Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[berybert]

Berybert,

I see you still can't make a post to me without calling me a name. Then you say I am child like. (Ha!Ha!Ha!) Yeah! Right!

Okay! Since you said this, "This tiny Nomsod guy who is a lot bigger than the 2 Burmese"., I honestly didn't know that as I couldn't tell from those Grainy CCTV Images.

So how tall is Nomsad and how much does he weigh?

You have been following this case since day 1 so you say. If this is the case then you should know how tall Nomsod is as it has been mentioned several times.

Thank you for admitting the man in the grainy CCTV images is indeed Nomsod, again you would be perfect for the RTP.

Well Son, I am too old to join any Police Force, so again you are wrong. Just more Blah!Blah!Blah! Like when you just said you knew Nomsad was a lot bigger then the 2 accused, but have no idea how tall he is or his weight.

Yet another grown up response.

[Basil B]

Funds needed by the MWRN to bring British crime scene and forensic experts over to Samui for the Koh Tao murder trial

KOH SAMUI: -- The Migrant Workers Rights Network (MWRN) is looking for support in order to raise funds urgently required to fly UK based crime scene investigators and forensic experts to Samui to appear as witnesses in September.

The defense team has said that it has received unspecified information and evidence from UK authorities that was ‘not consistent” with findings obtained from Thai authorities and used by the prosecution in the cases.

The defense team has asked the court for independent tests to be carried out on DNA however the vital DNA evidence that links the two defendants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the body of one of the victims cannot be produced for retesting.

Pol Col Somkiat Kaewmook, deputy chief of Surat Thani provincial police, said: “Some forensic materials were used up in the testing process, which means they do not exist.”

The MWRN and the defense team have long believed that the two defendants are being used as scapegoats and continue to fight for justice for the two men, both 22 and working as barmen on Koh Tao at the time of the murders. Whether or not this is true remains to be seen.

-- Samui Times 2015-07-11

Thats was quick!!

Firstly £1,000 (50,000THB/1,500USD) is far short of the amount needed...

Secondly I would like to see the UK government to fund it, not to support the defence but to establish the true facts, which may assist the defence... or could assist the prosecution.

[rockingrobin]

Berybert,

I see you still can't make a post to me without calling me a name. Then you say I am child like. (Ha!Ha!Ha!) Yeah! Right!

Okay! Since you said this, "This tiny Nomsod guy who is a lot bigger than the 2 Burmese"., I honestly didn't know that as I couldn't tell from those Grainy CCTV Images.

So how tall is Nomsad and how much does he weigh?

You have been following this case since day 1 so you say. If this is the case then you should know how tall Nomsod is as it has been mentioned several times.

Thank you for admitting the man in the grainy CCTV images is indeed Nomsod, again you would be perfect for the RTP.

Well Son, I am too old to join any Police Force, so again you are wrong. Just more Blah!Blah!Blah! Like when you just said you knew Nomsad was a lot bigger then the 2 accused, but have no idea how tall he is or his weight.

GB in all honesty have you been following this from day 1 ?

With regards to height, it is well known that Nomsod i taller than the B2, and has been reported before.

In fact Nomsod fits the height profile determined by forensic analysis of one guy seen on cctv , 160-170 cm tall

[Mooner]

From GB posts you can tell he hasn't been following the case.

The height issue was discussed when the cctv of running man was discussed and it was compared to the universal door height around 2m to 2m 10.

That is just one thing he us unaware of.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Berybert,

I see you still can't make a post to me without calling me a name. Then you say I am child like. (Ha!Ha!Ha!) Yeah! Right!

Okay! Since you said this, "This tiny Nomsod guy who is a lot bigger than the 2 Burmese"., I honestly didn't know that as I couldn't tell from those Grainy CCTV Images.

So how tall is Nomsad and how much does he weigh?

You have been following this case since day 1 so you say. If this is the case then you should know how tall Nomsod is as it has been mentioned several times.

Thank you for admitting the man in the grainy CCTV images is indeed Nomsod, again you would be perfect for the RTP.

Well Son, I am too old to join any Police Force, so again you are wrong. Just more Blah!Blah!Blah! Like when you just said you knew Nomsad was a lot bigger then the 2 accused, but have no idea how tall he is or his weight.

GB in all honesty have you been following this from day 1 ?

With regards to height, it is well known that Nomsod i taller than the B2, and has been reported before.

