AP was there: US drops atomic bombs on Japan in 1945

[webfact]

AP WAS THERE: US drops atomic bombs on Japan in 1945
By The Associated Press

EDITOR'S NOTE: On two days in August 1945, U.S. planes dropped two atomic bombs — one on Hiroshima, one on Nagasaki, the only times nuclear weapons have been used. Their unprecedented destructive power incinerated buildings and people and left lifelong physical and psychological scars on survivors and on the cities themselves. "Practically all living things, human and animal, were literally seared to death," an AP story reported. A few days later, Japan announced its unconditional surrender. World War II was effectively over.

Seventy years later, the AP is making stories about the bombings and surrender available, along with photos.
_____

WASHINGTON, AUG. 6. — An atomic bomb, hailed as the most terrible destructive force in history and as the greatest achievement of organized science, has been loosed upon Japan.

President (Harry) Truman disclosed in a White House statement at 11 a.m. Eastern War Time, today that the first use of the bomb — containing more power than 20,000 tons of TNT and producing more than 2,000 times the blast of the most powerful bomb ever dropped before — was made 16 hours earlier on Hiroshima, a Japanese army base.

(Tokyo Radio announced that Hiroshima was raided at 8:20 a.m. Monday (7:20 p.m. Sunday, United States Eastern War Time). That is about the time the bomb was dropped, but the Tokyo broadcast, recorded by the FCC, made no mention of any unusual destruction. It reported only that "a small number" of American B-29s attacked the city on southwestern Honshu with incendiary and explosive bombs.)

The raid on Hiroshima, located on Honshu Island on the shores of the Inland Sea, had not been disclosed previously although the 25th Air Force on Guam announced that 580 Superforts raided four Japanese cities at about the same time.

The atomic bomb is the answer, President Truman said, to Japan's refusal to surrender. Secretary of War (Henry) Stimson predicted the bomb will prove a tremendous aid in shortening the Japanese war. Mr. Truman grimly warned that "even more powerful forms (of the bomb) are in development."

"If they do not now accept our terms, they may expect a rain of ruin from the air the like of which has never been seen on this earth," he said.

The War Department reported that "an impenetrable cloud of dust and smoke" cloaked Hiroshima after the bomb exploded. It was impossible to make an immediate assessment of the damage.

President Truman said he would recommend that Congress consider establishing a commission to control production of atomic power within the United States.

"I shall make recommendations to Congress as to how atomic power can become a powerful and forceful influence towards the maintenance of world peace," he said. Both Mr. Truman and Stimson, while emphasizing the peace-time potentiality of the new force, made clear that much research must be undertaken to effect full peacetime application of its principles.

The product of $2,000,000,000 spent in research and production, the atomic bomb has been one of the most closely guarded secrets of the war. Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill gave the signal to start work on harnessing the forces of the atom. Mr. Truman said the Germans worked feverishly, but failed to solve the problem.

Meantime, American and British scientists studied the problem and developed two principal plants and some lesser factories for the production of atomic power.

The president disclosed that more than 65,000 persons now are working in great secrecy in these plants, adding: "We have spent $2,000,000,000 on the greatest scientific gamble in history — and won. We are now prepared to obliterate more rapidly and completely every productive enterprise the Japs have above ground in any city. We shall completely destroy Japan's power to make war."

The President noted that the Big Three ultimatum issued on July 26 at Potsdam was intended "to spare the Japanese people from utter destruction," and the Japanese leaders rejected it. The atomic bomb now is the answer to that rejection, and the President said: 'They may expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth."

Mr. Truman forecast that sea and land forces will follow up this air attack in such numbers and power as the Japanese never have witnessed. The President said that this discovery may open the way for an entirely new concept of force and power. The actual harnessing of atomic energy may in the future supplement the power that now comes from coal, oil and the great dams, he said.

"It has never been the habit of the scientists of this country or the policy of this government to withhold from the world scientific knowledge," Mr. Truman said. "Normally, therefore, everything about the work with atomic energy would be made public."

That will have to wait, however, he said, until the war emergency is over.

____

GUAM, AUG. 9 — The world's second atomic bomb, most destructive explosive invented by man, was dropped on strategically important Nagasaki on western Kyushu Island at noon today.

Crew members radioed that results were good, but Gen. Carl A. Spaatz said additional details would not be disclosed until the mission returns.

