Overstay more than a year

[gemguy]

He could have gone to the Airport and dealt with the immigration officers at the airport.

More than likely ( in other words not 100 % guaranteed ) they would have fined him 20,000 baht ( the maximum fine ) and stamped his passport with the same overstay stamp and he would be on his way.

In the original post he says he paid 5000 baht and he was held by immigration for 1 week.

If that was the case he saved some money....lol

Cheers

[DinoSabanovic]

I have one question.

With Non O visa multiple we have to do visa runs, pay for trip, visa for Laos/Cambodia/Malaysia...

Why they not give us option to give them that money and in exchange for another 90 days?

More money in Thailand + not wasted 1 whole day or even 2 days.

[gemguy]

I recently overstayed a year. My problem, was that I never had enough money at once, to pay the apartment I was living in (and, I would never run out on them without paying), plus the ticket, PLUS the overstay fee on top of it. I could have paid one of two of these at many points, but not all at once.

I finally departed - last month - through Sawanabhumi. They were not 'overjoyed' at my announcement; but were not nasty about it, either. There were a number of people paying overstays, at the same moment. I paid the fine.

And, like your friend, there is no big Red Stamp for it, or official blacklisting.

However, I asked the man if I can return someday; and he said 'Maybe! You overstay long time!' I think that while not 'official', the times have changed a little bit; not for sure one would come through easy again, if expecting a visa exemption the next time.

In other words, he's not 'blacklisted' - but it's likely that when he returns, they will look it up and see his record. If he is showing up, expecting to be let in again without a visa - I don't know, of course - he may have some problems.

It would be terrible to fly all the way to Thailand, and then not be allowed in.

This is the problem for anyone who overstays.

You now have a passport with a stamp in it that in effect says you violated the immigration laws of Thailand.

When you go to any Thai Embassy to apply for another visa of any kind then the consulate general may reject your visa application.

If you show up without a visa at the airport or border crossing and they see the overstay stamp then the immigration officer can, at his or her discretion, refuse entry into the country.

You are best to get yourself a new passport and start all over again.....but...you would think you are on file someway, some how as overstay ..even if you are traveling with a new passport.

If that filed information does not exist now you would think they will sooner or later have a way of recording and filing the identity of the "person" who over stayed, separate from the passport details so they could know???? it was you who overstayed before.....while you have a new passport.

Possibly???

Meantime overstaying has never been a big deal while the Thai authorities have not made a big issue out of it while they have been very sensible about the practice and breach of their laws and they have been very gracious in the way they handle the people violating their immigration laws....all things considered.

Cheers

[gemguy]

I have one question.

With Non O visa multiple we have to do visa runs, pay for trip, visa for Laos/Cambodia/Malaysia...

Why they not give us option to give them that money and in exchange for another 90 days?

More money in Thailand + not wasted 1 whole day or even 2 days.

If you have a "visa agent" and there are many....they can arrange that sort of thing for you...for a price of course

Cheers

[gemguy]

It really baffles me why anyone overstays unless it's medical or other mitigating circumstances....

Simple. Even though immigration make the rest of us jump through hoops every year to stay here legally they don't seem to care about overstayers and don't have a punishment or deterrent to prevent overstaying being a choice. It's ridiculous that someone overstaying 11 years pays the same 20k as someone overstaying 6 weeks!

Whatever happened to the penalties that were proposed some time back whereby a longer term over-stayer would receive a ban from entering the country based on the length of overstay?

You can surmise that too many people disagreed with the new measures and or more or less did not cooperate with the whole concept.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe they new rules and regulations and laws and the penalties were never signed into effect as it takes an act of parliament to make the new laws legitimate and to be enforced.

I think the police officials and or anyone else who originally initiated the new measures and tried to have them passed by parliament found themselves confronted by a lot of opposition and or they became too busy with more important matters....such as ducking for cover in the crack downs on corruption....lol

Cheers

[Guest]

It really baffles me why anyone overstays unless it's medical or other mitigating circumstances....

What baffles me is the inverse.

i have tha absolute luxury of a retirement visa, and always have.

What I do not get is how people can stay for years, and jump through hoop after hoop. How much DOES all that in and out add up to?

Pull out a calculator. 20,000 maximum fine is cheap, if you stay long enough!

The trick is, it is .. as is so many things in life .. all about your attitude the day you confront the problem. I mean, we have Gilo .... as he posted .. overstay 11 Years , pay the 20,000, and turn right back around and come to the kingdom.

