Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Neeranam]

t it's tongue in cheek, sadly. The bravado shown from behind the keyboard is as astonishing as their ignorance. Mildly entertaining though it is...

In case you are not a troll - What bravado? What are you going on about? Do you know flaming is against forum rules?

If you think justice will be served like it is in your country then you are the naive newbie and the ignorant one.

The ironic thing is that YOU would probably never say such a thing face to face.

whilst you maybe well intentioned what you are suggesting is already an offence in the UK inciting etc is a criminal act and far worse than flaming.

And you know what they say.

"Only empty cans Rattle"

What are you talking about - inciting?

Do you really think that an insult, disguised as some relatively unheard idiom, is any better?

[Darkknight666]

What about checking CCTV to see how Nomsod arrived on the island in the first place. Anything that proves he was there hurts his families credibility.

Are you mad???

That island was cleaned top to bottom. All cctv that was Incriminating dissapeared. All facebook accounts of locals cleared out pictures of NS. The word went out not to comment on the case. It was as close to surgi al wipe.down as they could muster.

There was a guy Chris who is a British guy works at a dive school who posted he had a beer with Sean McAnna thta night but that dissapeared.

Yes and the clearing out of photos and posts from facebook is easily verified, just go to any of the facebook pages of local dj's and all those with connections to AC bar and headmans family. Sept 2015 no longer exists on their facebook. This is a fact.

Which is something I've mentioned and still people say "does deleting your Facebook make you guilty?" Well not technically but it's very suspicious! I'd love to find shark tooth ring dudes FB.

Interesting point about "deleting your facebook"... I'm no expert but from what I have been reading it seems that where facebook is concerned the word "deleted" should be replaced with "hidden from view", because it would appear questionable if anything is ever truly deleted from facebook.

Here's an article from Oct 2011 that is quite enlightening (I did a quick search to see if the situation regarding facebook's data collection policies have changed since the article was written but nothing immediately suggested it has)

http://searchenginewatch.com/sew/news/2114059/facebook-file

According to the report in the above link, some of the information that is apparently held by facebook regardless of whether the user thinks they have deleted it:

• Every friend request youve ever received and how you responded.
• Every poke youve exchanged.
• Every event youve been invited to through Facebook and how you responded.
• The IP address used each and every time youve logged in to Facebook.
• Dates of user name changes and historical privacy settings changes.
• Camera metadata including time stamps and latitude/longitude of picture location, as well as tags from photos - even if youve untagged yourself.
• Credit card information, if youve ever purchased credits or advertising on Facebook.
• Your last known physical location, with latitude, longitude, time/date, altitude, and more. The report notes that they are unsure how Facebook collects this data.

Better Hope Youve Behaved Yourself...

Ever flirted with someone other than your spouse in a Facebook chat? You had better hope your message records dont end up in the hands of a divorce lawyer, because they can access even the ones youve deleted.

That day you called your employer in Chicago and begged off work, as you were sick? You logged in to Facebook from an IP address in Miami. Oops.

A few weeks ago, Australian hacker exposed Facebooks practice of tracking logged out users and they quickly fixed the problem (after trying to defend it, initially). But the extent to which they collect and keep information users may not even realize they are giving Facebook in the first place - or believe theyve deleted - is worrisome for privacy watchdogs.

And it would seem that this information is all potentially "available to attorneys and law enforcement via court order..."

Makes me glad I never embraced the whole facebook phenomenon.

I mentioned a loooong time ago that Facebook doesn't delete profiles they just disable them, And yes the info they store is available to law enforcement worldwide. A simple call or email to them from RTP they could check Facebook for the photos at AC bar... Photos others on the island or in AC shared to their timelines.

I have never disabled my FB, I wonder if anyone else here has ditched their original page and started new.

[stephenterry]

What about checking CCTV to see how Nomsod arrived on the island in the first place. Anything that proves he was there hurts his families credibility.

Are you mad???

That island was cleaned top to bottom. All cctv that was Incriminating dissapeared. All facebook accounts of locals cleared out pictures of NS. The word went out not to comment on the case. It was as close to surgi al wipe.down as they could muster.

There was a guy Chris who is a British guy works at a dive school who posted he had a beer with Sean McAnna thta night but that dissapeared.

Yes and the clearing out of photos and posts from facebook is easily verified, just go to any of the facebook pages of local dj's and all those with connections to AC bar and headmans family. Sept 2015 no longer exists on their facebook. This is a fact.

If proven, one could reason it was not to protect the B2. In which case it is prima facie evidence for the defence. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned on here before - or has it?

Prima Facie evidence, in legal terms, means that you have enough evidence to prove something by pointing to some basic facts but that the proof can be refuted. Now, not being a Facebook person, but I understand that it is a social media site, so are you able to explain why the removal of whatever from that site would, as you state, provide prima facia evidence for the defence? Evidence of what and no I am not being a smarty, it's just that I have no idea of what was posted or by whom and how it was detrimental to the defendants. So, if you would be kind enough to explain, then maybe I can see your point because at this stage I cannot.

