Corrupt politicians should face jail and lifetime ban: NLA deputy chief

[scorecard]

Finally!

And please, when it's law, make it retroactive for (let's say) the previous 25 years ... that'll clear out ALL current Politicians and Thailand can start with a clean slate and perhaps for once move forward with people who DON'T only think of themselves.

Nominated for the best post of the month!

[brucec64]

Hard to argue against, isn't it? But we didn't need a junta to carry out this reform, PTP could well have done it, after they had passed their amnesty.

On second thoughts, not even then.

Didn't the junta just amend the interim constitution to allow for appointment of cabinet ministers with past political bans? They talk about stopping corruption but their actions seem to be quite the opposite.

[jayboy]

A laudable initiative. Let's start right at the very top. Let's have a close look at the wealth amassed by Uncle Too and his family.

Hold on, that's not allowed is it????

How many times does it have to be explained? Just because many of the generals running the country have huge fortunes completely unexplainable given their modest stipends, these are "good" and "educate" people so the normal rules don't apply and they should not be questioned about these matters ? In any case didn't you know it is an unviolable law that every time this question is asked the answer is always inherited wealth, rich wife, investment capability equal to that of Mr Warren Buffet,rapid appreciation in value of land holdings etc (strike out which does not apply).

On the other hand "bad" people - even those whose wealth is completely transparent and explicable - should be pursued without mercy.

Could you please nominate those "bad" people whose wealth is completely transparent and explicable being pursued without mercy? Or are they figments of an over-active imagination?

Well Yingluck Shinawatra is a high profile obvious "bad" person who is being harrassed notwithstanding there is zero question about the source of her wealth.

However my comment to which you refer was a final brief point incidental to my main criticism - which of course you completely ignore.

Sorry if it is against your rules to question your statements. While not at all accepting that Yingluk's declared wealth is untainted, and getting back to your main statement, you seem to be saying that a person's wealth should be of more interest than their actions in office (holding up Yingluk as an example).

OTOH both the proposer and the PTP person consulted are against retroactivity. Are you arguing for it, or blowing smoke to obscure one of the best proposals heard for many years?

Firstly your caveat on Yingluck has no justification at all.There is no evidence at all she is guilty of personal corruption.Please do not attempt to muddy the waters - even though this a side issue on this thread.

Moving to the main issue, you have completely misunderstood my point.I was making no comment at all on actions in office merely highlighting the disgusting hypocrisy now apparent in the current war on corruption.

I support any effort to reduce corruption but the approach should be comprehensive not selective, and certainly not politicised.

[halloween]

Hard to argue against, isn't it? But we didn't need a junta to carry out this reform, PTP could well have done it, after they had passed their amnesty.

On second thoughts, not even then.

Didn't the junta just amend the interim constitution to allow for appointment of cabinet ministers with past political bans? They talk about stopping corruption but their actions seem to be quite the opposite.

AFAIK they are both proposals, the current on by an individual member. Weren't those bans of 220 Thaksinist MPs widely criticised as being unfair group punishment?

[brucec64]

Hard to argue against, isn't it? But we didn't need a junta to carry out this reform, PTP could well have done it, after they had passed their amnesty.

On second thoughts, not even then.

Didn't the junta just amend the interim constitution to allow for appointment of cabinet ministers with past political bans? They talk about stopping corruption but their actions seem to be quite the opposite.

AFAIK they are both proposals, the current on by an individual member. Weren't those bans of 220 Thaksinist MPs widely criticised as being unfair group punishment?

AFAIK you are wrong. The amendment has already gone through.

But don't let the truth get in the way of your irrational fixation on the non elected junta government.

"The amendment in effect removes a ban on former office holders previously deprived of their political rights from serving as Cabinet members."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Premier-stays-mum-on-Cabinet-reshuffle-30264618.html

[halloween]

Firstly your caveat on Yingluck has no justification at all.There is no evidence at all she is guilty of personal corruption.Please do not attempt to muddy the waters - even though this a side issue on this thread.

Moving to the main issue, you have completely misunderstood my point.I was making no comment at all on actions in office merely highlighting the disgusting hypocrisy now apparent in the current war on corruption.

I support any effort to reduce corruption but the approach should be comprehensive not selective, and certainly not politicised.

Not coming from a particularly wealthy family, most of her wealth is from association with her brother, something she perjured herself about. I no more accept that as squeaky clean than I would the wealth of a mafia don's sister.

