Retirement Visa From A 30-day Arrival Stamp

[wpcoe]

Yesterday I went to the Pattaya Immigrations office with my USA passport containing a 30-day stamp dated 03Sept'06. They accept my passport, documentation, and forms, and this afternoon I picked up my passport, complete with a new 90-day Non Immigrant O visa which was extended to one-year for "Retirement". Woo hoo! So, yes, it can be done.

Several friends and ex-colleagues of mine are in the same boat as I had been: "living" in Thailand (for years) on 30-day passport stamps. They are all US citizens and over 50 yrs old. I created a web page for them to follow the process I went through. The intended audience for that web page is these folks, but I'm going to ask for feedback from the many knowledgable folks here on thaivisa.com. Please be kind <g>, but see if the information I have there sounds correct and logical, if I might have forgotten something, etc. "For your eyes only," if you are interested in helping me: my webpage

Many thanks for all the information I got here preparing me to go to the Immigrations office.

[Maestro]

...but see if the information I have there sounds correct

Good of you to have written up your experience. The possibility to change from a visa-exempt 30-day entry stamp directly to non-O status is part of the new changes introduced over the past few days.

So far, I see only one error on your page: you mixed up the fees in steps 3 and 4. The fee is 2,000 Baht for the TM.87 (change visa status), 1,900 Baht for the TM.7 (extension of stay)

---------------

Maestro

[Maestro]

If you prefer to give links to the forms available on the web site of the Immigration Bureau, as Microsoft Word documents, these links are as follows:

TM.87 http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/tm87.doc

TM.7 http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/tm7.doc

TM.8 http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/tm8.doc

TM.47 http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/tm47.doc

The advantage would be that if any of these forms change in future, your link will point to the latest version, but it is of course also possible that the Immigration Bureau might change the URL.

Links to these forms, except TM.87 (but I guess it will be added soon), are also available on the ThaiVisa site at this URL:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=41308

---------------

Maestro

[wpcoe]

Thanks, maestro! I just now swapped the fees for the TM.87 and TM.7, so it should be correct now. They charged me a lump sum of B3900, and I got it backward.

I used scanned copies of the forms because several of my "audience" don't have Word. FWIW, when I imported the .doc files into WordPerfect, they got a bit scrambled, and I wasn't sure the Immigrations folks would accept them.

If one *did* use the .doc files, is it acceptable to just type in the information requested, or does Immigration prefer written by hand, do you know? (or care? hahaha!)

[lopburi3]

The forms are computer fill type and Immigration does accept the forms thus filled out.

[wpcoe]

Thanks for the clarification, lopburi3.

Upon further consideration, I added the links to the .doc files to the web page.

[LoveDaBlues]

Well here's my story. Since November 2005 I have brought roughly 2.5 million baht into the kingdom. I bought (for cash) a new Fortuner in December 2005. In August 2006 I paid 460K baht for land.

Today I had all my paperwork in order INCLUDING the 'Letter of Certification' for my 65,000 baht a month income requirement. I currently have a multi-entry non-imm 'o' visa. It expires on Sept. 30 2006. I was turned down for the retirement visa!

Reason? He said my bankbook didn't show 65,000 baht deposited each month. Nowhere on the Thai Embassy website or in the requirements documentation that I was given does it say you must move the money month after month and show a history. It just says you have to have the 'Letter of Certification' to prove you have the income.

Oh well TiT.

Glad to see you had such good luck in Pattaya.

[Khutan]

FYI;

There is a flow chart and a process at both Suan Phlu and the One-Stop shop, to show exacly how to convert a 30 day entry stamp to a Non-O or a Non-B visa. There seem between 9 and 15 steps on the process (or 9 - 15 pieces of paper), so the process does exist.

My Immigration Lawyer says its not too hard to do and quted me a number of cases where he has done exactly that.

But wpcoe, good for you for doing it yourself, and congratulations

[sleepyjohn]

Thanx for the info.

I have several friends screwed up by this and two are on the point of leaving the country.

My question which I would like to help them with is:

Is it possible to upgrade from the 30 day to the O visa without the retirement part?

Thanx v much

[Maestro]

I used scanned copies of the forms because several of my "audience" don't have Word. FWIW, when I imported the .doc files into WordPerfect, they got a bit scrambled,...

