Hooray! Chiang Mai effectively cracking down on street-parking violations.

[true blue]

bet the moaners about car parking and various other petty traffic violations,dont even own a car, brained washed pc correct sados.

[mrwebb8825]

Now if they'll just clear the motorbikes and vendors off the freakin sidewalks we'd be getting somewhere.

[casinoexp]

I like it. How can you possibly make progress without enforcement. The negativity about the progress is unfair. The only way Thailand can no longer be third world is to have some laws actually enforced.

[Konini]

Of course I am. Certainly not one 100% will stop, but many places have progressive tickets as well. 500 baht the first time,1500 the next, impounded, the next, etc. Again, if you don't think this changes the percentage of cars parked illegally, you really must have a problem with logic...

This definitely works, and not just for parking. About 15 years ago we went to Borneo and I commented to a local that the streets were so clean. She told me that the penalties for littering were a fine of the amount of a day's wage the first time you were caught, a week's wage the second time, a month's wage the third time and imprisonment for any subsequent offences, but nobody had actually gotten to the imprisonment stage. The threat wasn't empty and the tactic worked - there really wasn't any litter around.

I've seen so many documentaries and news items on TV in UK and Australia about people with hundreds of unpaid parking fines just laughing at the system, no doubt in other countries it's the same. We went to NZ about 10 years ago and saw billboards everywhere regarding cars owned by non-payers being crushed, presumable after being impounded and the owner being given the chance to pay. I don't know if that had the desired effect, but if the police carried through on it I imagine it would.

[Ulic]

Maybe a potential business opportunity for the right connected person. Tow trucks called in

by police for double parked cars. Ticket, tow, storage fees, inconvenience. That would quickly

curb the problem and make someone a lot of money.

[Mudcrab]

Now if they'll just clear the motorbikes and vendors off the freakin sidewalks we'd be getting somewhere.

Yes, somewhere just like you left to come here.

[Konini]

Nope. You've got it completely backwards. I do NOT think that clamping a tire and giving a 400 baht fine is going to solve the problem. If someone can afford to buy and car, afford to maintain a car, and afford gas for it, they can afford the 400 baht fine that they might receive once every 5 years. Make the fine 4,000 baht and there 'might' be a difference seen. Or tow the cars away, charge the driver for the towing fee PLUS impound fee PLUS a hefty fine, and you solve all the problems; the traffic flows better, the police get their money, and perhaps the driver learns an important lesson in civic responsibility. If not, he'll certainly think twice before illegally parking again.

The amount matters. Not quite the same, but when we lived in New Zealand almost 30 years ago, I shared an office in Wellington with someone who chose to drive into town every day and leave her car in a metered spot without bothering to put money in the meter. Her tickets, which I was staggered to find out only averaged one a week, and which she always paid by the due date, were cheaper than paying for a carpark space for a month. This fact totally amazed me, but she felt no shame about it.

I'm assuming this has changed now in Wellington (I would hope so!), but it goes to prove that amount that you have to dig out of your pocket matters; if the monthly fines were more than the carparking fee she would have stopped doing it.

The best solution to parking problems (everywhere) has already been mentioned by LarryBird; fines which get progressively higher. I would also add to that what they do in Finland - the amount of the fine is linked to your earnings; an offender had a speeding fine of more than $100,000 recently and it's not an isolated case.

[biggles45]

Giving Thais tickets to curb their bad driving habits and disregard of road laws is a total waste of time. Look at how effective it is in getting them to wear helmets. I even see them driving with a helmet in the basket or on the handlebars but not on their heads.

[true blue]

wish you so called good doers would take your silly pet grievences, back to were you come from, and leave the thais alone to get on with there life as they see fit.

[hml367]

It would be interesting to know how Thai citizens not somehow related to foreigners or businesses catering to foreigners think about this.

Personally, I can't remember ever hearing a Thai citizen complaining about this parking subject. I can't even remember them complaining about being booted. What I can remember is they just deal with it.

[Saan]

Are you really suggesting that giving someone a parking ticket is going to stop them from parking illegally in the future?

