Legal Status of these so called digital nomad?

[MickeyMaow]

Just seen a Facebook post of one of these "digital nomads" encouraging people to come and work and live here in Chiang Mai. Giving out details of co work space offices like Pun Space to rent etc.

Is this kind of working legal here?

[arunsakda]

There is nothing such as living illegally, as far as universal standards of human rights are concerned as outlined in the UN UDHR to which Thailand is party to.

An alien exists in Thailand on a valid visa status (or visa exempt), an extension of stay, or on overstay, which is an offense according to the immigration act.

Working in Thailand requires a WP. Working without a WP is an offense.

The topic has been beat to death on this forum already.

Keep a low profile and nobody cares what one does in a Cafe pounding on a laptop all day. This much has been publicly acknowledged by public officials.

Edited July 29, 2015 by arunsakda

[elektrified]

Immigration has deemed it to be legal. Do a search.

[Jdiddy]

They are not taking jobs or money from Thais and contributing to the local economy, would be silly to make it illegal

[Naam]

Keep a low profile and nobody cares what one does in a Cafe pounding on a laptop all day. This much has been publicly acknowledged by public officials.

must be some poor nomads who pound their laptops in a café

[JulieM]

It's only legal until someone with more influence decides it's not. I had a digital nomad blacklisted for three years for failing to deliver on a contract. I am the legal owner of a company.

[NancyL]

Last year there was an Immigration raid at a co-working space filled with digital nomads. Those who couldn't produce their passports were taken into the Immigration office by the airport and even fed lunch while they waited for friends to bring their passports to them. Once they could prove they were here with a valid visa -- be it a tourist visa, ed visa, 30-day visa exempt, whatever, they were permitted to go. No one was on overstay. At first Immigration thought they all worked for the owner of the workspace and they had trouble understanding the concept of a co-working space. Once it was explained in terms like a "internet cafe", Immigration understood the concept and had no interest at all in what the people detained were actually doing on their computers.

Some of the digital nomads went on to blog about this experience -- on blogs where they have ads and other schemes to try to make money. Clearly some people would say they are "working" when they write these blog postings, but Immigration wasn't interested.

[NancyL]

It's only legal until someone with more influence decides it's not. I had a digital nomad blacklisted for three years for failing to deliver on a contract. I am the legal owner of a company.

This is how a digital nomad can get into trouble -- to upset someone of influence and not just a customer. It can also be a competitor, landlord, or someone in a personal relationship. Or to take on a crusade -- like to be against new construction, to save local ecology,help disadvantaged people, etc.

[dru2]

They are not taking jobs or money from Thais and contributing to the local economy, would be silly to make it illegal

Just how are they contributing to the local economy? By drinking coffee?

[TheAppletons]

They are not taking jobs or money from Thais and contributing to the local economy, would be silly to make it illegal

Just how are they contributing to the local economy? By drinking coffee?

Presumably they rent a place in which to live, buy food/groceries, ride in songthaews and tuk tuks, go shopping in the mall, see movies, etc. (You really couldn't figure that out?)

[Chicog]

I don't like these digital gnomes. I'm more of a traditionalist myself.

[mamborobert]

I don't like these digital gnomes. I'm more of a traditionalist myself.

And from what I have seen of digitals in CM the traditionalist has far greater social skills, is visually more interesting, similar averaged earing capacity, can withstand direct sun light, and far less queries on TV on visa status issues.

[dru2]

They are not taking jobs or money from Thais and contributing to the local economy, would be silly to make it illegal

Just how are they contributing to the local economy? By drinking coffee?

Presumably they rent a place in which to live, buy food/groceries, ride in songthaews and tuk tuks, go shopping in the mall, see movies, etc. (You really couldn't figure that out?)

So they're tourists, on a tourist visa? Then why all the "digital nomad" hype. Presumably they will be moving on soon.

[Gonzo the Face]

They are not taking jobs or money from Thais and contributing to the local economy, would be silly to make it illegal

Just how are they contributing to the local economy? By drinking coffee?

Presumably they rent a place in which to live, buy food/groceries, ride in songthaews and tuk tuks, go shopping in the mall, see movies, etc. (You really couldn't figure that out?)

So they're tourists, on a tourist visa? Then why all the "digital nomad" hype. Presumably they will be moving on soon.

