Police chief to seek approval from ministry to make direct order of 150,000 Sig Sauer pistols

[casualbiker]

They are being supplied at the discounted (correct) price by the Royal Thai Police welfare office with low interest monthly payments.

Thai police blogspot here.. It seems that a questionnaire was sent out with a number of guns on offer and possible prices. The officers chose the SIG, just as 1 in 3 US police officers have!

Well, in the hope of "transparency", why not just release all these details for the public to review?

I am honestly not sure how qualified current Thai police officers are in evaluating firearm options, no doubt some are, especially via a "questionnaire"?

Maybe better to set up in independent panel (with citizens representation) to evaluate the mission(s), requirements, budget. Evaluate several manufacturers/models, short-list a few, then have an approved vendor list, of at least two or three models?

Or you could just push through a blanket PO while no one is looking, and then deal with the mess for the next 20 years.

Why? The people aren't paying for them with their tax money the police officers are paying for them. Do you honestly think that police forces anywhere else in the world have independent panels with civilians on board to decide on procourment.

These are tried and tested weapons not prototype's etc.

If the police officers want to buy them I don't see a problem!

Ohh and from the few police officers that I've interacted with concerning guns, they are very safety oriented!

As I've said before I think that considering approximately 200,000 officers carry guns, police gun incidents in Thailand are very low.

Edited August 10, 2015 by casualbiker

[fxe1200]

And what happens to the 150,000 pistols that these new ones will replace???

I think we all know the answer...........!

Don't think anyone has to be Einstein to figure that one out.

No, that is easy: 150.000 will be added up to the 10 Million weapons existing in Thailand already. That makes it 10.150.000 guns plus the new 150.000 Sig Sauers for the police

[bamnutsak]

As I've said before I think that considering approximately 200,000 officers carry guns, police gun incidents in Thailand are very low.

No argument here. One hears very little about on-duty firearm discharges here (other than accidental), maybe more about off-duty incidents when police officers are "moonlighting"?

My beef is more with the "procurement" cycle.

Public money will be used to finance the scheme, at least as far as has been described in the English-language press.

It is not unusual, in the U.S., for local LEO to have civilian oversight, and independent, third-party, outside evaluation of firearm requirements, evaluation and selection.

[arrowsdawdle]

He seems anxious to get this deal done before he retires.

I wonder why?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/842025-somyot-wants-new-pistols-for-thai-police/

Simple math suggests 30% typical facilitation fee for an 18,000 baht Sig times 150,00 equals 900 million baht.

[Dogbreath]

Unless they want the barrel threaded for a silencer - the max list price is $499 (499*35=17,465 baht) and as low as $425 (425*35= 14,875 baht).

150,000 @ Bt18,000 = Bt2.7bn.

And don't forget the 15% "commission".

What could go wrong with this plan?

Did someone say "fire engine"?

So they're getting these for just over $500??? Seems really low.

http://www.sigsauer.com/LawEnforcement/Le-Mil-Agency-Direct-Sales.aspx

http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/CmsContent/documents/2015-SIG-SAUER-LE-IOP-Pricelist.pdf

Not sure where you get these prices. But the U.S. MSRP SHOWN ON THE SIGSAUER homepage is $628.00-$713.00 for the carry version.

The price list is factory wholesale to law enforcement, I believe.

[Emster23]

I hear these guns will have special adaptation for Thailand: they will go off half cocked. Any plans in the works for instructing police when, where and how to shoot? I recall couple of years ago they tried to shoot out tires of some farang going up Pratumnak hill in Jomtien. Cops were across street from each other and , you guessed it, one cop shot the other. At least no civilians nailed.

[mojorison]

Will these be available at Chatuchak, or just online?

[FangFerang]

Yes, the linked price sheet shows a lower price for one than he is quoting. Maybe it includes shipping, which would be significant. Worst of all, the revenue department is saying the guns are for personal use, and therefore are subject to the import tariff, which is around 100%.

A good fiction writer could not make up this stuff.

