Tdameritrade refuses to wire money to Thailand

[opporna]

A friend recommended Thaivisa.com as the place that might have answers about this problem.

4 and a half years ago, tdameritrade wired money to my Bangkok Bank account use an ACH? transfer using Bangkok Bank. A few days ago, I contacted them and asked for another such wire. They asked me to send an international wire transfer request, and I did. Then they refused to send the money. Quoting from their reply:

Thank you for allowing me to assist you today. We have received instructions to withdraw funds from your TD Ameritrade account ending in <xxxx>. Regrettably, we are unable to process the request at this time for the following reason(s):

TD Ameritrade is unable to disburse funds to Thailand. Please contact us at the number below to discuss the options available to you.

Any ideas as to how I can overcome this?

Thanks in advance.

opporna

[beachproperty]

Well....Ummmm

Why not call the number provided to find out what options they make available to you?

Edited July 15, 2015 by beachproperty

[Jingthing]

Interesting.

Are you stating a U.S. address and phone number for that account?

Did they require a valid I.D. to effect the SWIFT transfer?

What exactly is their process for SWIFT transfers? Each company is different. Fax/phone/mail/online, etc.?

Also surprising is that you seem to claim that previously you did a DOMESTIC ACH transfer to Bangkok Bank New York (presumably you have an active link with AT for that).
Yet you say they denied that.

That is the first time I've heard that reported here. Technically U.S. financial institutions should see those ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank New York as domestic transfers.

Did you say something to them about using it to send money to Thailand?

I suspect this is an issue with them seeing you as not a U.S. resident anymore ... but only based on the limited cues you give.

Perhaps my guess is wrong and you live in the U.S. instead.

As far as a company not transferring money to Thailand as a policy, NO WAY is that their actual policy.

This is about something with YOUR account and how they view you now.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Jingthing

[Pib]

Call them and see what the real issue is. I expect the real issue is they are not 100% sure you are who you say you are. Maybe they need a new signature card, updated ID, an issue with foreign country residence, etc. Call'em.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Pib

[thrilled]

Transfer some of your money to Schwab brokerage account.$25 to wire money.Um also Schwab checking,it's free ATM fees.They

Reimburse you all fees.Give them A call.

[Jingthing]

Transfer some of your money to Schwab brokerage account.$25 to wire money.Um also Schwab checking,it's free ATM fees.They

Reimburse you all fees.Give them A call.

Schwab U.S. or Schwab International.

Did you open while still in the U.S. with U.S. address and phone?

Those details matter a lot to expats.

The OP hasn't explained his situation very well ... we're just left to guess.

It's hard to open any U.S. account once you move.

[ldnguy]

They gave you a number to call, so instead of calling it you came on here to ask. Why not just call the number and ask what the problem is?

[Jingthing]

I think he did right to ask here because he might get some good information on how to talk to the bank, which it seems has an issue with him.

Again, a financial institution that does wires from the U.S. won't really not allow any wires to Thailand specifically for ALL customers.
North Korea, yes. Not Thailand.

So something is up.

I ask the OP to give a lot more information and then maybe he can get more help here before talking to the bank.

I also suspect there might be a problem with them because of something he ALREADY might have said to them ... and you lot here suggest he talk to them again without doing some research?

Edited July 15, 2015 by Jingthing

[Langsuan Man]

4 and a half years ago, tdameritrade wired money to my Bangkok Bank account use an ACH? transfer using Bangkok Bank.

As the OP has stated he did an ACH transfer from his US bank to his Bangkok Bank via Automated Clearing House, which is not a SWIFT wire transfer since it had to go through the NY branch as a domestic transfer

Either TD Ameritrade has changed their system or they no longer do free ACH transfers. I had to remind USAA one time when they said that they could not transfer to Bangkok Bank that it was US routing number and they immediately replied with an apology that they had missed that and made the transfer

But as others have stated call them and find out what the story is, if the OP did it once via ACH he should be able to do it again, but I can't help but feel that we are missing something in this story and only this initiating office can clear it up

[Jingthing]

Something else I find odd about this report.

OP says he "contacted" AT years ago to do an ACH transfer to Bangkok Bank New York (then Thailand).

I've never heard that it is ever done that way in the first place.

Generally you follow the instructions on the Bangkok Bank Thailand website about doing ACH transfers via New York.

The first step is online access to your U.S. account where you initially set up the LINK to Bangkok Bank New York.

The link is one way ... OUT of your U.S. account. Never back.

Once the link is verified, it should stay set in the online U.S. account indefinitely, unless actively deleted by the account holder.

Often TEST DEPOSITS are needed to fully establish the link.