Perhaps you should read The Power and the Glory. The message is good, even if the messenger is flawed, and certainly better than any anti-corruption proposal emanating from the Thaksin camp ever.

"Look at the naughty generals" isn't support for any effort to reduce corruption.

[ginjag]

Finally!

And please, when it's law, make it retroactive for (let's say) the previous 25 years ... that'll clear out ALL current Politicians and Thailand can start with a clean slate and perhaps for once move forward with people who DON'T only think of themselves.

Problem being, 75% of Thais DO only think of themselves be truth known.

Take an average of persons being exploited by ordinary Thai families, Foreigners who trusted Thais, to learn afterwards how wrong they were to do it.

It seems to me that it runs from the farm to the heads of government.

[MZurf]

Finally!

And please, when it's law, make it retroactive for (let's say) the previous 25 years ... that'll clear out ALL current Politicians and Thailand can start with a clean slate and perhaps for once move forward with people who DON'T only think of themselves.

Problem being, 75% of Thais DO only think of themselves be truth known.

Take an average of persons being exploited by ordinary Thai families, Foreigners who trusted Thais, to learn afterwards how wrong they were to do it.

It seems to me that it runs from the farm to the heads of government.

OMG, I actually agree with you!

[lewy67]

The politicians are but small fish in this big pond or corruption. The top Army Officers, Police Officers and public servants from transport, education and agriculture leave the politicians for dead when it comes to unusual wealth obtained through corrupt means. They should be sacked, banned for life and jailed together with the politicians. Problem is they are good people and untouchable

[jayboy]

Firstly your caveat on Yingluck has no justification at all.There is no evidence at all she is guilty of personal corruption.Please do not attempt to muddy the waters - even though this a side issue on this thread.

Moving to the main issue, you have completely misunderstood my point.I was making no comment at all on actions in office merely highlighting the disgusting hypocrisy now apparent in the current war on corruption.

I support any effort to reduce corruption but the approach should be comprehensive not selective, and certainly not politicised.

Not coming from a particularly wealthy family, most of her wealth is from association with her brother, something she perjured herself about. I no more accept that as squeaky clean than I would the wealth of a mafia don's sister.

Perhaps you should read The Power and the Glory. The message is good, even if the messenger is flawed, and certainly better than any anti-corruption proposal emanating from the Thaksin camp ever.

"Look at the naughty generals" isn't support for any effort to reduce corruption.

The irony is that Thaksin's wealth was initially earned legitimately and certainly not out of line with the Sino Thai tycoons who generally oppose him.His real corruption was more to do with fixing the rules of the game to benefit himself.

You object to my exposing hypocrisy for reasons best known to yourself. My position is that corruption should be identified and punished wherever it is found, not as you seem to think only where it is politically expedient to do so.

[dageurreotype]

It should happen,but won't,even if it was passed,

it would be quickly changed by the next democratic,

but undoubtedly corrupt government.

regards Worgeordie

easy fix for that is to write certain laws into the constitution that need a referendum to change, like a special category, and the rest requiring 2/3 majority in the lower house to pass and must also pass the upper house - pretty simple stuff that would more or less eliminate abuse

Seriously? With their predilection for enforcing the gazillion laws already on the statute if and how they feel like it, what makes you think this would make any difference? It won't.

Edited July 19, 2015 by dageurreotype

[Red Queen]

"Start handing out 30 year prison sentences and see what happens to corruption after that."

Fully agree in principle, but it wouldn't work in practice because the courts, the NGO's and others who would make decisions are just as corrupt or more so and will not apply the law evenly and without fear or favour - such concepts are only for the stupid foreigners which Thailand has no time for. The only people that will face prosecution are those with red shirts. The coup had nothing to do with corruption or conflict or anything else lofty in principle. Prayuth was hired by Prem to get rid of another democratically elected government by undemocratic means to make sure that the hegemony of the 100 families continues uninterrupted. And of course, Prem would not do any such conspiratorial thing without their permission and support.

Everyone has and is entitled to their opinion, but my view is that this approaches irrefutable fact, and that anyone who disagrees just hasn't been paying attention or cannot add 2 and 2 together. Nothing is random, everything has a causation, and in Thailand, the assumption should be that the causation is neither particularly subtle, nor particularly complex nor particularly smart. Most of the politics is crude, unintelligent and based entirely on self-enrichment. And there are solid historical and cultural reasons why this should be so.

[than]

It's amazing to see that it is the same political group who is disagree with this !