[sunshine51]

So they're getting these for just over $500??? Seems really low.

Discount for bulk purchase...not uncommon in the arms industry.

[Seastallion]

He seems anxious to get this deal done before he retires.

I wonder why?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/842025-somyot-wants-new-pistols-for-thai-police/

Possibly because the 18000 baht quoted is the price rounded up. That is what they will sell for. The difference between 18000 and the actual price, say 17600, is sheer profit.

[Jim walker]

Soon the market will be flooded with nice new cheap guns for shooting ex-wives and ex-girlfriends and general family members, this amount of guns Thailand will end up like the Wild West just look how well the Americans handle their guns only this morning in the news a US family all murdered by ex-boyfriend imagine a gun in young men’s hands who have totally no self-control of their actions like a young Thai man.

[casualbiker]

He seems anxious to get this deal done before he retires.

I wonder why?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/842025-somyot-wants-new-pistols-for-thai-police/

Possibly because the 18000 baht quoted is the price rounded up. That is what they will sell for. The difference between 18000 and the actual price, say 17600, is sheer profit.

Considering it's the police welfare fund coordinating the purchase then that's where the profit will go to help facilitate the monthly payment scheme. 18,000 baht is about the right price for this handgun minus the taxes!

[tigermoth]

The police should not carry guns, particularly in Thailand. As said in another post only a small elite and trained force need have them and also the police department should own and issue these weapons so an accurate inventory can be kept and the weapon returned when the officer retires or leaves. 150,000 extra weapons on the streets is sheer lunacy.

[Ulic]

Just what exactly is his cut going to be?

[fred Kubasa]

Would they, like normal conscientious/informed purchasers, require a sample shipment of, say, 100, to be inspected/tested/verified

before placing the major order ? Have they vetted the maker ? Or, and I am afraid it is, just another Golf ball detector or Drunk-o- meter- story to tell one's grandchildren ?

[casualbiker]

Would they, like normal conscientious/informed purchasers, require a sample shipment of, say, 100, to be inspected/tested/verified

before placing the major order ? Have they vetted the maker ? Or, and I am afraid it is, just another Golf ball detector or Drunk-o- meter- story to tell one's grandchildren ?

Fred. This hand gun is the number one police force weapon in the USA it was designed as a police carry weapon. It's not a prototype or a small company!

[bangrak]

Soon the market will be flooded with nice new cheap guns for shooting ex-wives and ex-girlfriends and general family members, this amount of guns Thailand will end up like the Wild West just look how well the Americans handle their guns only this morning in the news a US family all murdered by ex-boyfriend imagine a gun in young men’s hands who have totally no self-control of their actions like a young Thai man.

Good nobody ever told you about the number of illegally 'owned' weapons in Thailand, many hundred, ...of thousands! The largest part coming from police officers, officials and civil servants, as there is no decent inventory system in place, and, whenever once asked, excuses for the 'disappearance' of the gun(s) such as: lost, forgot about it, or, cannot find now, etc., are considered acceptable... Oh, and for even more lethal stuff, some 'friendly people' in the armed forces can provide assault rifles, machine guns, pistols, RPGs, grenades, explosives, not only to Burmese hilltribes, but also to the Muslim terrorists in the South (who use such f.i. against... soldiers!), to ultra-violent gangs (drugs, extortion), and to your crazy neighbour preparing WW3!

[retarius]

What a total waste of money....the police have guns already why do they need to be upgraded....don't the ones they have shoot? Spend the money on something worthwhile

[sammygood]

gun for personal use?

so you mean, for the other activities the police here are engaged in ?

[cracker1]

150,000 @ Bt18,000 = Bt2.7bn.

And don't forget the 15% "commission".

What could go wrong with this plan?

Did someone say "fire engine"?

So they're getting these for just over $500??? Seems really low.

http://www.sigsauer.com/LawEnforcement/Le-Mil-Agency-Direct-Sales.aspx

http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/CmsContent/documents/2015-SIG-SAUER-LE-IOP-Pricelist.pdf

[casualbiker]

What a total waste of money....the police have guns already why do they need to be upgraded....don't the ones they have shoot? Spend the money on something worthwhile

The police officers are buying their own guns!

