AIDS in Pattaya

[sixthelement]

Hi all,

First off, I am not a heavy poster, and although I lurk around the forum some days, I am having no fun writing this to you.

I used to in Pattaya for 3 years and I have seen both the insanity and the family friendly lifestyle that the town offers.

It was also a great place for doing business back in the days.

Anyway, I still have many Thai friends there, and one off them had decided to set up a Clinic in the heart of the city (she was a nurse before) it was about one year ago.

I when to visit her last week, and she showed me around her business, she even offered me to screen my blood for MSTs, which I did.

We then sat down and out of the blue, I asked her 'what s the rate of walk in customers that get tested here and find out they are HIV+?

She literally does that all day, and she is not the blushit kind of people.

Her answer left me dumbfounded: 'about 60%' she said

I couldn't believe what I heard, so I asked her again.

I even asked her again before posting this to make sure.

She said that in most cases, Farang men would bring their woman to the clinic to test her.

She also said that the Gogo bar testing policy is pure blushit, and very veey few of them do it actually.

Do what you want with this post, I really couldn't care less.

But if it is a wake up call for at least a couple of guys here, then it wasn't worthless.

Bye

[partington]

It is good to be reminded that AIDS is not gone, and everyone should be aware of safe sex precautions and do their utmost to limit transmission.

However this estimate does not sound believable.

Recent (2014) studies reported by the Thai National AIDS committee in conjunction with a number of NGOs have shown approximately 1% of the Thai population is HIV+, and when the frequency among female sex workers (FSW) is estimated by statistical sampling the incidence in several different centres in 2014 ranged from 2.7% to 5%.

This is for female sex workers only, the population that your friend has identified as her main clients (men who have sex with men have a much higher incidence, but even this is reported as less than 30%). Her estimate of 60% for female sex workers is so extremely different from figures published in epidemiological studies over the past year that you have to conclude either her clinic is doing the tests wrong or she is trying to impress you with exaggerated claims.

The figures I have seen are from a THAI AIDS Committee report (Thailand:Ending AIDS") published this year http://www.unaids.org/sites/default/files/country/documents/THA_narrative_report_2015.pdf

"HIV prevalence among venue‐based FSW (female sex workers working from premises) has declined steadily from 2.7% in 2010 to 2.2% in 2012 and 1.1% in 2014. The most recent survey among NVB‐FSW (female sex workers working independently) in Chiang Mai, Phuket and Chonburi in 2010 found HIV prevalence about 5, 1.4, and 1.2% respectively." page 13

Given these figures, to believe that 60% of female sex workers are HIV+ in Pattaya is very difficult indeed.

[JakeSully]

What do you expect? Most johns prefer to do it without a raincoat.

[EmptyHead]

This 60% figure goes against actual data. Some people love to make up percentages for everything. I do it sometimes. But I don't belive her figure for a minute.

[lopburi3]

Are you sure there was no mix-up of HIV and HPV in conversation?

[robblok]

It is good to be reminded that AIDS is not gone, and everyone should be aware of safe sex precautions and do their utmost to limit transmission.

However this estimate does not sound believable.

Recent (2014) studies reported by the Thai National AIDS committee in conjunction with a number of NGOs have shown approximately 1% of the Thai population is HIV+, and when the frequency among female sex workers (FSW) is estimated by statistical sampling the incidence in several different centres in 2014 ranged from 2.7% to 5%.

This is for female sex workers only, the population that your friend has identified as her main clients (men who have sex with men have a much higher incidence, but even this is reported as less than 30%). Her estimate of 60% for female sex workers is so extremely different from figures published in epidemiological studies over the past year that you have to conclude either her clinic is doing the tests wrong or she is trying to impress you with exaggerated claims.

The figures I have seen are from a THAI AIDS Committee report (Thailand:Ending AIDS") published this year http://www.unaids.org/sites/default/files/country/documents/THA_narrative_report_2015.pdf

"HIV prevalence among venue‐based FSW (female sex workers working from premises) has declined steadily from 2.7% in 2010 to 2.2% in 2012 and 1.1% in 2014. The most recent survey among NVB‐FSW (female sex workers working independently) in Chiang Mai, Phuket and Chonburi in 2010 found HIV prevalence about 5, 1.4, and 1.2% respectively." page 13

Given these figures, to believe that 60% of female sex workers are HIV+ in Pattaya is very difficult indeed.