In legal terms, my understanding that unless there is sufficient evidence to establish a prima facia case, then the matter may not proceed, that is after the defence or, in case of a civil action, the plaintiff's team , as well as the prosecution, addresses the court in respect of arguments for an against. Thailand law requires that a prima facie case be established, so given that the trail is proceeding, then it must have been established and it is now up to the defence to provide rebuttal evidence in order to contradict or nullify the evidence presented by the prosecution.

The OP quoted Cctv and other deletions including FB profiles. My point is why would a whole island be warned off to protect the b2? I don't know if that's factual and I said if proven it would provide evidence to the defence if it ever came out in the trial. Does that clarify where I'm coming from?

[stickylies]

I have never disabled my FB, I wonder if anyone else here has ditched their original page and started new.

I did. for some job-related thing i needed a fb account. when the job was done i disabled it. i never used my real name and signed up with an email address i used solely for that purpose and haven't checked anymore. my face was not online and I shared zero pix.

I have distrusted FB as soon as I heard about it. I don't feel the urge to give away "private" info, let alone publish 100's of pictures on social media. I have nothing to hide but I have definitely nothing to share with strangers. Most of my friends share almost everything, they even discuss private matters openly in comments (??!!). Where they shop, where they eat, where the kids go to skool, where the wife buys her panties, when they leave their appartment for several days (unattended), etc. The cry for LIKES (ie. egotism vs compulsion) disables common sense, these are not teenagers but educated adults... When I tell them it's not very smart they say 'you take things too seriously' ??? LOL !!!

[stephenterry]

Bit like on here, then. I only wish they had an unlike button

[stickylies]

Bit like on here, then. I only wish they had an unlike button

Well, at least (i'm glad) we don't have to watch pictures from TV members and their family/offspring/pickup/suhcoopy

[Si Thea01]

Here is the original CCTV of running man from a Thai paper. Listen. Somebody would have been sleeping and heard screams and fighting, it would wake me up anyways, and I'd record at the very least, More likely I would go see what in the world was going on. My presumptions, Yes.

Thanks for your response. You initially indicated a shadow, and yes I can see that but only the one which is behind the person walking right to left. I do see movement in the area you designated but have you ever thought of it being an optical illusion. The human eyes often play tricks and this comes about when the brain receives messages and it interprets them.

Even though we may all see the same thing, it is in fact, an illusion, and in this instance may be caused by the position of various lighting in the immediate area. I could be wrong but the movement appears to be in tandem with the movement of the person as he nears the left of the frame. If it was another person, I believe it would have been noticed much earlier than the 14 second mark that you indicated. If you find this implausible, then feel free to offer your version as to why it has occurred.

Apologize for butting in but I think I can help here. On the cctv then looking at the time stamp of 0:14 and the video time stamp of 04:51:28 then this is where the shadow of what I believe to be the woman is walking ahead of the running/walking man.

I come to that by the cctv screenshots that I've attached and you see:

The mystery man and woman with the woman holding his hand and walking slightly behind him at a time of 04:51:25 followed by the running/walking man at 04:51:28 just 0.3 seconds behind the couple.

Not a problem, not butting in because you have shown me something that I was not aware of and it appears that the running man is only 3 seconds behind them. Many say this is Nomsod, is that correct? Now, is anyone able to indicate if these two persons have or have not been identified, or even interviewed, whether or not they are in the list of the many witnesses appearing for either the prosecution or defence?

If the answer is no, or don't know, then why are people procrastinating over this footage. If it has no evidentiary value, then honestly, it is worthless and only provides an avenue that leads to nowhere. Not even an inference could be drawn from it, therefore, even though, from what I have read, that police initially indicated he was a person of interest, did they follow up in their attempts to identify the mysterious two, I don't really know, so we'll just have to wait and see?

[Darkknight666]

I have never disabled my FB, I wonder if anyone else here has ditched their original page and started new.

I did. for some job-related thing i needed a fb account. when the job was done i disabled it. i never used my real name and signed up with an email address i used solely for that purpose and haven't checked anymore. my face was not online and I shared zero pix.

I have distrusted FB as soon as I heard about it. I don't feel the urge to give away "private" info, let alone publish 100's of pictures on social media. I have nothing to hide but I have definitely nothing to share with strangers. Most of my friends share almost everything, they even discuss private matters openly in comments (??!!). Where they shop, where they eat, where the kids go to skool, where the wife buys her panties, when they leave their appartment for several days (unattended), etc. The cry for LIKES (ie. egotism vs compulsion) disables common sense, these are not teenagers but educated adults... When I tell them it's not very smart they say 'you take things too seriously' ??? LOL !!!

