Income statements from the Embassy no longer accepted as POI

[TSF]

Well they did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the border run people.

They did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the Ed Visa people.

Now they starting to target the retirees.

Very easy to do, cease accepting POI statements and increase the required deposit in a Thai bank account.

What if the required deposit was increased to 1.5mil THB. How many retirees would a move like that get rid of? 50-60-70%?

[chiang mai]

Well they did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the border run people.

They did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the Ed Visa people.

Now they starting to target the retirees.

Very easy to do, cease accepting POI statements and increase the required deposit in a Thai bank account.

What if the required deposit was increased to 1.5mil THB. How many retirees would a move like that get rid of? 50-60-70%?

What they really tried to stop was:

Border runners who were living here illegally and continuously on tourist visa's, for many years.

Ed Visa holders who never learned to speak Thai and rarely went to school.

Retiree's who self declared their income to their embassy and fraudulently obtained an income letter.

And I think they're doing a good job of cracking down on the scammers and frauds, ask yourself, wouldn't you really like the government of your home country to behave in a similar way.

[willyumiii]

I would like to see some official documentation of this.

Is it country wide, or just in CM?

I have been hearing this horror story for years, and so far it is not true.

I applied for my extension 3 weeks ago. ( at my local office in Korat )

I had bank records with me, but only provided the Income Letter from the U.S. embassy.

They never requested the bank records and I never mentioned that I had them.

Just today, I called to Immigration office to see if my extension had been approved yet.

They said that yes, it had been approved and that I could pick it up tomorrow ( a week early ).

Again, I only provided an income letter from my embassy.

I know requirements can vary from office to office and even from officer to officer.

But I will not believe this story until official documentation is provided

. or I read a statement from Ubonjoe saying it is so.

If it was so, I am sure that Ubonjoe would have informed us here on TV.

Ubonjoe misses nothing when it comes to visas.

[Jeffrey346]

This is so interesting as when I applied for my last Visa in Khon Kaen, I brought a printout from BKK Bank showing monthly international transfers in excess of B100,000 per month.

My application was denied and was told I need an US Embassy proof of income statement. I said, you know i can enter any amount I want and the BKK statement is actual proof. They said they know but insisted on the Embassy statement.

Needless to say, I had to pay for a 90 day extension and fly to BKK get the Embassy letter and then pay the Visa renewal fee.

This country is definitely F'd Up

That's the rule. Embassy letter. Bank statement - not the rule. I think some people try and confuse people on Thai Visa and you were apparently one who got confused. Immigration wants a letter from your embassy and not a bank statement. More talk about immigration wanting a bank statement on Thai Visa will only lead more people to be confused. If Thai immigration makes a change it will be in writing and we can all read about it on Thai Visa. Minor office differences are only attempts to create some more cash for some rogue employees.

Let me ask you. If you read a clear statement on Thai Visa that a letter from your embassy was required would you have ignored the advice and only showed immigration a bank statement?

For 8 years I have used my BKK Bank statement which is certified by BKK Bank. This statement certainly complies with Immigration's requirement of proof of B65,000 per month. The same rule existed last year but they still accepted my bank statement.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Jeffrey346

[maoro2013]

I've been told by my immigration office that the thb400000 I require needs to be in a fixed deposit.

I thought the thb 400000 was to enable you to live so this instruction is effectively crazy.

Also this was told to me at my last report. I have put these funds in a fixed deposit but now not sure they will be there long enough to qualify.

[Thaidream]

I just did a one year extension of Visa a few weeks ago at Chaengwattana- retirement. I used the embassy letter- no back up proof needed, although I had it. Everything processed in 10 minutes. There was no mention of not accepting the letter for any further extensions. Since CW is the headquarters of Immigration, I am certain they would have stated any change in policy. It appears to me that Nong Khai is making their own 'rules.

[lostoday]

Well they did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the border run people.

They did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the Ed Visa people.

Now they starting to target the retirees.

Very easy to do, cease accepting POI statements and increase the required deposit in a Thai bank account.

What if the required deposit was increased to 1.5mil THB. How many retirees would a move like that get rid of? 50-60-70%?

Please link where there is any real evidence (not hearsay at one imm office and nothing in writing) where they are starting to target the retirees? And anyway the rule is 800,000 in the bank or monthly. What is new about that? You would have to be a fruitcake not to understand that rule and have the appropriate amount before you retired to Thailand anyway as far as I can see. I know a lot of Americans here and they are all here legally and have the necessary funds to stay so I don't know where you are coming from.