I love your posts just has to be said you always back your post up with facts. Well done AGAIN.

Not in Pattaya and would never consider having sex with a sex worker without protection. Just like it when facts and figures are brought into a discussion.

Edited August 9, 2015 by robblok

[sixthelement]

Thanks for the posts guys.

I also find it hard to believe, it would be just insane.

But I also don't understand why she would make this up.

As I said, she s on the front line, right in the middle of the red district of Pattaya, and she tests people for a living...

She also claims that according to the ministry of health, the prevalence of HIV among bar girls in oattaya is about 50%. (Far from your numbers)

It doesn't sound realistic but Giving the risk my friends there are taking, I wouldn't be surprise.

Thank you

[impulse]

Thanks for the heads up. Quite disturbing.

If one guy misses out on the infection because of your OP, I'd put it in the win column.

[NickJ]

I have a friend who is Thai and an MD. He works at a well known hospital in Pattaya.

Once we were talking and I asked him how many patients he has seen with HIV........

CLICK.....His reply sounded like it was a staged/rehearsed comment.........Its the same as the rest of the country......I would doubt that very much....

[Aussieroaming]

Interesting....my sister in law has aids. Gorgeous girl and sad outcome for her. A <deleted> disease with not much positive outcome.

[h90]

It is good to be reminded that AIDS is not gone, and everyone should be aware of safe sex precautions and do their utmost to limit transmission.

However this estimate does not sound believable.

Recent (2014) studies reported by the Thai National AIDS committee in conjunction with a number of NGOs have shown approximately 1% of the Thai population is HIV+, and when the frequency among female sex workers (FSW) is estimated by statistical sampling the incidence in several different centres in 2014 ranged from 2.7% to 5%.

This is for female sex workers only, the population that your friend has identified as her main clients (men who have sex with men have a much higher incidence, but even this is reported as less than 30%). Her estimate of 60% for female sex workers is so extremely different from figures published in epidemiological studies over the past year that you have to conclude either her clinic is doing the tests wrong or she is trying to impress you with exaggerated claims.

The figures I have seen are from a THAI AIDS Committee report (Thailand:Ending AIDS") published this year http://www.unaids.org/sites/default/files/country/documents/THA_narrative_report_2015.pdf

"HIV prevalence among venue‐based FSW (female sex workers working from premises) has declined steadily from 2.7% in 2010 to 2.2% in 2012 and 1.1% in 2014. The most recent survey among NVB‐FSW (female sex workers working independently) in Chiang Mai, Phuket and Chonburi in 2010 found HIV prevalence about 5, 1.4, and 1.2% respectively." page 13

Given these figures, to believe that 60% of female sex workers are HIV+ in Pattaya is very difficult indeed.

While I have troubles believing the 60% you have a logic mistake.

What you write are statistics. It could be that her clients often make the test because the suspect that they have HIV.

Either because they don't feel well, or because they had lot unprotected sex or even some that are tested positive and want to make a second test to be sure it was not a mistake.

That would explain a higher rate.....but 60% still sounds too much.

[Don Mega]

It is good to be reminded that AIDS is not gone, and everyone should be aware of safe sex precautions and do their utmost to limit transmission.

However this estimate does not sound believable.

Recent (2014) studies reported by the Thai National AIDS committee in conjunction with a number of NGOs have shown approximately 1% of the Thai population is HIV+, and when the frequency among female sex workers (FSW) is estimated by statistical sampling the incidence in several different centres in 2014 ranged from 2.7% to 5%.

This is for female sex workers only, the population that your friend has identified as her main clients (men who have sex with men have a much higher incidence, but even this is reported as less than 30%). Her estimate of 60% for female sex workers is so extremely different from figures published in epidemiological studies over the past year that you have to conclude either her clinic is doing the tests wrong or she is trying to impress you with exaggerated claims.

The figures I have seen are from a THAI AIDS Committee report (Thailand:Ending AIDS") published this year http://www.unaids.org/sites/default/files/country/documents/THA_narrative_report_2015.pdf

"HIV prevalence among venue‐based FSW (female sex workers working from premises) has declined steadily from 2.7% in 2010 to 2.2% in 2012 and 1.1% in 2014. The most recent survey among NVB‐FSW (female sex workers working independently) in Chiang Mai, Phuket and Chonburi in 2010 found HIV prevalence about 5, 1.4, and 1.2% respectively." page 13

Given these figures, to believe that 60% of female sex workers are HIV+ in Pattaya is very difficult indeed.

the 60% is of the people that visit the OP's friends clinic..... I doubt every single sex worker in Pattaya visit this one clinic.

