New alcohol rules and CM bars

[naboo]

The biggest positive I can see from this is that Jammers Delight and Ba Ba Bo Bo will hopefully become nice restaurants with a pleasant moatside view. Those two bars forming an entry to Loi Kroh currently doesn't make the road look that appealling.

[Ozziepat]

Most Thai laws are intended to be selectively enforced, for a variety of reasons. This one, if left on the books, effectively moves some of the cost of policing from the tax/budget category to an unlimited "off the books" financing scheme that is beneficial to many in power as well as the cops on the street. So it has always been, and so it will continue.

[dave2]

re

Posted 7 minutes ago

The biggest positive I can see from this is that Jammers Delight and Ba Ba Bo Bo will hopefully become nice restaurants with a pleasant moatside view.

errr ummmm errr i think you might be wrong here

who in their right mind would spend a fortune converting them into restarants that cant sell wine or beer ?

dave2

[harrry]

Fremantle Australia would have a population about the same as ChiangMai and is the centre of a large entertainment district for both local visitors and overseas visitors. It has about 20 hotels licenced to sell alchohol. About 40 resturaunts which can sell alchohol withe meals and the greater area would have about 20 more take away outlets.

How many does Chiangmai have?

[arunsakda]

re

Posted 7 minutes ago

The biggest positive I can see from this is that Jammers Delight and Ba Ba Bo Bo will hopefully become nice restaurants with a pleasant moatside view.

errr ummmm errr i think you might be wrong here

who in their right mind would spend a fortune converting them into restarants that cant sell wine or beer ?

dave2

The area will be demolished and redeveloped with hotels, condos, office towers, shopping plazas, and more big chain restaurants (who won't have any licensing issues). In 10 years the area will look like Ploenchidt road. in BKK, more anonymous glass-fronted monstrosity. Hopefully reasonable height restrictions will be maintained.

[Loptr]

I wonder how the TAT is going to spin this... Won't take long for word to get out that establishments offering alcohol are being closed down in tourist areas... I guess the junta doesn't care about that segment of the market any longer...

[Oceanbat]

Fremantle Australia would have a population about the same as ChiangMai and is the centre of a large entertainment district for both local visitors and overseas visitors. It has about 20 hotels licenced to sell alchohol. About 40 resturaunts which can sell alchohol withe meals and the greater area would have about 20 more take away outlets.

How many does Chiangmai have?

Are you suggesting Fremantle has a similar economy to Chiang Mai and you can compare the 2?

OB

[harrry]

Actually the static population of the greater fremantle area is much larger...it also probably has more visitors than here. Note that number is to cope with the locals and tourists. I am pointing out that here has many many more outlets for alchohol than Fremantle. I could probably point to towns with more people than Chiangmai and only 3 total outlets.

Edited July 26, 2015 by harrry

[Oceanbat]

Are we talking about the same Fremantle with a population of <30k? CM has 150k or so. Their economies are completely different so I don't agree the comparison is valid.

OB

[harrry]

Fremantle city has a population of 30k. Wihtin an area the same as the ring road the population is rather similar...you have quoted figures for the city. It is also a major catchment for entertainment for the whole Perth area,,....the other is Northbridge. And foreign tourism is a large part of te budget. If restricted to the city you can halve the outlets I mentioned.

By that basis there would be round 200 bars for Chiangmai locals and tourist combined. I think you know there are many more than that.

Edited July 26, 2015 by harrry

[Rama]

I don't think there are any schools near JJ market. Inside JJ market (not on the main road, the complex inside) it is about 90% empty. Would be a good location for a new loy kroh.

[heybruce]

There surely are laws in Western countries regarding business in close proximity of schools as there is about advertising etc. Thailand has plenty of vacant buildings and land in every town that people can enjoy drinks so no need to open establishments so close to schools.

You can rationalize all you want, and you're factually correct, but the larger issue here is that apparently a government can dream up an idea to cull decades old businesses basically overnight, on very iffy grounds and for unlikely and unproven gain.