[Tatsujin]

Finally!

And please, when it's law, make it retroactive for (let's say) the previous 25 years ... that'll clear out ALL current Politicians and Thailand can start with a clean slate and perhaps for once move forward with people who DON'T only think of themselves.

Nominated for the best post of the month!

I agree

[Tatsujin]

Finally!

And please, when it's law, make it retroactive for (let's say) the previous 25 years ... that'll clear out ALL current Politicians and Thailand can start with a clean slate and perhaps for once move forward with people who DON'T only think of themselves.

Problem being, 75% of Thais DO only think of themselves be truth known.

Take an average of persons being exploited by ordinary Thai families, Foreigners who trusted Thais, to learn afterwards how wrong they were to do it.

It seems to me that it runs from the farm to the heads of government.

More like 90+% I would say, but otherwise, yes, from the bottom to the top here.

[Tatsujin]

Firstly your caveat on Yingluck has no justification at all.There is no evidence at all she is guilty of personal corruption.Please do not attempt to muddy the waters - even though this a side issue on this thread.

Moving to the main issue, you have completely misunderstood my point.I was making no comment at all on actions in office merely highlighting the disgusting hypocrisy now apparent in the current war on corruption.

I support any effort to reduce corruption but the approach should be comprehensive not selective, and certainly not politicised.

Not coming from a particularly wealthy family, most of her wealth is from association with her brother, something she perjured herself about. I no more accept that as squeaky clean than I would the wealth of a mafia don's sister.

Perhaps you should read The Power and the Glory. The message is good, even if the messenger is flawed, and certainly better than any anti-corruption proposal emanating from the Thaksin camp ever.

"Look at the naughty generals" isn't support for any effort to reduce corruption.

The irony is that Thaksin's wealth was initially earned legitimately and certainly not out of line with the Sino Thai tycoons who generally oppose him.His real corruption was more to do with fixing the rules of the game to benefit himself.

You object to my exposing hypocrisy for reasons best known to yourself. My position is that corruption should be identified and punished wherever it is found, not as you seem to think only where it is politically expedient to do so.

"The irony is that Thaksin's wealth was initially earned legitimately" ...

Oh really? Are you ignoring the blackmail, favors, cronyism, unusual deaths, intimidation, jail terms for any of his competitors, who (at the top) he's in bed with and has been for decades etc that went hand in hand with how he made his wealth in the first place? And then the rewriting of laws later on to ensure he didn't pay tax on anything? ... the list goes on.

I suggest you do a little more research on the earlier days of Thaksin, you're misinformed. Speak to some Thai's (older ones) if you can't find the real story online, it's quite enlightening.

P.S. - those Sino Thai "tycoons" you mentioned, he's one of them too you know ...

[Down the rabbit hole]

"Oh really? Are you ignoring the blackmail, favors, cronyism, unusual deaths, intimidation, jail terms for any of his competitors, who (at the top) he's in bed with and has been for decades etc that went hand in hand with how he made his wealth in the first place? And then the rewriting of laws later on to ensure he didn't pay tax on anything? ... the list goes on."

Oh dear, another leg-biting Thaksin hater. Thaksin was a criminal, but in that respect he fitted in nicely with every other Thai who's worth more than 50m baht. They're all criminals, Thaksin just fell out of favour - principally because he was too popular.

So please, change the record, because the present crowd are just as dishonest and devoid of principle. How else could a talentless army drone amass 600,000,000 baht on a soldiers salary? Please try to take a wider view and for goodness sake, stop biting people's legs with the same tired old rants. Calm down and more people will listen.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Down the rabbit hole

[halloween]

The irony is that Thaksin's wealth was initially earned legitimately and certainly not out of line with the Sino Thai tycoons who generally oppose him.His real corruption was more to do with fixing the rules of the game to benefit himself.

You object to my exposing hypocrisy for reasons best known to yourself. My position is that corruption should be identified and punished wherever it is found, not as you seem to think only where it is politically expedient to do so.

Yeah right. Failed business ventures left him B50 million in debt, then came the police computer contract (nothing suspect about that, he just wrote the specs, and won the deal while his FIL was top cop), his crony deals with Chalerm, and then a Thai monopoly on the fastest growing business in the world.

BTW seems someone has done a whitewash on his wiki page. eg "AIS grew rapidly and became the largest mobile phone operator in Thailand." not a mention of it being the ONLY mobile phone operator in Thailand.