Microsoft Word documents are indeed not the ideal format for downloadable documents from the web and I certainly would never open such document from an unknown source. It makes it easier for Immigration, probably, if the forms are filled out on the computer: easier to read. They went to quite some trouble to create forms where one can tab from one field to the next, some with drop-down lists to select the appropriate item. I wonder, though, how many people actually fill out the forms on the computer. One in a thousand, perhaps.

PDF and JPG are safer formats for the Internet.

---------------

Maestro

[Krub]

Well here's my story. Since November 2005 I have brought roughly 2.5 million baht into the kingdom. I bought (for cash) a new Fortuner in December 2005. In August 2006 I paid 460K baht for land.

Today I had all my paperwork in order INCLUDING the 'Letter of Certification' for my 65,000 baht a month income requirement. I currently have a multi-entry non-imm 'o' visa. It expires on Sept. 30 2006. I was turned down for the retirement visa!

Reason? He said my bankbook didn't show 65,000 baht deposited each month. Nowhere on the Thai Embassy website or in the requirements documentation that I was given does it say you must move the money month after month and show a history. It just says you have to have the 'Letter of Certification' to prove you have the income.

Oh well TiT.

Glad to see you had such good luck in Pattaya.

Where did you apply ? You could maybe re-apply with a balance of 800k

[tartempion]

Who, that's bad.

I got two retirement extensions in Bangkok based on a certified embassy letter but never had an 800k

balance in my passbook and I certainly don't transfer 65k each month.

My understanding is you do not need to have 800k nor 65k each month, just showing you have teh income....

But I do transfer anywhere between 500k and 1.500k /year depending on my spending (bought a car last year and building house right now)

And I do not plan to spend 800k every year.

[LoveDaBlues]

Well here's my story. Since November 2005 I have brought roughly 2.5 million baht into the kingdom. I bought (for cash) a new Fortuner in December 2005. In August 2006 I paid 460K baht for land.

Today I had all my paperwork in order INCLUDING the 'Letter of Certification' for my 65,000 baht a month income requirement. I currently have a multi-entry non-imm 'o' visa. It expires on Sept. 30 2006. I was turned down for the retirement visa!

Reason? He said my bankbook didn't show 65,000 baht deposited each month. Nowhere on the Thai Embassy website or in the requirements documentation that I was given does it say you must move the money month after month and show a history. It just says you have to have the 'Letter of Certification' to prove you have the income.

Oh well TiT.

Glad to see you had such good luck in Pattaya.

Where did you apply ? You could maybe re-apply with a balance of 800k

I applied in Udon Thani (Nong Khai extension branch). Yes, I could re-apply with the 800k. But it would cost me an additional $2,400 USD over the November 2005 exchange rate; not a 'hit' I'm willing to take simply because a paper-pusher has made his own rules. I've followed the law here in Thailand carefully. I've got a Thai driver's license. The rules for qualifying for the retirement visa are on the internet for the world to see. I followed them and got sh1t on. TiT.

Who, that's bad.

I got two retirement extensions in Bangkok based on a certified embassy letter but never had an 800k

balance in my passbook and I certainly don't transfer 65k each month.

My understanding is you do not need to have 800k nor 65k each month, just showing you have teh income....

But I do transfer anywhere between 500k and 1.500k /year depending on my spending (bought a car last year and building house right now)

And I do not plan to spend 800k every year.

My understanding of the 'rules' is the same as yours. I guess it just depends where you go and what Immigration Officer you get.

[Krub]

Well here's my story. Since November 2005 I have brought roughly 2.5 million baht into the kingdom. I bought (for cash) a new Fortuner in December 2005. In August 2006 I paid 460K baht for land.

Today I had all my paperwork in order INCLUDING the 'Letter of Certification' for my 65,000 baht a month income requirement. I currently have a multi-entry non-imm 'o' visa. It expires on Sept. 30 2006. I was turned down for the retirement visa!

Reason? He said my bankbook didn't show 65,000 baht deposited each month. Nowhere on the Thai Embassy website or in the requirements documentation that I was given does it say you must move the money month after month and show a history. It just says you have to have the 'Letter of Certification' to prove you have the income.