[Psychic]

Apart from everything else, haven't they heard of foreign exchange costs.

It is far more economical for me to he bring my monthly income in a few times a year rather than every month.

Also I thought the idea was to establish that you have a source of income to support yourself.

What conceivable difference can it make how that money arrives in the country? And if it doesn't, wouldn't that suggest that you don't actually need it.

As a matter of fact, you could borrow money in your home country, deposit the 800K and be perfectly OK even though you have a negative net income. Which, if this lunacy persists is probably what I am going to do.

[willyumiii]

Well they did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the border run people.

They did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the Ed Visa people.

Now they starting to target the retirees.

Very easy to do, cease accepting POI statements and increase the required deposit in a Thai bank account.

What if the required deposit was increased to 1.5mil THB. How many retirees would a move like that get rid of? 50-60-70%?

Get rid of those cheating with multiple border runs and claiming to be tourists............ Check!

Get rid of those lying and cheating about getting an education for an ED visa..........Check!

Getting rid of those who submit false income letters to obtain retirement visas............Why Not?

So many expats are constantly criticizing Thailand about all of the corruption here.

I guess the corruption is O.K. when it is the expats lying and cheating to get what they want??

Get over yourselves.

If you can not afford to be here without cheating, you should leave.

Thailand does not really care if we are here or not....we are not god's gift to Thailand!

A good many expats are nothing but a pain in the butt to Thailand.

Keep sniveling and make it even worse!

Edited July 23, 2015 by willyumiii

[slipperylobster]

There are other ways...

such as proof of income (3 to six months) of bank statements in the USA for retired military. Which, I believe..must be larger than 65,000 monthly.

never had to open a bank account here and probably never will. If forced..then I would leave...as the baht is taking a dive.

Edited July 23, 2015 by slipperylobster

[lostoday]

Apart from everything else, haven't they heard of foreign exchange costs.

It is far more economical for me to he bring my monthly income in a few times a year rather than every month.

Also I thought the idea was to establish that you have a source of income to support yourself.

What conceivable difference can it make how that money arrives in the country? And if it doesn't, wouldn't that suggest that you don't actually need it.

As a matter of fact, you could borrow money in your home country, deposit the 800K and be perfectly OK even though you have a negative net income. Which, if this lunacy persists is probably what I am going to do.

There is no change in the rules. No lunacy. Only a couple of guy trying to start a rumor by false headline to attract posters. The headline, "Income Statements from the Embassy no longer accepted" is not true.

[slipperylobster]

Apart from everything else, haven't they heard of foreign exchange costs.

It is far more economical for me to he bring my monthly income in a few times a year rather than every month.

Also I thought the idea was to establish that you have a source of income to support yourself.

What conceivable difference can it make how that money arrives in the country? And if it doesn't, wouldn't that suggest that you don't actually need it.

As a matter of fact, you could borrow money in your home country, deposit the 800K and be perfectly OK even though you have a negative net income. Which, if this lunacy persists is probably what I am going to do.

There is no change in the rules. No lunacy. Only a couple of guy trying to start a rumor by false headline to attract posters. The headline, "Income Statements from the Embassy no longer accepted" is not true.

sometimes people exaggerate their difficulties.... he may have had "other" issues that made the reviewing officer scratch their head. When confronted with skeptical proof of income...they may decide to require "additional" proof...over and beyond what we have experienced.

[NoshowJones]

That's harsh!

No problem for those using the 800K method as that's no change.

But for those on income method, they are going rogue as there really is no official policy requiring full IMPORT of all of those funds.

It seems to me that a boss of an Immigration office, can just decide to make up any rules he likes, whenever he likes, although it has never

affected me, it is one of the very few things I hate about Thailand.

[Thaidream]

After having applied for and obtained many different types of Visa's and extension for Thailand over a 50 year period, I do know that sometimes the IO asks for added proofs. Once an IO asked me for my passport with the stamp in it showing I was in Thailand at the time of my marriage. I had the original marriage certificate which he said was not enough. He wanted the passport- which was 25 years ago- at that time. US Passports were only valid for 5 years at that time. I believe he hoped I could not find it and then we would have a discussion on 'other ways' to obtain my extension of stay. Luckily I found the old passport and he was very surprised. My point is that none of this nonsense is new . It has been going on for years. I don't like but I have to live with it.