Dru2.... I think you better quit while you are just behind...... some may be on tourist visas, some on many of the other types of visas... If you will take the time to read thru the dozen or so posts and think about what was written and you have just read, you will see that immigration doesn't care what kind of visa they are on, as long as the visa is valid, and the party is not in overstay. Read it, its just a few posts back......

Read NancyL's post # 7

\

Edited July 30, 2015 by Gonzo the Face

[dru2]

So they're tourists, on a tourist visa? Then why all the "digital nomad" hype. Presumably they will be moving on soon.

Presumably they rent a place in which to live, buy food/groceries, ride in songthaews and tuk tuks, go shopping in the mall, see movies, etc. (You really couldn't figure that out?)

Dru2.... I think you better quit while you are just behind...... some may be on tourist visas, some on many of the other types of visas... If you will take the time to read thru the dozen or so posts and think about what was written and you have just read, you will see that immigration doesn't care what kind of visa they are on, as long as the visa is valid, and the party is not in overstay. Read it, its just a few posts back......

Read NancyL's post # 7

\

Sorry, Gonzo, but I think there is a difference between a digital nomad and a digital freeloader. But then I pay my taxes, as I am sure you do.

[arunsakda]

The only other problem here is digital Bwana justifying his presence because he spend " money " The obvious similarity with sexpests not missed. Not the point. For those ones with high spending there are at least ten renting dumps or bedsits, eating at cheap noodle stands, and drinking a few beers at cheap bars or 7/11. Paying tax nowhere as digital parasites so, I'd reckon.

Edited July 30, 2015 by arunsakda

[luther]

Take another puff.

[HooHaa]

They are not taking jobs or money from Thais and contributing to the local economy, would be silly to make it illegal

Just how are they contributing to the local economy? By drinking coffee?

think about it mate, think real hard.

[HooHaa]

So they're tourists, on a tourist visa? Then why all the "digital nomad" hype. Presumably they will be moving on soon.

Presumably they rent a place in which to live, buy food/groceries, ride in songthaews and tuk tuks, go shopping in the mall, see movies, etc. (You really couldn't figure that out?)

Dru2.... I think you better quit while you are just behind...... some may be on tourist visas, some on many of the other types of visas... If you will take the time to read thru the dozen or so posts and think about what was written and you have just read, you will see that immigration doesn't care what kind of visa they are on, as long as the visa is valid, and the party is not in overstay. Read it, its just a few posts back......

Read NancyL's post # 7

\

Sorry, Gonzo, but I think there is a difference between a digital nomad and a digital freeloader. But then I pay my taxes, as I am sure you do.

if paying tax is something to be so very proud of, why do the wealthy expend so much effort to minimize their tax exposure.

absolutely nothing wrong with arranging your life so that you are not paying out a large chunk of your income to one government or another.

[SoiBiker]

Why are so many convinced they have detailed knowledge of the lifestyle of these nomads (Mama noodles, 'grindhouses' etc as repeated ad nauseam whenever the subject comes up)?

Have you ever met anyone that fits this stereotype, or is it just an assumption?

[bangmai]

I think if you work from inside your own place, on your own connection, you cut potential problems down by 80-90%. Some of the work-spaces do seem to be kind of in your face, and at least one other was actually employing people as online English teachers....and that was shut down even though the students were not n Thailand. So those places will continue to be scrutinized by Immigration and any other Thai (or foreigner), who has an ax to grind.

One of my favorite blogs is the Tieland to Thailand one....where an early 30s couple pays off all their debts, sells everything, quits their combined 100K+ USD jobs, and moves here to escape all the stress of living like that. I wonder how stressful she found teaching 45 students for 28,000 THB per month to be?

There are a few dozen of these blogs out there...I really don't see how 9 out of 10 are producing more than 20 USD per month in income.

[narkeddiver]

From what I understand immigration only care if you have a visa and you haven't overstayed

It's the labour office that cares if you're working without a work permit

If that's the case then there may have been a different outcome of the raid on the shared office of the labour office had been involved

[NancyL]

From what I understand immigration only care if you have a visa and you haven't overstayed

It's the labour office that cares if you're working without a work permit

If that's the case then there may have been a different outcome of the raid on the shared office of the labour office had been involved

Possibly, but the Immigration officials are police officers, too. As I said, they were primarily interested in whether the people they rounded up were on overstay. As bangmai said, they knew they had small fish who weren't taking employment from any Thai people, so what was the point in turning them over to the Labor Dept officers for "working" without a work permit.?

