Visa extension based on marriage at Jomtien - witnesses needed

[Time Traveller]

I've never required a witness but the whole idea of asking one of my neighbours to take a day off work (is immigration going explain to the their boss and pay for the day's salary?) is crossing the line of what is reasonable and what is unreasonable.

But the stupid thing is, if immigration suspect the marriage is a sham, then how would a witness change that since the witness could be in on the scam as well?

Therefore, you can only draw the conclusion these requests are designed to make it difficult for everyone. It's not designed to weed out the sham marriages at all.

[Stevemercer]

You lot are lucky at Pattaya. At Khon Kaen I had to supply 2 witnesses to the local council equivalent to get a form requested by Immigration (it is all in Thai and I'm not sure what it says, but I had to sign it along with my wife, the witnesses and local government officers). I then had to take 2 different witnesses to the Khon Kaen Immigration Office living in the same local government area and with blue books and ID cards. This wasn't as easy as it sounds as most of our friends are in different areas or do not have blue books.

Two immigration officers came around for a site visit last week. We were away on the day, but they did come back when we returned. We had to produce the same witnesses and copies of their documents again during the visit.

Hopefully I'll be able to collect my marriage extension when the 60 day investigation period is finished. I've changed from my previous retirement extension because I've spent half of my previous 800,000 Baht required for retirement.

Anyway, I guess there is always somebody worse off, but there is also somebody better off! Good luck.

[Liquorice]

I did my 6th renewal last month. We took a witness. I asked the usual lady if she wanted to speak with him, and she asked why I had brought him. I explained that I understood that a witness was now needed, and we had, in fact, phoned to ask, and were told that a witness was necessary. She told me that, as we have been married for 6 years, had a "blue book" with both of our names in it, a witness wasn't necessary !

I would go for the extension as early as possible ( 30 days before it expires ?), and see what happens. If they insist on a witness, you have a month to arrange it.

A bit off topic but when was it possible for a foreigner to have his name included in the tabien baan? I have been told by officials on several occasions that this is not possible so have applied for a yellow house book.

The exception is when the foreigner has PR (permanent residency) status, then you can be added to a blue book.

[aronp1]

MJCM, thanks for that thread. I actually commented on that thread back in February, so did you it appears. I think it was that thread that made me think I must check out what is going on with this nearer the time of my renewal in August.

No problem, back then I was still living in Pattaya but not anymore and I have moved to an area with an even more difficult immigration, so my extension days are over and I just went with my wife to Laos and got a Multiple Entry Non-O with no hassle. But this one suits us also as we are frequent travellers and leaving every 90 day is no major issue for us

Unfortunately continuing on that route you will never be able to apply for PR status and make the visa game a thing of the past. That is a question of curiosity I have for OP. You said you have been married for 13yrs, why haven't you applied for PR and retire from the visa game? If you could have done that after your 3rd year of marriage, you could be applying for your citizenship now. Like I said, just curious.

[MJCM]

MJCM, thanks for that thread. I actually commented on that thread back in February, so did you it appears. I think it was that thread that made me think I must check out what is going on with this nearer the time of my renewal in August.

No problem, back then I was still living in Pattaya but not anymore and I have moved to an area with an even more difficult immigration, so my extension days are over and I just went with my wife to Laos and got a Multiple Entry Non-O with no hassle. But this one suits us also as we are frequent travellers and leaving every 90 day is no major issue for us

Unfortunately continuing on that route you will never be able to apply for PR status and make the visa game a thing of the past. That is a question of curiosity I have for OP. You said you have been married for 13yrs, why haven't you applied for PR and retire from the visa game? If you could have done that after your 3rd year of marriage, you could be applying for your citizenship now. Like I said, just curious.

I for one am not interested in PR as I am from one of those countries which doesn't allow dual nationalities and thus would lose my passport, and I am not doing that. And also getting PR is not that easy, how many years you have to wait, how many hoops you have to jump etc etc. Edited July 17, 2015 by MJCM

[misterphil]

I took a female friend of me and my wifes and they didnt even speak to her. Just glanced at her when they asked if we'd brought a witness.