Gen. Spaatz's communique reporting the bombing did not say whether only one or more than one "mighty atom" was dropped.

The first atomic bomb destroyed more than 60 percent — 4.1 square miles — of Hiroshima, city of 343,000 population, Monday, and radio Tokyo reported "practically every living thing" there was annihilated.

Although the second A-bomb was dropped on the day Russia went to war with Japan, it was not believed there had been any plan to make the two simultaneous.

Nagasaki, which had 211,000 population 10 years ago, is an important shipping and railway center. It was hit first by China-based B-29s a year ago this month and was heavily attacked by Far East Air Force bombers and fighters only last July 31 and on the following day.

Nagasaki, although only two-thirds as large as Hiroshima in population, is considered more important industrially. With a population now estimated at 255,000, its 12 square miles are packed with eave-to-eave buildings, which won it the name "sea of roofs."

It was vitally important as a port for transshipment of military supplies and the embarkation of troops in support of Japan's operation in China, Formosa, Southeast Asia and the southwest Pacific. It was highly important as a major shipbuilding and repair center for both naval and merchantmen. The city also included industrial suburbs of Inase and Akunoua on the western side of the harbor and Urakami. The bombing area is nearly double Hiroshima's.

Japanese perished by uncounted thousands from the searing, crushing atomic blast that smashed Hiroshima, photographic and other evidence indicated today.

The Tokyo radio, which said that "practically all living things, human and animal, were literally seared to death," reported that authorities were still unable to check the total casualties.

Following is the complete text of the Tokyo English-language broadcast as recorded by the Federal Communications Commission:

"With the gradual restoration of order following the disastrous ruin that struck the city of Hiroshima in the wake of the enemy's new-type bomb on Monday morning, the authorities are still unable to obtain a definite check-up on the extent of the casualties sustained by the civilian population.

"Medical relief agencies that were rushed from the neighboring districts were unable to distinguish, much less identify, the dead from the injured.

"The impact of the bomb was so terrific that practically all living things, human and animals, were literally seared to death by the tremendous heat and pressure engendered by the blast. All of the dead and injured were burned beyond recognition.

"With houses and buildings crushed, including the emergency medical facilities, the authorities are having their hands full in giving every available relief possible under the circumstances.

"The effect of the bomb was widespread. Those outdoors burned to death, while those indoors were killed by the indescribable pressure and heat."

___

WASHINGTON, AUG. 14 — The second world war, history's greatest flood of death and destruction, ended tonight with Japan's unconditional surrender.

Formalities still remained — the official signing of surrender terms and a proclamation of V-J Day.

But from the moment President Truman announced at 7 p.m. (EWT) that the enemy of the Pacific had agreed to Allied terms, the world put aside for a time woeful thoughts of the cost in dead and dollars and celebrated in wild frenzy. Formalities meant nothing to people freed at last of war.

To reporters crammed into his office, shoving now-useless war maps against a marble mantle, the president disclosed that:

Japan, without ever being invaded, had accepted completely and without reservation an Allied declaration of Potsdam, dictating unconditional surrender.

There is to be no power for the Japanese emperor — although Allies will let him remain their tool. No longer will the warlords reign, through him. Hirohito — or any successor — will take orders from MacArthur.

(From Tokyo just before midnight EWT came a broadcast saying Emperor Hirohito had told the Japanese people by radio that the Allies had begun "to employ a new and most cruel bomb" — the atomic bomb — and that to continue to fight "would lead to the total extinction of human civilization."

(Hirohito said "this is the reason" the Japanese decided to get out of the war.)

Allied forces were forced to "suspend offensive action" everywhere.

From now on, only men under 26 will be drafted. Army draft calls will be cut from 80,000 a month to 50,000. Mr. Truman forecast that 5 million to 5.5 million soldiers may be released within 12 to 18 months.

The surrender announcement set in motion a whole chain of events. Among them:

To a Japanese government which once had boasted it would dictate peace terms to the White House, Mr. Truman dispatched orders to "direct prompt cessation of hostilities, tell MacArthur of the effective date, and hour, and send emissaries to the general to arrange formal surrender.

The War Manpower Commission terminated all manpower controls.

The Navy piled a $6,000,000,000 cancellation of contracts on top of a previous $1,300,000,000 cut in its shipbuilding program.