I don't use Facebook anymore and thought about deleting it.. Since it's never "deleted" anyway I decided to keep it. I also can catch up on with friends now and then if I feel like seeing what everyone ate for the day or what the daily drama is.

I just find so many Koh Tao locals pages being scrubbed/disabled is highly suspect. The pages I'm referring to were left up for at least a few weeks before Thai forums had the links and we're discussing the case, then the links went down. So it's not just simple starting a new page. It's obstruction.

[Nigeone]

Darkknight666

Edited July 28, 2015 by Nigeone

[thailandchilli]

Here is the original CCTV of running man from a Thai paper. Listen. Somebody would have been sleeping and heard screams and fighting, it would wake me up anyways, and I'd record at the very least, More likely I would go see what in the world was going on. My presumptions, Yes.

Thanks for your response. You initially indicated a shadow, and yes I can see that but only the one which is behind the person walking right to left. I do see movement in the area you designated but have you ever thought of it being an optical illusion. The human eyes often play tricks and this comes about when the brain receives messages and it interprets them.

Even though we may all see the same thing, it is in fact, an illusion, and in this instance may be caused by the position of various lighting in the immediate area. I could be wrong but the movement appears to be in tandem with the movement of the person as he nears the left of the frame. If it was another person, I believe it would have been noticed much earlier than the 14 second mark that you indicated. If you find this implausible, then feel free to offer your version as to why it has occurred.

Apologize for butting in but I think I can help here. On the cctv then looking at the time stamp of 0:14 and the video time stamp of 04:51:28 then this is where the shadow of what I believe to be the woman is walking ahead of the running/walking man.

I come to that by the cctv screenshots that I've attached and you see:

The mystery man and woman with the woman holding his hand and walking slightly behind him at a time of 04:51:25 followed by the running/walking man at 04:51:28 just 0.3 seconds behind the couple.

Not a problem, not butting in because you have shown me something that I was not aware of and it appears that the running man is only 3 seconds behind them. Many say this is Nomsod, is that correct? Now, is anyone able to indicate if these two persons have or have not been identified, or even interviewed, whether or not they are in the list of the many witnesses appearing for either the prosecution or defence?

If the answer is no, or don't know, then why are people procrastinating over this footage. If it has no evidentiary value, then honestly, it is worthless and only provides an avenue that leads to nowhere. Not even an inference could be drawn from it, therefore, even though, from what I have read, that police initially indicated he was a person of interest, did they follow up in their attempts to identify the mysterious two, I don't really know, so we'll just have to wait and see?

Actually this was not about Nomsod, it was about 2 people in the very close proximity of the running man, those 2 people would be a witness and could possibly identify him, be it Nomsod, B2, another unknown suspect or the man from Mars, those 2 people could have further info and even be involved themselves, thats what its about. Now to speculating about them then that would be a normal thing to do considering that this is a double murder and we have not heard anything from the prosecution on this despite them having gone through all the cctv at the last court session.

I'm not asking your opinion I was responding to your post and clarifying as you were under the impression that there was nobody there and it was a blur.

[Si Thea01]

What about checking CCTV to see how Nomsod arrived on the island in the first place. Anything that proves he was there hurts his families credibility.

Are you mad???

That island was cleaned top to bottom. All cctv that was Incriminating dissapeared. All facebook accounts of locals cleared out pictures of NS. The word went out not to comment on the case. It was as close to surgi al wipe.down as they could muster.

There was a guy Chris who is a British guy works at a dive school who posted he had a beer with Sean McAnna thta night but that dissapeared.

Yes and the clearing out of photos and posts from facebook is easily verified, just go to any of the facebook pages of local dj's and all those with connections to AC bar and headmans family. Sept 2015 no longer exists on their facebook. This is a fact.

If proven, one could reason it was not to protect the B2. In which case it is prima facie evidence for the defence. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned on here before - or has it?

Prima Facie evidence, in legal terms, means that you have enough evidence to prove something by pointing to some basic facts but that the proof can be refuted. Now, not being a Facebook person, but I understand that it is a social media site, so are you able to explain why the removal of whatever from that site would, as you state, provide prima facia evidence for the defence? Evidence of what and no I am not being a smarty, it's just that I have no idea of what was posted or by whom and how it was detrimental to the defendants. So, if you would be kind enough to explain, then maybe I can see your point because at this stage I cannot.

In legal terms, my understanding that unless there is sufficient evidence to establish a prima facia case, then the matter may not proceed, that is after the defence or, in case of a civil action, the plaintiff's team , as well as the prosecution, addresses the court in respect of arguments for an against. Thailand law requires that a prima facie case be established, so given that the trail is proceeding, then it must have been established and it is now up to the defence to provide rebuttal evidence in order to contradict or nullify the evidence presented by the prosecution.

The OP quoted Cctv and other deletions including FB profiles. My point is why would a whole island be warned off to protect the b2? I don't know if that's factual and I said if proven it would provide evidence to the defence if it ever came out in the trial. Does that clarify where I'm coming from?

