New alcohol rules and CM bars

[Konini]

Thai officials have clarified that "vicinity" refers to a 300 meter radius around any educational establishments, an all-encompassing term that includes schools, vocational colleges, and universities. The maximum penalty for violating the prohibition is a losing a license to sell alcohol."

So if you agree not to sell alcohol, you get to keep your license for selling alcohol....if you insist on selling alcohol with your license, you can lose your license to sell alcohol.

Well spotted. At least the punishment fits the crime.....

[Saan]

CP, who owns both 7/11 and Tesco has enough direct and indirect economic input to Thailand to be in a position to influence decisions which will affect their business. You're correct in that they will stick to the letter of the law on the ban, but I believe that the number of garage retail shops that don't sell alcohol are a very small percentage of the total outlets in the country.

I don't know how many Tesco Express' there are in the country, but there's a 7/11 on every corner, sometimes one either side of the corner. Nor do I know what percentage of their turnover is alcohol, but I would assume it to be significant (and it will have a knock on effect because people will inevitably pick up something else whilst in the shop). We have a massive turnover which generates tax on the goods sold, thousands - if not tens of thousands - of people in employment who go on to further stimulate the economy with their spending power and then there's the income tax which may or may not be due (or paid) by the corporation. It's undeniable the government - any government - is going to listen very closely to CP when they want to speak or suggest changes in policy.

If this ban starts to affect their profits, I think we'll be seeing some very persuasive 'lobbying'.

I don't think CP owns Tesco Lotus They made a bid earlier this year but it was rejected.

They do own Macro.

According to this they do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesco_Lotus

And according to this and a number of other articles, this year, they don't.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/09/us-tesco-m-a-cpgroup-idUSKBN0LD17020150209

[MaeJoMTB]

I know a guy who is in Chiang Mai at the moment looking to buy a place on Loi Kroh Rd in order to set up a restaurant. Having become aware of the possibility of it falling within the 300 metres of a technical college the deal is more than likely off. As you say, investors don't like uncertainty.

The people that own LK don't sell properties.

Key money + rent scam ........ so he wasn't ever gonna buy from the get go.

[MaeJoMTB]

I suspect a face-saving back-down will be arrived at, but just by announcing an extensive restriction on operations of currently legal businesses Prayut has further damaged Thailand's reputation as a safe country to invest in.

Thailand was never a safe country to invest in.

Hard to see how Prayut (or anyone else) could damage it's reputation.

[bangmai]

There are very few "bar owners" in CNX; many "bar renters," though.

[dickyknee]

Fremantle Australia would have a population about the same as ChiangMai and is the centre of a large entertainment district for both local visitors and overseas visitors. It has about 20 hotels licenced to sell alchohol. About 40 resturaunts which can sell alchohol withe meals and the greater area would have about 20 more take away outlets.

How many does Chiangmai have?

Are you suggesting Fremantle has a similar economy to Chiang Mai and you can compare the 2?

OB

He is suggesting that Fremantle Australia is an alcoholics heaven.

sail&anchor, little creatures, monk breweries, metros, the craik and a a bunch of others within a 300(odd) meter radius of Notre dame Uni.

ECU Joondalup and mt Lawley no different.

Curtain is a bit out, I think that's why they have the most bars on campus of all the WA unis.

The old Steves on the swan near UWA was an institution in its own right at the time. The honourable Bob Hawke and world record beer drinker being a regular patron.

Most university's I've studied or worked at had at least one tavern on campus.

[harrry]

Fremantle Australia would have a population about the same as ChiangMai and is the centre of a large entertainment district for both local visitors and overseas visitors. It has about 20 hotels licenced to sell alchohol. About 40 resturaunts which can sell alchohol withe meals and the greater area would have about 20 more take away outlets.

How many does Chiangmai have?

Are you suggesting Fremantle has a similar economy to Chiang Mai and you can compare the 2?