[h90]

Thanks for the heads up. Quite disturbing.

If one guy misses out on the infection because of your OP, I'd put it in the win column.

It would make the OP a hero.

Lets say 1 ugly guy who don't like condoms is using one and not getting infected and than he does not infect several others

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

If Im one of those millions of men who come to Pattaya to bounce Money Cats against the bed then I would test before bouncing. It is interesting that some farang bring their money cats to the doc. Bouncing Money Cats and ex-Money Cats is risky business. Test is best. Piece of mind... then hit that behind

[impulse]

It is interesting that some farang bring their money cats to the doc.

And scary, too since it can take quite a while for the tests to come out positive.

• 12 weeks (3 months) after infection, about 97% of people will have enough antibodies to test positive

So wear your raincoat anyway. And you'll avoid child support payments, too.

Source: http://www.sfaf.org/hiv-info/testing/hiv-test-window-periods.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

Edited August 9, 2015 by impulse

[faraday]

Don't believe it for a moment. Sounds like she just to wanted to 'shock' you.

http://www.avert.org/hiv-aids-thailand.htm

[impulse]

Don't believe it for a moment. Sounds like she just to wanted to 'shock' you.

http://www.avert.org/hiv-aids-thailand.htm

As others have pointed out, that's the statistic for Thailand as a whole.

Distill that down to people walking into an AIDS clinic in a red light district because they suspect they have a problem, and I have no doubt it can run as high as 60%.

And if it scares some people into using protection, all the better.

[TommyUK1960]

I think you will find Hepatitis C kills more sex workers than Aids. Its the silent deadly killer and no cure.

[sixthelement]

I have just got an idea, i ll bring her here and you will ask your questions yourself.

She speaks very good english, and will be happy to inform you, maybe ;-)

[MaeJoMTB]

I have taken 2 sex workers for STD tests, despite both of them admitting to 1,000s of customers (each) without condoms, neither had any diseases.

Yes, I did read the results myself.

I have just got an idea, i ll bring her here and you will ask your questions yourself.
She speaks very good english, and will be happy to inform you, maybe ;-)

If your friend would lie to you, surely she would have no problem lying to someone she didn't know.

Not to mention, we don't know you either, not many posts, forum trolls often lie.

Are you some sort of puritan, trying to stop men using prostitutes.

So many reasons for you or her to try and scare people with lies.

Edited August 9, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[JakeSully]

I believe it because of the following...

If her figures are at 60%.. the farang had reason to doubt that they were not clean in the first place which is why most of them got tested. It just happened the farangs were right and 60% tested positive.

However there's plenty of thai's who didn't get tested.. more like 99%. So I can believe her 60% of the ones she tested, who farangs brought in because they apprehensive in the first place.

Just people trusting their instincts and wanting to be verified.. nothing more here.

[bamnutsak]

While one would expect the rate of all STD positive results, among sex workers - especially those who have a reason to go for testing, to be above the national averages, 60% positive for HIV seems high, to me. Could you have confused HPV with HIV?

Did your friend share any details? Sample size? Male, female, TG? Any intravenous drug users?

Even at past heights of HIV rates here, I'm not sure the percentage was much above 20 - 30 % among the highest risk groups (MSM) (except perhaps IDUs)?

Edited August 9, 2015 by bamnutsak

[Sea29Sky]

hi everyone ,

and thank you my friend that he post this topic . It' is good to share the opinion. I am the one that he mention. To be clear my 60%. mean the rate of walk in customers that get tested here and find out they are HIV+

I also do believe that a person who working in medical field always care and have the standard of testing .we respect and know what we do . Nobody want to make a mistake .

The basic knowledge i would share here is about the HIV Testing.

Anybody can get HIV, but you can take steps to protect yourself from HIV infection.

Get Tested and know your partner's HIV status.

Have less risky sex. Oral sex is much less risky than anal or vaginal sex. Anal sex is the most risky type of sex for the spread of HIV.

Use condoms.