Poor thing was sat there for 2 hours. Good job she had her iPhone with her.

[ubonjoe]

MJCM, thanks for that thread. I actually commented on that thread back in February, so did you it appears. I think it was that thread that made me think I must check out what is going on with this nearer the time of my renewal in August.

No problem, back then I was still living in Pattaya but not anymore and I have moved to an area with an even more difficult immigration, so my extension days are over and I just went with my wife to Laos and got a Multiple Entry Non-O with no hassle. But this one suits us also as we are frequent travellers and leaving every 90 day is no major issue for us

Unfortunately continuing on that route you will never be able to apply for PR status and make the visa game a thing of the past. That is a question of curiosity I have for OP. You said you have been married for 13yrs, why haven't you applied for PR and retire from the visa game? If you could have done that after your 3rd year of marriage, you could be applying for your citizenship now. Like I said, just curious.

You have to be on extension of stay for 3 years, have a work permit and 3 years of tax payments to prove your income to apply for PR or citizenship. If not working you will not be able to apply for either.one.

[dsfbrit]

I thought about PR some years ago, but I had no intention of working so it was not an option.

To be honest, filling in the same forms each year to do the extension based on marriage is hardly a difficult task, even adding the daft new check they add in now and then. This new requirement is different though, as it involves getting someone else involved in the process - and someone who knows me. If it were a one off, maybe I could stomach it, but after 13 years of marriage, I have no desire to take someone down to immigration each year to verify we are married. It is demeaning even by Thai immigration standards.

So now I have one company pension and in a couple of years time a couple of other small pensions, then I can do the retirement extension by transferring just 200K baht. So the retirement option actually works out cheaper and easier than the extension based on marriage.

I am off now to search TV to see how I get the pension verified by the British Embassy - I am told that is a simple effort and by post - here's hoping!

Edited July 18, 2015 by dsfbrit

[ubonjoe]

No need to search for income letter info. Info here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/440413/Pension_01.07.15._Master.pdf

If immigration was to ask for a witness for my 8th extension which I will be doing soon my wife of almost 14 years would be the one raising hell with immigration about it not me.

We have never had a witness or home visit. Just letters from the local police that my wife took back to immigration a few days after they accepted my first application.

[dsfbrit]

Thanks very much Ubonjoe, I have just got back home and was going to look for this now.

Perhaps I could take your wife along instead of mine, as my wife is much too timid to ever argue with anyone at immigration:)

Thanks again for all your help with this and many other questions I have had over the years.

[WorriedNoodle]

Sorry if I missed it in a previous post, but my wife and I only needed a witness to extend the Non Imm O because we were staying at address used for application in another family persons house (wife's name wasn't in blue book). A Thai can only be in one blue book at a time and my wife had her name in a book of house we kept elsewhere. Had she been in blue book at same house I used to apply with we would not have needed witness. The witness could be anyone of reputable status outside our family with there own house reg papers in the same village.

Since then wife has same blue book address as on my application so a witness have never been required.

[MJCM]

Sorry if I missed it in a previous post, but my wife and I only needed a witness to extend the Non Imm O because we were staying at address used for application in another family persons house (wife's name wasn't in blue book). A Thai can only be in one blue book at a time and my wife had her name in a book of house we kept elsewhere. Had she been in blue book at same house I used to apply with we would not have needed witness. The witness could be anyone of reputable status outside our family with there own house reg papers in the same village.

Since then wife has same blue book address as on my application so a witness have never been required.

So what you are saying is, that when you live on the address of where the housebook of your wife is you don't need a witness ?

If so, for Pattaya that is not the case as my address on the application was the same as my wife's housebook (she owns the house) and still we needed a witness. IMO and to the best of my knowledge a witness is only required (for Jomtien Immigration that is) if you are married and don't have kids, if you have kids a witness isn't required.