It further colors in the overall perception of Thailand that there is no certainty, no security and if one day the government decides it doesn't like your line of business, then you get to close up shop, with 30 days notice. Or if you're staff, be out on the street in 30 days.

Again it'll likely blow over due to resistance from people who do matter, but should serve as a stark reminder of what the political system in Thailand actually is, and what the business environment in Thailand actually is.

Excellent post. Investors hate uncertainty, and government causes extreme uncertainty when it suddenly and radically changes laws without consultation in a manner that closes countless businesses.

This specific rule is bad for Thailand's economy, and the livelihoods of more Thai citizens than I can estimate. The impression of a government that suddenly imposes arbitrary, poorly thought out decrees is worse for the economy and Thailand's future. Whatever debatable merits there may be in banning alcohol sales near universities is greatly outweighed by the damage caused by the manner in which this rule came about.

I suspect a face-saving back-down will be arrived at, but just by announcing an extensive restriction on operations of currently legal businesses Prayut has further damaged Thailand's reputation as a safe country to invest in.

[Chiengmaijoe]

There surely are laws in Western countries regarding business in close proximity of schools as there is about advertising etc. Thailand has plenty of vacant buildings and land in every town that people can enjoy drinks so no need to open establishments so close to schools.

You can rationalize all you want, and you're factually correct, but the larger issue here is that apparently a government can dream up an idea to cull decades old businesses basically overnight, on very iffy grounds and for unlikely and unproven gain.

It further colors in the overall perception of Thailand that there is no certainty, no security and if one day the government decides it doesn't like your line of business, then you get to close up shop, with 30 days notice. Or if you're staff, be out on the street in 30 days.

Again it'll likely blow over due to resistance from people who do matter, but should serve as a stark reminder of what the political system in Thailand actually is, and what the business environment in Thailand actually is.

Excellent post. Investors hate uncertainty, and government causes extreme uncertainty when it suddenly and radically changes laws without consultation in a manner that closes countless businesses.

This specific rule is bad for Thailand's economy, and the livelihoods of more Thai citizens than I can estimate. The impression of a government that suddenly imposes arbitrary, poorly thought out decrees is worse for the economy and Thailand's future. Whatever debatable merits there may be in banning alcohol sales near universities is greatly outweighed by the damage caused by the manner in which this rule came about.

I suspect a face-saving back-down will be arrived at, but just by announcing an extensive restriction on operations of currently legal businesses Prayut has further damaged Thailand's reputation as a safe country to invest in.

I know a guy who is in Chiang Mai at the moment looking to buy a place on Loi Kroh Rd in order to set up a restaurant. Having become aware of the possibility of it falling within the 300 metres of a technical college the deal is more than likely off. As you say, investors don't like uncertainty.

[TheAppletons]

"PATHUM THANI — Two bars in the northern suburb of Bangkok were the first establishments to be shut down under a new order issued by the military junta that bans selling alcohol within 300 meters of universities and schools throughout the country.

Junta chairman and Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha issued the ban on 23 July by invoking Section 44 of the interim charter, which grants him authority to unilaterally enact legally-binding orders.

The ban prohibits the sale of alcohol "in the vicinity of educational establishments" and student dormitories.

Thai officials have clarified that "vicinity" refers to a 300 meter radius around any educational establishments, an all-encompassing term that includes schools, vocational colleges, and universities. The maximum penalty for violating the prohibition is a losing a license to sell alcohol."

So if you agree not to sell alcohol, you get to keep your license for selling alcohol....if you insist on selling alcohol with your license, you can lose your license to sell alcohol.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437893460

[Saan]

According to bar owners in MoonMuang Soi 1/2, they have already received letters telling them to close down before the 22 August.

On of the bars is run by a police woman, she says she can't get round it either.

I went past the policewoman's bar yesterday. It was closed with a 'for rent' sign'. Maybe a little inside information there. They could all be for rent soon.