Limit your number of sexual partners. If you have more than one sexual partner, get tested for HIV regularly. Get tested and treated for sexually transmitted infections (STIs) and insist that your partners do, too. Having STI can increase your risk of becoming infected with HIV.

Don't inject drugs.

HIV is spread through contact with the blood, semen, pre-seminal fluid, vaginal fluids, rectal fluids, or breast milk from a person infected with HIV

For people who think they may have been exposed to HIV, having a test and receiving a negative result (which means they are not infected with HIV), Can put their mind at rest .

BUT

Don't forget " The window period" is the term used to describe the period of time between HIV infection and the indicators of HIV infection showing up on the tests, such as antibodies and antigen . During this time a test may give a False Negative result, which mean the test will give a negative result even though a person Infected with HIV. A test must be taken after the window period for an accurate result. ** It's very important that if a person is infected with HIV, HIV transmission is possible to other during the window period.

There are a number of tests that are used to find out whether a person is infected with HIV. These include the HIV antibody test, p24 antigen test and rapid test. These testes are sometimes used in combination.

There are other types of HIV testing which are used once a person has been diagnosed with the virus such as CD4 test and viral load test.

HIV TESTS

1. Rapid test , HIV antibodies (window period : 3 months)

2. P24 Viral proteins (window period :11 days to one month)

3. Fourth generation tests ; HIV antibodies& p24 viral proteins (window period :11 days to one month)

4. PCR/ NAT Test; Genetic materal belonging to HIV (window period :12 days)

Thanks all

wish you and your family always healthy.

[sixthelement]

Thank you for joining!

I think that they want to know who are your daily walk in customers, and why is the rate so high.

As you just explained to me, many of them already know they are HIV+ and need to test their blood regularly... Etc

I think it is worth getting deeper into this aspect of the topic.

Thanks

[impulse]

As you just explained to me, many of them already know they are HIV+ and need to test their blood regularly... Etc

Holey moley.

Useful information to ponder. Mark down today on the calendar...

Good post!

Edited August 9, 2015 by impulse

[fish fingers]

I have taken 2 sex workers for STD tests, despite both of them admitting to 1,000s of customers (each) without condoms, neither had any diseases.

Yes, I did read the results myself.

See I find this hard to believe too. A sex worker who has slept with 1000 international perverts is bound to be carrying at least one HPV strain and very likely Herpes

[Benjie]

It is good to be reminded that AIDS is not gone, and everyone should be aware of safe sex precautions and do their utmost to limit transmission.

However this estimate does not sound believable.

Recent (2014) studies reported by the Thai National AIDS committee in conjunction with a number of NGOs have shown approximately 1% of the Thai population is HIV+, and when the frequency among female sex workers (FSW) is estimated by statistical sampling the incidence in several different centres in 2014 ranged from 2.7% to 5%.

This is for female sex workers only, the population that your friend has identified as her main clients (men who have sex with men have a much higher incidence, but even this is reported as less than 30%). Her estimate of 60% for female sex workers is so extremely different from figures published in epidemiological studies over the past year that you have to conclude either her clinic is doing the tests wrong or she is trying to impress you with exaggerated claims.

The figures I have seen are from a THAI AIDS Committee report (Thailand:Ending AIDS") published this year http://www.unaids.org/sites/default/files/country/documents/THA_narrative_report_2015.pdf

"HIV prevalence among venue‐based FSW (female sex workers working from premises) has declined steadily from 2.7% in 2010 to 2.2% in 2012 and 1.1% in 2014. The most recent survey among NVB‐FSW (female sex workers working independently) in Chiang Mai, Phuket and Chonburi in 2010 found HIV prevalence about 5, 1.4, and 1.2% respectively." page 13

Given these figures, to believe that 60% of female sex workers are HIV+ in Pattaya is very difficult indeed.

So 1% of the population is HIV+ (a figure that includes children, old people, people who have never had sex or used drugs etc..) and you honestly believe that it's possible that regular sex workers would have an infection rate of only 1.2% or 1.4%? That's absurd.

[partington]

It is good to be reminded that AIDS is not gone, and everyone should be aware of safe sex precautions and do their utmost to limit transmission.

However this estimate does not sound believable.

Recent (2014) studies reported by the Thai National AIDS committee in conjunction with a number of NGOs have shown approximately 1% of the Thai population is HIV+, and when the frequency among female sex workers (FSW) is estimated by statistical sampling the incidence in several different centres in 2014 ranged from 2.7% to 5%.