[connda]

After nine years of marriage, I would ask my wife to explain to the immigration official exactly what she will be doing after I buy a ticket and leave this screwed up country for good leaving her with a house and no income. Then they can hash it out Thai to Thai. Each year I get progressively more tired of this xenophobiac BS.

Edited July 18, 2015 by connda

[connda]

MJCM, thanks for that thread. I actually commented on that thread back in February, so did you it appears. I think it was that thread that made me think I must check out what is going on with this nearer the time of my renewal in August.

No problem, back then I was still living in Pattaya but not anymore and I have moved to an area with an even more difficult immigration, so my extension days are over and I just went with my wife to Laos and got a Multiple Entry Non-O with no hassle. But this one suits us also as we are frequent travellers and leaving every 90 day is no major issue for us

Unfortunately continuing on that route you will never be able to apply for PR status and make the visa game a thing of the past. That is a question of curiosity I have for OP. You said you have been married for 13yrs, why haven't you applied for PR and retire from the visa game? If you could have done that after your 3rd year of marriage, you could be applying for your citizenship now. Like I said, just curious.

The last time I checked you needed a work permit to apply for a PR. Seeing that I'm not currently working, have no WP, than the PR is out. Also, it seems that PRs are something that are much easier to obtain if your residence is in BKK and not in an upcountry province where the immigration office flatly said that they don't process PR applications. You are basically a tolerated nuisance. I spoke to a well know legal office with branch offices in Chiang Mai, and I couldn't even get an answer from them.

[connda]

I did my 6th renewal last month. We took a witness. I asked the usual lady if she wanted to speak with him, and she asked why I had brought him. I explained that I understood that a witness was now needed, and we had, in fact, phoned to ask, and were told that a witness was necessary. She told me that, as we have been married for 6 years, had a "blue book" with both of our names in it, a witness wasn't necessary !

I would go for the extension as early as possible ( 30 days before it expires ?), and see what happens. If they insist on a witness, you have a month to arrange it.

A bit off topic but when was it possible for a foreigner to have his name included in the tabien baan? I have been told by officials on several occasions that this is not possible so have applied for a yellow house book.

The exception is when the foreigner has PR (permanent residency) status, then you can be added to a blue book.

I have my own Yellow Book. Why the hell do I need to be in the Blue Book. My Tabian Baan is a Thai legal document no different than my families Tabian Baan. Sounds more like a shake down for tea money. Back to corruption.

[paz]

I have my own Yellow Book. Why the hell do I need to be in the Blue Book. My Tabian Baan is a Thai legal document no different than my families Tabian Baan. Sounds more like a shake down for tea money. Back to corruption.

Not a shakedown, as you can't have it by just paying. A yellow house book is something for foreigners only, and is not very useful.

[sandyf]

You lot are lucky at Pattaya. At Khon Kaen I had to supply 2 witnesses to the local council equivalent to get a form requested by Immigration (it is all in Thai and I'm not sure what it says, but I had to sign it along with my wife, the witnesses and local government officers). I then had to take 2 different witnesses to the Khon Kaen Immigration Office living in the same local government area and with blue books and ID cards. This wasn't as easy as it sounds as most of our friends are in different areas or do not have blue books.

Two immigration officers came around for a site visit last week. We were away on the day, but they did come back when we returned. We had to produce the same witnesses and copies of their documents again during the visit.

Hopefully I'll be able to collect my marriage extension when the 60 day investigation period is finished. I've changed from my previous retirement extension because I've spent half of my previous 800,000 Baht required for retirement.

Anyway, I guess there is always somebody worse off, but there is also somebody better off! Good luck.

I went to Sri Ratcha last week to redo my marriage extension and was told that they had now adopted a similar policy. They also said that photographs were no longer required, immigration would do them on the home visit,

I changed the application to retirement and got it there and then.

Change can be like a cancer, start in a small part of the system and spread.

[paz]

As more people now seem to be using sham marriages to get around the recent visa/visa run crackdowns

Please be more explicit. Have you seen cases of fake marriage? Or it is the justification you got from Immigration itself.

