Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[GOLDBUGGY]

The amount of people stating about DNA tests done by RTP are missing the point. Let's clear this up! The RTP stated that they had there DNA tested and it didn't match...And we all believe whatever the RTP say don't we.. They also said that DNA samples went to Singapore and that's been discounted now. They also said they couldn't do DNA test for a week as they needed to go to Bangkok. They then tested Nomsad and cleared him in 24 hours . No there liars and not very good ones at that. Plain to see!!

That Sir is a Farce!

As pointed out here several times in the past, and only if you would read this, the Police only play a small part in Forensics Evidence. There are several steps and procedures that must be followed and verified, before DNA can be validated and considered evidence. This can involve several other people in a Crime Lab, and Prosecution, and thus it is not just one Policeman's Word.

If you recall, which you probably don't as you probably never read this either, that when 1 of the accused was picked up on the main land, (Win I think) the Police requested that his DNA be tested as soon as possible, and the first results came in less than a day proving Positive. Or as reported by the Media anyway. In other words instead of waiting for all the other 200 samples they collected from the Island to be tested, they put this at the top of the list.

Since you seem to claim you know so much about DNA Testing Times, how long does it take to preform a DNA Test? .

[BritTim]

So even if everything you have said about this CCTV is true, and I am not saying it is, then what have you proved? That he was on an Island along with 2,000 other people on the night of the rapes and murders? That he lied to the press? Which for all you know if he did he may have had a good reason to, as maybe he did not want his girlfriend to find out he was there that weekend. Have you ever lied to your Wife or Girlfriend? Does this make you a rapist and murderer?

You have no proof he was on the island and what he told the Police as you were not there. What we all know for sure is Nomsod went in for DNA Testing and he was cleared of all suspicion based on the fact it did not match with the DNA they got from Hannah. The same way which cleared many other Migrant Workers who were tested, and other suspects of this crime, including a Fast Boat Operator, a Football Team, and his Uncle and Father.

How many times here have I heard that money talks in Thailand? Nomsod was a Rich Kid! Do you think having all this money he could not find a date? That he could not afford to pay for it with a Russian Woman, and many others like this in Bangkok, if he wanted to? Personally I think 2 men who may not have had sex in over a year, as they may not have had girlfriends on the Island, have more of a motive to have forced sex with a women, then a Rich Kid who can get that anywhere.

I take no position on whether Nomsod was on the island at the time of the murder. I do not trust the evidence produced to support either side. On the CCTV, I tried only to fairly present what I think are both sides of the argument. Most people will believe what they want to believe. I have an open mind, though I am skeptical about the incorrect furniture argument.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Nomsod volunteered to give his DNA for testing to clear this conspiracy theory on social media against him. His DNA did not match the sperm samples collected from Hannah or any at the crime scene.

This means he did not do it regardless if he was on the Island or not or in his dorm or not. His DNA cleared him of any wrong doing. Finish! End of Story! No need to waste further Tax Payers Money on further investigation base on some Conspiracy Theory.

[BritTim]

Would you agree that it's odd that if they had cctv from early hours of 15th then why did the lawyer not show that as proof rather than the later time (9.30am) which did not fully clear his client? or have I misunderstood and the earlier hours didn't show him.

And why is it 'strong' evidence that he is in the clear if it is feasible to travel to the location of that cctv within the required timeframe?

Again, I'm not pointing the finger here - just wanting to understand how this is this is considered a valid, unquestionable alibi

The lawyer showed a CCTV still of Nomsod purportedly leaving his room at around 9:00 am. Journalists were subsequently allowed to view full CCTV which, if genuine, shows he did not enter or leave his room between 2:00 am and when he left. It may be fake, but it is pretty strong exoneration if genuine. I do not think Nomsod scaled the outside of the building at 7:00 am in the morning to get to hos room while avoiding CCTV cameras.

are we talking about the lobby still at 9:16am here?