[Time Traveller]

So they're getting these for just over $500??? Seems really low.

When you're buying 150,000, you sometimes do get a discount.

[bangrak]

Would they, like normal conscientious/informed purchasers, require a sample shipment of, say, 100, to be inspected/tested/verified

before placing the major order ? Have they vetted the maker ? Or, and I am afraid it is, just another Golf ball detector or Drunk-o- meter- story to tell one's grandchildren ?

Fred. This hand gun is the number one police force weapon in the USA it was designed as a police carry weapon. It's not a prototype or a small company!

OK gunny, so, in your opinion there should not not be a State official procurement procedure for these handguns, and it's logical the coppers decide for themselves? Yeah, right! When that would really be so, it would be some shiny pistol in .45ACP, THE male attribute (//penis extension) in Thailand!

A specialist like you for sure knows many (most?) Sig Sauer pistols are manufactured in the USA (not in Switserland), and, also, that many other, 'excellent' pistols are 'designed as a police carry weapon', with safety as the 2nd top item (just behind reliability), and produced by well-established companies like specialists Glock and Heckler & Koch, or Smith & Wesson MP, Springfield, CZ, and many others (it's a core market).

It will also not have escaped to you that most first world democratic countries (not 'gun country' US of A!) attempt to reduce to a minimum the number of LEOs on duty(!) carrying a gun, and limit the carry weapons to Double Action Only ones (above a decocker safety), for evident safety reasons, but that here in Thailand it looks like going in the exact opposite direction...

[bangrak]

What a total waste of money....the police have guns already why do they need to be upgraded....don't the ones they have shoot? Spend the money on something worthwhile

The police officers are buying their own guns!

...And that should be changed/reformed, now, at once, like for them having to buy their uniforms and equipment!

[casualbiker]

Would they, like normal conscientious/informed purchasers, require a sample shipment of, say, 100, to be inspected/tested/verified

before placing the major order ? Have they vetted the maker ? Or, and I am afraid it is, just another Golf ball detector or Drunk-o- meter- story to tell one's grandchildren ?

Fred. This hand gun is the number one police force weapon in the USA it was designed as a police carry weapon. It's not a prototype or a small company!

OK gunny, so, in your opinion there should not not be a State official procurement procedure for these handguns, and it's logical the coppers decide for themselves? Yeah, right! When that would really be so, it would be some shiny pistol in .45ACP, THE male attribute (//penis extension) in Thailand!

A specialist like you for sure knows many (most?) Sig Sauer pistols are manufactured in the USA (not in Switserland), and, also, that many other, 'excellent' pistols are 'designed as a police carry weapon', with safety as the 2nd top item (just behind reliability), and produced by well-established companies like specialists Glock and Heckler & Koch, or Smith & Wesson MP, Springfield, CZ, and many others (it's a core market).

It will also not have escaped to you that most first world democratic countries (not 'gun country' US of A!) attempt to reduce to a minimum the number of LEOs on duty(!) carrying a gun, and limit the carry weapons to Double Action Only ones (above a decocker safety), for evident safety reasons, but that here in Thailand it looks like going in the exact opposite direction...

If you read the threads you will see my thoughts. Off course police official weapons should be purchased by the police force and logged and strictly administered.

I also understand that there are other companies available BUT it would seem that this SIG Sauer was chosen. I was simply answering your ridiculous assertion about the makers weapons being like a golf ball detector which is patently untrue.

Have you got any information regarding the reduction of armed police officers in first world democratic countries?

[casualbiker]

What a total waste of money....the police have guns already why do they need to be upgraded....don't the ones they have shoot? Spend the money on something worthwhile

The police officers are buying their own guns!

...And that should be changed/reformed, now, at once, like for them having to buy their uniforms and equipment!