OB

He is suggesting that Fremantle Australia is an alcoholics heaven.

sail&anchor, little creatures, monk breweries, metros, the craik and a a bunch of others within a 300(odd) meter radius of Notre dame Uni.

ECU Joondalup and mt Lawley no different.

Curtain is a bit out, I think that's why they have the most bars on campus of all the WA unis.

The old Steves on the swan near UWA was an institution in its own right at the time. The honourable Bob Hawke and world record beer drinker being a regular patron.

Most university's I've studied or worked at had at least one tavern on campus.

I am not denying that,,,,,,I have drank in more than one uni tavern and I am not against that. What I was pointing out was that in WA there are limited outlets you can get alcohol compared to here. It is not allowed to be sold in every corner store or by anyone who wants to unlike in the past here. It is a more controlled situation and if you count the bars in ChiangMai you will get many more than in the greater fremantle area. If you count the 7s that sell alcohol there are many more than there are bottle shops in Australia.

If you are in the US you cannot drink if you are under 21. Here I am not sure of the age but think it is 20,

That really is for the country to decide. A pub cannot trade outside its licenced hours in Australia or repeated breaches would lead to licence loss. I think it is things like that that are being emphasised here. It is not prohibition.

[Chiengmaijoe]

I know a guy who is in Chiang Mai at the moment looking to buy a place on Loi Kroh Rd in order to set up a restaurant. Having become aware of the possibility of it falling within the 300 metres of a technical college the deal is more than likely off. As you say, investors don't like uncertainty.

The people that own LK don't sell properties.

Key money + rent scam ........ so he wasn't ever gonna buy from the get go.

What happened to you that makes you so cynical? Properties on Loi Kroh rd get sold just like every road the world over. As it was I was reffering to him buying a business as opposed to the actual building, which again happens all over the world. Since you have no idea as to which building he was hoping to rent you have no basis on which to state that the rent would be a scam. From the information I have I would consider it to be a reasonable rent and a viable business if it were not for the uncertainty of the alcohol laws.

I imagine you revel in your misery, and hate the idea that some people actually succeed here, even on Loi Kroh rd.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Chiengmaijoe

[worgeordie]

I know a guy who is in Chiang Mai at the moment looking to buy a place on Loi Kroh Rd in order to set up a restaurant. Having become aware of the possibility of it falling within the 300 metres of a technical college the deal is more than likely off. As you say, investors don't like uncertainty.

The people that own LK don't sell properties.

Key money + rent scam ........ so he wasn't ever gonna buy from the get go.

What happened to you that makes you so cynical? Properties on Loi Kroh rd get sold just like every road the world over. As it was I was reffering to him buying a business as opposed to the actual building, which again happens all over the world. Since you have no idea as to which building he was hoping to rent you have no basis on which to state that the rent would be a scam. From the information I have I would consider it to be a reasonable rent and a viable business if it were not for the uncertainty of the alcohol laws.

I'm imagine you revel in your misery, and hate the idea that some people actually succeed here, even on Loi Kroh rd.

Hi Joe, You refer to the guy buying a "place" to set up restaurant, not a business ,which is why MaeJo

rightfully thought you meant he was going to purchase a property.

regards worgeordie

[Chiengmaijoe]

I know a guy who is in Chiang Mai at the moment looking to buy a place on Loi Kroh Rd in order to set up a restaurant. Having become aware of the possibility of it falling within the 300 metres of a technical college the deal is more than likely off. As you say, investors don't like uncertainty.

The people that own LK don't sell properties.

Key money + rent scam ........ so he wasn't ever gonna buy from the get go.

What happened to you that makes you so cynical? Properties on Loi Kroh rd get sold just like every road the world over. As it was I was reffering to him buying a business as opposed to the actual building, which again happens all over the world. Since you have no idea as to which building he was hoping to rent you have no basis on which to state that the rent would be a scam. From the information I have I would consider it to be a reasonable rent and a viable business if it were not for the uncertainty of the alcohol laws.

I'm imagine you revel in your misery, and hate the idea that some people actually succeed here, even on Loi Kroh rd.