A parking ticket with 1000 Bt to be paid on release maybe do it.

Towed car, payment for towing fee, impound charges, plus 4,000 baht fine. THAT would do it!

We can see what a 200 baht fine had done for helmet violations.

Nah, too lenient. Execute, on the spot, anyone found double parking, I say. Out with the gun, bang.

Much fairer, same punishment for everyone. Four thousand baht would be ruinous for poor Thais while a drop in the ocean and no disincentive for rich ones.

[FolkGuitar]

Are you really suggesting that giving someone a parking ticket is going to stop them from parking illegally in the future?

A parking ticket with 1000 Bt to be paid on release maybe do it.

Towed car, payment for towing fee, impound charges, plus 4,000 baht fine. THAT would do it!

We can see what a 200 baht fine had done for helmet violations.

Nah, too lenient. Execute, on the spot, anyone found double parking, I say. Out with the gun, bang.

Much fairer, same punishment for everyone. Four thousand baht would be ruinous for poor Thais while a drop in the ocean and no disincentive for rich ones.

If as you say, then the poor won't take the chance on double-parking when going shopping at the talat, which is where the majority of double-parking and triple-parking occur. The rich don't shop at the talat. Problem solved.

While a progressive fine would work, it requires a massive manpower expense to enforce it. Right now there are only a few traffic officers out there clamping cars. The chances of getting hit twice are relatively small. Three times almost non-existent. There are times when cars are at an absolute standstill inside Chiang Mai Gate because of the triple-parked cars blocking the roadway. The same is true when heading north off the superhighway passing the talat on the north side after Central Festival, or on the east side in Mae Rim. My Thai friends who drive often mention the increasing serious nature of the traffic situation these days. While they might not bitch and moan about it to everyone they meet, they aren't happy with the existing situation.

[LarryBird]

Folk Guitar, you really are confused about Thailand, aren't you? You and your basic suggestions for how things would be better. As if the people here couldn't come up with these things on their own. I am sure they would be interested in your ideas on preventing corruption as well. Let us know how that goes, ok?

[FolkGuitar]

Folk Guitar, you really are confused about Thailand, aren't you? You and your basic suggestions for how things would be better. As if the people here couldn't come up with these things on their own. I am sure they would be interested in your ideas on preventing corruption as well. Let us know how that goes, ok?

Larry, a Moderator forced you to stop sending me private messages. Is it really isn't necessary for you to continue with your tirades in public?

[connda]

I've lived here too long. I just drive up on the sidewalk and park like the Thai. If you're on the road side of a red/yellow marked curbs - wheel lock, but if you park on the sidewalk, no problem.

Wake me up when they 'Really' enforce the laws. This isn't anything new nor is it news. Ya'll think that you're still living in a Western country. Your not.

[RedQualia]

As when done in Bangkok, clamping down on illegal parking doesn't really fix the problem. The roads inside the moat are "designed" for ox-carts, tuk-tuks, motorbikes, samlors, etc. They are not designed for cars and trucks, but they're there anyway. And then ten shops plus two motorbike restaurants share five parking spaces, with all being possessive about them. They belong to THEIR shop(s) only!

Someone with some serious experience needs to come and actually design/manage traffic flow in both Chiang Mai and Bangkok. Maybe not really that great an idea to paint a yellow line down the middle of a one lane road, thereby declaring it to be two lanes, so that it goes around the sacred tree. What a great place to funnel traffic from the nearby elementary school! (Does there really need to be any elementary schools inside the moat?) Or have three lanes painted on one side of an intersection, with only one lane on the other side (the intersection near Chiang Mai Ram hospital). Having a fairly large Thai market near Chiang Mai Gate that also doubles as a bus and sorng teaw stop with quite limited parking and cars/sorng teaws/buses double and triple parked, and traffic funneling into a one lane road going past what must be a big spirit house is... Well... "problematic."

Unless and until someone gives some serious thought to designing and managing traffic flow in Chiang Mai, the only solution appears to be to drive like all those unlicensed Thai drivers. And to park like them, too. I've learned how...

