Owner keeps Deposit and asks to me to pay utilities?

[CapeThai]

A lot of good Thai Teachers on board here. Yes, everyone who think "Forget the deposit!!!" is a good teacher for Thais.

YOU teach them all how they can press out farangs because this stupid farangs accept every shit.

Go to the consumer protection board and tell what happen. They would help you to get your deposit back. Also you can hire a lawyer. If you pay 20.000 THB for got 150.000 THB back it is a better deal as NOTHING!!!

Agreed.... Even if he spend 50K with lawyers it with the effort. Don't let these thugs take you for a ride my friend. They do this to decent Farang because they get away with it every time, as we allow them to.

[KamalaRider]

Thats what I am thinking too.

But whats the worst that can happen if I simply ignore the calls / emails ?

I don't need (legal) drama over 5,000 baht if I already lost 150,000 baht on my deposit.

Just trying to figure out my options here. I think ignoring is the way to go but what if they want to involve the authorities and so on?

I am sure it happens 1000 times a day that foreigners get stiffed from their deposit or break the lease and the police doesn't care.

Firstly, listen to the people giving you the advise to go to the consumer protection board, it might benefit you getting most of it back, if you are going to stay in Thailand that is.

Don't accept losing 150 000 THB, which by the way would have been 75 000 at the most, if 2 months deposit, one month would have been last month's rent.

Forget about the 5 000 they are claiming from you, they won't go to court over 5 000, which could be going on for up to 6 years anyway, as it's a civil suit case.

Threaten with your lawyer but make sure it's not an empty threat, they love to play poker and they call all raises and would probably raise their own bluff again.

They make money for free on people like you DON'T let them.

All rental contracts are included with normal wear and tear, even if it doesn't say so directly in the contract, apart if it's excluded in text, so they won't be able to claim damages from you after you moved out, but in fact, the authorities are dead tired of scammer landlords and the bad rep Thailand is getting from extortionate landlords/agents and they could be on your side if you proceed the correct way.

The electric bill isn't a valid claim if you still have the last electric and water bills.

Edited July 16, 2015 by KamalaRider

[nabbie]

Sorry to hear your mishaps, it has happened to me a few years ago.

In order to negotiate the simple solution, you can stay your rented apartment for extra two months without paying anything. So the rents for two months will be detucted from your deposit.

That is a possible option but I dont know if it will suit you or not.

[misterphil]

This happened to us a couple of years ago.

You can get your deposit back.

1. You go to the police station and they will issue you a letter stating that the landlord is to return your deposit. They will contact the landlord for you and summoned him to pay back the deposit. 500 baht is what the police charge to do this.

2. Get a lawyer to back you up in case it goes any further than the police. 5,000 for this service.

3. Get a builder if the landlord is saying that there's damage to the property. Our Ex landlady was saying that the True Visions satellite dish had caused rust marks, and where we removed our AC's the finish wasn't so good. They wanted to keep 56,000 baht deposit for these 2 issues, and the builder said no more than 4,000 for the work. The builder didnt want anything for assessing this, but my wife gave him 1,000 for his time.

4. All parties met at the property and 48,000 baht was returned.

The owners of the house were fuming. Thai lady and a Belgian man who run a "dodgy" estate agency in East Pattaya had obviously been keeping deposits before.

There are people out there like yourself that think, oh well never mind, but dont. Fight for your deposit and get it back. Its your money not these thieving gypsy bastards.

[misterphil]

A lot of good Thai Teachers on board here. Yes, everyone who think "Forget the deposit!!!" is a good teacher for Thais.

YOU teach them all how they can press out farangs because this stupid farangs accept every shit.

Go to the consumer protection board and tell what happen. They would help you to get your deposit back. Also you can hire a lawyer. If you pay 20.000 THB for got 150.000 THB back it is a better deal as NOTHING!!!

Agreed.... Even if he spend 50K with lawyers it with the effort. Don't let these thugs take you for a ride my friend. They do this to decent Farang because they get away with it every time, as we allow them to.

They didnt do it to me. See my post #34

Fight for your deposit.

[HerbalEd]

Stonewall them. They won't spend money to prosecute.

[SOTIRIOS]

...it all started when you agreed to the rental amount.....