Congress was summoned back to work on Sept. 5, more than a month ahead of schedule, to get busy on unemployment compensation, surplus property disposal, full employment, government reorganization and the continuation or abolition of war agencies.

The Office of Censorship said it was getting ready to fold up. News, radio, and mail censorship are due to end on V-J Day.

Director Elmer Davis declared the life of the Office of War Information "soon will be over."

A War Production Board official predicted that agency would go out of business once industry is on a solid footing.

Those were developments which on any other night would have commanded smash headlines. Those developments and surrender capped a week packed with some of history's most stunning news:

The first atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Russia's declaration of war, another atomic bomb on Nagasaki, Japan's offer to surrender if she could have her emperor and his sovereign prerogatives, an Allied declaration that he would become merely their instrument.

Surrender followed — at an instant when carrier planes of the mighty Pacific fleet were a few seconds from their targets in the Tokyo area. Pilots eager for a last lick at a weakening foe were reported to have gotten this word from Adm. William F. Halsey, who wants to ride Hirohito's white horse through Tokyo streets:

"It looks like the war is over. Cease fighting, but if you see any enemy planes in the air shoot them down in friendly fashion."

So tonight there was reason for rejoicing. A war-wracked world made the most of it. Three times President Truman had to come out on the White House porch to greet the tremendous crowds — 75,000 people by official estimate — who jammed the streets and parks around the executive mansion.

They jammed so tightly against the iron fence around the White House grounds it looked as if they were coming right on through, despite military police stationed at four foot intervals.

The chief executive spent half an hour dining with his staff. For him there was no personal celebrating, even with close friends.

For days, the national capital had taken surrender reports with complete calm and a generous portion of salt. At 7 p.m., not a minute before or a minute earlier, it gave way to utter abandon.

But across the Potomac in the Pentagon building, nerve center of the Army's winning war, there wasn't any jubilation. There was no one left except a couple of bored public relations officers answering phones.

As the great news became known, hundreds of Washingtonians raced to the White House to join hundreds already massed around the grounds.

Mr. Truman, accompanied by his wife, walked out on the porch and stepped up to a hastily erected microphone. He waved and smiled. Then he spoke:

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is the great day. This is the day we have been looking for since Dec. 7, 1941.

"This is the day when fascism and police government ceases in the world.

"This is the day for the democracies.

"This is the day when we can start up our real task of implementation of free government in the world.

"We are faced with the greatest task we ever have been faced with. The emergency is as great as it was on Dec. 7, 1941.

"It is going to take the help of all of us to do it. I know we are going to do it."

For millions of Americans, for hundreds of millions of Allied people, his surrender announcement signified victory, peace and the eventual return of loved ones from war. To millions who sleep beneath stark white crosses, it meant their sacrifices had not been vain.
_____

The AP Corporate Archives contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-08-03

[lap82]

That's impossible for me to understand why this isn't considered a war crime and the responsibles weren't taken to the court...

Edited August 3, 2015 by lap82

[IMA_FARANG]

My Uncle "Bud" was born in 1926.....which means in 1945 he was approaching 20 years old.

He was in the US ARMY AIR FORCE as it was known then.

He was in Texas, training as a Glider Pilot.

He wasn't told then but in 1945 the war with Germany was almost over.... now no more invasionsby air of Germany

My Uncle was training for an Airborne invasion of somewhere....soldiers in Gliders dropping somewhere..... as was done on D-Day in France.

So where was that invasion to be.

It was obviously Japan and my Uncle was being trained to be in the invasion by air of Japan.

It never happened because the A-Bomb meant there was no Invasion of Japan.

My uncle is in his 80's today.... and he has said often while he doesn't applaud the dropping of A-Bombs.... those bombs probably mean he did not die in that (non-existent) invasion of Japan he was being trained for in 1945 or 1946.

He feels the A-Bombs dropped on Japan were the reason he is still alive.

The U.S expected there would be about 1 million U.S. casualties in the two planned invasions of Japan. And up to 4 million Japanese besides many of them civilians. The Japanese Army intended to destroy the city of Tokyo rather than surrender it.

A lot of people, like my Uncle did not die because of those two bombs.

War is a game where men die..... not fun no matter how it is done.

War is a cruel thing.

Edited August 3, 2015 by IMA_FARANG

[lovetotravel]

That's impossible for me to understand why this isn't considered a war crime and the responsibles weren't taken to the court...