He is a math genius!

If it can be pulled off, fair enough, I take my hat off. Today we saw Hoteliers warned about reporting their guests within 24 hours, there have been recent spotchecks of foreigners at some sleepy beach towns & you need your passport for anything involving the cops/ hospitals/ bank/ schools even a wat won't take you in as a foreigner unless you have a valid visa.

I guess for most people the inconvenience of doing short weekends around S/E Asia and getting some Thainess respite is actually an added benefit to having your options open, rather than a hindrance. For those that don't want or need any of the above, they can take their chances. 11 years is quite remarkable.

Thank you, good stuff.

I am not advocating over stay, or saying it is "the way to go" The best point several people have made is the life of "looking over the shoulder."

I am sorry, I have five years in Thailand, and no bank, hospital etc.... has ever looked at my Visa. and since I have never been arrested, no police either.

Inside cover of passport ... yes. Visa, no (And I have two different Thailand banks I deal with.)

The ONLY time my passport leaves its lock box is for travel or to interface with the government (get driver license)

if people would spend less time trying to prove me wrong all the time and LISTEN for a change, OMG, they might learn something. (Coulson, this is not directed at you)

(1) Make a high quality scan of the inside cover of passport

(2) Make high quality scan of visa (most of us have one, if you don't, pick another page to scan.

(3) Go to a print shop, and have them print these images on the highest quality gloss paper.

(4) Put it all front to back (If they are clever, they will print it front / back so they can just fold and trim it)

(5) Laminate it to a credit card size for daily use, and one twice that size when you really want something "official" (MBK - 150 Baht for SIX cards)

The result is startling. It looks BETTER and more official than a government issued document.

Now remember, never claim it is a government document, that is forgery then .. but to get in and out of office buildings, ID at the hospital, and YES .. at the front desk ... theses WORK..

Why? The 300 baht per day clerk taking this information is NOT Immigration, all they need is the information presented in a way that is obviously your picture and numbers.

5 years ... 100 % results. (Note, I still HAVE the passport with me when I travel .. since I need to get through the airport, and in case the Hotel does not accept my "Card" .. but the last time I checked, front desk clerks are not looking for an argument with a Farang guest)

And of the hundred times I have used it, you all know the next sentence, 99% of that, they NEVER REALLY LOOKED AT IT. It was official looking, has my picture, and looks like it just came from the American embassy.

Would love to scan it and show you all .. 555 ... not today. :-)

[NoshowJones]

This is not an official line its just what I am thinking now

They have a set of visa rules and most of us follow those rules. But there are some that do not and still go out and come back

It may be that the powers to be feel that they just want the money and don't really care about the abusers since they know they will get them when they go and then again

when they come back and spend more of their money

They want the money its that simple

Then why not make it easier for tourists and expats to visit or stay in Thailand instead of making them jump through these hoops?

About illegal workers, so why not have such stiff penalties that people would be frightened to work here illegally. or employ them?

[NoshowJones]

I have one question.

With Non O visa multiple we have to do visa runs, pay for trip, visa for Laos/Cambodia/Malaysia...

Why they not give us option to give them that money and in exchange for another 90 days?

More money in Thailand + not wasted 1 whole day or even 2 days.

Because that's too sensible and this is Thailand.

[NoshowJones]

I have one question.

With Non O visa multiple we have to do visa runs, pay for trip, visa for Laos/Cambodia/Malaysia...

Why they not give us option to give them that money and in exchange for another 90 days?

More money in Thailand + not wasted 1 whole day or even 2 days.

If you have a "visa agent" and there are many....they can arrange that sort of thing for you...for a price of course

Cheers

Yeah, what price? If I go to Maesot, it would cost me about 450Bt fuel for motorbike, 600Bt for one night in hotel, 500Bt to Myanmar Immigration.

How much would it cost me for a "visa agent'?

[coulson]

It really baffles me why anyone overstays unless it's medical or other mitigating circumstances....

What baffles me is the inverse.

i have tha absolute luxury of a retirement visa, and always have.

What I do not get is how people can stay for years, and jump through hoop after hoop. How much DOES all that in and out add up to?

Pull out a calculator. 20,000 maximum fine is cheap, if you stay long enough!

The trick is, it is .. as is so many things in life .. all about your attitude the day you confront the problem. I mean, we have Gilo .... as he posted .. overstay 11 Years , pay the 20,000, and turn right back around and come to the kingdom.

He is a math genius!