I agree. I also wonder IF That's the reason that their is so much urgency in the purchase. To try and show/force Prayuth to start proper equipment resources allocations!

[mango66]

the 150.000 used ones will be granted to the carriers and MPs as a curtesy for their

honest work in RTP with the pistols,

and the reminder,

to put them never in a toilet bag !!

The PO must go direct from the RTP-

as for registration of the ser numbers and policeman who receives the dedicated gun;

If the numbers would go trough an other ministery -

missuse could occur !

But With RTP you can be 100% sure, all will be according to the law !!

[mango66]

Would they, like normal conscientious/informed purchasers, require a sample shipment of, say, 100, to be inspected/tested/verified

before placing the major order ? Have they vetted the maker ? Or, and I am afraid it is, just another Golf ball detector or Drunk-o- meter- story to tell one's grandchildren ?

Fred. This hand gun is the number one police force weapon in the USA it was designed as a police carry weapon. It's not a prototype or a small company!

OK gunny, so, in your opinion there should not not be a State official procurement procedure for these handguns, and it's logical the coppers decide for themselves? Yeah, right! When that would really be so, it would be some shiny pistol in .45ACP, THE male attribute (//penis extension) in Thailand!

A specialist like you for sure knows many (most?) Sig Sauer pistols are manufactured in the USA (not in Switserland), and, also, that many other, 'excellent' pistols are 'designed as a police carry weapon', with safety as the 2nd top item (just behind reliability), and produced by well-established companies like specialists Glock and Heckler & Koch, or Smith & Wesson MP, Springfield, CZ, and many others (it's a core market).

It will also not have escaped to you that most first world democratic countries (not 'gun country' US of A!) attempt to reduce to a minimum the number of LEOs on duty(!) carrying a gun, and limit the carry weapons to Double Action Only ones (above a decocker safety), for evident safety reasons, but that here in Thailand it looks like going in the exact opposite direction...

To be effective to get the target -

you need - must have an automatic gun,

the more pullets the magacine can keep,

the better it is !!

[casualbiker]

Would they, like normal conscientious/informed purchasers, require a sample shipment of, say, 100, to be inspected/tested/verified

before placing the major order ? Have they vetted the maker ? Or, and I am afraid it is, just another Golf ball detector or Drunk-o- meter- story to tell one's grandchildren ?

Fred. This hand gun is the number one police force weapon in the USA it was designed as a police carry weapon. It's not a prototype or a small company!

OK gunny, so, in your opinion there should not not be a State official procurement procedure for these handguns, and it's logical the coppers decide for themselves? Yeah, right! When that would really be so, it would be some shiny pistol in .45ACP, THE male attribute (//penis extension) in Thailand!

A specialist like you for sure knows many (most?) Sig Sauer pistols are manufactured in the USA (not in Switserland), and, also, that many other, 'excellent' pistols are 'designed as a police carry weapon', with safety as the 2nd top item (just behind reliability), and produced by well-established companies like specialists Glock and Heckler & Koch, or Smith & Wesson MP, Springfield, CZ, and many others (it's a core market).

It will also not have escaped to you that most first world democratic countries (not 'gun country' US of A!) attempt to reduce to a minimum the number of LEOs on duty(!) carrying a gun, and limit the carry weapons to Double Action Only ones (above a decocker safety), for evident safety reasons, but that here in Thailand it looks like going in the exact opposite direction...

I saw this on a review of the gun

" Our test P320 came with the standard double-action-style trigger with very little "slack." I found the two-stage trigger press to be smooth and not at all gritty. "

[rapom]

Would they, like normal conscientious/informed purchasers, require a sample shipment of, say, 100, to be inspected/tested/verified

before placing the major order ? Have they vetted the maker ? Or, and I am afraid it is, just another Golf ball detector or Drunk-o- meter- story to tell one's grandchildren ?

Fred. This hand gun is the number one police force weapon in the USA it was designed as a police carry weapon. It's not a prototype or a small company!

In the top 10, but nowhere near being number 1. I believe more police departments use Glock's and S&W's than Sig's.