Because it was a real war and Japan attacked first. Remember Pearl Harbor? Plus, they were given an option to stop the war. The reply was not very good, thus, the bomb.

War sucks no matter how you cut it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration

[Lissos]

That's impossible for me to understand why this isn't considered a war crime and the responsibles weren't taken to the court...

"charging a man with murder in this place was like handing out speeding tickets in the Indy 500" - Cpt Willard (Apocalypse Now)

[NeverSure]

That's impossible for me to understand why this isn't considered a war crime and the responsibles weren't taken to the court...

[faraday]

World War 2 started in 1939 & ended in May 1945.

[stoneyboy]

A very insightful and interesting read.

Cheers.

[h90]

That's impossible for me to understand why this isn't considered a war crime and the responsibles weren't taken to the court...

because the winner writes the book of history......If the Germans would have dropped the bomb all scientists, politicians, engineers and airplane staff would have been hang.

[chuckd]

My dad was in the merchant marines (too old for regular army) and my mother worked on the landing gear production line for the B-17.

We were living in Lomita, CA, and I remember going into downtown LA on VJ night and getting involved in the celebrations.

What I remember most vividly was the amount of paper littering the streets, ala a ticker tape parade. I recall it coming up to my knees. I would have been seven years old at the time.

To the poster, lap82, calling for a war crimes tribunal, I suggest you become familiar with Operation Downfall. That was the plan for the invasion of Japan and the estimates of total casualties.

While the nukes took the lives of some 250,000 people in the two attacks, they saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of Allied soldiers and Japanese military and civilians that would have died as a result of an invasion.

Educate yourself before you post something else in the future that is even more ludicrous.

[Publicus]

World War 2 started in 1939 & ended in May 1945.

1939-1945 in Europe.

Still, after the German surrender in May, the WW2 ally Soviet Russia shifted great resources to the East and was sweeping across Japanese occupied Manchuria when the 2nd A-Bomb was offloaded. Moscow sent its mechanized divisions onto the Korean peninsula until the United States rapidly landed a thin line of troops at the 38th parallel, which is where the Soviet forces pulled up.

World War II has a different timeframe for different peoples and countries. For instance.....

China 1937-45 from the Japanese invasion to the Japanese surrender.

USA 1941-1945

Japan 1933-45 in Manchuria, 1937-1945 in China; and 1941-1945 in the Asia-Pacific

Europe 1939- May, 1945

Soviet Russia 1941-Sept, 1945

Australia-NZ 1939-1945

The fullest extent of World War II was however fought from 1939 to September, 1945

The newsreel of the formal surrender ceremony in Tokyo Bay, September 2, 1945........

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Q4DsCQUWkVw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The newsreel of the German surrender on V-E Day, May 8, 1945 and the lights being turned on across Europe......

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vvwU2ni1NGw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(Because of peculiarities among the Allies, the Gerrnans had to surrender several times before the final big one, May 8th, beginning with the first German surrender, which was to Field Marshal Sir Bernard Montgomery in northern Germany.)

[NeverSure]

There was a different philosophy and there were different treaties about war in WWII. It's also noteworthy that WWII is the last war that the allies won outright to the point of surrender.

The belief then was to get the people of a country to want their leaders to surrender. The people of each country were held responsible for the leaders they allowed to have power. The war was against an entire country, not just some guy in a foxhole.

Berlin was bombed mercilessly 363 times without regard to any casualties. Those who weren't killed were often left badly injured and without utilities including clean water and without housing. Certainly their medical care was disrupted. The plan was to bring Berlin to its knees. The same was true of the nukes in Japan. Why sacrifice the lives of allied soldiers to get control of a country that had bombed Pearl Harbor and taken over much of Asia? "Let the Japanese die rather than losing invading allied troops."

Now we have PC wars which we can't and don't win and we never will unless we once again decide that war is hell and let it all hang out.

Cheers.

[JakeSully]

That's impossible for me to understand why this isn't considered a war crime and the responsibles weren't taken to the court...

Maybe because there are mitigating circumstances and the victim (Japan) was actually guilty of war crimes more than the Americans.

[BudRight]

That's impossible for me to understand why this isn't considered a war crime and the responsibles weren't taken to the court...

because the winner writes the book of history......If the Germans would have dropped the bomb all scientists, politicians, engineers and airplane staff would have been hang.

That reminds me of a story.