Then later when you actually need to use it, you login to your U.S. account and just do an online domestic ACH transfer just as if you were doing that to any U.S. bank.

So if the OP never actually set this up, I'm surprised he was ever able to do an ACH transfer.

I still think this is a personal block for this person, not a universal block to Thailand.

Depending on the details of what exactly happened here and why AT is giving grief, I would consider if you have online access to try to establish a link to Bangkok Bank (and not even calling them). That's a DOMESTIC link. They said they won't send to Thailand. That's not to Thailand. That's to NEW YORK as far they're supposed to be concerned.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

How to use the service

1. You can initiate the transaction via the internet banking service linked to your US bank account. In general, the process to complete this is as follows:
   • Go to the Domestic Interbank Transfer menu
   • Go to the Inter Institution Transfers option
   • Select Bangkok Bank's New York branch as the recipient bank
     • Enter the 9-digit routing number of Bangkok Bank's New York branch as 026008691
     • Enter the bank name as Bangkok Bank, New York branch
     • Enter the account number of the recipient at Bangkok Bank in Thailand
       - For Thai Baht account, enter the 10-digit account number
       - For US Dollar account, enter the first 16-digit account number
     • Enter the name of the recipient account in Thailand, if required.
       
       If you want to transfer funds into a third party account, you must use the internet banking service of banks in the United States which allow the remitter to specify the beneficiary’s name. Otherwise, the payment instruction Bangkok Bank receives may not carry the correct beneficiary name and Bangkok Bank will have to return funds to the remitter.
       
       You should check with your US bank for the correct transfer menu for ACH payment. The terms and conditions of internet banking services may vary between banks. You should read all related terms and conditions of your account carefully before initiating any transaction. Bangkok Bank is not involved in the provision of internet banking services by banks in the US.
       
       *Please click here to view more details abouton USD accounts, terms and conditions of deposit-withdrawal transactions.
2. After the registration process, the US bank will initiate two trial deposits by sending small amounts of less than USD 1.00 to the recipient’s bank account in Thailand. This is to verify that the recipient's account is valid. The bank in the US will send an email asking the recipient to check and confirm the trial deposit amounts.
   
   The sending of trial deposit amounts depends upon the terms and conditions of the originating banks in the US and may vary from bank to bank. Bangkok Bank will be able to credit the recipient’s account in Thailand only when the name and account number of the recipient in the transfer instruction matches the name and account number at Bangkok Bank.
3. You will then need to ask the recipient in Thailand to check the exact amount of the two trial deposits. The recipient can do this by calling Bualuang Phone on 1333 or (66) 0-2645-5555.
   
   Using the information provided by the recipient, you will be asked by the bank in the US to confirm the exact amount of the trial deposits. If this is correctly confirmed by you, the funds transfer can be made.
   
   Bangkok Bank will be able to credit the recipient’s account in Thailand only when the name and account number of the recipient in your transfer instruction from the banks in the US matches the recipient’s name and account number at Bangkok Bank.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Jingthing

[opporna]

Update:

I called the tdameritrade wire transfer desk last night at 8 pm out time (that's when they open). The guy told me Thailand is now on a list of countries that they will not wire money to. I pointed out that 4 years ago I made an ACH transfer from tdameritrade through the Bangkok Bank New York branch to exactly the same account in Thailand. His answer was that the list of countries to which they do not transfer money is continually being updated.

I want to add that I pointed out that Bangkok Bank actually does the transfer to Thailand, and that I only wanted them to transfer the money to Bangkok Bank. He answered it doesn't matter--that they cannot wire money if the money is intended to go to Thailand.

Again--the guy at the wire transfer desk says that Thailand is on a list of countries to which tdameritrade refuses to send wire transfers.

Edited July 16, 2015 by opporna

[TheAppletons]

Update:

I called the tdameritrade wire transfer desk last night at 8 pm out time (that's when they open). The guy told me Thailand is now on a list of countries that they will not wire money to. I pointed out that 4 years ago I made an ACH transfer from tdameritrade through the Bangkok Bank New York branch to exactly the same account in Thailand. His answer was that the list of countries to which they do not transfer money is continually being updated.

I want to add that I pointed out that Bangkok Bank actually does the transfer to Thailand, and that I only wanted them to transfer the money to Bangkok Bank. He answered it doesn't matter--that they cannot wire money if the money is intended to go to Thailand.

Again--the guy at the wire transfer desk says that Thailand is on a list of countries to which tdameritrade refuses to send wire transfers.

