canthai55 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 The torque and HP curves illustrated above are so close as to be nearly identical. Would have a hard time telling them apart on the street, unless one of the bikes was 100kg lighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisfeld Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 The torque and HP curves illustrated above are so close as to be nearly identical. Would have a hard time telling them apart on the street, unless one of the bikes was 100kg lighter I think you could easily tell them apart when ridden. Note that there are different scales. The triple scale on the x axis goes from 2 to 12, the twin from 0 to 10. When the triple starts to show its muscles at 6.5k RPM, the twin is already past its peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canthai55 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 My apologies. I thought the two lines in both charts were for both bikes. Now I see the top is the MT09 and the bottom the CRF. Both with and without Termi exhaust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyF Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 The torque and HP curves illustrated above are so close as to be nearly identical. Would have a hard time telling them apart on the street, unless one of the bikes was 100kg lighter The mt09 tracer is "only" 30 kgs lighter than the dct Honda, but 30 kgs is a lot despite the "mass centralization" in the Honda brochure. Those Yam triples sound sweet, and 70-100k baht is a substantial saving for the Yam over the Honda. That covers tyres and servicing for several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi850m2 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 That Honda AT is heavy man, it will be very difficult to raise by yourself if you crash off-road somewhere out in the bush alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLIGAD Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 That Honda AT is heavy man, it will be very difficult to raise by yourself if you crash off-road somewhere out in the bush alone.You would think so but this seems to suggest the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) That Honda AT is heavy man, it will be very difficult to raise by yourself if you crash off-road somewhere out in the bush alone. Sounds dangerous. Satellite-phone/ bad-ass towing medical insurance.? Carry light-weight block-and-tackle. Edited February 4, 2016 by papa al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canthai55 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Use your legs, not your back and arms. Rode with a girl - must have weighed 60kg with a pocket full of rocks. She could stand up a full dresser HD - alone - using this method. Find two strong places to grab, turn around so your back is facing the low side of the bike. Bend legs, grab hold, straighten your legs. Bike is upright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisfeld Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 If people can pick up 210kg bikes without problems, then they can pick up 230kg bikes. 10% difference is not gonna break your back. People pick up GSs all the time, sure it's not fun but then dropping your bike is never fun to begin with. But yea, I'd like some 20kg off of this bike too Until the bike is available in Thailand (May?), we'll have some reports from owners in western countries who had the bike for a couple months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Use your legs, not your back and arms. Rode with a girl - must have weighed 60kg with a pocket full of rocks. She could stand up a full dresser HD - alone - using this method. Find two strong places to grab, turn around so your back is facing the low side of the bike. Bend legs, grab hold, straighten your legs. Bike is upright. The CG on a HD is way lower than a loaded AT. If your Twin is down in a remote situation, you're prolly in some gnarly terrain and good luck. Take 5 and roll one. Somebody will eventually come along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canthai55 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The CG on a HD is way lower than a loaded AT. If both are laying on their sides I hazard that there is not much difference in CofG. HD way more heavy, and as said - if a 60kg girl can do it I would be ashamed to wait for help. Maybe buy a smaller bike if you can not handle a large one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi850m2 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Well a friend of mine here in Pattaya is gonna order one soon (gear change model) and his friend already ordered one. He said the price here is about the same as in Holland. I hope I will be allowed to take it for a spin later on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The CG on a HD is way lower than a loaded AT. If both are laying on their sides I hazard that there is not much difference in CofG. HD way more heavy, and as said - if a 60kg girl can do it I would be ashamed to wait for help. Maybe buy a smaller bike if you can not handle a large one. Right. When on their side the CG is like 6" above the ground for both. The upright hog's CG might be 14-16" up and the upright loaded AT's CG = 22-24" AGL. Big difference. papa has done trail lifts on rough ground that required total effort. ...and that on an unladen Kawasaki KLR650; 1/2 the weight of an outfitted AT. In a parking lot, most girls can get their bikes upright without even touching it. Big power. Good advice. papa has mastered 150cc bike, so taking off to Laos on a 200cc soon. Movin' on up..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyF Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The CG on a HD is way lower than a loaded AT. If both are laying on their sides I hazard that there is not much difference in CofG. HD way more heavy, and as said - if a 60kg girl can do it I would be ashamed to wait for help. Maybe buy a smaller bike if you can not handle a large one. 30 kgs less is better than 30 kgs more, whichever way you spin it. I could lift my CR250 from its side very easily in my garage at 10am. Could probably do it 20 times before getting tired. After a long days riding, when it was covered in heavy mud, on a slope, with poor grip underfoot, arm pump and tired legs it was a different story. Less weight off road is good, especially when we are talking about a 240 kg bike (without mud, panniers etc). The old "man up" line doesn't really cut it. I'd prefer a lighter bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canthai55 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) What