When it was realized that an atomic bomb was possible the Nazis asked Werner Heisenberg, one of the greatest Physicists of all time, to calculate how much U235 would be necessary for critical mass.

He calculated it would need to be the size of a volkswagon, an impractical amount of U235, and the Nazis consequently did not seriously pursue such a bomb. In reality far, far less is needed.

It has been speculated that this "error" was quite intentional.

Edited August 3, 2015 by BudRight

[h90]

My dad was in the merchant marines (too old for regular army) and my mother worked on the landing gear production line for the B-17.

We were living in Lomita, CA, and I remember going into downtown LA on VJ night and getting involved in the celebrations.

What I remember most vividly was the amount of paper littering the streets, ala a ticker tape parade. I recall it coming up to my knees. I would have been seven years old at the time.

To the poster, lap82, calling for a war crimes tribunal, I suggest you become familiar with Operation Downfall. That was the plan for the invasion of Japan and the estimates of total casualties.

While the nukes took the lives of some 250,000 people in the two attacks, they saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of Allied soldiers and Japanese military and civilians that would have died as a result of an invasion.

Educate yourself before you post something else in the future that is even more ludicrous.

The could have put it on the sea, so everyone can see it, still causing deaths from radiation, it would have been an equal warning and if it wouldn't work they could have dropped the second one.

And a war criminal tribunal doesn't mean that everyone is guilty, the judges can also decide that it was justified.

But well there were so many allied war crimes and nothing happened...there were so many war crimes in Vietnam and almost nothing happened. USA supported Pol Pot in Cambodia. They did how many war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan and what happened?

But at the smallest war crimes of others they call for the hardest judgement.

Just think Germany would have dropped the bomb on London....what an evil war crime that would have been.

[simple1]

There was a different philosophy and there were different treaties about war in WWII. It's also noteworthy that WWII is the last war that the allies won outright to to point of surrender.

The belief then was to get the people of a country to want their leaders to surrender. The people of each country were held responsible for the leaders they allowed to have power. The war was against an entire country, not just some guy in a foxhole.

Berlin was bombed mercilessly 363 times without regard to any casualties. Those who weren't killed were often left badly injured and without utilities including clean water and without housing. Certainly their medical care was disrupted. The plan was to bring Berlin to its knees. The same was true of the nukes in Japan. Why sacrifice the lives of allied soldiers to get control of a country that had bombed Pearl Harbor and taken over much of Asia? "Let the Japanese die rather than losing invading allied troops."

Now we have PC wars which we can't and don't win and we never will unless we once again decide that war is hell and let it all hang out.

Cheers.

The US has not been subjected to major destruction of it's cities, infrastructure and mass civilian casualties by an enemy nation since the advent of modern warfare. I often wonder if today US nationals would support total war if their homeland had suffered the destruction and civilian deaths wrought by war as other nations in the 20th & 21st centuries. As the US is currently the only superpower, IMO support for a policy of total war does comes across as arrogant.

I do believe the the Marshall Plan and rebuilding of Japanese institutions after WW11 are excellent examples of enlightened US policy.

Edited August 3, 2015 by simple1

[NeverSure]

There was a different philosophy and there were different treaties about war in WWII. It's also noteworthy that WWII is the last war that the allies won outright to to point of surrender.

The belief then was to get the people of a country to want their leaders to surrender. The people of each country were held responsible for the leaders they allowed to have power. The war was against an entire country, not just some guy in a foxhole.

Berlin was bombed mercilessly 363 times without regard to any casualties. Those who weren't killed were often left badly injured and without utilities including clean water and without housing. Certainly their medical care was disrupted. The plan was to bring Berlin to its knees. The same was true of the nukes in Japan. Why sacrifice the lives of allied soldiers to get control of a country that had bombed Pearl Harbor and taken over much of Asia? "Let the Japanese die rather than losing invading allied troops."

Now we have PC wars which we can't and don't win and we never will unless we once again decide that war is hell and let it all hang out.

Cheers.

The US has not been subjected to major destruction of it's cities, infrastructure and mass civilian casualties by an enemy nation since the advent of modern warfare. I often wonder if today US nationals would support total war if their homeland had suffered the destruction and civilian deaths wrought by war as other nations in the 20th & 21st centuries. As the US is currently the only superpower, IMO support for a policy of total war does comes across as arrogant.