If it can be pulled off, fair enough, I take my hat off. Today we saw Hoteliers warned about reporting their guests within 24 hours, there have been recent spotchecks of foreigners at some sleepy beach towns & you need your passport for anything involving the cops/ hospitals/ bank/ schools even a wat won't take you in as a foreigner unless you have a valid visa.

I guess for most people the inconvenience of doing short weekends around S/E Asia and getting some Thainess respite is actually an added benefit to having your options open, rather than a hindrance. For those that don't want or need any of the above, they can take their chances. 11 years is quite remarkable.

Thank you, good stuff.

I am not advocating over stay, or saying it is "the way to go" The best point several people have made is the life of "looking over the shoulder."

I am sorry, I have five years in Thailand, and no bank, hospital etc.... has ever looked at my Visa. and since I have never been arrested, no police either.

Inside cover of passport ... yes. Visa, no (And I have two different Thailand banks I deal with.)

The ONLY time my passport leaves its lock box is for travel or to interface with the government (get driver license)

if people would spend less time trying to prove me wrong all the time and LISTEN for a change, OMG, they might learn something. (Coulson, this is not directed at you)

(1) Make a high quality scan of the inside cover of passport

(2) Make high quality scan of visa (most of us have one, if you don't, pick another page to scan.

(3) Go to a print shop, and have them print these images on the highest quality gloss paper.

(4) Put it all front to back (If they are clever, they will print it front / back so they can just fold and trim it)

(5) Laminate it to a credit card size for daily use, and one twice that size when you really want something "official" (MBK - 150 Baht for SIX cards)

The result is startling. It looks BETTER and more official than a government issued document.

Now remember, never claim it is a government document, that is forgery then .. but to get in and out of office buildings, ID at the hospital, and YES .. at the front desk ... theses WORK..

Why? The 300 baht per day clerk taking this information is NOT Immigration, all they need is the information presented in a way that is obviously your picture and numbers.

5 years ... 100 % results. (Note, I still HAVE the passport with me when I travel .. since I need to get through the airport, and in case the Hotel does not accept my "Card" .. but the last time I checked, front desk clerks are not looking for an argument with a Farang guest)

And of the hundred times I have used it, you all know the next sentence, 99% of that, they NEVER REALLY LOOKED AT IT. It was official looking, has my picture, and looks like it just came from the American embassy.

Would love to scan it and show you all .. 555 ... not today. :-)

Love your work.

[quandow]

It really baffles me why anyone overstays unless it's medical or other mitigating circumstances....

What baffles me is the inverse.

i have tha absolute luxury of a retirement visa, and always have.

What I do not get is how people can stay for years, and jump through hoop after hoop. How much DOES all that in and out add up to?

Pull out a calculator. 20,000 maximum fine is cheap, if you stay long enough!

The trick is, it is .. as is so many things in life .. all about your attitude the day you confront the problem. I mean, we have Gilo .... as he posted .. overstay 11 Years , pay the 20,000, and turn right back around and come to the kingdom.

He is a math genius!

Unless he had been caught. THEN he would be kicking himself in the rear for being a cheap charlie. Not to mention, ya just sleep better at night knowing you have a valid, up-to-date jing jing passport!

[timendres]

This is not an official line its just what I am thinking now

They have a set of visa rules and most of us follow those rules. But there are some that do not and still go out and come back

It may be that the powers to be feel that they just want the money and don't really care about the abusers since they know they will get them when they go and then again

when they come back and spend more of their money

They want the money its that simple

This is quite true. Come on. What is the harm done by an overstayer?

These people are very often staying because of a relationship with a Thai. They are spending their money here. None of them are taking jobs away from a Thai person (quite the opposite, probably creating jobs), they are not sucking up government handouts. They are not putting their kids into free schools, or using free medical facilities, or any other drain on society. They are simply not playing by the rules. It is not like the US or Europe, where the government is handing out free everything, and people who are there with no visa are actually a real burden on society.

You can argue that some of these folks are selling drugs to finance themselves, which is likely true. Of course, you still have to deal with criminals, but it has nothing to do with overstaying. Most Farang drug dealers have legitimate visas and are not overstays.

I don't condone it, and I think everyone should follow the rules. But it is perfectly reasonable for these overstay folks to get a fine and move on. Then, welcome back. Of course, the fine should reflect the reality. 5 days over should pay much less than 11 years over. Something like 100 or 200 baht per day and 50,000 per year. Just because some circumstance caused a guy to overstay by a day, he should not be seriously penalized. Just pay the 100 baht, get a letter saying "please do not do that", and move along. The guy who overstayed by one year? Well, 50,000 is a seriously lump of coal, and he will have to justify the price to himself.