[Thunderbirds20]

It must have been quite the house to have paid 150,000 baht deposit! Did you stay to the end of the lease term? If so, you are entitled to get your deposit back, less the cost of any repairs and outstanding bills. Go to a lawyer and sue for your money back.

They can not keep your deposit and force you to pay outstanding bills!

[GOLDBUGGY]

I would just tell them to take it out of your deposit and any small damages and give you back the rest. Tell them you are considering legal action. Many of these guys I understand don't pay taxes, which they are required to do, so they don't want to get involved either.

If you are concerned about some kind of back lash then just tell them to take it out of the damage deposit as this is what that is for. I have been crewed twice on my damage deposit but not near as much as you have. Lucky for me I don't rent anymore.

[NoshowJones]

Thats what I am thinking too.

But whats the worst that can happen if I simply ignore the calls / emails ?

I don't need (legal) drama over 5,000 baht if I already lost 150,000 baht on my deposit.

Just trying to figure out my options here. I think ignoring is the way to go but what if they want to involve the authorities and so on?

I am sure it happens 1000 times a day that foreigners get stiffed from their deposit or break the lease and the police doesn't care.

Tell the police they can keep 50.000Bt from the 150.000Bt deposit, if they get it back.

[NoshowJones]

2 months deposit is normal for a furnished property, in this case that happens to be 150k, but all things are relative. It can often be more devastating for a man on a low budget who rents a 10k per month property and loses a 20k deposit. The OP stated clearly that he already wrote off the deposit, so the question is simply should he worry about bills. The short answer is no.

What about the principle?

[Jonmarleesco]

glad you can walk away from 150k.

i have never lost a deposit in 18 years of renting in thailand.

but, up to you.

Never lost a deposit in 18 years of renting in Thailand. You must be very much in the minority.

[Kannikapor88]

My Thaiwife refuse to rent from a Thai owner - Too mutt risk for scam and no law she say ... Probably right about that

Hope it pans out for you and the 150,000B

[Straight8]

2 months deposit is normal for a furnished property, in this case that happens to be 150k, but all things are relative. It can often be more devastating for a man on a low budget who rents a 10k per month property and loses a 20k deposit. The OP stated clearly that he already wrote off the deposit, so the question is simply should he worry about bills. The short answer is no.

Strangely as another poster said, he is more worried about the 5,000 baht utility bills rather than the 150,000 baht deposit.

Clearly, providing what the OP says is the truth and no more than just a couple of holes in the wall, this is another case of a blatant rip-off attempt. News does spread quickly of how easy it is to rip-off the stupid farang. Simply don't pay back the deposit and they just walk away. In this case it seems this is what the landlord is trying to do and is using the holes in the wall as his excuse.

Seriously, you could pepper the place with a gatlun gun, and still have change after repairs.

However, the OP seems like he has deep pockets and is prepared to walk away from the 150k deposit. If so, you have nothing to worry about over the 5,000 utility bill. They are using scare tactics, to blindside you in an attempt for you to just walk away from the whole thing and they get to fleece you for 150k.

Man, don't give in.. fight it. You will at worst case get at least half back, but walking away just lines up the next poor sod who rents out his place.

[richardt1808]

Hi,

I took one of my Landlords to court for a measly 20,000 deposit which they didn't want to return. The Lawyer cost me 10,000; and although it was half of what I was owed, the satisfaction of having the judge deliver the verdict and then being able to watch the stingy bastards counting out the cash in front of the court was worth a million bucks.

See a lawyer and sue. They cannot deduct anything for normal wear and tear and if they don't have receipts or proof that they actually incurred real costs to repair your 'damages', then they have to return the full deposit to you, less any unpaid utilities.

Good luck

Edited July 16, 2015 by richardt1808

[KittenKong]

I took one of my Landlords to court for a measly 20,000 deposit which they didn't want to return. The Lawyer cost me 10,000; and although it was half of what I was owed, the satisfaction of having the judge deliver the verdict and then being able to watch the stingy bastards counting out the cash in front of the court was worth a million bucks.

See a lawyer and sue. They cannot deduct anything for normal wear and tear and if they don't have receipts or proof that they actually incurred real costs to repair your 'damages', then they have to return the full deposit to you, less any unpaid utilities.

As far as I know anyone who lives near a "fast-track" tourist court can do this without a lawyer. And, as I pointed out earlier, one can also approach the consumer protection office which is also free.