I do believe the the Marshall Plan and rebuilding of Japanese institutions after WW11 are excellent examples of enlightened US policy.

The US engaged in "total war" in Europe in WWII to help the allies in Europe. The US didn't even want to be there and it wasn't until Churchill almost begged long enough and until Pearl Harbor. The US was actually determined to stay out of WWII until it couldn't be avoided. First the US responded to requests from Churchill to supply equipment after so many of the UK's ships were sunk and so many planes were shot down.

Eventually the inevitable happened but it took Pearl Harbor to wake up the US population to the point of wanting the war. Once the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor the "sleeping giant" was not going to be stopped. The nukes were just part of taking out the trash.

It is noteworthy that the US and allies took no spoils of war but to the contrary helped defeated nations to rebuild including allowing them to export their Volkswagens, Toyotas, toys and electronics, etc.

Cheers.

[KarenBravo]

World War 2 started in 1939 & ended in May 1945.

Actually, World War 1 started in 1914 and ended in 1989.

[simple1]

There was a different philosophy and there were different treaties about war in WWII. It's also noteworthy that WWII is the last war that the allies won outright to to point of surrender.

The belief then was to get the people of a country to want their leaders to surrender. The people of each country were held responsible for the leaders they allowed to have power. The war was against an entire country, not just some guy in a foxhole.

Berlin was bombed mercilessly 363 times without regard to any casualties. Those who weren't killed were often left badly injured and without utilities including clean water and without housing. Certainly their medical care was disrupted. The plan was to bring Berlin to its knees. The same was true of the nukes in Japan. Why sacrifice the lives of allied soldiers to get control of a country that had bombed Pearl Harbor and taken over much of Asia? "Let the Japanese die rather than losing invading allied troops."

Now we have PC wars which we can't and don't win and we never will unless we once again decide that war is hell and let it all hang out.

Cheers.

The US has not been subjected to major destruction of it's cities, infrastructure and mass civilian casualties by an enemy nation since the advent of modern warfare. I often wonder if today US nationals would support total war if their homeland had suffered the destruction and civilian deaths wrought by war as other nations in the 20th & 21st centuries. As the US is currently the only superpower, IMO support for a policy of total war does comes across as arrogant.

I do believe the the Marshall Plan and rebuilding of Japanese institutions after WW11 are excellent examples of enlightened US policy.

The US engaged in "total war" in Europe in WWII to help the allies in Europe. The US didn't even want to be there and it wasn't until Churchill almost begged long enough and until Pearl Harbor. The US was actually determined to stay out of WWII until it couldn't be avoided. First the US responded to requests from Churchill to supply equipment after so many of the UK's ships were sunk and so many planes were shot down.

Eventually the inevitable happened but it took Pearl Harbor to wake up the US population to the point of wanting the war. Once the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor the "sleeping giant" was not going to be stopped. The nukes were just part of taking out the trash.

It is noteworthy that the US and allies took no spoils of war but to the contrary helped defeated nations to rebuild including allowing them to export their Volkswagens, Toyotas, toys and electronics, etc.

Cheers.

No response to the points I raised. Suggest you invest in some history revision on your claim US 'took no spoils of war'

[maoro2013]

The story seems to have mixed up 'nuclear' and 'atomic'

[Seastallion]

The story seems to have mixed up 'nuclear' and 'atomic'

A bombs.

Keep in mind, the stories were written in 1945.

[Publicus]

There was a different philosophy and there were different treaties about war in WWII. It's also noteworthy that WWII is the last war that the allies won outright to to point of surrender.

The belief then was to get the people of a country to want their leaders to surrender. The people of each country were held responsible for the leaders they allowed to have power. The war was against an entire country, not just some guy in a foxhole.

Berlin was bombed mercilessly 363 times without regard to any casualties. Those who weren't killed were often left badly injured and without utilities including clean water and without housing. Certainly their medical care was disrupted. The plan was to bring Berlin to its knees. The same was true of the nukes in Japan. Why sacrifice the lives of allied soldiers to get control of a country that had bombed Pearl Harbor and taken over much of Asia? "Let the Japanese die rather than losing invading allied troops."

Now we have PC wars which we can't and don't win and we never will unless we once again decide that war is hell and let it all hang out.

Cheers.