[slipperylobster]

Went out last night in CM.

Just to end this once and for all....Loi Kroh and Yellow Zoe are operating as usual.

I did notice that Loi Kroh was experiencing a lack of patronage...whereas Yellow Zoe was kicking. However, those bars on Loi Kroh are low end, and would not make me cry much, if they closed up. I enjoy the more upbeat places....Yellow Zoe, Riverside, Goodtimes, and ...snicker...even Tawang Daeng (lots of single ladies who are approachable..and can dance with). My wife enjoys it..and joins in.

Edited July 26, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Saan]

CP, who owns both 7/11 and Tesco has enough direct and indirect economic input to Thailand to be in a position to influence decisions which will affect their business. You're correct in that they will stick to the letter of the law on the ban, but I believe that the number of garage retail shops that don't sell alcohol are a very small percentage of the total outlets in the country.

I don't know how many Tesco Express' there are in the country, but there's a 7/11 on every corner, sometimes one either side of the corner. Nor do I know what percentage of their turnover is alcohol, but I would assume it to be significant (and it will have a knock on effect because people will inevitably pick up something else whilst in the shop). We have a massive turnover which generates tax on the goods sold, thousands - if not tens of thousands - of people in employment who go on to further stimulate the economy with their spending power and then there's the income tax which may or may not be due (or paid) by the corporation. It's undeniable the government - any government - is going to listen very closely to CP when they want to speak or suggest changes in policy.

If this ban starts to affect their profits, I think we'll be seeing some very persuasive 'lobbying'.

I don't think CP owns Tesco Lotus They made a bid earlier this year but it was rejected.

They do own Macro.

[TerrylSky]

I agree with Appleton; it is apparent that law enforcement needs a raise.

[whiterussian]

First the Brit Consulate, now the beer. Kitsch-Chinese the new market? As long as they leave the jungles alone, there's reason to stay

[MESmith]

First the Brit Consulate, now the beer. Kitsch-Chinese the new market? As long as they leave the jungles alone, there's reason to stay

Wait until it's zip lines on every tree

[khwaibah]

CP, who owns both 7/11 and Tesco has enough direct and indirect economic input to Thailand to be in a position to influence decisions which will affect their business. You're correct in that they will stick to the letter of the law on the ban, but I believe that the number of garage retail shops that don't sell alcohol are a very small percentage of the total outlets in the country.

I don't know how many Tesco Express' there are in the country, but there's a 7/11 on every corner, sometimes one either side of the corner. Nor do I know what percentage of their turnover is alcohol, but I would assume it to be significant (and it will have a knock on effect because people will inevitably pick up something else whilst in the shop). We have a massive turnover which generates tax on the goods sold, thousands - if not tens of thousands - of people in employment who go on to further stimulate the economy with their spending power and then there's the income tax which may or may not be due (or paid) by the corporation. It's undeniable the government - any government - is going to listen very closely to CP when they want to speak or suggest changes in policy.

If this ban starts to affect their profits, I think we'll be seeing some very persuasive 'lobbying'.

I don't think CP owns Tesco Lotus They made a bid earlier this year but it was rejected.

They do own Macro.

According to this they do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesco_Lotus

[Throatwobbler]

Went out last night in CM.

Just to end this once and for all....Loi Kroh and Yellow Zoe are operating as usual.

I did notice that Loi Kroh was experiencing a lack of patronage...whereas Yellow Zoe was kicking. However, those bars on Loi Kroh are low end, and would not make me cry much, if they closed up. I enjoy the more upbeat places....Yellow Zoe, Riverside, Goodtimes, and ...snicker...even Tawang Daeng (lots of single ladies who are approachable..and can dance with). My wife enjoys it..and joins in.

Not sure how this ends it once and for all as the ban has not come into place yet. Wait a month and see what is happening then.

[terminatorchiangmai]

Went out last night in CM.