old man line. Simple fact. If you can not handle a large bike - get a small one. Coming home from work I came around the corner and there was a bright yellow Gold Wing, trailer attached, blocking both lanes of the road. Guy was the size of the Michelin man, his wife not far behind. Road was damp but not wet. He could not pick it up, and they were both standing there staring at the bike, but their levitation skills were not working. I weigh 80-85kg. Went to the bike, used the technique described above, got it upright, started it, and parked it on the shoulder for them. Do not know what all this talk of CofG, mud, etc means. Use the proper technique and it can be done. And that Honda weighed more than the AT I think. Google says 410kg - no weight for the added trailer. So over 50% more. Edited February 4, 2016 by canthai55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyF Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 What old man line. Simple fact. If you can not handle a large bike - get a small one. Coming home from work I came around the corner and there was a bright yellow Gold Wing, trailer attached, blocking both lanes of the road. Guy was the size of the Michelin man, his wife not far behind. Road was damp but not wet. He could not pick it up, and they were both standing there staring at the bike, but their levitation skills were not working. I weigh 80-85kg. Went to the bike, used the technique described above, got it upright, started it, and parked it on the shoulder for them. Do not know what all this talk of CofG, mud, etc means. Use the proper technique and it can be done. And that Honda weighed more than the AT I think. Google says 410kg - no weight for the added trailer. So over 50% more. I'm impressed, I trust you were wearing your underpants outside your trousers while this daring rescue unfolded! I'll try to explain. It's designed to be ridden off road, so if you're using it for it's intended purpose there's a good chance you won't be on the tarmac near your work place like your damsel in distress. You might be half way up (or down) a slippery slope, standing on an uneven surface, gravel or wet dirt, the bike might be caked in 20kgs of wet mud. You might be exhausted from a full days off road riding, you might not even be able to get to the correct side of the bike to apply your Ninja technique if it's just fallen in a tight area. There's a very good reason that companies try and make their off road bikes lighter, it makes them easier and more fun to ride (plus easier to lift if you drop them). Just saying "you can't handle it" is nonsense - if we all did that we'd be standing around thumping our chests, looking at our 250kg sports bikes. I like this bike a lot, but for me it would be a lot more appealing if it was lighter like the original Africa Twin which was a touch over 200 kgs (dry). Of course, if you just want a rugged looking bike for touring, a few fire trails, adventure trips to Amazon (the coffee shop, not the jungle) then the weight won't matter too much and it will be a solid, dependable, comfy tourer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedy Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Please stay on topic, which is the Africa twin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisfeld Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 The Africa Twin surely is not an offroad bike in the sense of jumping over rocks and climbing the steepest slopes that there are. It's of course inferiour to 250cc,450cc etc real offroad bikes that weigh something around 150kg. It's more of a tourer that can also go on fire trails crossing some deserted plains in the middle of nowhere. And that's what I'm looking to do in terms of riding. So far, the Africa Twin seems to be a very good match for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 The Africa Twin surely is not an offroad bike in the sense of jumping over rocks and climbing the steepest slopes that there are. It's of course inferiour to 250cc,450cc etc real offroad bikes that weigh something around 150kg. It's more of a tourer that can also go on fire trails crossing some deserted plains in the middle of nowhere. And that's what I'm looking to do in terms of riding. So far, the Africa Twin seems to be a very good match for that. Isaan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi850m2 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 The Africa Twin surely is not an offroad bike in the sense of jumping over rocks and climbing the steepest slopes that there are. It's of course inferiour to 250cc,450cc etc real offroad bikes that weigh something around 150kg. It's more of a tourer that can also go on fire trails crossing some deserted plains in the middle of nowhere. And that's what I'm looking to do in terms of riding. So far, the Africa Twin seems to be a very good match for that. I have to agree after reading more about it on-line. It is just perfect for Thailand and the countries that borders Thailand north. The lack of service centers for Yamaha is just a no-go for me. Well it looks like a friend of mine here in Pattaya are gonna order a AT soon so I will see if I can have a go on it when he gets it. The question is; manual or auto? hmm something to think about but I think I will stick to gear pedal and clutch lever, I am old school, bike is lighter/cheaper too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLIGAD Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 The Africa Twin surely is not an offroad bike in the sense of jumping over rocks and climbing the steepest slopes that there are. It's of course inferiour to 250cc,450cc etc real offroad bikes that weigh something around 150kg. It's more of a tourer that can also go on fire trails crossing some deserted plains in the middle of nowhere. And that's what I'm looking to do in terms of riding. So far, the Africa Twin seems to be a very good match for that. I have to agree after reading more about it on-line.It is just perfect for Thailand and the countries that borders Thailand north. The lack of service centers for Yamaha is just a no-go for me. Well it looks like a friend of mine here in Pattaya are gonna order a AT soon so I will see if I can have a go on it when he gets it. The question is; manual or auto? hmm something to think about but I think I will stick to gear pedal and clutch lever, I am old school, bike is lighter/cheaper too. Agree. Although I have similar system in car, I wonder if it would take some of the enjoyment out of riding a big bike? The video's that I have seen suggest that it is in fact a fantastic system for both on-road and