Thanks for your response.

[Darkknight666]

Here is the original CCTV of running man from a Thai paper. Listen. Somebody would have been sleeping and heard screams and fighting, it would wake me up anyways, and I'd record at the very least, More likely I would go see what in the world was going on. My presumptions, Yes.

Thanks for your response. You initially indicated a shadow, and yes I can see that but only the one which is behind the person walking right to left. I do see movement in the area you designated but have you ever thought of it being an optical illusion. The human eyes often play tricks and this comes about when the brain receives messages and it interprets them.

Even though we may all see the same thing, it is in fact, an illusion, and in this instance may be caused by the position of various lighting in the immediate area. I could be wrong but the movement appears to be in tandem with the movement of the person as he nears the left of the frame. If it was another person, I believe it would have been noticed much earlier than the 14 second mark that you indicated. If you find this implausible, then feel free to offer your version as to why it has occurred.

Apologize for butting in but I think I can help here. On the cctv then looking at the time stamp of 0:14 and the video time stamp of 04:51:28 then this is where the shadow of what I believe to be the woman is walking ahead of the running/walking man.

I come to that by the cctv screenshots that I've attached and you see:

The mystery man and woman with the woman holding his hand and walking slightly behind him at a time of 04:51:25 followed by the running/walking man at 04:51:28 just 0.3 seconds behind the couple.

Not a problem, not butting in because you have shown me something that I was not aware of and it appears that the running man is only 3 seconds behind them. Many say this is Nomsod, is that correct? Now, is anyone able to indicate if these two persons have or have not been identified, or even interviewed, whether or not they are in the list of the many witnesses appearing for either the prosecution or defence?

If the answer is no, or don't know, then why are people procrastinating over this footage. If it has no evidentiary value, then honestly, it is worthless and only provides an avenue that leads to nowhere. Not even an inference could be drawn from it, therefore, even though, from what I have read, that police initially indicated he was a person of interest, did they follow up in their attempts to identify the mysterious two, I don't really know, so we'll just have to wait and see?

Actually this was not about Nomsod, it was about 2 people in the very close proximity of the running man, those 2 people would be a witness and could possibly identify him, be it Nomsod, B2, another unknown suspect or the man from Mars, those 2 people could have further info and even be involved themselves, thats what its about. Now to speculating about them then that would be a normal thing to do considering that this is a double murder and we have not heard anything from the prosecution on this despite them having gone through all the cctv at the last court session.

I'm not asking your opinion I was responding to your post and clarifying as you were under the impression that there was nobody there and it was a blur.

Key witnesses as well, I'd argue.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I wonder what this means from a Media Report on November 07th. Any ideas?

"There has been delay because some witnesses live in Bangkok," public prosecutor Tawatchai told Khaosod. "The relatives of the defendants have also asked for fairness, so officials are investigating the points they requested in order to give fairness to all sides."

[GOLDBUGGY]

Never saw this Media Report before about the National Human Rights Commission.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1415024472&section=12&typecate=06

[Si Thea01]

Thailandchilli

I asked a simple question about Nomsod, and then queried if the other two had been identified, were possible witnesses or even interviewed. You have a problem with that do you? And so sorry that I didn't seek your permission to post more, I'll remember in future. But just for you benefit, you posted you opinion, and I have no problem with that. Why is your reply so ingracious? I thought I was being civil but it appears that you do not have the ability to read between the lines because I actually thanked you. It appears that no matter what or who, you seem to have the need to find something to have a go at as it seems that nothing pleases you.

[minikev]

Here is the original CCTV of running man from a Thai paper. Listen. Somebody would have been sleeping and heard screams and fighting, it would wake me up anyways, and I'd record at the very least, More likely I would go see what in the world was going on. My presumptions, Yes.

The important question here is if you look at the guy returning, there is obviously someone walking in front of him as the shadow can be seen - why did they cut the other person out ? Who were they and who did the editting?

I've looked at this a few times now and not sure I can see a shadow of anyone apart from the obvious. There is shading around but that could be trees etc

Yes this is the missing minutes of the cctv where there is someone walking in front, it is thought to be the mystery couple and prime witnesses to the running man and maybe a lot more involved? More cctv footage that is being withheld from the court and public viewing!!

Well done Thailandchilli.

What do you have to say to this particular conspiracy theory Si thea 01? quote: May I ask but just how many shadows do you see in this footage? 3 seconds apart perhaps just about the right time to leave a shadow.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that these people so far have no record of questioning? Perhaps they will turn up in court. Somehow I doubt it.

[loonodingle]

Thailandchilli

I asked a simple question about Nomsod, and then queried if the other two had been identified, were possible witnesses or even interviewed. You have a problem with that do you? And so sorry that I didn't seek your permission to post more, I'll remember in future. But just for you benefit, you posted you opinion, and I have no problem with that. Why is your reply so ingracious? I thought I was being civil but it appears that you do not have the ability to read between the lines because I actually thanked you. It appears that no matter what or who, you seem to have the need to find something to have a go at as it seems that nothing pleases you.