Oh well TiT.

Glad to see you had such good luck in Pattaya.

Where did you apply ? You could maybe re-apply with a balance of 800k

I applied in Udon Thani (Nong Khai extension branch). Yes, I could re-apply with the 800k. But it would cost me an additional $2,400 USD over the November 2005 exchange rate; not a 'hit' I'm willing to take simply because a paper-pusher has made his own rules. I've followed the law here in Thailand carefully. I've got a Thai driver's license. The rules for qualifying for the retirement visa are on the internet for the world to see. I followed them and got sh1t on. TiT.

Who, that's bad.

I got two retirement extensions in Bangkok based on a certified embassy letter but never had an 800k

balance in my passbook and I certainly don't transfer 65k each month.

My understanding is you do not need to have 800k nor 65k each month, just showing you have teh income....

But I do transfer anywhere between 500k and 1.500k /year depending on my spending (bought a car last year and building house right now)

And I do not plan to spend 800k every year.

My understanding of the 'rules' is the same as yours. I guess it just depends where you go and what Immigration Officer you get.

I would try at another immigration office with the papers.

The immigration in Nan were very helpful and not busy at all.

They however asked for copies in double of all papers including application form. They also asked for a letter from Embassy stating adress in Thailand.

Good luck

[sleepyjohn]

I applied in Udon Thani (Nong Khai extension branch). Yes, I could re-apply with the 800k. But it would cost me an additional $2,400 USD over the November 2005 exchange rate; not a 'hit' I'm willing to take simply because a paper-pusher has made his own rules.

Actually you do not need to exchange your money.

I put my "800k" in a pounds sterling account here. The foreign currency accounts pay very well considering we're in Thailand. The rates for various access times including instant access are available in a table in the last page but one of the BKK Post. See BKK bank and Kasikorn bank tables not central bank. When my baht acct gets low I top it up from the GBP acct, getting the Telex Transfer rate on the exchange automatically which is also very fair.

Good Luck.

Edited September 23, 2006 by sleepyjohn

[wpcoe]

Actually you do not need to exchange your money.

I put my "800k" in a pounds sterling account here. The foreign currency accounts pay very well considering we're in Thailand. The rates for various access times including instant access are available in a table in the last page but one of the BKK Post. See BKK bank and Kasikorn bank tables not central bank. When my baht acct gets low I top it up from the GBP acct, getting the Telex

Fascinating alternative that I hadn't heard of. I'll keep it in mind for my annual renewals. Thanks!

[Krub]

I applied in Udon Thani (Nong Khai extension branch). Yes, I could re-apply with the 800k. But it would cost me an additional $2,400 USD over the November 2005 exchange rate; not a 'hit' I'm willing to take simply because a paper-pusher has made his own rules.

Actually you do not need to exchange your money.

I put my "800k" in a pounds sterling account here. The foreign currency accounts pay very well considering we're in Thailand. The rates for various access times including instant access are available in a table in the last page but one of the BKK Post. See BKK bank and Kasikorn bank tables not central bank. When my baht acct gets low I top it up from the GBP acct, getting the Telex Transfer rate on the exchange automatically which is also very fair.

Good Luck.

Very interresting. Do you get a statement from BKK Bank for your deposit in Sterking that is accespted by immigration instead of 800k ?

[JimGant]

The possibility to change from a visa-exempt 30-day entry stamp directly to non-O status is part of the new changes introduced over the past few days.

Great news -- and obviously true, as wpcoe found out (at least in Pattaya). I thought I kept pretty current on these things, but I sure missed this. Are there any links to officialdom mentioning this?

wp, out of curiosity, how'd you get alerted to this? (And I think your website is super -- I'm sure it will be bookmarked by many.)

I wonder how long the TM87's been around(?). Its title ("Application for Visa") denotes something that recently wasn't possible inside Thailand. In fact, the TM86 (Application for Change of Visa), used to change a tourist visa to a Non Immigrant visa, is a fairly recent procedure.

Couple other nice things about this:

If you're out-of-country at extension renewal time, you just come back in on a 30-day stamp and start the extension process over again, with everything about the same as required for renewal, except for the 2000 bt conversion fee. However, this is probably a bargain when you consider the time and money needed to visit an embassy/consulate to get another visa. (And now, maybe your new, later in the year renewal date fits better into your travel schedule.)