In fact Nomsod fits the height profile determined by forensic analysis of one guy seen on cctv , 160-170 cm tall

No! I am sorry I missed that part where they mention Nomsod's height. Can you please link that here.

[bunglebag]

At first I read that there was DNA evidence inside her body. Now I read that the evidence was in a condom.

Forgive me, but ...was the condom in her body or was that in addition to the DNA in her body? Two samples or one? Either way, I can't see why they would be cautious of leaving DNA and then on the other hand be so reckless about it to either leave it behind in her or allow another to not use one.

How was far the condom from the scene? Did it have Hannah's DNA on it too? Which sample was tested against the headmans son? Both or just one?

My gut feeling is probably the same as most, it was the headmans son and friends and they have cleared him using one of the DNA samples his friend left behind.

Edited to be more clear.

If I remember reports correctly there was no dna evidence in the condom and a spot of Hannah's blood on the outside. With regards to Hannah there were 2 different specimens internally and a third different one externally (as stated by police / forensics in a press conference conducted in Thai last year). That's a total of 3 by the way for starters, not 2.

[rockingrobin]

At first I read that there was DNA evidence inside her body. Now I read that the evidence was in a condom.

Forgive me, but ...was the condom in her body or was that in addition to the DNA in her body? Two samples or one? Either way, I can't see why they would be cautious of leaving DNA and then on the other hand be so reckless about it to either leave it behind in her or allow another to not use one.

How was far the condom from the scene? Did it have Hannah's DNA on it too? Which sample was tested against the headmans son? Both or just one?

My gut feeling is probably the same as most, it was the headmans son and friends and they have cleared him using one of the DNA samples his friend left behind.

Edited to be more clear.

If I remember reports correctly there was no dna evidence in the condom and a spot of Hannah's blood on the outside. With regards to Hannah there were 2 different specimens internally and a third different one externally (as stated by police / forensics in a press conference conducted in Thai last year). That's a total of 3 by the way for starters, not 2.

Yes the report of the 3rd dna on Hannahs breast , now that report is no longer to be found

However the Condom , blood or dna , I have seen a photo of a condom with a speck of blood present , but it is the terminology used that fascinates me

Blood or dna being present has 2 different meanings, now if blood of a person is found then it is usually described as person A blood was found

If dna is present this would signify cells or tissue

[ktdiver]

Not sure if these young boys are guilty or not but admittedly believe they are scapegoats. In any caes at this pont I wouldn't trust the DNA without first carefully investigating the chain of custody. The old switcharoo is a distinct possibility when considering the players in this debacle.

[Zeberdee]

I find it hard to believe there were no witnesses (particularly farang) to the supposed argument in AC Bar (that are willing to come forward anyway

[Zeberdee]

They can re-test the dna samples all they want, they have had 10 months to have their way with it, unfortunately i feel it will always come up positive for the B2.

i don't post on here much but this case absolutely boils my piss.

[smedly]

Comparisons for the running man and village headman's son

the sideburns give it away as far as I can see - a perfect match

[Zeberdee]

Wasn't there a fisherman asleep on his boat offshore from Koh Tao, that got woken up early morning by a couple of blokes on a speedboat asking the quickest way to the mainland?

Where is he now?

[smedly]

out to you General Payuth Chan (O) Cha - you really need to take a very big interest in this case as the damage to Thailand will be far reaching - something is very wrong with this case and if you want international credit pr even National credit then you need to get involved and start getting were it's at.....the truth, and hold those people who tried to distort justice accountable, show everyone that Thailand is turning a corner and will no longer tolerate these Mafia heads who ruin tourism with their greed and lies and MURDER

[Lozza]

Comparisons for the running man and village headman's son

the sideburns give it away as far as I can see - a perfect match

hence the haircut

[Lozza]

Wasn't there a fisherman asleep on his boat offshore from Koh Tao, that got woken up early morning by a couple of blokes on a speedboat asking the quickest way to the mainland?

Where is he now?

no idea where he is, but they asked for directions to Chumpon?

[Zeberdee]

I'm pretty sure the the Brits would have taken dna samples from Hanna, it's the only way to sort this whole charade, but i feel the court won't accept that as evidence.

[Zeberdee]

Wasn't there a fisherman asleep on his boat offshore from Koh Tao, that got woken up early morning by a couple of blokes on a speedboat asking the quickest way to the mainland?