My Personal View on N/S and Co is don't waste your brain space anymore with him. There's more chance of ISIS turning into Buddhist Monks than any of us getting a more positive and open answer to the concerns any of us have due to the initial disclosure by Panya. The Disclosure he had evidence that it was them.

You can beat yourself up on here and it doesn't get you any further in fact it only enhances the helplessness that some people may feel.

In the first few months I ran up and down to Norwich and Yarmouth getting info for Reprieve and Co. Tracing witnesses home address's etc as police wouldn't disclose them. Wrote and called the MP's and the clergyman who conducted the service in an effort to get the statements reconsidered on humanitarian grounds. Stonewalled by the lot of them. In fact The F'kin MP said he would return any documents I sent to him.

Nobody wants to upset the family. Which on one hand I can understand but on the other 2 family's are possibly going to lose their sons who may be innocent.

All anyone of us wants is to know that in this case the correct people are found guilty. If its the B2 then so be I have no concern for them if they are guilty. However they are being carried along by a tidal wave of emotion from the Thai Gov and Police that says No Thai Would Commit Such a Crime.

We all know that's B/S and as much as we know that we also know that N/S if guilty would never be tried in a court of law. However Karma has a funny way of catching up with people some day some way.

The Uk End has built up a good case and you will all be pleased with their defence going forward when its their turn. They have some good brains and experts in their fields who have poured over this case. They have the Autopsy results. They have a defence and with the Thai Forensics on board as well hopefully we will see another side to this story that Tinkles on some of the peoples suppositions posted in this forum.

That's my take on this case. I am off to the Beach..Spains Baking at the Moment and I cant stand the heat need a dip in something cold....

[boomerangutang]

Years ago, my first g.f. in Thailand was a cute hill tribe gal. When I'd ask her about an English word she studied the day before, she would say 'forget' ...but it would come out sounding like 'f--- it'

Thailand's lead inspector on this case is a Police Colonel. His responses to nearly all questions (by the defense), in court recently, was 'I don't know' Here's a suggestion to the fuzzy-brained Colonel: try spicing up your responses by saying 'forget' once in awhile, Thai style. It would take some of the boredom out of the long drawn-out proceedings.

Incidentally, at the rate this trial is going, they'll be lucky to touch upon 1/10th of pertinent data relating to evidence. Do they know that? Or are they content to just brush the surface, and then make a decision based on societal proclivities. Personally, I'd like to see it drawn out, because RTP is getting caught in its conspiracy spider web of its own making. Maybe, just maybe, the people who were initially (and who should still be) prime suspects - will be slapped in jail with no bail, as they should be.

I think it would be a great idea for one of the good writers on Thai Visa such as your self could write an open letter to the PM requesting release of the B2 and reasons why and maybe others could put it on other social media places.

I would like to see the B2 at least granted bail - so they don't have to sleep with 3/8" chains on their ankles. But I'd have better chance convincing the Pope to get a sex-change and join Lady Gaga's back-up band, than any influence with father-knows-best Thai PM.

You never know until you try I have a good sense that it could have a lot more impact if he is confronted with it. Because it's possible he is being kept in the dark.

From his speech and actions, it appears the PM has priorities, as follows......

>>> Make as much money as possible

>>> Maintain as much power as possible

>>> Make sure he and his buddies stay insulated from criticism

>>> Do everything China suggests, including purchasing trains, subs, highways, .....

>>> Suppress peaceful demonstrations with force

and a lot further down the line ....concern for uppity farang and their silly ideas of justice for a couple of poor powerless Burmese.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Read and re-read quite a lot of this thread.

I agree with, amongst others, balo...

Further, it is my opinion that JTJ and Goldbuggy live in la-la land. It's a made up name strangely...

Of course they are entitled to an opinion, but as no one person on this 'thread' has the whole knowledge or indeed expertise outside of their comfort zone, we shall all need to wait and see.

But it makes fascinating reading...in a purely fictitious sense.

Justice will win the day I hope.

Sorry but I don't remember anyone claiming they had "whole knowledge" of this case. Even the Gang from the Hang-em High or Conspiracy Group. So perhaps it is only you in your own made up la-la land? So please go back to whatever you are smoking and enjoy the show.

Thank you Goldbuggy.

I haven't suggested one person had whole knowledge, quite the opposite in fact. But you as the pseudo chairperson of the 'conspirators' as I read it, seem to know enough to spin the drivel quite affectively. Wish I smoked whatever it is that clouds your thought processes...keep it real, La la land is proud of you.

You just continue to prove to me you know nothing about this case.

I have been called many names here on this site, but the one name I was never called before was "Chairperson of the Conspirators". Even they would tell you that.Hell! The Hang-em High Group could to!