Hi Joe, You refer to the guy buying a "place" to set up restaurant, not a business ,which is why MaeJo

rightfully thought you meant he was going to purchase a property.

regards worgeordie

We could debate whether buying a place refers to a business or a building but what isn't debatable is the fact that he is wrong in his assertion that people on Loi Kroh don't sell property or the implication that every rental agreement is a scam. I did clarify the fact that he is looking to buy a business but I still think he comes across as a miserable cynic. I know of people having bought a building on Loi Kroh and of succesful businesses paying a viable rent on Loi Kroh. He's probably happy being miserable anyway!

[Chiengmaijoe]

I suspect a face-saving back-down will be arrived at, but just by announcing an extensive restriction on operations of currently legal businesses Prayut has further damaged Thailand's reputation as a safe country to invest in.

Thailand was never a safe country to invest in.

Hard to see how Prayut (or anyone else) could damage it's reputation.

You love it here, I can see. Hundreds of multi-national corporations including some of the biggest companies globally may disagree with you, but don't let that get in the way of your negative outlook or opinions.

[bangmai]

There is money to be made here, for sure. It likely isn't in the bar business, though. Look at the alternatives? Cambodia? Not. Indonesia? Malaysia?...neither particularly stable. Haven't heard from the Gold bulls in a while...Charging people to shovel elephant dung or teach English to 50 students at a time seem to be pretty lucrative endeavors.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I suspect a face-saving back-down will be arrived at, but just by announcing an extensive restriction on operations of currently legal businesses Prayut has further damaged Thailand's reputation as a safe country to invest in.

Thailand was never a safe country to invest in.

Hard to see how Prayut (or anyone else) could damage it's reputation.

He's sure making an effort though.

[bristolgeoff]

will be interesting to see if zoe in yellow area will be affected.maybe a few bars will move just have to wait and see

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ Zoe Yellow is basically across the road from Yupparaj College..

Now that's not a university, it only goes until Mathayom 6 level, but as the government has demonstrated they can and do move goalposts overnight without any kind of process, debate or recourse. (as you might expect of course for this type of government).

Edited July 27, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Throatwobbler]

^ Zoe Yellow is basically across the road from Yupparaj College..

Now that's not a university, it only goes until Mathayom 6 level, but as the government has demonstrated they can and do move goalposts overnight without any kind of process, debate or recourse. (as you might expect of course for this type of government).

The government announced that it was all educational institutes, schools included.

Check post 52

Edited July 27, 2015 by Throatwobbler

[Tywais]

Posted just now in Thaivisa News a clarification which does not clarify. 1st part says lower schools not included, 2nd part says they are.

Note to Readers: Clarification on New Laws Curbing Alcohol Sales in Thailand

BANGKOK: -- Last week the Thai government passed two separate legal measures restricting the sale of alcohol near educational institutions across the country. We would like to clarify the differences between the two measures, which have led to some confusion about the scope and definition of the new regulations.

The first legal measure was an amendment to the 2008 Control of Alcoholic Beverage Act passed by the Office of Prime Minister on 22 July 2015.

The amendment outlaws selling alcohol within 300 meters of the "fence" of universities and colleges, both public and private. Lower schools are not included in the ban.

More here Thaivisa.com

[MaeJoMTB]

The people that own LK don't sell properties.

Key money + rent scam ........ so he wasn't ever gonna buy from the get go.

What happened to you that makes you so cynical? Properties on Loi Kroh rd get sold just like every road the world over. As it was I was reffering to him buying a business as opposed to the actual building, which again happens all over the world. Since you have no idea as to which building he was hoping to rent you have no basis on which to state that the rent would be a scam. From the information I have I would consider it to be a reasonable rent and a viable business if it were not for the uncertainty of the alcohol laws.

I'm imagine you revel in your misery, and hate the idea that some people actually succeed here, even on Loi Kroh rd.