I think using the term "wire money" with the person manning the "wire transfer desk" was probably not a good decision. From your OP, it sounds as if you want an ACH transfer - which is different than a wire transfer. You might want to try again using the correct terminology with your account representative and - further - give them the USA routing number of BKK Bank New York.

Edited July 16, 2015 by TheAppletons

[opporna]

Something else I find odd about this report.

OP says he "contacted" AT years ago to do an ACH transfer to Bangkok Bank New York (then Thailand).

I've never heard that it is ever done that way in the first place.

Generally you follow the instructions on the Bangkok Bank Thailand website about doing ACH transfers via New York.

The first step is online access to your U.S. account where you initially set up the LINK to Bangkok Bank New York.

The link is one way ... OUT of your U.S. account. Never back.

Once the link is verified, it should stay set in the online U.S. account indefinitely, unless actively deleted by the account holder.

Often TEST DEPOSITS are needed to fully establish the link.

Then later when you actually need to use it, you login to your U.S. account and just do an online domestic ACH transfer just as if you were doing that to any U.S. bank.

So if the OP never actually set this up, I'm surprised he was ever able to do an ACH transfer.

I still think this is a personal block for this person, not a universal block to Thailand.

I do not transfer money to Thailand often, obviously. I contacted tdameritrade 4 years ago *exactly because* I do not often transfer money, and I followed their instructions to be able to transfer the money. At that time I remember being required to send a fax to tdameritrade to initiate the one-time transfer. The transfer was throught the New York branch--I had to give the routing code. If you wish to be skeptical about that, feel free.

I can only write what I have directly experienced. I'd be quite happy to meet someone from Thaivisa to verify that I'm a real person and that my statements are backed up by my personal experience in Thailand.

As to it being a hold on my personal account--I agree that may be possible, but if so then the guy at the wire transfer desk gave me false information. He said specifically to me that Thailand is on a list of countries to which they will not wire money.

[opporna]

I think using the term "wire money" with the person manning the "wire transfer desk" was probably not a good decision. From your OP, it sounds as if you want an ACH transfer - which is different than a wire transfer. You might want to try again using the correct terminology with your account representative and - further - give them the USA routing number of BKK Bank New York.

Well, maybe you're right. However, I do not transfer money very often and I called tdameritrade to ask for help, asking to make a similar transaction to the one 4 years earlier. The people on the phone told me what to do; I followed their instructions. Then I received a message from tdameritrade saying that my transfer had been refused and that I should contact the wire transfer desk and I was given the number for the wire transfer desk.

I see no point in trying again. I do intend to file a complaint with tdameritrade on two points.

1. I was walked through the ACH procedure by their representative. That person had the details of my transaction 4 years ago. That person was in contact with the wire tranfer desk as well, and put me on hold several times. I was asked to send a pdf document to them titled "Wire Request (International)" using their secure message center. I filled out that form, printed it, signed it, scanned it, and sent it back to them as requested.

I sent the document Monday afternoon. Tuesday morning, I woke up and had a message saying my request had been refused because the money was going to Thailand.

This is an unacceptable waste of my time. Why was I not told they don't send money to Thailand before jumping through all of those hoops?

2. My second complaint is that I do not wish to do business with a company that refuses to send money to Thailand.

Edited July 16, 2015 by opporna

[beachproperty]

Can you write checks on your TD ameritrade acct.? if so ....write a check and deposit it in you Thailand acct.

That's what I do.

[gk10002000]

Well, the TD representative said, incorrectly or not that they won't wire money if the intended destination is Thailand. Sending the money to Bangkok Bank in New York while certainly could end up going to Thailand, doesn't have to end up going to Thailand. And TD worrying about what you intend to do with your money is not relevant. I think the TD rep is just making some assumptions about what the TD policy is.

[opporna]

Well, the TD representative said, incorrectly or not that they won't wire money if the intended destination is Thailand. Sending the money to Bangkok Bank in New York while certainly could end up going to Thailand, doesn't have to end up going to Thailand. And TD worrying about what you intend to do with your money is not relevant. I think the TD rep is just making some assumptions about what the TD policy is.

While I agree it's none of their business, the form I was required to fill out does include the fact that the money is going to Thailand. I'll attach the document so you can see what I mean:

International Outbound Wire Request.pdf

[beachproperty]

Take heart in the fact that the longer it takes you to figure out how to transfer your money to Thailand you will be getting more Baht for dollar.

Last week....33.9 .....today 34.2

[Pib]

Your whole problem is saying the wire is an international transfer, but technically and legally it is not since your are routing the funds via the Bangkok Bank "NY" branch....it's as if the NY branch is your bank...therefore its a domestic transfer.