[banmiloner]

I may be thick but where does it state that the monthly income must be in a thai bank account? I just use an ATM when we need money.

[chiang mai]

I may be thick but where does it state that the monthly income must be in a thai bank account? I just use an ATM when we need money.

Therein lies the problem. Using the 800k route, the Thai banks and Thai economy benefit, using an ATM to withdraw funds from an overseas account helps those things far less.

And actually, given that the Embassy forms are based on self certification and this forum has shown previously that many people lie, the Thai government is doing little more than closing a loophole, if indeed the OP's story is correct and represents nationwide policy.

Edited July 23, 2015 by chiang mai

[NoshowJones]

Well they did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the border run people.

They did a great job of stopping and getting rid of the Ed Visa people.

Now they starting to target the retirees.

Very easy to do, cease accepting POI statements and increase the required deposit in a Thai bank account.

What if the required deposit was increased to 1.5mil THB. How many retirees would a move like that get rid of? 50-60-70%?

What they really tried to stop was:

Border runners who were living here illegally and continuously on tourist visa's, for many years.

Ed Visa holders who never learned to speak Thai and rarely went to school.

Retiree's who self declared their income to their embassy and fraudulently obtained an income letter.

And I think they're doing a good job of cracking down on the scammers and frauds, ask yourself, wouldn't you really like the government of your home country to behave in a similar way.

The UK Government behaves in much worst ways, but about different things.

[lostoday]

TV is very good about scanning posts and deleting those who break their many rules.

Do they not have a rule about posting false information like this post is?

The headline is patently false.

"Income statements from the Embassy no longer accepted as POI"

One guy is reporting one immigration office told him next year he would need a bank statement. That is certainly not by any stretch of the imagination, "Income statements from the Embassy no longer accepted as POI"

I think it is rumor mongering in the worst way especially with such a provocative and false headline.

Edited July 23, 2015 by lostoday

[Jingthing]

More like additional documents may be demanded at one office.

[lostoday]

More like additional documents may be demanded at one office.

That would be a headline that a responsible person would post.

[JWNZ]

I guess the only people who would be worried about this, are the ones making false declarations?

[bazza40]

I am somewhat puzzled by the logic associated with the 800,000 baht deposit in a Thai bank. It's only 400,000 baht if maried to a Thai; however, I would have thought ( Western logic ) that since the majority of Thai women married to expats have little ot no assets, the requirement should actually be more money in the bank to support two people.

However, the logic of Australian bureaucracy is no better. As a single person, I get an age pension. If I marry a Thai, I'll go to the pension rate (lower) for a couple, BUT Centrelink won't pay a pension to the Thai wife because she is not an Australian citizen. Doublethink at its best.

[Solution42]

I am not trying to start a rumour to scare old guys. I joined this site to verify what was happening at Nong Khai thinking it must have been a nation wide change of the rules. Only then did I find out that what had happened me and the American who was there at the time seems to be only happening at Nong Khai. I see Prajak post number 41 has posted the transcript of the form I had to sign. The American said he had heard of it from a lot of his farang friends in Nong Khai also. I am not implying that this will be a nation wide requirement but it does seem that the last part of the law which virtually says and anything else the IO requires gives them the license to create any thing they want at the offices. I only posted my experience to pass the knowledge on to other members of this site. What I wrote is a true transcript of my experience and not an attempt to scaremonger.

[lostoday]

I guess the only people who would be worried about this, are the ones making false declarations?

Embassy letter, one form. Bank statement 12 pages copied and filed and checked. What is the cost of checking and filing and storing 12 pages of text as opposed to one Embassy letter?

It would increase the cost of Thai government labor, rental for storage and they would have to chop down a forest of trees to supply all of the paper.

I don't know anyone who is not legit anyway, methinks the problems, if any are greatly exaggerated and mainly motivated by petty national jealousy.

Edited July 23, 2015 by lostoday

[OJAS]

I wonder if you show them Thai income tax returns if that would work.

I think it is very clear that they want a letter from your embassy. You don't understand that?

And most expat retirees aren't taxed in Thailand on their pension income in any event. Instead they pay income tax in their home countries and are exempt from paying any tax here under the terms of double taxation agreements.

[billd766]

I am English and my local Immigration office is in Nakhon Sawan. This morning I renewed my retirement extension a month early using the monthly income system using the POI and a letter from the UK embassy.