The lobby still you refer to was taken from the full CCTV footage. Thai PBS examined the full footage from all cameras, including the one on Nomsod's floor, the one in the lift and the one in the lobby from about 2:00 am until Nomsod was seen leaving after 9:00 am. None of the presented recordings showed Nomsod entering. As I mentioned, this could conceivably all have been faked, but is pretty definitive if the CCTV recordings are genuine.

[bunglebag]

Forget the CCTV images for now - is there actual witness proof or other photographic proof that Nomsod (Freshmilk) was on the island at the time?

As has been reported in the news there is zero credible evidence that has been reported that shows he was on the island and whole bunch to show he was not but don't let that prevent the theorists from coming up with scenarios where he was on the island and then further make up reasons why he would have committed these crimes all to get to their real issue which is they are angry that they believe the headsman carries a lot of weight on the island. Would almost seem the anger is coming from insecurity and jealousy when looking at this case and there be absolutely nothing to indicate his son had any involvement in the crime and some are going to the most outrageous and laughable speculation, theories and conspiracies to pin it on him even if it means the actual murdering rapists go free.

No news agency reported that I used the toilet today, however I did three times thus far....... Unless you are Nomsod's personal assistant and are with him 24-7/365, you have no credible evidence that he WASN'T there.

With this logic, since there is no proof you have took a dump today, it would mean you are full of it.

However in this kid;s case there is not only absolutely nothing offered to show he was on the island, let alone involved but numerous things to confirm he wasn't.

I think we have gone full circle here.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

This is what chaps my ass about CCTV in Thailand: It is successfully used to identify a robber with a ski mask or motorcycle helmet robbing a 7 Come Eleven; A speeding car, truck, motorcycle or Tuk Tuk on the motorways. But unsuccessful when it came to Hannah and David.

[BritTim]

Nomsod volunteered to give his DNA for testing to clear this conspiracy theory on social media against him. His DNA did not match the sperm samples collected from Hannah or any at the crime scene.

This means he did not do it regardless if he was on the Island or not or in his dorm or not. His DNA cleared him of any wrong doing. Finish! End of Story! No need to waste further Tax Payers Money on further investigation base on some Conspiracy Theory.

Nomsod may well be innocent.

My trust in the DNA testing is approximately zero. This may change if the physical material from which the tests were done prove not to have disappeared into thin air after all, and confirm the original findings when retested.

Even if the DNA test results were genuine, Nomsod could still have been present. It would just be less likely that he participated in Hannah's rape.

[IslandLover]

I dunno, I zoomed in but it's still inconclusive in my eyes. I couldn't really see his birthmarks, just shadow i thought. Could be wrong.

So do i. But you also said 'very similar'! In a high profile murder case like this nobody should just ignore 'similarities' but investigate. Because the fact he left the island after the murder and returned when the 2B get arrested makes this photo more important and himself more suspicious. He is definitely on my list of suspects.

It could be this guy who co-incidentally was with the gang in the AC bar on 11th September 2014. He likes posing with blonde farang girls.

https://www.facebook.com/sun.thampachana?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all

Edited July 17, 2015 by IslandLover

[JohnThailandJohn]

how long does it take to preform a DNA Test? .

It depends on the type of DNA test. There is testing that is extremely quick (less than a couple hours). When it comes to police testing DNA, the vast majority of time is wasted in the collection, cataloging, transportation and back log at labs. There are commercial testing kits for paternity where they send you a kit and have the answer back to you within a day.

[bunglebag]

how long does it take to preform a DNA Test? .

It depends on the type of DNA test. There is testing that is extremely quick (less than a couple hours). When it comes to police testing DNA, the vast majority of time is wasted in the collection, cataloging, transportation and back log at labs. There are commercial testing kits for paternity where they send you a kit and have the answer back to you within a day.

Are you arguing with the chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science?

[JohnThailandJohn]

how long does it take to preform a DNA Test? .

It depends on the type of DNA test. There is testing that is extremely quick (less than a couple hours). When it comes to police testing DNA, the vast majority of time is wasted in the collection, cataloging, transportation and back log at labs. There are commercial testing kits for paternity where they send you a kit and have the answer back to you within a day.