Since it appears you only want to do a "Call In" tansfer vs doing it online, you should simply being saying your want to do a domestic wire transfer to your bank which is Bankgok Bank "New YorK" (get their address from the Bangkok Bank website in case they ask for the address) and then you give your account number which is actually your account number here in Thailand. Make no mention of your Thailand-based Bangkok Bank branch. That exactly what happens when you do in online...but if you do it over the phone and say it's an international transfer you have brought on and will continue to bring on the problem you experiencing. What don't you just do it online? Let the phone gather dust.

[Issanman]

Go online to your TD Ameritrade account.

Set up transfer to Bangkok Bank New York using their routing number: 026008691

Use your Thai Bangkok Bank account number.

Job done.

No need to call uncooperative clowns on telephone.

[TheAppletons]

Well, the TD representative said, incorrectly or not that they won't wire money if the intended destination is Thailand. Sending the money to Bangkok Bank in New York while certainly could end up going to Thailand, doesn't have to end up going to Thailand. And TD worrying about what you intend to do with your money is not relevant. I think the TD rep is just making some assumptions about what the TD policy is.

While I agree it's none of their business, the form I was required to fill out does include the fact that the money is going to Thailand. I'll attach the document so you can see what I mean:

International Outbound Wire Request.pdf

Again, that's for a wire transfer....which is not what you want. You want a domestic ACH transfer to Bangkok Bank New York.

[Pib]

Well, the TD representative said, incorrectly or not that they won't wire money if the intended destination is Thailand. Sending the money to Bangkok Bank in New York while certainly could end up going to Thailand, doesn't have to end up going to Thailand. And TD worrying about what you intend to do with your money is not relevant. I think the TD rep is just making some assumptions about what the TD policy is.

While I agree it's none of their business, the form I was required to fill out does include the fact that the money is going to Thailand. I'll attach the document so you can see what I mean:

International Outbound Wire Request.pdf

Again, that's for a wire transfer....which is not what you want. You want a domestic ACH transfer to Bangkok Bank New York.

You can accomplish a domestic transfer via "wire" also....it's probably just costs more than a free/low cost ACH transfer based on the fee schedule I've seen at banks I use. After writing that sentence I decided to google TDAmertrade's fee schedule and a standard outgoing wire transfer (domestic or international) costs $25....but if you using TDAmertrade Apex it's free....maybe Apex is some premium/high dollar account...I don't know. I expect TDAmertrade's online ACH transfer is free/much lower cost like most banks and brokerage firms such as Schwab.

Weather it's a wire transfer or ACH transfer the same ABA/ACH routing number and bank account is still used....it's just a wire transfer is a faster service which goes via the realtime Federal Reserve Wire Network (FedWire) and financial companies like using a wire service since it garners them a nice, healthy transfer fee compared to low cost/free Federal Reserve Automated Clearing House (FedACH) service which is generally a batch transfer/low cost/free service.

Anyway, I googled a little bit more...if the OP prefers to do the call-in and fax-in form thing versus doing it online, attached is the "Domestic" Wire Transfer form. Be sure to identify the bank as "Bangkok Bank New York," use their ABA/ACH routing number, and your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account number. The transfer goes to the NY branch and they handled it from there in getting it into your local Bangkok Bank account.

TDA923.pdf

[Jingthing]

ACH transfer is NOT a wire and AT doesn't send it to Thailand, but if you tell them you are sending it to Thailand ... problem there.

No ... the OP should not call them again.

IF the OP has online access to his funds there, simply follow the instructions I posted before from Bangkok Bank and establish the ONLINE link between AT and BB and then attempt an ONLINE ACH transfer once the link is verified.

That is IF he can set up an ACH link there for ANY U.S. bank ... which works for pretty much all U.S. banks from their online services.

There is no reason this shouldn't work unless they have red flagged his account already and specifically blocked him for BB-NY.

Again, ACH is NOT a transfer to Thailand so if they have blocked to Thailand, they should not be blocking to New York.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

To add, regarding actual SWIFT international wires, it is rather disturbing news that a big company like that will not do any SWIFT transfers to Thailand. This is the first time I've every heard of a major financial institution in Thailand blocking transfers to Thailand, which is not exactly an economically insignificant country. Others, be warned about that! I wonder why.

Also, thanks to the OP for letting the forum readers here know about that.

Others may be depending on that company for their to Thailand SWIFT transfers.

Now I am curious if they have gone as far as blocking setting up online ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank New York ... I still doubt they would.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Jingthing

[Pib]

Nothing really new about financial companies/banks blocking transactions from/to certain countries regarding certain financial transactions....these restrictions have been around for years and varies widely depending on the financial company/bank.