Second thought stop what you are smoking. It is making you belligerent.

[minikev]

Thailandchilli

I asked a simple question about Nomsod, and then queried if the other two had been identified, were possible witnesses or even interviewed. You have a problem with that do you? And so sorry that I didn't seek your permission to post more, I'll remember in future. But just for you benefit, you posted you opinion, and I have no problem with that. Why is your reply so ingracious? I thought I was being civil but it appears that you do not have the ability to read between the lines because I actually thanked you. It appears that no matter what or who, you seem to have the need to find something to have a go at as it seems that nothing pleases you.

My Personal View on N/S and Co is don't waste your brain space anymore with him. There's more chance of ISIS turning into Buddhist Monks than any of us getting a more positive and open answer to the concerns any of us have due to the initial disclosure by Panya. The Disclosure he had evidence that it was them.

You can beat yourself up on here and it doesn't get you any further in fact it only enhances the helplessness that some people may feel.

In the first few months I ran up and down to Norwich and Yarmouth getting info for Reprieve and Co. Tracing witnesses home address's etc as police wouldn't disclose them. Wrote and called the MP's and the clergyman who conducted the service in an effort to get the statements reconsidered on humanitarian grounds. Stonewalled by the lot of them. In fact The F'kin MP said he would return any documents I sent to him.

Nobody wants to upset the family. Which on one hand I can understand but on the other 2 family's are possibly going to lose their sons who may be innocent.

All anyone of us wants is to know that in this case the correct people are found guilty. If its the B2 then so be I have no concern for them if they are guilty. However they are being carried along by a tidal wave of emotion from the Thai Gov and Police that says No Thai Would Commit Such a Crime.

We all know that's B/S and as much as we know that we also know that N/S if guilty would never be tried in a court of law. However Karma has a funny way of catching up with people some day some way.

The Uk End has built up a good case and you will all be pleased with their defence going forward when its their turn. They have some good brains and experts in their fields who have poured over this case. They have the Autopsy results. They have a defence and with the Thai Forensics on board as well hopefully we will see another side to this story that Tinkles on some of the peoples suppositions posted in this forum.

That's my take on this case. I am off to the Beach..Spains Baking at the Moment and I cant stand the heat need a dip in something cold....

Enjoy the beach Loon and well done for your efforts. It's one thing to sit at your keyboard which is about all i've done but getting off yer jacksy and driving here and there is commendable. I feel it will play out well. Of course I have my reservations but I am sure cases in the future will be dealt with in a different way.

[boomerangutang]

John, why is there no footage from AC bar at all? They have working CCTV but there's no record of who went in and out? It's conveniently missing or not been looked at?

Where is your source that there was cameras in the AC Bar? ....

There is at least one camera on the front entrance to the AC bar. An actual working camera on KT, amazing! It shows David entering the bar about 2.5 hours before the crime, but then ..... It shows nothing else. So even that one camera seized filming. Why? Did it show people entering and/or leaving the bar which the Headman, Mon, police and prosecution don't want any outsiders to see? If so, it shouldn't surprise anyone at this point, if RTP are continuing to hide/destroy/ignore/discount/misinterpret evidence.

Sorry but that is also speculation from your side. Has the court asked for more CCTV footage from AC bar yet ? How do you know that the footage from the one camera working was deleted? What we saw in the media was David enetering the bar, there could be also other images from that camera published.

You assume the rest of the footage was deleted or has it been confirmed?

You're partly right. On the one hand I don't know for sure. But that's a result of the RTP who purposefully want to keep people in the dark - not just me but the defense, the judges, and everyone else. The RTP said words to the effect that; 'that was the last significant bit of CCTV from the bar that night.' Yet, that's coming from the RTP who have indicated in numerous ways that they have an agenda - to shield the Headman's people. So, for example, it's possible Nomsod or Mon or Stingray Man or any of the tough-guy buddies (who frequent that bar) to have entered or exited that doorway after the footage of David. But, unless footage is shown, we'll never know. Alternatively, you can take the word of the RTP as being honest. Good luck with that. It's the same RTP which doesn't see Nomsod in Running Man video (oh sorry, correction: they did definitely see Nomsod in that video, but abruptly changed their view when Somyot took over). The same experts which didn't even bother to look at CCTV of boats leaving the beach shortly after the crime. The same RTP which says there is only a minute or so of video (from 'hundreds of hours') which has any relevance to the crime or its perpetrators. the same RTP which believed Mon when he said he was 'Running Man' ....but now the RTP are saying it's one of the Burmese. Both of those assertions are ridiculous. I wouldn't trust them to give me the correct time of day, but if you choose to trust everything they state, that's your choice.

[boomerangutang]

OK genuine replies only

Does anybody recall or know when and how the allegations of an altercation in a bar between one of the victims and a thai first materialised

Interesting question, I hope they did not come from gossip.

If I remember correctly a witness told it to a local reporter on the island.