[halloween]

"Oh really? Are you ignoring the blackmail, favors, cronyism, unusual deaths, intimidation, jail terms for any of his competitors, who (at the top) he's in bed with and has been for decades etc that went hand in hand with how he made his wealth in the first place? And then the rewriting of laws later on to ensure he didn't pay tax on anything? ... the list goes on."

Oh dear, another leg-biting Thaksin hater. Thaksin was a criminal, but in that respect he fitted in nicely with every other Thai who's worth more than 50m baht. They're all criminals, Thaksin just fell out of favour - principally because he was too popular.

So please, change the record, because the present crowd are just as dishonest and devoid of principle. How else could a talentless army drone amass 600,000,000 baht on a soldiers salary? Please try to take a wider view and for goodness sake, stop biting people's legs with the same tired old rants. Calm down and more people will listen.

Every other Thai who's worth more than 50m baht isn't bribing his way into power so as to steal even more.

[jayboy]

Firstly your caveat on Yingluck has no justification at all.There is no evidence at all she is guilty of personal corruption.Please do not attempt to muddy the waters - even though this a side issue on this thread.

Moving to the main issue, you have completely misunderstood my point.I was making no comment at all on actions in office merely highlighting the disgusting hypocrisy now apparent in the current war on corruption.

I support any effort to reduce corruption but the approach should be comprehensive not selective, and certainly not politicised.

Not coming from a particularly wealthy family, most of her wealth is from association with her brother, something she perjured herself about. I no more accept that as squeaky clean than I would the wealth of a mafia don's sister.

Perhaps you should read The Power and the Glory. The message is good, even if the messenger is flawed, and certainly better than any anti-corruption proposal emanating from the Thaksin camp ever.

"Look at the naughty generals" isn't support for any effort to reduce corruption.

The irony is that Thaksin's wealth was initially earned legitimately and certainly not out of line with the Sino Thai tycoons who generally oppose him.His real corruption was more to do with fixing the rules of the game to benefit himself.

You object to my exposing hypocrisy for reasons best known to yourself. My position is that corruption should be identified and punished wherever it is found, not as you seem to think only where it is politically expedient to do so.

"The irony is that Thaksin's wealth was initially earned legitimately" ...

Oh really? Are you ignoring the blackmail, favors, cronyism, unusual deaths, intimidation, jail terms for any of his competitors, who (at the top) he's in bed with and has been for decades etc that went hand in hand with how he made his wealth in the first place? And then the rewriting of laws later on to ensure he didn't pay tax on anything? ... the list goes on.

I suggest you do a little more research on the earlier days of Thaksin, you're misinformed. Speak to some Thai's (older ones) if you can't find the real story online, it's quite enlightening.

P.S. - those Sino Thai "tycoons" you mentioned, he's one of them too you know ...

I am afraid it is you who needs to do the research although if your source of information is just online bits and pieces , it's not surprising you have become confused and - with respect - ignorant.

Help is at hand for the poorly informed.I recommend the Baker/Pasuk book on Thaksin which is widely available.The authors are by no means friendly to Thaksin but trace his political and business careers with authority and assurance.

Neither they nor I suggest Thaksin is other than an ethically challenged businessman but in the initial stages of his career - before achieving high office - not that much different to other Sino Thai tycoons, though he was smarter and more successful.

[spidermike007]

Start handing out 30 year prison sentences and see what happens to corruption after that.

That would require some courage from little P. And a group of courageous judges who cannot be bought. Where would they even start to make this happen? Where would they find enough judges that are not compromised? Of course it is a great solution. But, so far how many real sentences have been handed out? Only one, that I can think of.

[Down the rabbit hole]

"Every other Thai who's worth more than 50m baht isn't bribing his way into power so as to steal even more."

You have evidence that he bribed his way into power? Because nobody else has presented anything useful - lotds of ranting of course but that's more heat than light. Sound bites are only useful for people too dim to question them, same as generalisations designed to deceive - they only deceive dullards.

Go ahead, make a name for yourself...

[Down the rabbit hole]

Oops, internet crashed. Thai internet. Slow and full of bugs. Here's an emendment to the above post:

=================

"Every other Thai who's worth more than 50m baht isn't bribing his way into power so as to steal even more."

You have evidence that he bribed his way into power? Because nobody else has presented anything useful - lots of ranting from ankle-biters of course but that's to be expected and is more heat than light. Sound bites are only useful for people too dim to question them, same as generalisations designed to deceive - they only deceive dullards.