The US has not been subjected to major destruction of it's cities, infrastructure and mass civilian casualties by an enemy nation since the advent of modern warfare. I often wonder if today US nationals would support total war if their homeland had suffered the destruction and civilian deaths wrought by war as other nations in the 20th & 21st centuries. As the US is currently the only superpower, IMO support for a policy of total war does comes across as arrogant.

I do believe the the Marshall Plan and rebuilding of Japanese institutions after WW11 are excellent examples of enlightened US policy.

The US engaged in "total war" in Europe in WWII to help the allies in Europe. The US didn't even want to be there and it wasn't until Churchill almost begged long enough and until Pearl Harbor. The US was actually determined to stay out of WWII until it couldn't be avoided. First the US responded to requests from Churchill to supply equipment after so many of the UK's ships were sunk and so many planes were shot down.

Eventually the inevitable happened but it took Pearl Harbor to wake up the US population to the point of wanting the war. Once the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor the "sleeping giant" was not going to be stopped. The nukes were just part of taking out the trash.

It is noteworthy that the US and allies took no spoils of war but to the contrary helped defeated nations to rebuild including allowing them to export their Volkswagens, Toyotas, toys and electronics, etc.

Cheers.

The points in and of themselves are valid ones but the philosophy and meaning of 'total war' would need as you say, to be specified in the contemporary 21st century world.

I'm confident there'd be agreement 'total war' meant something during the Cold War quite different from its meaning in respect of WW2 (or WWOne).

Total war today would also need to be defined in today's terms. Total conventional war? Total what nature of war?

Should there have been 'total war' in Korea 1950-53? Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan? What would that have meant?

One reason among a thousand factors Vietnam did not go well for the US is that we did not blow the dams to flood centers of population to include agricultural fields the way the Allies did during WW2 in Europe and in Asia. Chemicals were used aerially to 'deforest' the jungle but not directly on population centers (a sensitive matter of great controversy either way).

The touted 'shock and awe' bombardment of Baghdad in 2003 was a targeted attack hitting specific government buildings and energy plants etc rather than a carpet bombardment of the city. Was that total war in the present philosophy of warfare?

There's always been economic warfare (Britain counterfeited a billion Deutsche Marks for instance) so if contemporary cybernetics were employed to befuddle finance and economics, would that be included in whether there is total war or not.

Pardon the somewhat professorial approach but your post does correctly point out that philosophies of war are fluid which means total war gets redefined too, so I only develop the post further.

Employing the two A-Bombs to end the war was btw good judgement and just.

[Humberstone]

The question is always did they really need to drop the bomb in the first place? When Truman took over from Roosevelt he continued with the unconditional surrender doctrine, meaning the Japanese would not be able to keep Hirohito as Emperor. If more moderate voices within Truman’s inner circle such as Stimson had prevailed then perhaps a more conciliatory approach could have been used in offering terms to Japan. It seems from what I’ve read that Truman took counsel regarding diplomacy and the atomic programme from Byrnes who wanted to use the bomb as soon as possible and a way to cow the USSR into getting better terms for the rebuilding of Europe and Asia.

It’s all moot now, but we know that Japan was bombed and Hirohito was allowed to stay on as Emperor.

[Scott]

Off topic posts removed.

[boomerangutang]

That's impossible for me to understand why this isn't considered a war crime and the responsibles weren't taken to the court...

Little known, is that there were some Jap officers who were adamantly against surrendering, even when Hirohito agreed to. The rogue officers tried to commandeer the radio station where the Emporer's recording was going to be played (yes, his announcement was pre-recorded the previous evening on a vinyl record). The man with the Vinyl record had to hide it, so the rogue soldiers wouldn't find it and destroy it, and kill the man holding it also. At the radio station, there was a tense stand-off with pistols drawn. Somehow, the DJ got the record played. It was the first time 99.9% of the Japanese sheeple heard their Emperor's voice.

More than a few Jap top brass committed Hari Kari (suicide) that day.

The US only had those two Atomic bombs, but the Japs didn't know that.

Dropping those bombs precluded a US invasion - which would have likely cost tens of thousands of US soldiers, and over a million Japanese soldiers, and many more that number of civilian casualties - because the US would have had to go from city to city, like the allies did in the European theater. BTW, my dad worked in WWII as liaison between the US OSS (precurser to CIA) and the Danish Underground.

World War 2 started in 1939 & ended in May 1945.