off-road.Think I'll stick to my ordered XRx though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi850m2 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Agree. Although I have similar system in car, I wonder if it would take some of the enjoyment out of riding a big bike? The video's that I have seen suggest that it is in fact a fantastic system for both on-road and off-road.Think I'll stick to my ordered XRx though. Yes it's a really hard choice if I indeed want a AT and there are off-course no options of changing your mind later on but to sell the bike and re-buy the type you want but at a considerable loss of money. When I see this DCT (dual clutch transmission) yes okay it seems fine & very cool but you have to push bottoms to go into sport mode 1-2 & 3 and so on or off-road mode or even manual shifting as seen on F1 cars. No man, I don't think so, on my bikes owned so far you twist the throttle and shift when you fell like it and don't have to go into sports mode 3 to get full acceleration up though the gears. Complicated mechanical/electronic systems too on a bike not made here makes it even more scary, who can fix it here in Thailand? The XCx is right on same money as AT and power as well but have different throttle maps/riding modes and abs on the rear wheel can be switched off (as on AT) during off-roading. Cruise control too which some testers was missing on the AT. Well in my opinion the AT will last forever due to low output and the comp is quite low as well enabling the engine to run on very low octane fuel and we don't even have a Triumph dealer here in Pattaya which is a no-go for me. Well this not something that gonna happen soon if I go for it, I am quite happy with my V650 m3 and since the oil off-shore industry is in big trouble right now, now is not the time shelling out big money on bikes, he-he. I would also like to see some comparison tests between the Tiger800 and AT first, on road/off-road. I will stay 99% on road myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canthai55 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I rode the NC700 - very nice on the road. Smooth, quiet. These bikes like the AT confuse me. Seems all about looks not performance - style over substance. Rode dirt bikes - real ones like YZ490, Husqvarna MX models, etc. At 240kg the AT is just a road bike tarted up to look the part of going to Dakar. Very porky to be going anywhere 'Off Road' than maybe a dirt track or a gravel road. And it better be dry or you will be on your keester. Want an off road bike - fine. But these have none of the benefits. Good to go to Starbucks in BKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi850m2 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I rode the NC700 - very nice on the road. Smooth, quiet. These bikes like the AT confuse me. Seems all about looks not performance - style over substance. Rode dirt bikes - real ones like YZ490, Husqvarna MX models, etc. At 240kg the AT is just a road bike tarted up to look the part of going to Dakar. Very porky to be going anywhere 'Off Road' than maybe a dirt track or a gravel road. And it better be dry or you will be on your keester. Want an off road bike - fine. But these have none of the benefits. Good to go to Starbucks in BKK Okay but how come the BMW GS1200 is one of the most popular world tourers? the GS1200 looks pretty porky too but is all business. Check some of the many tests of the new AF on YouTube which pretty much confirms that the AT is not about the looks but it means business if you wanna go to say Laos or Myanmar. Interesting in below clip, one guy prefer manual gear box if going mainly tarmac and auto if going primarily off-roading. If I go to Starbucks, I take my PCX and not my big bike. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6blDyHOQhXk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISTIANa9 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 BM suspension is better then others plus boxer engine sits lower so lower cg better maneuverability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canthai55 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Okay but how come the BMW GS1200 is one of the most popular world tourers? Just giving my opinion. I could never own a BMW boxer - the look just does not do it for me. Why are they so popular ? Beats me. Watching Long Way Round should be ample evidence of how unpractical they are off road. Good if you have 4 or 5 or 6 support vehicles behind you to carry your gear I suppose. With those aluminum garbage can-sized boxes bolted on both sides and the top - fugly. Used to travel to Alaska on the Top of the World highway with my HD. 150km of gravel road. Street tires. Never a problem. But Ride what you Like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canthai55 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Quote from another Northern Thailand motorcycle Forum describing the Pai MHS road during road works - However I wouldn’t be concerned about the Versys handling it. I did that road 2 weeks ago with 9 others on a combination of Honda 500x’s, Honda NC 750’s, Versys and triumph Bonnevilles. All handled the dust and mud and deep sand and rocks easily, real dramas were the vehicles passing on the inside on the curves on the roadworks. Posted 21 Dec 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi850m2 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Thankfully we all have our own opinions about bikes or we would all be riding the same and that would be boring as hell. Yes no doubt the versys is a very versatile bike, it's a poor mans do it all bike but for me a AT would be the natural next step up. I am not even sure I gonna buy a AT but are thinking about it. Papa al on this forum rides all over the place on his old cbr250, even Laos and it makes me wonder sometimes if he is smarter than the rest of us, not spending so much money on bikes but just go riding and no bullshit talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBJ Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 For Thailand the AT is the best all rounder. Slim, so a great commuter with off road and long touring capability. Can't wait, I'm buying one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLIGAD Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 For Thailand the AT is the best all rounder. Slim, so a great commuter with off road and long touring capability. Can't wait, I'm buying one!When will they be available in Bigwing and will there be a baiting period for delivery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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