But how are they harming anyone?

[paz]

This is quite true. Come on. What is the harm done by an overstayer?

....

But how are they harming anyone?

Of course, they don't.

But some people think they are, because they associate an Immigration infraction with real crime So you will hear the "low life", "scum" and other epithets used easily.

They also are worried that the behavior "cast a bad light on foreigners", which clearly isn't true, Thai doesn't even known and much less care.

And some one likes to do Baht counting to come to the brilliant conclusion that e.g. someone staying 10 years ends up paying the "cheap price" of Bt 2,000 a year to be illegal an year while in most cases others pay Bt 1,900 to stay legally. Apparently they are bothered by that.

[jspill]

You can argue that some of these folks are selling drugs to finance themselves, which is likely true. Of course, you still have to deal with criminals, but it has nothing to do with overstaying. Most Farang drug dealers have legitimate visas and are not overstays.

Some, sure, but I also know quite a few guys who have plenty of money, and could easily afford the rigmarole of the visa system, they just choose to overstay to save the time, effort, and risk to their health from getting on minivans and domestic Asian airline carriers. The rationale being that Thailand seems quite happy with a 20k THB injection of cash on their exit, equivalent to 20 x 60 = 1200 days stay on tourist visas. They aren't working illegally or engaged in any criminal activity. There is no evidence that overstay results in 'things being made harder for law-abiding expats', a common line on here. And no reason to 'be scared to look over your shoulder' either - as posted, passport checks are exceedingly rare. And as long as one has the funds, you are out of IDC within 24 hours - again regularly posted. In fact there are VIP rooms with Wifi and pizza delivery (see thaibreaker's thread)

Edited July 9, 2015 by jspill

[gemguy]

I have one question.

With Non O visa multiple we have to do visa runs, pay for trip, visa for Laos/Cambodia/Malaysia...

Why they not give us option to give them that money and in exchange for another 90 days?

More money in Thailand + not wasted 1 whole day or even 2 days.

If you have a "visa agent" and there are many....they can arrange that sort of thing for you...for a price of course

Cheers

Yeah, what price? If I go to Maesot, it would cost me about 450Bt fuel for motorbike, 600Bt for one night in hotel, 500Bt to Myanmar Immigration.

How much would it cost me for a "visa agent'?

It is all about the convenience and having it done inside the country...for a cost....and more than doing it on your own...but more convenient.

You have to seek out an agent and ask them about the cost ....I do not know the costs of their service.

Cheers

[elviajero]

Having a visa does not guarantee entry. If an IO has legal cause he can turn someone away visa or not.

There are main two criteria IOs turn people away for - suspicion of working here illegally, or not having sufficient funds to support their stay. That's why they sometimes ask for 20k Baht cash for tourist visas / 10k on visa waiver, or proof of a travel itinerary.

That's about it.

If they'd already been blacklisted they'd have a stamp to that effect in their passport - for one of these reasons http://www.thaivisa.com/392-0.html

I was responding to ToYoungToRetire's comment, "You can apply for a Visa at the Embassy and save the expense of flying there only to be turned away.", which suggests that a visa is the only requirement to gaining entry. It makes no difference whether or not they have a visa (assuming qualification for visa exempt entry) if they cannot comply with entry conditions, such as those you mention, they may be denied. So the advice given was wrong and gives a false sense of security.

Yes I agree that the two most common exclusions are illegal working and insufficient funds, but in the case of the OP's friend he was deported and being previously deported is a reason under section 12 that his friend could be excluded anytime in the future. Not likely in the current climate but possible.

[DinoSabanovic]

I have one question.

With Non O visa multiple we have to do visa runs, pay for trip, visa for Laos/Cambodia/Malaysia...

Why they not give us option to give them that money and in exchange for another 90 days?

More money in Thailand + not wasted 1 whole day or even 2 days.

If you have a "visa agent" and there are many....they can arrange that sort of thing for you...for a price of course

Cheers

Yeah, what price? If I go to Maesot, it would cost me about 450Bt fuel for motorbike, 600Bt for one night in hotel, 500Bt to Myanmar Immigration.

How much would it cost me for a "visa agent'?