It took about 30 or 40 minutes start to finish and I went out happily with no problems.

Perhaps it was due to the fact that all the front office staff were ladies or maybe the fact that I bribed them. I bought 10 packs of Ferrero Rocher chocolates and gave 2 pack to each of the ladies but I got a genuine smile from all of them or perhaps because at 71 I am still a hansum man I don't know but it worked for me.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think some posters here ought to make an important distinction:

Just because one of us goes to a particular Immigration office and gets hit with some crazy rule interpretation, and then reports it here, that doesn't make what happened to that person false. For that person at that office, the rule the local Immigration staff is trying to enforce may well be real and what farangs living there have to live with.

The distinction is, just because it happens with one person or multiple people at one SINGLE Immigration office, doesn't automatically mean that the same "rule" is or will be enforced nationwide or at any other offices. And from all the subsequent posts here in this thread, I see pretty much nothing that suggests this same rule interpretation is being attempted to be enforced anywhere else.

The problem, of course, is trying to distinguish between the things that perhaps pop up at some outlying office as a legitimate early warning sign of something that's going to become nationwide vs. things that pop up at some outlying office and are merely the dictatorial whims of some local Immigration bureaucrat. It's often through posts such as this thread, where everyone can contribute their experiences, that we all can end up distinguishing the one from the other.

[OJAS]

I am English and my local Immigration office is in Nakhon Sawan. This morning I renewed my retirement extension a month early using the monthly income system using the POI and a letter from the UK embassy.

It took about 30 or 40 minutes start to finish and I went out happily with no problems.

Perhaps it was due to the fact that all the front office staff were ladies or maybe the fact that I bribed them. I bought 10 packs of Ferrero Rocher chocolates and gave 2 pack to each of the ladies but I got a genuine smile from all of them or perhaps because at 71 I am still a hansum man I don't know but it worked for me.

It may equally have something to do with the fact that the British Embassy is only prepared to issue POI letters on the basis of tangible documentary income evidence, and Nakhon Sawan are presumably well aware of this. I have got the impression from this thread that Nakhon Sawan may have a particular problem with such letters which are issued on the basis of sworn affidavits, as is the practice followed by the American and Australian embassies, for example.

[lostoday]

I am English and my local Immigration office is in Nakhon Sawan. This morning I renewed my retirement extension a month early using the monthly income system using the POI and a letter from the UK embassy.

It took about 30 or 40 minutes start to finish and I went out happily with no problems.

Perhaps it was due to the fact that all the front office staff were ladies or maybe the fact that I bribed them. I bought 10 packs of Ferrero Rocher chocolates and gave 2 pack to each of the ladies but I got a genuine smile from all of them or perhaps because at 71 I am still a hansum man I don't know but it worked for me.

It may equally have something to do with the fact that the British Embassy is only prepared to issue POI letters on the basis of tangible documentary income evidence, and Nakhon Sawan are presumably well aware of this. I have got the impression from this thread that Nakhon Sawan may have a particular problem with such letters which are issued on the basis of sworn affidavits, as is the practice followed by the American and Australian embassies, for example.

I think that fact has made one national group jealous of the other two hence we have these threads weekly about rumors about the embassy letter no longer accepted.

[Prajak]

This topic is not false.

Months ago a Dutch guy living in Nongkhai region talked about in a Dutch forum. He said exactly what's mentioned here.

He sent that statement to me, I have a print of it. It's true.

When I was at Immi 80 days ago they asked me whether I have an extension based on 800,000 in the bank OR income. No, for me it's 800,000 in the bank. Why you ask?

They told me about this new thing but for people who get an extension based on 800,000 in the bank there is no problem.

In that forum people told about their new extension elsewhere in Thailand. Well, Nongkhai is the only Immi post that wants this thing.

Some people here go to Bangkok Immi cause of the sometimes weird demands of the Immi here. In Bangkok the Immi says, I quote, ' Yes, well, that's Nongkhai...' So we grin and bear it.

We also bear that in this Immi the embassy's income statement MUST be stamped at Chaeng Wattana to certify the signature of the ambassy clerk..... Nongkhai seems to be the only Immi that want the bankletter from the same day as the application for extension. We bear it.

But this new thing causes problems to many who have income just over the 65.000 p.m. cause the euro is going up and down.

If someone tells me how to post here the PDF file (I don't know.......) I will do it.

Erik