Are you arguing with the chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science?

Nope. Is he posting here?

[bunglebag]

I dunno, I zoomed in but it's still inconclusive in my eyes. I couldn't really see his birthmarks, just shadow i thought. Could be wrong.

So do i. But you also said 'very similar'! In a high profile murder case like this nobody should just ignore 'similarities' but investigate. Because the fact he left the island after the murder and returned when the 2B get arrested makes this photo more important and himself more suspicious. He is definitely on my list of suspects.

It could be this guy who co-incidentally was with the gang in the AC bar on 11th September 2014

https://www.facebook.com/sun.thampachana?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all

I wondered that initially, maybe due to the cheeks, but looking closer I thought the teeth for one don't look the same (to me) so personally I erred on the side of it not being him.

edited: had another look now though and yes very similar

Edited July 17, 2015 by bunglebag

[bunglebag]

how long does it take to preform a DNA Test? .

It depends on the type of DNA test. There is testing that is extremely quick (less than a couple hours). When it comes to police testing DNA, the vast majority of time is wasted in the collection, cataloging, transportation and back log at labs. There are commercial testing kits for paternity where they send you a kit and have the answer back to you within a day.

Are you arguing with the chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science?

Nope. Is he posting here?

He said each sample takes at least 48 hours to complete

[GOLDBUGGY]

Exactly John. In the past I tried to tell them that Nomsod was cleared because he had a good alibi, but that got me nowhere except a bunch of name calling.

The Police indeed did look into this claim of them being suspects to the point they hauled in this Headman of this village and his younger brother Mon in for questioning. Both were questioned for 5 hours and Mon had his DNA Sample taken to be tested, ( not sure about the Headman) which again tested Negative. Thus dropped as suspects. Just like everyone else up to this point that tested Negative.

[JohnThailandJohn]

It depends on the type of DNA test. There is testing that is extremely quick (less than a couple hours). When it comes to police testing DNA, the vast majority of time is wasted in the collection, cataloging, transportation and back log at labs. There are commercial testing kits for paternity where they send you a kit and have the answer back to you within a day.

Are you arguing with the chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science?

Nope. Is he posting here?

He said each sample takes at least 48 hours to complete

I have no idea what the process is or what type of test he is talking about or what time is being included in the 48 hours but assume he was speaking about processing times back when they were collecting hundreds of samples and sending them to Bangkok. The fact remains, and is easily verified doing a google search, that DNA can be run very quickly. On the other hand DNA results can take an extremely long time depending on the type of DNA testing being done. I assume you also don't know what tests were initially run on the suspects or even where they were carried out or if they created a lab to test closer to the island or sent the initial samples from the suspects to a closer lab. My answer was a generic answer to how long DNA processing takes, not how long it took for any specific suspect in this case.

Edited July 17, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[bunglebag]

Are you arguing with the chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science?

Nope. Is he posting here?

He said each sample takes at least 48 hours to complete

I have no idea what the process is or what type of test he is talking about or what time is being included in the 48 hours but assume he was speaking about processing times back when they were collecting hundreds of samples and sending them to Bangkok. The fact remains, and is easily verified doing a google search, that DNA can be run very quickly. On the other hand DNA results can take an extremely long time depending on the type of DNA testing being done. I assume you also don't know what tests were initially run on the suspects or even where they were carried out or if they created a lab to test closer to the island or sent the initial samples from the suspects to a closer lab. My answer was a generic answer to how long DNA processing takes, not how long it took for any specific suspect in this case.

You can be more generic if you choose, and I'm fairly sure you will. I was just providing the info that came straight from the horse's mouth, specific to dna testing in this case.

[bunglebag]

I dunno, I zoomed in but it's still inconclusive in my eyes. I couldn't really see his birthmarks, just shadow i thought. Could be wrong.

So do i. But you also said 'very similar'! In a high profile murder case like this nobody should just ignore 'similarities' but investigate. Because the fact he left the island after the murder and returned when the 2B get arrested makes this photo more important and himself more suspicious. He is definitely on my list of suspects.