Just to end this once and for all....Loi Kroh and Yellow Zoe are operating as usual.

I did notice that Loi Kroh was experiencing a lack of patronage...whereas Yellow Zoe was kicking. However, those bars on Loi Kroh are low end, and would not make me cry much, if they closed up. I enjoy the more upbeat places....Yellow Zoe, Riverside, Goodtimes, and ...snicker...even Tawang Daeng (lots of single ladies who are approachable..and can dance with). My wife enjoys it..and joins in.

All the bars got a notice that they have till the 19th of August.

So better enjoy while you still can !

[bangmai]

Went out last night in CM.

Just to end this once and for all....Loi Kroh and Yellow Zoe are operating as usual.

I did notice that Loi Kroh was experiencing a lack of patronage...whereas Yellow Zoe was kicking. However, those bars on Loi Kroh are low end, and would not make me cry much, if they closed up. I enjoy the more upbeat places....Yellow Zoe, Riverside, Goodtimes, and ...snicker...even Tawang Daeng (lots of single ladies who are approachable..and can dance with). My wife enjoys it..and joins in.

Not sure how this ends it once and for all as the ban has not come into place yet. Wait a month and see what is happening then.

As I stated earlier, some bars have already closed, and they are ones that have been around for years. The wheels are in motion on this one.

[arunsakda]

I don't think there are any schools near JJ market. Inside JJ market (not on the main road, the complex inside) it is about 90% empty. Would be a good location for a new loy kroh.

What about the shuttered "gay" zone near Foxy Lady on Thapae soi 1. I see bars are already opening in the mostly empty shell of the Night Bazaar Art Gallery area. They are outside the prohibition zone. So are all the bars over by Galare. All is good, until the Fatwa is extended to 500 metres! Still OK, until the restriction extends to 1000 metres of a Temple. At that point they can put a cork in it and call the country dry. Edited July 26, 2015 by arunsakda

[delboy]

The Pub on Huay Kaew has been visited and told they are within 300 metres of a school, and possible the Maya is also in the same radius. I talked to a friend in management at Tesco and he says Tesco are seeking clarification, but at present they believe any place, including supermarkets, 7-11, etc will not be allowed to sell alcohol in the vicinity of a school. The Airport Plaza is bang opposite the Far Eastern University, so I suppose that will be included.

[MESmith]

The Pub on Huay Kaew has been visited and told they are within 300 metres of a school, and possible the Maya is also in the same radius. I talked to a friend in management at Tesco and he says Tesco are seeking clarification, but at present they believe any place, including supermarkets, 7-11, etc will not be allowed to sell alcohol in the vicinity of a school. The Airport Plaza is bang opposite the Far Eastern University, so I suppose that will be included.

Isn't The Pub a World Heritage Site? Time to call in the UN!

[arunsakda]

World heritage site of course, until they are driven out.

Then a new Sheraton, big condo, or another new Mall.

[northernjohn]

Fremantle Australia would have a population about the same as ChiangMai and is the centre of a large entertainment district for both local visitors and overseas visitors. It has about 20 hotels licenced to sell alchohol. About 40 resturaunts which can sell alchohol withe meals and the greater area would have about 20 more take away outlets.

How many does Chiangmai have?

Are you suggesting Fremantle has a similar economy to Chiang Mai and you can compare the 2?

OB

He is suggesting that Fremantle Australia is an alcoholics heaven.

[Konini]

I wonder how the TAT is going to spin this... Won't take long for word to get out that establishments offering alcohol are being closed down in tourist areas... I guess the junta doesn't care about that segment of the market any longer...

The hub of recovering alcoholics? Seriously, I don't drink often so it wouldn't bother me, but the majority of people who spend money to go on holiday want to let their hair down a bit and enjoy themselves. With most people that involves a few beers or spirits or a glass of wine.

The ban really is the most ridiculous law to put in place. I don't go for conspiracy theories at all, but I'm starting to wonder if we're being softened up for something.