[amexpat]

"The roads inside the moat are "designed" for ox-carts, tuk-tuks, motorbikes, samlors, etc. They are not designed for cars and trucks"

Doesn't that suggest anything to you?

[Saan]

As when done in Bangkok, clamping down on illegal parking doesn't really fix the problem. The roads inside the moat are "designed" for ox-carts, tuk-tuks, motorbikes, samlors, etc. They are not designed for cars and trucks, but they're there anyway. And then ten shops plus two motorbike restaurants share five parking spaces, with all being possessive about them. They belong to THEIR shop(s) only!

Someone with some serious experience needs to come and actually design/manage traffic flow in both Chiang Mai and Bangkok. Maybe not really that great an idea to paint a yellow line down the middle of a one lane road, thereby declaring it to be two lanes, so that it goes around the sacred tree. What a great place to funnel traffic from the nearby elementary school! (Does there really need to be any elementary schools inside the moat?) Or have three lanes painted on one side of an intersection, with only one lane on the other side (the intersection near Chiang Mai Ram hospital). Having a fairly large Thai market near Chiang Mai Gate that also doubles as a bus and sorng teaw stop with quite limited parking and cars/sorng teaws/buses double and triple parked, and traffic funneling into a one lane road going past what must be a big spirit house is... Well... "problematic."

Unless and until someone gives some serious thought to designing and managing traffic flow in Chiang Mai, the only solution appears to be to drive like all those unlicensed Thai drivers. And to park like them, too. I've learned how...

The Thai Government have actually employed a former Victorian policeman to give them advice on traffic. Whether they follow that advice or not is another thing.

I can remember him saying that one of the many problems was too long an interval between change of traffic lights.

[FolkGuitar]

The Thai Government have actually employed a former Victorian policeman to give them advice on traffic. Whether they follow that advice or not is another thing.

I can remember him saying that one of the many problems was too long an interval between change of traffic lights.

Hmmm.... that might be perhaps a bit outdated. Maybe we can get someone more Edwardian?

[andreandre]

The Thai Government have actually employed a former Victorian policeman to give them advice on traffic. Whether they follow that advice or not is another thing.

I can remember him saying that one of the many problems was too long an interval between change of traffic lights.

Hmmm.... that might be perhaps a bit outdated. Maybe we can get someone more Edwardian?

[Mapguy]

Wow, OP, talk about drawing a quick crowd!! I haven't been here as long as Beetlejuice (!), but long enough to confirm what a few people above have noted. Enforcement is periodic. As the Beetle will tell you, given (I believe) his brother-in-law or son is a policeman, the traffic police staff is actually quite small in number, so "spot enforcement" is a practical and city budget matter.

The manner of enforcement is spotty and quite forgiving. The fines are not huge. Someone mentioned if you had a car towed away, and not booted, that would make a lasting impression, but that is an expensive proposition. Any double-parked cars that are booted would definitely be a traffic hazard. I have never seen one. Always too busy dodging motorcycles to check all the details on double-parked cars, which are usually of people getting a quick dinner to take home, et cetera. What's my hurry, anyway!

The cynics are out in force on this thread, of course. Remember a bribe is an offer made by the miscreant! The one ticket I almost got in ten years or so was half-written when I came running up. I apologized, the policeman smiled and put his book away.

Maybe some people have an attitudinal problem to deal with!! Sorry, cynics --- yeah, I know some sh*t goes down --- but I have never offerred or have had a bribe suggested, and I have paid a few totally justified visits to the police station to pay the fines, fortunately not many.

There are two places I would never want to work in Chiang Mai. One is in the Immigration Office. The other is on the street as a traffic cop.

[Saan]

The Thai Government have actually employed a former Victorian policeman to give them advice on traffic. Whether they follow that advice or not is another thing.

I can remember him saying that one of the many problems was too long an interval between change of traffic lights.

Hmmm.... that might be perhaps a bit outdated. Maybe we can get someone more Edwardian?