Where is he now?

no idea where he is, but they asked for directions to Chumpon?

Don't think Chumpon was mentioned, I read it in one of the first threads in the few days after it happened.

[catsanddogs]

Retesting the DNA over again??? Hmmm...that would be the right thing to do....as long as the whole affair is not corrupted once again, like it was in the first place. Just saying. Cheers

It's interesting that the B2 and the defense are eager to get all the DNA re-examined. That's not the action of people who are hiding things. In contrast, Nomsod hid from police for several days - while he knew police were looking for him as being a prime suspect - early in the investigation. And when he was found, he refused to offer any sample for DNA testing. A while later, there was the press corps event where NS's DNA was tested. His dad, his lawyer, the police chief were all there. No one doubted what the result would be in such an orchestrated scene.

Now fastforward to the present. The same Chief of Police is being asked to provide DNA. Would you trust the veracity of those samples? ....particularly the samples he passes to the new examiners labeled "DNA taken from Hannah" ? If so, you're a lot more trusting in the integrity of the RTP than I am.

That's why justice needs the British coroner to step out from the shadows.

What is there for the British coroner to be afraid of? Why doesn't she publish what she knows when it could help the victims families avoid more pain and anguish? I just don't get it.

[JLCrab]

LOL Crab.

Again IATA keeps records of all passengers on all flights if the airline has any international destinations.

Access to the data is easy. How do you think Yingluck's flight data got out

Awesome. If it's so easy will you be posting the information later.

If you can't be bothered feel free to send me the process and I will post it so we can nullify those pesky Conspiracy theorists.

hopefully the defense team has this information ....

The defense will not have this information because -- according to persons on this topic -- if such flight manifest information ever existed it has long been expunged.

BTW this would be a good argument that someone was on the island on a specific date: "I saw him that night there on the island."

[smedly]

mirror mirror on the wall who is the most powerful of them all, well it seems that the Koh Tao Headman mafia boss is da man even more powerful than the PM, time for a 44 intervention in this case, it is way more important than a few students being childish in Bangkok, Mr Chan (O) Cha you need to take a real hard look at this debacle - Thailand National reputation is on the line, is the local mafia and those connected including relatives really that important, time to reel in a few of the locals and get to the truth of this matter, start busting balls

[loonodingle]

I very rarely post these days due to lack of time but I seem to remember something on this forum in the early days about the Hoe not being the murder weapon and was used after the event to remove "evidence" from the body. It would be interesting to know if the original suspect had a licenced (or otherwise ) firearm. Possibly the post mortem in the UK found some evidence of this. Just my two setang's worth.

This is my thought as well. And they will not let on before they bring it up in court. In the mean time the police and forensic officers are gong to dig themselves a very deep hole and the defence lawyers is herding them all in to it.

BANG!!! Get yourselves out of that then.

Just a theory.... but it could be....true I have no inside knowledge...

[loonodingle]

I find it hard to believe there were no witnesses (particularly farang) to the supposed argument in AC Bar (that are willing to come forward anyway

Fear is an amazing thing. Combine that with the horrific pictures of the victims and then ask yourself why everybody is saving their own skin. Its not rocket science. If you spoke then you would have to leave Thailand. Remember Sean Mcanna.. Same injurys calls to Sky news fled the island with a handshake from the new police chief and a oneway ticket to Milan. Fear my friend Fear.

[loonodingle]

At first I read that there was DNA evidence inside her body. Now I read that the evidence was in a condom.

Forgive me, but ...was the condom in her body or was that in addition to the DNA in her body? Two samples or one? Either way, I can't see why they would be cautious of leaving DNA and then on the other hand be so reckless about it to either leave it behind in her or allow another to not use one.

How was far the condom from the scene? Did it have Hannah's DNA on it too? Which sample was tested against the headmans son? Both or just one?

My gut feeling is probably the same as most, it was the headmans son and friends and they have cleared him using one of the DNA samples his friend left behind.

Edited to be more clear.

If I remember reports correctly there was no dna evidence in the condom and a spot of Hannah's blood on the outside. With regards to Hannah there were 2 different specimens internally and a third different one externally (as stated by police / forensics in a press conference conducted in Thai last year). That's a total of 3 by the way for starters, not 2.