This is for female sex workers only, the population that your friend has identified as her main clients (men who have sex with men have a much higher incidence, but even this is reported as less than 30%). Her estimate of 60% for female sex workers is so extremely different from figures published in epidemiological studies over the past year that you have to conclude either her clinic is doing the tests wrong or she is trying to impress you with exaggerated claims.

The figures I have seen are from a THAI AIDS Committee report (Thailand:Ending AIDS") published this year http://www.unaids.org/sites/default/files/country/documents/THA_narrative_report_2015.pdf

"HIV prevalence among venue‐based FSW (female sex workers working from premises) has declined steadily from 2.7% in 2010 to 2.2% in 2012 and 1.1% in 2014. The most recent survey among NVB‐FSW (female sex workers working independently) in Chiang Mai, Phuket and Chonburi in 2010 found HIV prevalence about 5, 1.4, and 1.2% respectively." page 13

Given these figures, to believe that 60% of female sex workers are HIV+ in Pattaya is very difficult indeed.

So 1% of the population is HIV+ (a figure that includes children, old people, people who have never had sex or used drugs etc..) and you honestly believe that it's possible that regular sex workers would have an infection rate of only 1.2% or 1.4%? That's absurd.

You are correct in calling attention to that figure of 1% of the population being HIV+ as being incorrect.

In the UNAIDS report I gave a link to, the figure of ~1% of the Thai population being HIV+ was for the year 2000 (my error), so is an overestimate.

For 2014 the figure was 445, 504 HIV+ in a total population of 65.1 million ( link as above post, page 7), that is, approximately 0.68% of the Thai population is currently HIV+.

[Benjie]

It is good to be reminded that AIDS is not gone, and everyone should be aware of safe sex precautions and do their utmost to limit transmission.

However this estimate does not sound believable.

Recent (2014) studies reported by the Thai National AIDS committee in conjunction with a number of NGOs have shown approximately 1% of the Thai population is HIV+, and when the frequency among female sex workers (FSW) is estimated by statistical sampling the incidence in several different centres in 2014 ranged from 2.7% to 5%.

This is for female sex workers only, the population that your friend has identified as her main clients (men who have sex with men have a much higher incidence, but even this is reported as less than 30%). Her estimate of 60% for female sex workers is so extremely different from figures published in epidemiological studies over the past year that you have to conclude either her clinic is doing the tests wrong or she is trying to impress you with exaggerated claims.

The figures I have seen are from a THAI AIDS Committee report (Thailand:Ending AIDS") published this year http://www.unaids.org/sites/default/files/country/documents/THA_narrative_report_2015.pdf

"HIV prevalence among venue‐based FSW (female sex workers working from premises) has declined steadily from 2.7% in 2010 to 2.2% in 2012 and 1.1% in 2014. The most recent survey among NVB‐FSW (female sex workers working independently) in Chiang Mai, Phuket and Chonburi in 2010 found HIV prevalence about 5, 1.4, and 1.2% respectively." page 13

Given these figures, to believe that 60% of female sex workers are HIV+ in Pattaya is very difficult indeed.

So 1% of the population is HIV+ (a figure that includes children, old people, people who have never had sex or used drugs etc..) and you honestly believe that it's possible that regular sex workers would have an infection rate of only 1.2% or 1.4%? That's absurd.

You are correct in calling attention to that figure of 1% of the population being HIV+ as being incorrect.

In the UNAIDS report I gave a link to, the figure of ~1% of the Thai population being HIV+ was for the year 2000 (my error), so is an overestimate.

For 2014 the figure was 445, 504 HIV+ in a total population of 65.1 million ( link as above post, page 7), that is, approximately 0.68% of the Thai population is currently HIV+.

So you are still suggesting that it's only twice as likely that a prostitute has HIV over general population including kids, elderly and those with no exposure?

How do you think people catch it?

EDIT - Adult prevalence is estimated at 1.1% - You are seriously suggesting that prostitutes will have the same prevalence as the ordinary adult population??????

Edited August 9, 2015 by Benjie

[Tolley]

I don't think the OP ever stated that the rate was 60 percent for the whole country.

So some posters need to get lessons in reading comprehension before they start blathering on about official statistics in Thailand and comparing it to walkins in a clinic in Pattaya an area with probably one of the highest rates of prostitution in the world.