Seems like a much better solution to me. Lawyers are like STDs: to be avoided whenever possible.

[jerojero]

If you can afford 75,000 monthly rent, you obviously got more money than most. Suck it up and pay it. If you genuinely gave up your 150k, then another 5 ain't worth the trouble to even write it on this forum, let alone involve lawyers! Fight the big fights, 5K for you likely a pittance. And as Bill Gates once told a high school graduation class, "Life isn't fair, get used to it"

[HooHaa]

glad you can walk away from 150k.

i have never lost a deposit in 18 years of renting in thailand.

but, up to you.

Alright smarty pants

Bet you have never caught your pecker in your zip as well

nope, done that for sure. hurt like <deleted>.

generally the land lord folds, especially if they are not reporting the income on rent and things start to get official.

Edited July 16, 2015 by HooHaa

[HooHaa]

glad you can walk away from 150k.

i have never lost a deposit in 18 years of renting in thailand.

but, up to you.

Never lost a deposit in 18 years of renting in Thailand. You must be very much in the minority.

no to be honest, i cannot think of a single one of my friends who has had this issue. but i have rented only in Bangkok on recommendation and places in the 30 - 60k range. sorry, but when you have proper documentation or the rental agreement all the visas and work permits in order and have carefully chosen your building and stayed out the term of your rental agreement, this shit doesn't really happen.

[blackcab]

Hi,

I took one of my Landlords to court for a measly 20,000 deposit which they didn't want to return. The Lawyer cost me 10,000; and although it was half of what I was owed, the satisfaction of having the judge deliver the verdict and then being able to watch the stingy bastards counting out the cash in front of the court was worth a million bucks.

See a lawyer and sue. They cannot deduct anything for normal wear and tear and if they don't have receipts or proof that they actually incurred real costs to repair your 'damages', then they have to return the full deposit to you, less any unpaid utilities.

Good luck

The landlord doesn't need receipts for work done to withold part or all of a deposit. It's up to the judgement of the landlord how much they withold. If the tenant is unhappy with that their recourse is to go to Court.

Not all landlords are bad. I personally authorise the return of deposits for our company's tenants, and in the vast majority of cases that's for 100% of the deposit and the money is transferred within 2 or 3 working days of the tenant moving out. If it makes any difference the company is 100% owned by Thai shareholders.

[nithisa78]

Thats what I am thinking too.

But whats the worst that can happen if I simply ignore the calls / emails ?

I don't need (legal) drama over 5,000 baht if I already lost 150,000 baht on my deposit.

Just trying to figure out my options here. I think ignoring is the way to go but what if they want to involve the authorities and so on?

I am sure it happens 1000 times a day that foreigners get stiffed from their deposit or break the lease and the police doesn't care.

I think ignoring is also the way to go. I'd go that way as soon as I sent this whatever they are the 5000bh.

Its chump change and you're already out a day's pay.

[PattayaPhom]

This is a perfect example of why playing an exorbitant deposit is just stupid. Two months rent makes send if it's a 10-20,000 baht rent. But for that money, they can afford the plasterer to plug those holes, paint the entire house, etc. Walk away! And don't be so stupid yourself on the next place. Negotiate a lower amount.

In fact, the more expensive the property the larger the deposit will be. At 75K a month, I would imagine it would be quite easy to walk away with at least 150K of white goods etc. Its not uncommon for 3 months deposit required on luxury properties.

[spidermike007]

Find out where the owner lives and show up at his home. Hassle him like a fly in rice. Do not let this go. It amounts to extortion and felony theft. He is a crook. Do not let them get away with this, whatever you do.

[Keesters]

They've screwed you on the deposit and you've let them get away with that. They see you as an easy touch and are trying to screw you even more. Do you like being screwed?

[gemguy]

Thats what I am thinking too.

But whats the worst that can happen if I simply ignore the calls / emails ?

I don't need (legal) drama over 5,000 baht if I already lost 150,000 baht on my deposit.

Just trying to figure out my options here. I think ignoring is the way to go but what if they want to involve the authorities and so on?

I am sure it happens 1000 times a day that foreigners get stiffed from their deposit or break the lease and the police doesn't care.

Yes.sir ...there is always the possibility they will hound you till death.