Sunday Times

Michael Sainsbury, Koh Samui, Thailand Published: 28 June 2015

The defence theory is that the hoe was used to hide gunshot wounds and the bodies were arranged to disguise what had actually occurred. A photo taken of Witheridge as she lay dead on the beach that has been obtained by The Sunday Times appears to show shrapnel wounds to her face.

If this turns out to be true then then RTP Farce case is in tatters..

You will note not a single defence spokesperson has come forward to deny this suggestion......... So this is the smoking gun (excuse the terrible Pun) in the case. Evidence of a shooting then covered up by the Hoe.

[JLCrab]

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/hannah_witheridge_inquest_opens_as_police_search_for_three_people_believed_to_be_involved_in_her_murder_1_3790331

01 OCT 2014

Speaking at the inquest, senior coroner Jacqueline Lake said Miss Witheridge had been indentified using DNA taken from her parents - Tony and Susan Witheridge.

Post-mortem examinations revealed that Ms Witheridge died from “severe head wounds”.

[loonodingle]

This crime was committed by at least 3 perps as early stories implied.

Remember 3 sets of DNA. I would guess a couple more.

Time for a flashback

http://www.newslocker.com/en-uk/news/uk_news/thai-police-investigating-murder-of-david-miller-and-hannah-witheridge-hunt-for-3-men/view/

[Nigeone]

Sadly , despite the obvious RTA attempts to pervert the course of justice from day one ,which despite the prosecution apologists on here , is quite clear and obvious to any person with a semblance of intelligence I fear the B2 are going to be found guilty..There is no way that should happen as the investigation has been compromised ever since the first RTP guy was removed and the great leader who must be obeyed opened his mouth. This is something right to the end I will hope and pray doesn't happen but to be honest the Thai police and court system is as rotten as it could be. I feel so sorry and my heart goes out to the family and parents of Hannah and David as they are having to relive what's been a nightmare for them and have now to listen to the court evidence and witnesses for the prosecution. They as I have said before are going to be intelligent people and despite there wishes to see justice served God knows what there thinking now after the last 3 days. It's quite clear the Thai authorities have no perception of how serious this all is and clearly are not used to been challenged with their form of Justice!!.

But just as this is a cover up of epic proportions and lies are getting worse by the day they are digging them selves into a almighty hole..In a society that survives on money and corruption one day somebody will squeal and bring the house crashing down..I'm sure it's going to happen..if the government and RTP are having a tough time at the moment they haven't seen nothing yet..Thailand is getting incredible bad press but when the UK media get there claws into something they don't let go..The Sunday Papers will be working on this at is moment as the magnitude of a story that could actually bring a country down is one hell of story...watch this space I feel..but just to reiterate !! I so want justice to be done now , the head mans son and his cronies and the RTP and everyone involved in this stich up to get what they deserve and the B2 to be able to go back to there country to a happy safe life...

[loonodingle]

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/hannah_witheridge_inquest_opens_as_police_search_for_three_people_believed_to_be_involved_in_her_murder_1_3790331

01 OCT 2014

Speaking at the inquest, senior coroner Jacqueline Lake said Miss Witheridge had been indentified using DNA taken from her parents - Tony and Susan Witheridge.

Post-mortem examinations revealed that Ms Witheridge died from “severe head wounds”.

Correct Crabby...

No mention of what caused them and they will not until the inquest is formally in session.

However the coroners officer will have disclosed the results of the forensics to the defence as they are an interested party. So this doesn't come from the Police or the FCO but the coroner. And now defence getting a UK expert to travel to give evidence about the autopsy results.

I say watch this space my friend watch this space.

[JLCrab]

Yes -- however GSW and BFT seem to be standard coroner preliminary observations.

[loonodingle]

Yes -- however GSW and BFT seem to be standard coroner preliminary observations.

Perhaps the full results hadn't been released as that was the initial opening hearing. Its just a formality Same as the one in January which I attended. Just box ticking really. The Coroner doesn't carry out the Autopsy either and the statement was released by the head coroner on the circuit. I dont think they would have disclosed GSW in this hearing until further detailed investigations had taken place.

[loonodingle]

Yes -- however GSW and BFT seem to be standard coroner preliminary observations.

Actually Crabby I think that description is from the Thai coroner not the UK coroner as its dated 1st October. The DNA check and confirmation would have been from samples sent possibly? its to short a time from the tragedy to this report for a UK autopsy report I think.