Must have thought I was back in Australia when writing that. A policeman who was a senior officer in the traffic branch of the Victoria Police based in Melbourne. OK.

[slapout]

bring in indians for traffic control at busy intersections they stand on a 1 meter elevated box with a 5 to 6 foot bamboo pole. a good whack and motocycles drivers pick themselves up and have learned quickly to obay signal or police hand signals, cars that ignore get a good whack which leaves a visable dent in the vehicle, broken head lihjt window, etc.

you can learn a lot from what works elsewhere if you pay attention.

[Bruce404]

Where are the boots for the motorbikes parked on the walkway? Half fast policing is worthless.

I would agree that "booting" the motorbikes that make sidewalks an obstacle course for pedestrians might help.

And maybe it would be a good idea, too, to put steel locks on the legs of street vendors who set up their booths occupying much of the sidewalk (when not authorized as a one-day walking street or fair).

I recall a few months back one evening, having to walk a hundred meters or so in an actual car-traffic lane of busy Sukhumvit Road in the Siam Square/Rajdamri area in Bangkok, in order to make progress getting somewhere, because these vendor booths nearly completely blocked the pedestrian flow on the sidewalk, leaving just a tiny one-way path for people.

PS. Some commenters have pointed out the unfairness that fines for improper parking are a minor annoyance to the rich, but can be a substantial burden for the poor -- more than they have in pocket or even earn in a day's work or more. True. But that's the democratic fairness of wheel locks: whether rich or poor, both face the penalty of having to walk or find a ride to a police station, and likely being late for one's next appointment or task.

[true blue]

feel so sorry for you guys advocating change of every day life in los you just don't relies how brain washed and programed you are to events on the other side of the world that have no meaning here.

[northernjohn]

feel so sorry for you guys advocating change of every day life in los you just don't relies how brain washed and programed you are to events on the other side of the world that have no meaning here.

to true true blue.

It has been 5 days this thread has been running has any one seen any boots in the last two days?

[amexpat]

feel so sorry for you guys advocating change of every day life in los you just don't relies how brain washed and programed you are to events on the other side of the world that have no meaning here.

You mean like obeying the law of the land? Progress?

I guess I am one of those you pity. Heck, I even advocate slowing down enough to use capitalization, punctuation, complete sentences and spell checking.

Pray for me.

[FolkGuitar]

feel so sorry for you guys advocating change of every day life in los you just don't relies how brain washed and programed you are to events on the other side of the world that have no meaning here.

to true true blue.

It has been 5 days this thread has been running has any one seen any boots in the last two days?

I did. Yesterday, about 12:45 near Sompet Market on Moon Muang Road. Policeman was carrying two sets of them walking near a line of double-parked cars. I couldn't tell if he was about to put them on, or in the process of taking them off.

[northernjohn]

feel so sorry for you guys advocating change of every day life in los you just don't relies how brain washed and programed you are to events on the other side of the world that have no meaning here.

You mean like obeying the law of the land? Progress?

I guess I am one of those you pity. Heck, I even advocate slowing down enough to use capitalization, punctuation, complete sentences and spell checking.

Pray for me.

at last an expert

I have always been under the impression that you were supposed to indent the start of a paragraph by five letters am I correct? Am I just playing monkey see monkey do on Thai Visa. I am not that good on punctuation and some times my spell checker is clueless. Can't even find the word in a dictionary.

Edit

Had to change no that to not that.

[northernjohn]

feel so sorry for you guys advocating change of every day life in los you just don't relies how brain washed and programed you are to events on the other side of the world that have no meaning here.

to true true blue.

It has been 5 days this thread has been running has any one seen any boots in the last two days?

I did. Yesterday, about 12:45 near Sompet Market on Moon Muang Road. Policeman was carrying two sets of them walking near a line of double-parked cars. I couldn't tell if he was about to put them on, or in the process of taking them off.

Were there any on the vehicles? Just carrying them around town is meaningless. Particularly when he is walking by a string of cars he should be putting them on.