Forgot (or didn't have the time) to get a reentry stamp? Pay an extra 2000 bt (net, 1000 bt) for the oversight. Of course if you left right after your last extension renewal, you've pretty much wasted the 1900 bt extension fee you paid for it. But, again, time and money *not* wasted on visiting an embassy/consulate could be worth it.

Also, with the 30-day stamp procedure, it would appear you can start the ball rolling for your extension immediately. If you enter with a Non Imm, the published procedure was you had to wait for 60 days before applying for the extension (although exceptions were noted). Now, get the job done soonest.

Neat.

[LoveDaBlues]

Well here's my story. Since November 2005 I have brought roughly 2.5 million baht into the kingdom. I bought (for cash) a new Fortuner in December 2005. In August 2006 I paid 460K baht for land.

Today I had all my paperwork in order INCLUDING the 'Letter of Certification' for my 65,000 baht a month income requirement. I currently have a multi-entry non-imm 'o' visa. It expires on Sept. 30 2006. I was turned down for the retirement visa!

Reason? He said my bankbook didn't show 65,000 baht deposited each month. Nowhere on the Thai Embassy website or in the requirements documentation that I was given does it say you must move the money month after month and show a history. It just says you have to have the 'Letter of Certification' to prove you have the income.

Oh well TiT.

Glad to see you had such good luck in Pattaya.

Where did you apply ? You could maybe re-apply with a balance of 800k

I applied in Udon Thani (Nong Khai extension branch). Yes, I could re-apply with the 800k. But it would cost me an additional $2,400 USD over the November 2005 exchange rate; not a 'hit' I'm willing to take simply because a paper-pusher has made his own rules. I've followed the law here in Thailand carefully. I've got a Thai driver's license. The rules for qualifying for the retirement visa are on the internet for the world to see. I followed them and got sh1t on. TiT.

Who, that's bad.

I got two retirement extensions in Bangkok based on a certified embassy letter but never had an 800k

balance in my passbook and I certainly don't transfer 65k each month.

My understanding is you do not need to have 800k nor 65k each month, just showing you have teh income....

But I do transfer anywhere between 500k and 1.500k /year depending on my spending (bought a car last year and building house right now)

And I do not plan to spend 800k every year.

My understanding of the 'rules' is the same as yours. I guess it just depends where you go and what Immigration Officer you get.

I would try at another immigration office with the papers.

The immigration in Nan were very helpful and not busy at all.They however asked for copies in double of all papers including application form. They also asked for a letter from Embassy stating adress in Thailand.

Good luck

I'm not familiar with 'Nan'; can you be more specific please? Thanks.

[Krub]

Well here's my story. Since November 2005 I have brought roughly 2.5 million baht into the kingdom. I bought (for cash) a new Fortuner in December 2005. In August 2006 I paid 460K baht for land.

Today I had all my paperwork in order INCLUDING the 'Letter of Certification' for my 65,000 baht a month income requirement. I currently have a multi-entry non-imm 'o' visa. It expires on Sept. 30 2006. I was turned down for the retirement visa!

Reason? He said my bankbook didn't show 65,000 baht deposited each month. Nowhere on the Thai Embassy website or in the requirements documentation that I was given does it say you must move the money month after month and show a history. It just says you have to have the 'Letter of Certification' to prove you have the income.

Oh well TiT.

//Oversize image removed//

Edited September 23, 2006 by lopburi3

[wpcoe]

wp, out of curiosity, how'd you get alerted to this? (And I think your website is super -- I'm sure it will be bookmarked by many.)

My original intent was to take a quick trip to Hong Kong and get a Non-Immigrant O (or Tourist, if not) Visa and then apply for Retirement Visa after I re-entered Thailand.

I decided to stop by Pattaya Immigrations to run through the Retirement Visa process to make sure I had it straight. Just in the course of conversation, the officer told me I didn't need a visa of any sort, I could "convert" my existing 30-day passport stamp. My jaw dropped, I got a big smile, and thanked him profusely.