I would ignore them and if and when they do start to hound you all the time I would tell them you are "so sorly" .."vely busy"..... and I will come see you next week and come and pay.....

Later when they call you again, then tell them so sorry I am meaning to pay ...I will come see you next week.

And on and on and on...like that.

Meantime change your phone number ( Thai style ) and change your mailing address and email address ( Thai Style ) and just fade away so no one knows where you are including changing your bank account...( Thai Style )

Cheers

[SantiSuk]

Hell, I paid less deposit than that when I had a yuppie (remember them?) flat 50 metres from Tower Bridge in Central London costing GBP 2,500 a month in rent. At least I knew it would be paid back and it was.

What were you thinking agreeing to that?

[timendres]

When you rent a property you don't put holes in walls and then leave them for the landlord to fix, You could have a least had them fixed before leaving or bought a small tub if filler (Bosney) and do it yourself. If you want to hang pictures would't it be simple courtesy and respectful to get permission first from the owner of the property. If every renter were to put holes wherever they wished he wouldn't have a nice property when they leave. I think it goes without saying that whatever bills you build up ...you should be the one to pay them.

Your deposit seems very high, does it include first two months rent in advance.

Holes from hanging items on the wall are par for the course. So much so, that my current lease agreement specifically spells out the cost of repairing them when I vacate - 200 baht per hole. Of course, the renter can choose to repair them himself before leaving, but not everyone is a handyman, and some people will just make the problem worse, so it is best left for the landlord to handle as he prefers and just deduct from the deposit.

[shirtless]

Dont pay it leave the dishonest owner to pay they are ripping you off , never pay 2 months deposit the big problem is your landlord had no intention of giving it back.

[dean008]

200-500 baht to fix the holes as described.

I rent out a couple of condos and can assure you that a bit of filler would not be sufficient a solution.

If you had a new house/condo/whatever and rented it for a year and got it back with holes in the wall, I suspect any reasonable person would want the holes repairing and if the repair was not invisible the entire wall re painted. I know I would

The damage to the wall you describe would not be more than 200-500 baht to repair in Thailand.

You should have taken many pictures of the place before you vacated to prove it's condition, but I'm sure this is now too late.

I'd write a letter to the owner demanding your deposit back explaining whatever damage you see should be deducted from your deposit and also point out the dates for the utility bills comparing them to when you moved out. He has given you copies of the bills, yes? If the bills cover one or two days of you being in there then prorate the bills for what you owe.

Tell him if he persists in bothering you then you will take him to court for your deposit back which will force him to hire a lawyer and waste money. Also, as another poster said, tell him to take the money for the utilities out of your deposit if you are willing to walk away from the deposit.

The point is to put all this (your side, your point-of-view) in writing and send it with tracking and signature receipt for your records in case he is stupid enough to come after you.

Let him try to make counter-claims and prove it. IF you can find a good lawyer then the Thai legal system is not usually biased against the falang...at least from my reading over 6 years. The problem is finding a good lawyer...there are many bad ones.

[casualbiker]

200-500 baht to fix the holes as described.

I rent out a couple of condos and can assure you that a bit of filler would not be sufficient a solution.

If you had a new house/condo/whatever and rented it for a year and got it back with holes in the wall, I suspect any reasonable person would want the holes repairing and if the repair was not invisible the entire wall re painted. I know I would

The damage to the wall you describe would not be more than 200-500 baht to repair in Thailand.

You should have taken many pictures of the place before you vacated to prove it's condition, but I'm sure this is now too late.

I'd write a letter to the owner demanding your deposit back explaining whatever damage you see should be deducted from your deposit and also point out the dates for the utility bills comparing them to when you moved out. He has given you copies of the bills, yes? If the bills cover one or two days of you being in there then prorate the bills for what you owe.

Tell him if he persists in bothering you then you will take him to court for your deposit back which will force him to hire a lawyer and waste money. Also, as another poster said, tell him to take the money for the utilities out of your deposit if you are willing to walk away from the deposit.

The point is to put all this (your side, your point-of-view) in writing and send it with tracking and signature receipt for your records in case he is stupid enough to come after you.

Let him try to make counter-claims and prove it. IF you can find a good lawyer then the Thai legal system is not usually biased against the falang...at least from my reading over 6 years. The problem is finding a good lawyer...there are many bad ones.

Would you charge 150,000 baht for it?