[Maestro]

A bit off topic but when was it possible for a foreigner to have his name included in the tabien baan? I have been told by officials on several occasions that this is not possible so have applied for a yellow house book.

For every person entered in a house registration book, the names of the parents are are indicated. The person who posted that his name is in the book failed to mention that his name is shown as the parent of a Thai national entered in that book. This is not meant as proof that these parents also live at the same address.

When you apply for your yellow book, you will see that you will be asked for your parents' names, in That script, for this purpose. Make sure to give the same Thai spelling, also for your own name, as was used on the marriage registration KR.2

[tropo]

If I have to do the witness 'thing' then I won't bother with the extension based on marriage. I will change to the extension based on retirement. Ubonjoe above says I don't need to season the money if it is combined with a pension, so I will have time to do that and get away from this increasingly problematical extension based on marriage.

If I was in your shoes I'd take the easiest, most practical way out and not take these regulations so personally...

I would rather suck it up and get a witness than travelling to your Embassy in Bangkok and pay the exorbitant fee you guys are charged by your Embassy... and mess around with money transfers.

We already do a lot of sucking up to retire in Thailand, married or not - does doing it one more time really matter?

[TommyUK1960]

So if one has a problem getting a witness, What can you do or what will the Immigration officer do?

I will be doing my first Marriage extension, We have no children, Lived together for 6 years, House is in her name, She has my family name on all documents like house book and driving licence.

Marriage was at Banglamung office.

Edited July 18, 2015 by TommyUK1960

[ubonjoe]

I went to Sri Ratcha last week to redo my marriage extension and was told that they had now adopted a similar policy. They also said that photographs were no longer required, immigration would do them on the home visit,

I changed the application to retirement and got it there and then.

Change can be like a cancer, start in a small part of the system and spread.

Sri Ratcha immigration is under Chonburi i(AKA Jomtien) immigration and have apparently been directed to apply the same requirements being discussed in this topic.

[sandyf]

I went to Sri Ratcha last week to redo my marriage extension and was told that they had now adopted a similar policy. They also said that photographs were no longer required, immigration would do them on the home visit,

I changed the application to retirement and got it there and then.

Change can be like a cancer, start in a small part of the system and spread.

Sri Ratcha immigration is under Chonburi i(AKA Jomtien) immigration and have apparently been directed to apply the same requirements being discussed in this topic.

Sri Ratch and Jomtien have always had separate requirements, Sri Ratcha has always required witnesses, been there and done that.

Last week I posted that they now required witnesses for first and second applications and your comment was that it was nothing new.

[WorriedNoodle]

Sorry if I missed it in a previous post, but my wife and I only needed a witness to extend the Non Imm O because we were staying at address used for application in another family persons house (wife's name wasn't in blue book). A Thai can only be in one blue book at a time and my wife had her name in a book of house we kept elsewhere. Had she been in blue book at same house I used to apply with we would not have needed witness. The witness could be anyone of reputable status outside our family with there own house reg papers in the same village.

Since then wife has same blue book address as on my application so a witness have never been required.

So what you are saying is, that when you live on the address of where the housebook of your wife is you don't need a witness ?

If so, for Pattaya that is not the case as my address on the application was the same as my wife's housebook (she owns the house) and still we needed a witness. IMO and to the best of my knowledge a witness is only required (for Jomtien Immigration that is) if you are married and don't have kids, if you have kids a witness isn't required.

Yes, that was case for me but I didn't try in Pattaya. I needed a witness when staying in wifes parents home in southern Thailand and before that I we didn't need witnesses when staying in wifes house in Bangkok. That was three years ago when we needed a witness, Now we have kids and stay in wifes house so no witness needed as everyone says. As you say now need a witness in Pattaya without kids.

[connda]

If this happens, I'm leaving. Think - camel's back - and 'straw'.

Edited July 20, 2015 by connda

[dsfbrit]

connda, I know how you feel.

I have never really bothered about the other (usually daft) changes they have made to this extension over the last 13 years. I have just done what they asked and shook my head quietly in disbelief.

