valid reasons.

These murders are not about you or anyone else on this forum and certainly the police and people involved in the actual investigation are not hear to serve the twisted need for some people to play detective online. This case will be decided in the courts and what you, I or anyone else thinks about that is meaningless. The family has expressed confidence in the investigation and the court and they are not only in a much better position to know more about the case and evidence but are the only ones whose interests and motivations to be part of this in this case/crime is above suspicion.

The family has expressed confidence in the investigation

For pity's sake stop bashing out the same old mantra will you. That statement was made via the FO almost 8 months ago! Please give the families some credit and try and understand that they are unlikely to be stuck in the same groove as you are and have been since this case began. You are not a spokesperson for the families and it's high time you took your own advice.

Actually the families released another statement just a week or two ago with at least one stating they want this to play out in the court and how speculation has been hurtful to the family and the victim's friends and that they wanted people to respect their privacy

I put the rights and respect of a fair trial for the accused and THEIR families above the request of the murdered victims families. This isnt all about the murdered victims families, in fact it is the opposite, it is now about the accuded and their families and ensuring the right people are caught.

So whatever they want at this juncture is irrelevant.

You have no evidence of any information the murdered couples families have received so your assertion that they know more is pure speculation. So why dont you heed your own advice and stop speculating.

[z42]

Well I wonder what CCTV panya menam was referring to when he made this statement to the press.....http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

Would certainly be a help if the court was to see that piece of CCTV, But the reality is that it will be in the "lost evidence" column too. Embarrassing

[JohnThailandJohn]

You have no evidence of any information the murdered couples families have received so your assertion that they know more is pure speculation. So why dont you heed your own advice and stop speculating.

Do you suspect they lied or were deceived or are just ignorant? I tend to believe they have no motive to lie and have a real concern in wanting the truth and in fact have taken advantage of all resource available to them including their embassy, UK Police, who were here and to investigate if their was any reason to suspect a cover-up was happening, and the UK Medical Examiner. So no reason for me to doubt their below statements that were shared after UK Police returned and met with them

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement."

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

[HUH]

Actually the families released another statement just a week or two ago with at least one stating they want this to play out in the court and how speculation has been hurtful to the family and the victim's friends and that they wanted people to respect their privacy

Dont you think its about time you stopped speaking for other people, the lawyer a few posts ago and now the the Miller family who did not say that. Its pretty easy to find the actual statement from them made at the beginning of the trial which you are referring to if you want the true one rather than your misinformation.

The Nation, Agencies [/size]July 9, 2015 1:00 am[/size]

The UK embassy in Bangkok released the statement of Miller's family, saying they had travelled to Koh[/size]Samui for the start of the trial into "the horrific murder of our loving son and brother David Miller, and Hannah Witheridge.[/size]

"The act which ended David's life devastated our family and his friends. Just hours before he died, David was talking to us with his usual enthusiasm, describing the beauty of Koh Tao and the friendliness of the Thai people. Over the coming weeks we hope to gain a better understanding as to how such a wonderful young man lost his life in such idyllic surroundings in such a horrible way."

"This pain will remain a part of us for the rest of our lives. We have borne our thoughts in silence, as we have not wanted to influence any court proceedings, but simply want to see justice done fairly and openly. We ask the media to afford David and Hannah dignity in the reporting of this trial and also that we are given privacy and respect while we battle with our emotions during the difficult weeks ahead."

For Witheridge's family, the statement said they also attended the trial, which they described as "the horrific murders of our beautiful Hannah, and David Miller". We stand united in our grief with David's family and together wish to have privacy to follow the trial.

"Hannah was a beautiful person, inside and out, she brought a room alive just being there. She was fun, honest and loved life. Her bright future was brutally ended, leaving those who loved her broken with no answers."

They also asked that the media treat Hannah with dignity in their reporting of the trial. "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

"Please allow the police and the court to do their jobs during the coming weeks and months. We, of course, want to see those responsible for the brutal murder of our precious girl brought to justice."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Accused-in-Koh-Tao-murder-case-want-to-independent-30264065.html

You'll notice I was referring to the Miller family, however I accept your link and see the Witherbridge family did also make a statement, but as his been mentioned many times this is now much bigger than just the family. You'll be testimony to that as you yourself are still speculating.

[fayou]

How about this Christopher Ware? If I recall correctly he had a bloody trouser in his luggage, or something? Have a good look at his right hand wrist...

Seems that all the foreigners named in regards to this case, carry wounds... just like Sean with the blood stained guitar...

If I were the judge, the trial would not even have begun without those two appearing in court. If I were the parent to one of the victims, I'd have asked Scotland Yard to put out an arrest warrant so they can be questioned, detained and if necessary put in a witness protection program. I think they are not just key witnesses, but involved somehow...

Ware stated that he got the injury on his arm previous to the murders and there were photos in the media that showed his arm bandaged before the crimes, but I agree that both British men could be involved in some capacity.

Sean had his injury since the 9th of September. 6 days before the murder. But what about the blood on his guitar? Was it from this accident or from another incident later on? Was this blood on the guitar ever tested for DNA and why he never wash this blood from his guitar.

This is one of the multiple phone screen shots i found on CSI LA. Published in a comment days later in a CSI post by unknown. Can be a thai person because his/her English grammar is not very good. Somebody he must know very well and also may be a resident from the Island Koh Tao. When he text-ed this message, Sean must have been already out of Thailand. It would be very interesting to hear his explanation of this.

Sean McAnna is Gianni DeLupo

recently (?) chaged to

Sean DiLupo ( Facebook)

[smedly]

Well I wonder what CCTV panya menam was referring to when he made this statement to the press.....http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

Would certainly be a help if the court was to see that piece of CCTV, But the reality is that it will be in the "lost evidence" column too. Embarrassing

did anyone notice the report a few pages back claiming there is cctv footage of the B2 on the log playing the guitar, first I heard tell of that one

[catsanddogs]

Mystery woman seen running around the time of crimes

Police are also trying to trace a mystery western woman seen on CCTV running along the main street in the early hours on the night of the murders

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

RTP have had over 10 months to find out who this woman is.

Why hasn't this CCTV been shown in court?

Police said the woman could have been Hannah, a suspect or a witness. The fact that there has been nothing to date regarding this mystery woman is deeply worrying.

Why didn't the RTP indicate what time this woman was seen running? They simply said 'in the early hours'

Possible reasons for pushing this information under the carpet -

It was Hannah and there was someone else in the shot that the RTP do not want implicated in the crimes.

It was one of Hannah's friends who knows what happened that night.

It was a witness to the crimes and the RTP got rid of her in some way.

The defence MUST be able to request this footage surely?

Some woman out there (if she's still alive) knows it was her.

excuse me if I am wrong but in that video we now see 3 Asian men in light green tee shirts which I have never seen in that footage before, I believe we have seen the same clip many times recently

Those three men have always been in that footage. There is no time stamp on that particular clip but what I find interesting -

Hannah and David are together with others so it is earlier on in the evening. The bloke with the headband, white tee shirt and shorts (seen from behind) looks like the same guy that David is seen talking with walking along the street at 1.56am in the tee shirt with the face on. The bit of footage that the policeman yesterday in court did not mention. So who is this guy and what might he know? I don't think it is one of David's mates who he was sharing a room with or that Tom guy either.

Here he is...