Go ahead, make a name for yourself... and please stop using devices to deflect away from what was actually said - which in this case was that every Thai worth more than 50m is a criminal, by which I meant that they did not come by > 50m baht honestly. I didn't say anything about bribing their way into power. Straw man arguments make you look foolish, which you may enjoy, but which is embarrassing for other people.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Down the rabbit hole

[Oziex1]

Changes required in Thailand are of a magnitude that only a prolonged period of blood and fire will bring the change.

When all is done the French can send a statue as a gift.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Oziex1

[mikemac]

Not enough jails!

If they gave these oxygen thieves the punishment they deserved, after a while they would not need so many prisons.

[halloween]

Oops, internet crashed. Thai internet. Slow and full of bugs. Here's an emendment to the above post:

=================

"Every other Thai who's worth more than 50m baht isn't bribing his way into power so as to steal even more."

You have evidence that he bribed his way into power? Because nobody else has presented anything useful - lots of ranting from ankle-biters of course but that's to be expected and is more heat than light. Sound bites are only useful for people too dim to question them, same as generalisations designed to deceive - they only deceive dullards.

Go ahead, make a name for yourself... and please stop using devices to deflect away from what was actually said - which in this case was that every Thai worth more than 50m is a criminal, by which I meant that they did not come by > 50m baht honestly. I didn't say anything about bribing their way into power. Straw man arguments make you look foolish, which you may enjoy, but which is embarrassing for other people.

Certainly. PTP MPs are paid to be members of the party, payments aka bribes which are illegal in most countries. By simply buying enough corrupt local politicians, Thaksin was able to use the party list system to appoint himself PM, his cronies to high office, and his criminal scum to parliament to avoid prosecution.

Obviously you didn't say it, I did. You admit he is a criminal, but don't see why he gets special attention. i gave you a reason. To give you another, after being elected, he put his criminality on public display. While it seems many Thais accept shady business practices, blatant abuses of power are not.

[Down the rabbit hole]

"Changes required in Thailand are of a magnitude that only a prolonged period of blood and fire will bring the change.

When all is done the French can send a statue as a gift."

I believe you're right. The Gods of democracy have always required a blood sacrifice as the price of setting people free. It will likely be no different in this case, though it's taking a little longer than I thought it would...

[Lovekorat]

It seems to have taken a long time for the penny to finally drop on that one.

But are they going to include the 'alleged' corruption in the police and the army as well?

And who is it that will go after corrupt authorities?

The very people who may be implicated themselves if corruption were exposed?

Not going to do it are they.

Corruption is endemic in all societies.

If any society creates a culture of corruption it is very difficult to eradicate.

A breed of 'untouchables' emerges that control and manipulate.

Not just in Thailand.

Look at the monarchy in the UK or the powers that be whoever they are ( not the president because he doesn't control much at all) in the US.

They are in a position to do what they like to whom they like when they like.

And then create a situation where the subservients cannot do anything because they are implicated and thus controlled.

On a more mundane level look at FIFA. They thought they were untouchable. 'Step ladder' still thinks he is.

Corruption is everywhere I am afraid and it takes a brave man or woman to confront it.

We will never rid ourselves of it at the top because ultimately the top 'are' the untouchables and are invisible to the rest of us.

But you can make an attempt at lower levels.

Maybe a start would be to take all internal power away from the army and let them concentrate on defending the country ( though against who , given the size of it I cannot imagine)

Second, give internal authority to the police, ensure the ordinary policeman gets a reasonable wage. He is supposed to be putting his life on the line isn't he? You might have to get rid of a few though. And then if they are found corrupt, hammer them with 30 years.

Have them swear a new 'oath of allegiance' to King and country with penalties made clear.

Make the same order on local government officials with the same penalties.

Same with the courts and judicial system.

Oh and do something about the families who 'run ' the islands and other places ( and their 'out of control' family members) who also act like and believe they are untouchable.

Am I living in dreamland?

Probably

Might be a start though.

[klauskunkel]

Corrupt politicians should face jail and lifetime ban

should, should, should, all I ever hear is "should"..., never ever do I hear "will"...

Where there is a will, there should be a way, shouldn't it, or won't it?

Edited July 19, 2015 by klauskunkel

[NovaBlue05]

Laughable if not for being so pathetic. Corruption is apparently only bad if it comes from a political party you oppose. Charging politicians with corruption is like issuing speeding tickets at the Indy 500 to quote that movie line