From another perspective, the war started thousands of years ago. Our species (similar to dogs and chimps and ants) has always been territorial, and almost seems to relish any opportunity to band together and fight an opposing force of our own species - having different dress/customs/language. Young men, in particular, relish charging down a hill into a field with their buddies, all shouting, carrying spears or guns or whatever - against an opposing force. Adrenaline pumping.

It's only a minute or so later that they realize up close how painful and awful war is, but by then it's too late - as they're in the thick of it. Their generals should know better, but they're all enmeshed with pride, egotism, lust-for-promotion/medalions and glory, that they just add to the mix leading to war. War is good for political careers of the winning generals also. and some of the soldiers sell books, and movie-makers make movies, and arms sellers are grinning all the way to the bank....... ....not to mention all the contracts for re-construction and medical. War is great for some businesses.

[boomerangutang]

The question is always did they really need to drop the bomb in the first place? When Truman took over from Roosevelt he continued with the unconditional surrender doctrine, meaning the Japanese would not be able to keep Hirohito as Emperor. If more moderate voices within Truman’s inner circle such as Stimson had prevailed then perhaps a more conciliatory approach could have been used in offering terms to Japan. It seems from what I’ve read that Truman took counsel regarding diplomacy and the atomic programme from Byrnes who wanted to use the bomb as soon as possible and a way to cow the USSR into getting better terms for the rebuilding of Europe and Asia.

It’s all moot now, but we know that Japan was bombed and Hirohito was allowed to stay on as Emperor.

The Japanese, like most people ww, had a long tradition of: in war, the losing side loses everything; their land, their women, their resources. The winning side enslaves their opponents' able-bodied men, rapes their women, etc.

And also, like you say, the Japanese were worried their monarchy would be scrapped. Didn't happen. Not even the Americans knew how much American influence would aid the Japanese as a whole. A short while later Tokyo hosted the Olympics, and Japan went on to becoming one of the industrial powerhouses of the world. Heck, I drive a Mitsubishi, the same company which made the Zero. ....and Yoko married John Lennon.

[Friendly Stranger]

That's impossible for me to understand why this isn't considered a war crime and the responsibles weren't taken to the court...
[/quote

U.S. bash lately? Lets pretend they did not attack them while they were negotiating on the mainland.

Though, no doubt, the loss of life was regrettable.

[tigermoth]

My Uncle was on the the first allied ship into the harbour at Nagasaki, 3 days after the bomb. He died about 20 years ago which has been attributed to radiation he received on that day. He never doubted the wisdom of using the bomb which saved millions of lives. One only has to look at the japanese defence of the invaded Japanese islands,Okinawa, iwo jima, where they fought to the death, refusing to surrender in all but a very few cases. They would have defended Japan the same way taking thousands of allied lives, better them than us.

[IMA_FARANG]

That's impossible for me to understand why this isn't considered a war crime and the responsibles weren't taken to the court...

because the winner writes the book of history......If the Germans would have dropped the bomb all scientists, politicians, engineers and airplane staff would have been hang.

There were many reasons the Germans never developed the Atomic Bomb.

A key reason was Hitler's obsession with the V-2 rockets.

Hitler was an old infantry soldier.....he knew about artillery and rockets.... but the concept of an Atomic bomb was beyond him.

So Hitler ordered efforts to go into developing the V-2 rockets instead of the Atomic bomb.

Also many of the nuclear physicists that could have advised him about the Atomic bomb were too "Jewish" for Hitler.

The Germans had a working experimental nuclear reactor before 1939. Unfortunately for Hitler the people who developed that reactor were "Jews".

[IMA_FARANG]

My Uncle was on the the first allied ship into the harbour at Nagasaki, 3 days after the bomb. He died about 20 years ago which has been attributed to radiation he received on that day. He never doubted the wisdom of using the bomb which saved millions of lives. One only has to look at the japanese defence of the invaded Japanese islands,Okinawa, iwo jima, where they fought to the death, refusing to surrender in all but a very few cases. They would have defended Japan the same way taking thousands of allied lives, better them than us.

-------------------

True

But as I said previously in another post we now know that the Japanese military who would never surrender were also prepared to destroy Tokyo rather than surrender the city.

And that also involved in killing much of the then population of Tokyo to avoid them suffering the "dishonor" of surrender.

Among other things the Japanese military intended to flood the Kanto plain to avoid surrender of Tokyo.