When I go to Laos, with car from Korat fuel is 1500, night in hotel 450, food and other expenses 300, Laos visa 1500 + 5000 Thai visa . After that I have to go to Poi Pet border every 90 days. Fuel 400 and 40$ visa for Cambodia. No other expenses and visa run to Poi Pet is done in 1-2 hours + trip with car.

I was asking because it would be better for Thailand and foreigners but, as you said, this is Thailand.

[thaibreaker]

I recently overstayed a year. My problem, was that I never had enough money at once, to pay the apartment I was living in (and, I would never run out on them without paying), plus the ticket, PLUS the overstay fee on top of it. I could have paid one of two of these at many points, but not all at once.

I finally departed - last month - through Sawanabhumi. They were not 'overjoyed' at my announcement; but were not nasty about it, either. There were a number of people paying overstays, at the same moment. I paid the fine.

And, like your friend, there is no big Red Stamp for it, or official blacklisting.

However, I asked the man if I can return someday; and he said 'Maybe! You overstay long time!' I think that while not 'official', the times have changed a little bit; not for sure one would come through easy again, if expecting a visa exemption the next time.

In other words, he's not 'blacklisted' - but it's likely that when he returns, they will look it up and see his record. If he is showing up, expecting to be let in again without a visa - I don't know, of course - he may have some problems.

It would be terrible to fly all the way to Thailand, and then not be allowed in.

This is the problem for anyone who overstays.

You now have a passport with a stamp in it that in effect says you violated the immigration laws of Thailand.

When you go to any Thai Embassy to apply for another visa of any kind then the consulate general may reject your visa application.

If you show up without a visa at the airport or border crossing and they see the overstay stamp then the immigration officer can, at his or her discretion, refuse entry into the country.

No, they won`t. Just the opposite. Immigration and consulates want you to get a proper visa, and keep you away from any thoughts of overstaying again. They only reject if you can`t meet the requirements.

[DinoSabanovic]

I have one more question and it's important.

What would happen if person had accident or stuck in hospital bed for 5-6 months and as a result he overstays, what then?

[coulson]

I have one more question and it's important.

What would happen if person had accident or stuck in hospital bed for 5-6 months and as a result he overstays, what then?

20,000 baht fine & possibly the least of his worries when he get's back on his feet.

[ubonjoe]

I have one more question and it's important.

What would happen if person had accident or stuck in hospital bed for 5-6 months and as a result he overstays, what then?

An extension of stay based upon being under medical care and being unable to travel would prevent going on an overstay in this case.

[DinoSabanovic]

I have one more question and it's important.

What would happen if person had accident or stuck in hospital bed for 5-6 months and as a result he overstays, what then?

An extension of stay based upon being under medical care and being unable to travel would prevent going on an overstay in this case.

Thank you.

[Guest]

I have one more question and it's important.

What would happen if person had accident or stuck in hospital bed for 5-6 months and as a result he overstays, what then?

An extension of stay based upon being under medical care and being unable to travel would prevent going on an overstay in this case.

You know Ubonjoe ... long time participants in the Thai Visa site view your advice on all things "Passport' as the gold standard, and your advice is much appreciated. Thank You.

It really has become the "debate ender" ... as in "No, sorry, Ubonjoe says "X" and that is what I will do"

Now in this medical case, of course, we must present this BEFORE we are on overstay, correct? We can not just show up and say "The dog ate my homework"

Correct? If so ... What would the process be then? Reach out to our Embassy, or reach out to Thai Immigration?

Edited July 10, 2015 by Guest

[ubonjoe]

I have one more question and it's important.

What would happen if person had accident or stuck in hospital bed for 5-6 months and as a result he overstays, what then?

An extension of stay based upon being under medical care and being unable to travel would prevent going on an overstay in this case.

You know Ubonjoe ... long time participants in the Thai Visa site view your advice on all things "Passport' as the gold standard, and your advice is much appreciated. Thank You.

It really has become the "debate ender" ... as in "No, sorry, Ubonjoe says "X" and that is what I will do"

Now in this medical case, of course, we must present this BEFORE we are on overstay, correct? We can not just show up and say "The dog ate my homework"

Correct? If so ... What would the process be then? Reach out to our Embassy, or reach out to Thai Immigration?

The important word in my post is prevent. Going after being on overstay and applying for the extension would not cancel the overstay. It might be possible to pay the overstay and have an extension granted.

An embassy could do nothing about the overstay. They would simply tell a person they have to pay the fine. Immigration has no authority to waive an overstay fine.