However, this is different, as it means getting other people involved in the process and people that have to know me as well. No thanks.

Luckily I can revert to a retirement extension if need be and if I go 30 days before the current extension expires, then I will still have time to move money over from abroad and get the letter showing my pension income.

Ubonjoe gave me a link to the letter I would need to send to the British Embassy to prove my pension income and the '10 working days' in that letter and sending over the money from the UK would take no more than 20 days even in the worst case scenario I would think.

Edited July 21, 2015 by dsfbrit

[connda]

No need to search for income letter info. Info here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/440413/Pension_01.07.15._Master.pdf

If immigration was to ask for a witness for my 8th extension which I will be doing soon my wife of almost 14 years would be the one raising hell with immigration about it not me.

We have never had a witness or home visit. Just letters from the local police that my wife took back to immigration a few days after they accepted my first application.

The first year we applied in Chiang Mai we supplied all the necessary documents, the village head came to the Amphur office to fill out a document stating I resided in the village that that document was witnessed by our Amphur officials, included in my document package is my personal Tabian Baan (Yellow), and they sent officials out to visit. The first year, I absolutely see no probably with doing this. But 5, 10, 15 years of marriage (in my case 8), yeah, it would be a problem. " You need to bring a village resident with ID and Blue Book from your village in SouthEast Lumphun Province with you to immigration in Chiang Mai. Of course I'd have to pay that person from taking a day off work. And like you Joe, it would be my wife raising holy hell (she ain't the shy type). Because this is purely harassment. And if this is the start of a new trend in nationalistic xenophobia, then sticking around may end up being problematic in many other ways too. <head shake> What do you really think this is all about?

Edited July 22, 2015 by connda

[dsfbrit]

Paz, I missed your question to me earlier about sham marriages. I have no idea where I got the notion this was about 'sham' marriages. I may have just (wrongly) made the jump from problems in my native England where sham marriages are a concern. What other reason is there for immigration to be doing this?

I mean, if this is not to spot sham marriages, then what IS it for?

Did I read in one of the posts here that I do not need those daft pictures of my wardrobe etc.. I have taken?

I must say, the retirement option is looking pretty good for next year, even if I 'tough it out' with this nonsense this year.

Edited July 23, 2015 by dsfbrit

[sandyf]

Paz, I missed your question to me earlier about sham marriages. I have no idea where I got the notion this was about 'sham' marriages. I may have just (wrongly) made the jump from problems in my native England where sham marriages are a concern. What other reason is there for immigration to be doing this?

I mean, if this is not to spot sham marriages, then what IS it for?

Did I read in one of the posts here that I do not need those daft pictures of my wardrobe etc.. I have taken?

I must say, the retirement option is looking pretty good for next year, even if I 'tough it out' with this nonsense this year.

Your reasoning is quite correct according to what an immigration officer told my wife, the emphasis being on childless marriages. The fact that many mature marriages are childless seems to have escaped them.

[dsfbrit]

sandyf, it seems logical really doesn't it, that if you are looking for sham marriages, then the most likely group would be those of us without kids.

Maybe I am doing the Jomtien immigration a disservice by thinking that when I go there on 4th August, they won't have the sense to realise that a 61 year old Englishman that has been married to his Thai wife for 13 years, living at the same address and visiting the same immigration centre (including when it was in central Pattaya) during that time, may actually not need major investigation into the marriage being a sham!

We shall see.

As a backup, a friend of mine who has a Thai wife who has relatives in the police force (not immigration sadly), will be shopping at the South Pattaya (Soi Bukao) market on Tuesday the 4th and they have offered to come down to immigration if necessary to be a witness or whatever. It is not far away, so they could be there within 30 minutes.

So I am going to go there without a witness and if I cannot get the extension then I can call my friend to come and help if need be. or just leave and do the retirement extension instead.

I suppose some may wonder why I don't just take them down as a witness anyway, I think it is simply that I find this new rule so insulting, that changing to the retirement option would be preferable to jumping through this particular hoop.

Edited July 23, 2015 by dsfbrit