I read recently that Muang Muang (the 3rd Burmese lad) claimed he had a tussle with Nomsod in AC bar that night (14th and 15th) and that David showed up to do or say something (pull them apart?). It may be rumor, but it's very likely MM will be a witness - probably for the defense. Even if it appears as rumor, it's the sort of thing RTP should investigate, yet it's the precise sort of the thing the RTP doesn't want to look in to. The reason is obvious: Anything which could implicate people connected to the Headman, is off-limits for investigators.

[jimmybkk]

Not a problem, not butting in because you have shown me something that I was not aware of and it appears that the running man is only 3 seconds behind them. Many say this is Nomsod, is that correct? Now, is anyone able to indicate if these two persons have or have not been identified, or even interviewed, whether or not they are in the list of the many witnesses appearing for either the prosecution or defence?

As I recall the images of the couple walking a few steps ahead of the running man were originally released as being the last known images of David & Hannah alive... Yup, this bearded man with a baseball cap and his Asian-looking female friend were somehow mistaken for clean-shaven, capless David and blond-haired Hannah. I have never heard them mentioned since it was (fairly quickly) ascertained that these were not in fact images of the deceased.

[jimmybkk]

Not a problem, not butting in because you have shown me something that I was not aware of and it appears that the running man is only 3 seconds behind them. Many say this is Nomsod, is that correct? Now, is anyone able to indicate if these two persons have or have not been identified, or even interviewed, whether or not they are in the list of the many witnesses appearing for either the prosecution or defence?

As I recall the images of the couple walking a few steps ahead of the running man were originally released as being the last known images of David & Hannah alive... Yup, this bearded man with a baseball cap and his Asian-looking female friend were somehow mistaken for clean-shaven, capless David and blond-haired Hannah. I have never heard them mentioned since it was (fairly quickly) ascertained that these were not in fact images of the deceased.

[bunglebag]

What about checking CCTV to see how Nomsod arrived on the island in the first place. Anything that proves he was there hurts his families credibility.

Are you mad???

That island was cleaned top to bottom. All cctv that was Incriminating dissapeared. All facebook accounts of locals cleared out pictures of NS. The word went out not to comment on the case. It was as close to surgi al wipe.down as they could muster.

There was a guy Chris who is a British guy works at a dive school who posted he had a beer with Sean McAnna thta night but that dissapeared.

Yes and the clearing out of photos and posts from facebook is easily verified, just go to any of the facebook pages of local dj's and all those with connections to AC bar and headmans family. Sept 2015 no longer exists on their facebook. This is a fact.

There was a response from Sean about that Chris guy back in 2014 - He said he had no idea who he was. Could be genuine or could have been a local batting for Mon's team?

Anyways, whilst perusing various facebook pages I found a shared post on one (in Thai and dated 31-10-14) going into great length about how Nomsod had been cleared by DNA etc. The latter part of this message (several paragraphs) seemed to be telling people somewhat forcibly that they had to get rid of any references to the incident or risk serious trouble from the police. It was on a DJs profile (but one from Bar next 2 rather than AC bar - usual suspects on friends list though)

I copied it and ran it through bing translation, which I doubt it is desperately accurate but hopefully accurate enough that the gist is correct.

I can't post it here as it is in Thai, but it could explain why a lot of stuff from September got wiped after a month or two.

I could post the translated version maybe but cannot guarantee its accuracy.

[bunglebag]

What about checking CCTV to see how Nomsod arrived on the island in the first place. Anything that proves he was there hurts his families credibility.

Are you mad???

That island was cleaned top to bottom. All cctv that was Incriminating dissapeared. All facebook accounts of locals cleared out pictures of NS. The word went out not to comment on the case. It was as close to surgi al wipe.down as they could muster.

There was a guy Chris who is a British guy works at a dive school who posted he had a beer with Sean McAnna thta night but that dissapeared.

Yes and the clearing out of photos and posts from facebook is easily verified, just go to any of the facebook pages of local dj's and all those with connections to AC bar and headmans family. Sept 2015 no longer exists on their facebook. This is a fact.

There was a response from Sean about that Chris guy back in 2014 - He said he had no idea who he was. Could be genuine or could have been a local batting for Mon's team?

Anyways, whilst perusing various facebook pages I found a shared post on one (in Thai and dated 31-10-14) going into great length about how Nomsod had been cleared by DNA etc. The latter part of this message (several paragraphs) seemed to be telling people somewhat forcibly that they had to get rid of any references to the incident or risk serious trouble from the police. It was on a DJs profile (but one from Bar next 2 rather than AC bar - usual suspects on friends list though)

I copied it and ran it through bing translation, which I doubt it is desperately accurate but hopefully accurate enough that the gist is correct.

I can't post it here as it is in Thai, but it could explain why a lot of stuff from September got wiped after a month or two.

I could post the translated version maybe but cannot guarantee its accuracy.