It could be this guy who co-incidentally was with the gang in the AC bar on 11th September 2014

https://www.facebook.com/sun.thampachana?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all

I wondered that initially, maybe due to the cheeks, but looking closer I thought the teeth for one don't look the same (to me) so personally I erred on the side of it not being him.

edited: had another look now though and yes very similar

Can anyone identify the bar in the pub crawl picture?

[happy Joe]

Nomsod volunteered to give his DNA for testing to clear this conspiracy theory on social media against him. His DNA did not match the sperm samples collected from Hannah or any at the crime scene.

This means he did not do it regardless if he was on the Island or not or in his dorm or not. His DNA cleared him of any wrong doing. Finish! End of Story! No need to waste further Tax Payers Money on further investigation base on some Conspiracy Theory.

Overall agree with your conclusions.

The problem is still the fact that this young man refused to submit the test pretext that he was not on the island at crime hour. Worse, he let his lawyer publicly perform the declaration of refusal for him.

This arrogant attitude above the laws made it a perfect guilty for supporters of the conspiracy.

Since he tried to walk back but it was too late for our sofa detectives. They caught this bone to relieve their boredom and they will don't let go. No matter for them as irrefutable evidence including dna 2 Burmese correspondence. They cling to the Namsod guilty version and they will deny any other conclusion even if the trial gives them wrong.

Most important to them is that they can continue to relieve their boredom.

Personally I see this thread to finally understand how urban legend was born.

[StealthEnergiser]

This Septic Isle: Backpackers, Bloodshed and the Secretive World of Koh Tao

he death-penalty case has caused an international sensation

MORE Thailand is Suffering From The Worst Drought in DecadesAustralian Editor and Thai Colleague Appear in Court Accused of Defaming the Thai NavyAurora Theater Trial: James Holmes Found Guilty of Murder NBC News'Miracle' Teen Speaks Out on Surviving Plane Crash NBC NewsObama Vows Thorough Probe Into Chattanooga Rampage NBC News

The balcony of room A5 at Ocean View Bungalows commands one of the finest vistas of Koh Tao’s sweeping Sairee Beach. Traditional longtail boats, a rainbow of scarves adorning their bows, bob on the lapping water of the glistening bay. And right in the foreground, rising proudly from sliver sands, protrude a scattering of granite boulders, a furtive relic of this tranquil 21-sq-km (8 sq. mi.) island’s volcanic inception.

These rocks are no strangers to explosive secrets. On Sept. 15, one of the occupants of that same room A5, Hannah Witheridge, was found bludgeoned to death in their midst alongside fellow British tourist David Miller, just a short stumble from her door. Witheridge, 23, from Great Yarmouth, a seaside town on the English east coast, had been raped and killed by blows to the head. Miller, a year older and from Jersey, one of the U.K.’s Channel Islands, had likewise suffered deep lacerations to his skull before drowning in the shallow surf.

A mute Burmese beach cleaner stumbled upon the bodies shortly after dawn. A garden hoe and wooden club found nearby were quickly fingered as the principal murder weapons.

http://time.com/3955081/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-zaw-lin-wai-phyo-burma-myanmar/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+time%2Ftopstories+%28TIME%3A+Top+Stories%29

Edited July 17, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[smedly]

The proper way it should be handled - clearly not the case here - taken from http://www.americanbar.org/publications/criminal_justice_section_archive/crimjust_standards_dnaevidence.html#2.6

other western countries are similar - and yes I know maybe not applicable to Thailand but I have never read anywhere that Thailand is any different - the forensic lab should be well aware of procedures - so should prosecutors and defence council

extract - (d) and (e) are of particular interest

Standard 3.4 Consumptive testing

(a) When possible, a portion of the DNA evidence tested and, when possible, a portion of any extract from the DNA evidence should be preserved for further testing.

( A laboratory should not undertake testing that entirely consumes DNA evidence or the extract from it without the prior approval of the prosecutor if a law enforcement officer is requesting the testing, or of defense counsel if the testing is requested by defense counsel or defense counsel’s agent.