Hi Joe, You refer to the guy buying a "place" to set up restaurant, not a business ,which is why MaeJo

rightfully thought you meant he was going to purchase a property.

regards worgeordie

We could debate whether buying a place refers to a business or a building but what isn't debatable is the fact that he is wrong in his assertion that people on Loi Kroh don't sell property or the implication that every rental agreement is a scam. I did clarify the fact that he is looking to buy a business but I still think he comes across as a miserable cynic. I know of people having bought a building on Loi Kroh and of succesful businesses paying a viable rent on Loi Kroh. He's probably happy being miserable anyway!

Property in LK is owned by two or three families, and they don't sell it.

Happy to be corrected if you know any property that was purchased in the last 10 years.

Usual deal is one or two year lease, if the business does well, rent doubles on renewal.

Don't know of anywhere rented in LK area where the rent is reasonable.

Usually rented to the gf/wife of foreigners at double the normal rate (25% for wife/gf and 75% for land owner).

Whole area is a scam.

[MaeJoMTB]

I suspect a face-saving back-down will be arrived at, but just by announcing an extensive restriction on operations of currently legal businesses Prayut has further damaged Thailand's reputation as a safe country to invest in.

Thailand was never a safe country to invest in.

Hard to see how Prayut (or anyone else) could damage it's reputation.

You love it here, I can see. Hundreds of multi-national corporations including some of the biggest companies globally may disagree with you, but don't let that get in the way of your negative outlook or opinions.

Many of them appear to be leaving as quick as .......

I do love it here, not silly enough to move here without being fully funded.

[naboo]

Property in LK is owned by two or three families, and they don't sell it.

Happy to be corrected if you know any property that was purchased in the last 10 years.

Usual deal is one or two year lease, if the business does well, rent doubles on renewal.

Don't know of anywhere rented in LK area where the rent is reasonable.

Usually rented to the gf/wife of foreigners at double the normal rate (25% for wife/gf and 75% for land owner).

Whole area is a scam.

The Olde Bell location was sold when the it shut down a couple of years back. The people now operating the guesthouse/cafe there are the landowners. Around 20 million Baht if I recall correctly.

[MaeJoMTB]

Property in LK is owned by two or three families, and they don't sell it.

Happy to be corrected if you know any property that was purchased in the last 10 years.

Usual deal is one or two year lease, if the business does well, rent doubles on renewal.

Don't know of anywhere rented in LK area where the rent is reasonable.

Usually rented to the gf/wife of foreigners at double the normal rate (25% for wife/gf and 75% for land owner).

Whole area is a scam.

The Olde Bell location was sold when the it shut down a couple of years back. The people now operating the guesthouse/cafe there are the landowners. Around 20 million Baht if I recall correctly.

Thai owners, or a foreigner who thinks he is the owner?

The Olde Bell,

One of the three successful foreigner bar/restaurant business in CM ..... until the property owner handed him his ass.

Edited July 27, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Property in LK is owned by two or three families, and they don't sell it.

Happy to be corrected if you know any property that was purchased in the last 10 years.

Usual deal is one or two year lease, if the business does well, rent doubles on renewal.

Don't know of anywhere rented in LK area where the rent is reasonable.

Usually rented to the gf/wife of foreigners at double the normal rate (25% for wife/gf and 75% for land owner).

Whole area is a scam.

The Olde Bell location was sold when the it shut down a couple of years back. The people now operating the guesthouse/cafe there are the landowners. Around 20 million Baht if I recall correctly.

Yes. Also the building that used to have the small 7-11 near-ish to the moat on LK was for sale. Probably still is actually, though it's been rented/leased out currently.

Note: I'm not making any statements about price levels, or the viability of any kind of business there. Just that MaejoMTB was wrong in saying that nothing is for actual sale there.

The key money thing is always used for units in a larger complex, such as CMEC (Boxing Ring area), the Night Bazar building, etc.

But regular shophouses, land, etc. can be purchased if you bring enough cash. (Although the key money thing and taking over a lease is common there, too. And mostly not a good deal.)