[bunglebag]

Do tell us how her DNA could have been found on the ciggy if she didn't touch or smoke it.

You are kidding right? Are you one of the people criticizing DNA collections and talking about contamination and stuff but you don't know about transfer? If her DNA was in the cigarette, as widely reported early on, there are so many plausible and likely ways her DNA was on the cigarette beyond her smoking it. The DNA could have come from the suspects fingers or lips that had her DNA (blood, skin cells, saliva or cellular material found in sweat). If this was true, there would likely not be enough DNA to retest for her DNA on the butt but the DNA should still be available for testing because they should/would have used PCR testing to replicate the DNA on the butt being it would have been a small amount while also allowing to keep the replicated samples for further testing if needed .... which jives with what police said they have.

Were you one of the people that also was going on and on about DNA on the outside of the condemn but not the inside and it being proof of a setup? Yet, we find out through reported testimony that the DNA on the condom was a drop of blood that could have gotten on there a number of ways including from splatter to being dripped or touched to possibly others.

The problem with people making up theories and playing internet detective is when you don;t know all the facts is ... people don't know all the facts but draw conclusion based on theories that were based on a guess. Nothing wrong with speculating and having theories but what goes on online is mostly people drawing facts from stuff they don;t know and not seeing the difference between a plausible theory and one based on complete BS.

Yeah JTJ your theory make sense if they had had a cigarette after the murder. Yet you said you didn't say that.

So how does Hannah's DNA get on a ciggy they smoked before they killed her ?

The prosecution alleged that Win and Saw shared a ciggie whilst taking it in turns to carry out the attack on Hannah correct?

But was the cigarette in question not found by the log, right in front of In Touch resort and 60m from the alleged crime scene?

So is the prosecution saying the crime happened by the log?

[bunglebag]

Thanks Loon for posting that Youtube segment.

In case anyone is wondering whether Thailand subscribes to such silly notions as 'innocent until proven guilty'

watch the video, and you can see/hear the head cop saying they're guilty.

He also says a bunch of other conspiracy crap which isn't true, but that's what we're discussing herein, isn't it.

It's yet proof again, as if any more were needed, of the attempted frame-up of the B2. Their case is unraveling faster than a drag racing car hitting the side barrier at full throttle. Mark my words: Head cop Somyot and his fellow conspirators will split from Thailand, never to be pursued, b4 2 long. Oh, and am still waiting for my 1 million baht reward from the Headman, for providing evidence his son committed the crime. Should I quit standing by my mailbox waiting for the check?

So he claims the suspects escaped on the motorbike, (that is exactly what he said) where is the cctv footage of them leaving the crime scene on the motorbike ? and the reason this would be critical evidence is simple, it would show what time they left the beach or rather that they were possibly on the beach when the rape and murders were committed

Yes and he also states that they have the motorbike impounded too. Which leads me to say if his scenario is correct and the B2 left on the motorbike where is the DNA from the motor bike. There has to be from the state of the crime scene and the blood splattered over the sand blood etc transferred to clothing and of course then onto the bike. If this was what happened of course ! Mind you where is the B2 clothes from that night ? And the bike could,have been cleaned but I wonder if it's ever been checked. They haven't mentioned it and I suspect it wouldn't have been

If they 'escaped' on a motorbike after the crime there would surely be cctv of this?

[jimmybkk]

Not a problem, not butting in because you have shown me something that I was not aware of and it appears that the running man is only 3 seconds behind them. Many say this is Nomsod, is that correct? Now, is anyone able to indicate if these two persons have or have not been identified, or even interviewed, whether or not they are in the list of the many witnesses appearing for either the prosecution or defence?

As I recall the images of the couple walking a few steps ahead of the running man were originally released as being the last known images of David & Hannah alive... Yup, this bearded man with a baseball cap and his Asian-looking female friend were somehow mistaken for clean-shaven, capless David and blond-haired Hannah. I have never heard them mentioned since it was (fairly quickly) ascertained that these were not in fact images of the deceased.

[PaPiPuPePo]

Just a thought for you JTJ. Have you considered that they may be people in here with forensic experience!?

Because I have and it's likely !

Not based on any comments I have scene. Not to mention a forensic expert would want to examine the wounds and not use internet pictures to draw conclusions. Am sure I have missed many posts here but from what I can tell there are no forensic, DNA, crime scene or just about any other types of experts related to this case posting here. Then again there can be some among the huge amount of outrageous and and comical posts here from the keyboard experts.

Well I know for a fact there is people of those same fields in here. Trust me !

Correction, notice you said related to this case ! No but looking in yes!! And the is experts in there field related to the skills needed to handle a case like this. Yes

JTJ writes:

"Then again there can be some among the huge amount of outrageous and and comical posts here from the keyboard experts."

From perhaps the most prolific producer of outrageous and comical posts, the ultimate phoney keyboard expert.

And I thought putting him on ignore would give me a break from his bull cocky......