© Before approving a test that entirely consumes DNA evidence or the extract from it, the prosecutor should provide any defendant against whom an accusatorial instrument has been filed, or any suspect who has requested prior notice, an opportunity to object and move for an appropriate court order.

(d) Before approving a test that entirely consumes DNA evidence or the extract from it, the attorney for any defendant against whom an accusatorial instrument has been filed, or for any other person who intends to conduct such a test, should provide the prosecutor an opportunity to object and move for an appropriate court order.

(e) If a motion objecting to consumptive testing is filed, the court should consider ordering procedures that would permit an independent evaluation of the analysis, including but not limited to the presence of an expert representing the moving party during evidence preparation and testing, and videotaping or photographing the preparation and testing.

Edited July 17, 2015 by smedly

[Rykbanlor]

nomsod.jpg

It reads Nomsod Keedo.

His other name is Do (Doh) or Dodo - sounds a lot like Keedo, don't you think?

Nomsod DEEDO is the other name - I think, in that picture it was a misspelling K-Kwai instead of D-DEk. Might have been on purpose, because Keedo could potentially mean big shit

[PaPiPuPePo]

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?

I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

this one

Watching these two videos again, I see something very interesting: notice how his right arm swings from the shoulder, but the left arm bends at the elbow as he swings it, in both videos. He seems to have something going on with his left arm--other photos show him holding his left arm up against his body.

What are the chances that two similar-looking people have this same odd thing going on with how they move their arms when walking? One in a million?

[minikev]

JTJ, Balo, Goldbuggy,Sviss Geez. Do you have an opinion on this?

If David was laid with Hannah when he was struck on the head with the blunt end of a Thai garden Hoe would some of his blood splashed onto Hannah's body? If you are in agreement that that is more than possible and very probable. Why was there no DNA from David discovered on Hannah's body.

I apologies to the family for asking in such a graphic way but I feel strongly that if theses murders were carried out in the way they are described by the prosecution there would have to have been DNA evidence and feel sure the prosecution would have shown this.

If he was , its impossible for us to know the facts here. You're guess is as good as mine.

I haven't seen a police report or lab report or heard court testimony that said none of David's DNA was found on Hannah.

I have also not seen a police report or lab report or heard court testimony that says David was killed while on top of Hannah, running away or while skinning dipping or a plethora of other possible positions.

If If why why question for those not involved are a game (lets play internet detective) and doesn't yield any answers except for those who believe they can derive facts in the case that are based on things they don't know or have not been shared publicly.

According to Thai police the Burmese men found Witheridge, 23, and Miller, 24, embracing on a beach. Police claim that the accused struck Miller on the head, leaving him to drown in the surf, before raping and killing Witheridge. Postmortems showed Witheridge died from head injuries, while Miller died from blows to the head and drowning.http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/24/burmese-men-koh-tao-murders-confessed-death-threats-thai-police-torture-claims

If you don't believe this report by the guardian perhaps you could use a simpler method and LOOK at the pictures from the crime scene re-enactment

I'm still looking back at old reports and interviews to confirm what DNA was found on Hannah up to now I have only found that there was DNA from the B2 I'll get back to you.

[Rykbanlor]

I dunno, I zoomed in but it's still inconclusive in my eyes. I couldn't really see his birthmarks, just shadow i thought. Could be wrong.

So do i. But you also said 'very similar'! In a high profile murder case like this nobody should just ignore 'similarities' but investigate. Because the fact he left the island after the murder and returned when the 2B get arrested makes this photo more important and himself more suspicious. He is definitely on my list of suspects.

It could be this guy who co-incidentally was with the gang in the AC bar on 11th September 2014. He likes posing with blonde farang girls.

https://www.facebook.com/sun.thampachana?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all

Cheers Island lover, well spotte, I do believe that looks more like the guy in the pub crawl pic.

[IslandLover]

I dunno, I zoomed in but it's still inconclusive in my eyes. I couldn't really see his birthmarks, just shadow i thought. Could be wrong.