Just google something along the lines of "debit card restricted countries" and you come up with a list a mile long of links to banks/financial companies showing their list of countries they restrictions regarding certain transactions....and those countries can even include places like western European countries like the UK. Now I know we are talking a funds transfer versus a debit card withdrawal but it's still dealing with moving money/getting money in country XYZ.

For example, here's the first three links of that mile long google list.

http://www.mymutualbank.com/atm-debit-card-restricted-countries.html (Thailand on this short list)

http://www.northshorebank.com/personal/debit-and-prepaid-cards/countries-where-debit-card-use-is-prohibited.aspx (Thailand not on this list but the UK is)

https://www.collinscu.org/accounts/checking/notice-of-blocked-countries-for-debit-transactions/ (Thailand not on the list but the UK and Australia are)

[Jingthing]

Correction:

This is the first time I've every heard of a major financial institution in the USA Thailand blocking transfers to Thailand, which is not exactly an economically insignificant country. Others, be warned about that! I wonder why.

---

I'm afraid I disagree about the blocking. Debit cards are one thing. SWIFT transfers are an international standard thing and blocking Thailand for SWIFT seems very unusual to me. Many U.S. expats don't have a backups in their U.S. banking. Suppose they are DEPENDING on SWIFT transfers and don't use Bangkok Bank.

Also for all we know, perhaps Tdameritrade is ALSO blocking ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank for all. That would be horrible news if that turns out to be a trend in the U.S.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Jingthing

[KamnanT]

TD Ameritrade won't only not wire (SWIFT) funds to Thailand, they won't accept any customers with addresses in Thailand. I've had an account with them (opened when I was living in Japan) since 1999. When I moved to Thailand in 2001, I changed my address with TDA - no problem. But in late 2010, I received a letter saying, essentially, "Thailand doesn't conform to international standards on combatting money-laundering and terrorist funding, so you have 30 days to close your open positions and empty your account." I gave them another address in Europe and said I resided there - then all was OK. I can still do ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank's New York branch, which end up in my local Bangkok Bank account the following day.

[Jingthing]

The address thing is not that unusual.

A lot of U.S. companies are forcing account closures now based on foreign address, especially brokerages.

Which is why I asked the OP to explain his address and phone situation with that company but he didn't respond.

Not I am wondering if this is all still about that, his address, as it's still hard to believe they won't do a SWIFT to Thailand for a person with U.S. address, phone, valid current U.S. I.D. and wiring to an account in their name.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Jingthing

[Pib]

Here's the U.S. State Department's 2014 List Major Money Laundering Countries....and a partial quote explaining the list...and the one of three classification a country can fall in.

http://www.state.gov/j/inl/rls/nrcrpt/2014/vol2/222471.htm

Thailand is listed in the "Jurisdictions of Primary Concern" along with a bunch of other countries. Even the US and UK are on the list probably because of funds flowing "from" those countries. Every financial company/bank will develop its own list of countries it doesn't want to do financial transactions with whether itstransfer of funds, use of debit/credit cards, etc. In some cases their country restrictions have work-arounds like having the initiate the transfer in person, having selected forms on file, calling to give your travel itinerary, etc. Now I'm not saying TDAmertrade uses the US State Dept list as their bible to develop their restricted country list...it's probably just one of many factors and other lists they take into consideration when developing their list.

Every year, U.S. officials from agencies with AML responsibilities assess the money laundering situations in approximately 200 jurisdictions. The review includes an assessment of the significance of financial transactions in the country’s financial institutions involving proceeds of serious crime, steps taken or not taken to address financial crime and money laundering, each jurisdiction’s vulnerability to money laundering, the conformance of its laws and policies to international standards, the effectiveness with which the government has acted, and the government’s political will to take needed actions.

The 2014 INCSR identifies money laundering priority jurisdictions and countries using a classification system that consists of three different categories: Jurisdictions of Primary Concern, Jurisdictions of Concern, and Other Jurisdictions Monitored.

[gk10002000]

Well, the TD representative said, incorrectly or not that they won't wire money if the intended destination is Thailand. Sending the money to Bangkok Bank in New York while certainly could end up going to Thailand, doesn't have to end up going to Thailand. And TD worrying about what you intend to do with your money is not relevant. I think the TD rep is just making some assumptions about what the TD policy is.

While I agree it's none of their business, the form I was required to fill out does include the fact that the money is going to Thailand. I'll attach the document so you can see what I mean:

International Outbound Wire Request.pdf

The form does not include any such information saying the money is going to Thailand. Sure the Bangkok Bank will be listed, but that should have been the New York location and NOT Thailand.