The Night Bazar building could actually get to a bit of a revival if bars on LK end up being truly squeezed.

[dickyknee]

Property in LK is owned by two or three families, and they don't sell it.

Happy to be corrected if you know any property that was purchased in the last 10 years.

Usual deal is one or two year lease, if the business does well, rent doubles on renewal.

Don't know of anywhere rented in LK area where the rent is reasonable.

Usually rented to the gf/wife of foreigners at double the normal rate (25% for wife/gf and 75% for land owner).

Whole area is a scam.

The Olde Bell location was sold when the it shut down a couple of years back. The people now operating the guesthouse/cafe there are the landowners. Around 20 million Baht if I recall correctly.

Thai owners, or a foreigner who thinks he is the owner?

The Olde Bell,

One of the three successful foreigner bar/restaurant business in CM ..... until the property owner handed him his ass.

he "purchased" the land behind also as I understand.

I know one bar owner in Lk who owns the property, also owns a building in one of the sois and rents it out.

Land being sold in the past 10 years... Number1 bistro (maybe not 10 years) but the car park/extension next door was definitely in the past 10 years. Then next door to that there is what is now basic line, that land was sold only a few years back.

I've no doubt there other examples.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Property in LK is owned by two or three families, and they don't sell it.

Happy to be corrected if you know any property that was purchased in the last 10 years.

Usual deal is one or two year lease, if the business does well, rent doubles on renewal.

Don't know of anywhere rented in LK area where the rent is reasonable.

Usually rented to the gf/wife of foreigners at double the normal rate (25% for wife/gf and 75% for land owner).

Whole area is a scam.

The Olde Bell location was sold when the it shut down a couple of years back. The people now operating the guesthouse/cafe there are the landowners. Around 20 million Baht if I recall correctly.

Thai owners, or a foreigner who thinks he is the owner?

The Olde Bell,

One of the three successful foreigner bar/restaurant business in CM ..... until the property owner handed him his ass.

Only three? What are the other two?

[heybruce]

^ Zoe Yellow is basically across the road from Yupparaj College..

Now that's not a university, it only goes until Mathayom 6 level, but as the government has demonstrated they can and do move goalposts overnight without any kind of process, debate or recourse. (as you might expect of course for this type of government).

There was an order banning alcohol sales within 300 meters of universities and technical colleges, then the next day an order banning sales in the vicinity of educational institutions. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437978181&section=0200

It seems nobody knows how to interpret this second order. Maybe Zoe, Chiang Mai Saloon, UN Irish Pub and others are safe, maybe not.

Edited July 27, 2015 by heybruce

[khwaibah]

^ Zoe Yellow is basically across the road from Yupparaj College..

Now that's not a university, it only goes until Mathayom 6 level, but as the government has demonstrated they can and do move goalposts overnight without any kind of process, debate or recourse. (as you might expect of course for this type of government).

There was an order banning alcohol sales within 300 meters of universities and technical colleges, then the next day an order banning sales in the vicinity of educational institutions. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437978181&section=0200

It seems nobody knows how to interpret this second order. Maybe Zoe, Chiang Mai Saloon, UN Irish Pub and others are safe, maybe not.

My money is on the Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha, the Prime Minister and leader of the junta's National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), issued a separate order through Section 44 of the interim constitution that became effective immediately. Bend over and grab your socks.

[opalred]

i lived in a hotel in night market for years and the people visiting the bars in that area were brain dead anyway

so no lose cheers

[arunsakda]

What?

[opalred]

the old bell had some life in it years ago the rest had frangs drinking and looking at the wall

waiting for a young girl to talk to them

i cant give to much away might find out who i am

i was married to a girl that had 2 massage shops in area

cheers

[Chiengmaijoe]

i lived in a hotel in night market for years and the people visiting the bars in that area were brain dead anyway

so no lose cheers

What does 'no lose cheers' mean? Actually, what does any of it mean? I can only assume that the brain dead people in that area were seen as competition on your part.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Chiengmaijoe