So do i. But you also said 'very similar'! In a high profile murder case like this nobody should just ignore 'similarities' but investigate. Because the fact he left the island after the murder and returned when the 2B get arrested makes this photo more important and himself more suspicious. He is definitely on my list of suspects.

It could be this guy who co-incidentally was with the gang in the AC bar on 11th September 2014

https://www.facebook.com/sun.thampachana?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all

I wondered that initially, maybe due to the cheeks, but looking closer I thought the teeth for one don't look the same (to me) so personally I erred on the side of it not being him.

edited: had another look now though and yes very similar

It would appear he's really into the bar scene on KT and likes posing with blond farang girls.

[IslandLover]

nomsod.jpg

It reads Nomsod Keedo.

His other name is Do (Doh) or Dodo - sounds a lot like Keedo, don't you think?

Nomsod DEEDO is the other name - I think, in that picture it was a misspelling K-Kwai instead of D-DEk. Might have been on purpose, because Keedo could potentially mean big shit

How very apt

[minikev]

nomsod.jpg

It reads Nomsod Keedo.

His other name is Do (Doh) or Dodo - sounds a lot like Keedo, don't you think?

Nomsod DEEDO is the other name - I think, in that picture it was a misspelling K-Kwai instead of D-DEk. Might have been on purpose, because Keedo could potentially mean big shit

It can also be pronounced kiddo but I don't know if such nicknames are used here. Personally I don't really agree in chasing down this person without enough evidence. I first think the defence of the B2. The police hopefully will go back and start from the beginning and then the evidence will lead them to wherever it leads them. I do think there was evidence that went unnoticed.

[thailandchilli]

Nomsod volunteered to give his DNA for testing to clear this conspiracy theory on social media against him. His DNA did not match the sperm samples collected from Hannah or any at the crime scene.

This means he did not do it regardless if he was on the Island or not or in his dorm or not. His DNA cleared him of any wrong doing. Finish! End of Story! No need to waste further Tax Payers Money on further investigation base on some Conspiracy Theory.

Overall agree with your conclusions.

The problem is still the fact that this young man refused to submit the test pretext that he was not on the island at crime hour. Worse, he let his lawyer publicly perform the declaration of refusal for him.

This arrogant attitude above the laws made it a perfect guilty for supporters of the conspiracy.

Since he tried to walk back but it was too late for our sofa detectives. They caught this bone to relieve their boredom and they will don't let go. No matter for them as irrefutable evidence including dna 2 Burmese correspondence. They cling to the Namsod guilty version and they will deny any other conclusion even if the trial gives them wrong.

Most important to them is that they can continue to relieve their boredom.

Personally I see this thread to finally understand how urban legend was born.

The statement you made No matter for them as irrefutable evidence including dna 2 Burmese correspondence makes the rest of your post irrelevant.

Edited July 17, 2015 by thailandchilli

[Rykbanlor]

GOLDBUGGY,

Nobody is claiming that the DNA test result rests on one Policemans word. Yes it has to go to a lab and pass many people.

It's the people who collected the samples and sent them. There was no forensic pathologist at the crime scene. WHatever reached the lab to be sampled has to be taken at face value, and THAT rests on the word of the people who collected it.

Also, about a week before the B2 were arrested EVERYONE on the island, including those 2 (photographs of them in line to be tested are old news) were tested and declared clear. So why did they turn up a match the second time???

What is not clear about this discrepancy??

[Rykbanlor]

JTJ,

Your earlier post claims that there was no suggestion that they were embracing or lying down, when, as Minikev I think pointed out, that is EXACTLY what the police suggested, as shown in their crime scene re-enactment.

So, maybe you need to re-assess what you're saying. Maybe you don't know all the details that well.

As for referring to the fact that people want it to be this headman's family for some emotional reasons or out of jealousy, why?

I don't know those people from Adam, never heard of them before this.

To stick away from grey area and forget him and his family or any people linked to them for a moment, some of the points made over the last few posts casts serious doubt on the defendants involvement,