The English teachers working out of the office at Riverside condo were a different story. They were employed here, earning a salary, from a company that had been actively recruiting. You had to be blind not to see their hiring ads around town. The employer was naive to think they could set up a company and not offer their workers work permits and unfortunately some naive digital nomads believed their story.

From time-to-time similar outfits approach the CM Expats Club wanting to employ native English speaking retirees to perform similar work on a "part-time basis" to "supplement" their retirement income. A few questions reveal they have no intention of helping the retirees to convert their retirement visas into a suitable visa for a work permit. Obviously, this is not a suitable retirement activity for CEC members and the discussion stops.

Edited July 30, 2015 by NancyL

[elektrified]

I think if you work from inside your own place, on your own connection, you cut potential problems down by 80-90%. Some of the work-spaces do seem to be kind of in your face, and at least one other was actually employing people as online English teachers....and that was shut down even though the students were not n Thailand. So those places will continue to be scrutinized by Immigration and any other Thai (or foreigner), who has an ax to grind.

One of my favorite blogs is the Tieland to Thailand one....where an early 30s couple pays off all their debts, sells everything, quits their combined 100K+ USD jobs, and moves here to escape all the stress of living like that. I wonder how stressful she found teaching 45 students for 28,000 THB per month to be?

There are a few dozen of these blogs out there...I really don't see how 9 out of 10 are producing more than 20 USD per month in income.

I don't think he or she is teaching English but their blog gets a lot of hits and I suspect generates some good income for them.

[bangmai]

She isn't now, but the blog states that she taught for a year at 28K per month. Think again.

scamaudit says the site has the "potential" to earn 196 usd per month in advertising. So it is one of the more popular blogs....but like I stated...9 out of 10 are making less than 20 per month.

Edited July 30, 2015 by bangmai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Why are so many convinced they have detailed knowledge of the lifestyle of these nomads (Mama noodles, 'grindhouses' etc as repeated ad nauseam whenever the subject comes up)?

Have you ever met anyone that fits this stereotype, or is it just an assumption?

With traditional backpackers having pretty much died out, a new group is needed to be jealous of and therefore disparaged at every opportunity.

BTW if paying taxes was key then I wonder how many retirees pay taxes in return for using Thailand's infrastructure.

[does]

Drinking coffee, buying food, clothes, transport, housing, perhaps supporting a Thai family with paying for tuition for school... If you give it some thought. I'm sure you can add a few other contributions they make to the local economy.

They are not taking jobs or money from Thais and contributing to the local economy, would be silly to make it illegal

Just how are they contributing to the local economy? By drinking coffee?

[Friendly Stranger]

At the end of the day, nothing can be proven, as being on a computer, is what it is. Unless, ppl are silly enough to say they make money, as it would be either misconstrued or not bothered with, but why bring it to anyone's attention. I used to day trade in Bkk, nothing wrong investing from my acct back home to support myself. No jobs taken & no taxation concerns.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Friendly Stranger

[DrTuner]

This old chestnut. In Thailand the legal/illegal distinction is far less relevant than enforced/not enforced.

Currently they are tolerating digipikeys and not enforcing the need for a work permit. This may change at any moment and as the nomads are starting to make a bit too much noise about themselves, especially in CM, some sort of crackdown is quite likely to occur. Thais don't like it rubbed on their face.

[Cam Khao]

This old chestnut. In Thailand the legal/illegal distinction is far less relevant than enforced/not enforced.

Currently they are tolerating digipikeys and not enforcing the need for a work permit. This may change at any moment and as the nomads are starting to make a bit too much noise about themselves, especially in CM, some sort of crackdown is quite likely to occur. Thais don't like it rubbed on their face.

I've been wondering how these shared work spaces are managing to get away with blatantly promoting illegal activity here in Thailand for some time now.

It's one thing to be keeping your head down, doing a little remote working in your own home. And quite another to be blatantly shouting from the roof tops "look how clever I am for evading tax and working illegally in a country where I have only been granted vacation access."