The folks at the Pattaya Immigrations office are very professional and efficient, their English is VERY good, and a few of them seem to have a very dry sense of humor. The facility itself is brand new, bright and comfortable.

[sleepyjohn]

I applied in Udon Thani (Nong Khai extension branch). Yes, I could re-apply with the 800k. But it would cost me an additional $2,400 USD over the November 2005 exchange rate; not a 'hit' I'm willing to take simply because a paper-pusher has made his own rules.

Actually you do not need to exchange your money.

I put my "800k" in a pounds sterling account here. The foreign currency accounts pay very well considering we're in Thailand. The rates for various access times including instant access are available in a table in the last page but one of the BKK Post. See BKK bank and Kasikorn bank tables not central bank. When my baht acct gets low I top it up from the GBP acct, getting the Telex Transfer rate on the exchange automatically which is also very fair.

Good Luck.

Very interresting. Do you get a statement from BKK Bank for your deposit in Sterking that is accespted by immigration instead of 800k ?

Immigration requires more than passbook or regular statement, they seem to require a letter from your bank, so that's what I get for a hundred or two hundred baht stating the amount in my sterling acct also stating the equivalent in baht plus any baht one happens to have in baht acct also.

BTW the savings rates for foreign currency I stated are in the last page but one of the BKK Post BUSINESS SECTION I hope that was obvious.

Glad to be of help.

[JimGant]

Just in the course of conversation, the officer told me I didn't need a visa of any sort

Could I have your license number for my next lottery ticket........

[partington]

Brilliant and informative post, thanks wpcoe. As a sideline, did you find it easy to both get a bank account and rent a permanent place to live with just a 30 day stamp? Both obviously necessary to go through the procedure you describe. Thanks again

[wpcoe]

Brilliant and informative post, thanks wpcoe. As a sideline, did you find it easy to both get a bank account and rent a permanent place to live with just a 30 day stamp? Both obviously necessary to go through the procedure you describe. Thanks again

In order to get the Tor Tor 3 when I bought my Jomtien condo in December 2004, I needed a bank account, and both Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial Bank advised me over the telephone that I could, and explained where to apply. I chose SCB only because I seemed to recall seeing more SCB ATMs and branches in Pattaya/Jomtien. I gave them my passport (with 30-day arrival stamp) and they made copies of whatever page(s) they needed. I was living in BKK at the time and SCB required that I go to their main office to open the account. IIRC, I could have gone to a Bangkok Bank branch to do the same.

A few months ago, I went into an SCB branch in Jomtien and the branch manager convinced me to open a local account here. (Seems the usage of an ATM card is based on the province in which issued. If you use the ATM card outside the province, there is an ATM usage fee.) She opened a new savings account at her branch, with only a copy of my passport, and she also opened a separate interest-bearing bond fund account for me. That fund is "SCB Savings Fixed Income Open End Fund (SCBSFF)" and so far has been paying just above 4% interest. Again, all she needed was a copy of my passport with a 30-day stamp. The SCBSFF requires a minimum balance of B50,000. After I got the retirement visa, I immediately went to SCB and transferred the bulk of my money into the SCBSFF account. :-)

Before moving to Jomtien, I lived in Bangkok for five years, and rented two apartments and a townhouse, again with only my passport and 30-day entry stamp.

So, if my experience is any indication, a farang should have no trouble renting an apartment, getting a regular (low, low interest) savings account or even a bond fund account, with just a 30-day stamp in their passport.

[wpcoe]

Could I have your license number for my next lottery ticket........

And, my commission (for winnings only, of course), would be.....?

[Krub]

Brilliant and informative post, thanks wpcoe. As a sideline, did you find it easy to both get a bank account and rent a permanent place to live with just a 30 day stamp? Both obviously necessary to go through the procedure you describe. Thanks again

In order to get the Tor Tor 3 when I bought my Jomtien condo in December 2004, I needed a bank account, and both Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial Bank advised me over the telephone that I could, and explained where to apply. I chose SCB only because I seemed to recall seeing more SCB ATMs and branches in Pattaya/Jomtien. I gave them my passport (with 30-day arrival stamp) and they made copies of whatever page(s) they needed. I was living in BKK at the time and SCB required that I go to their main office to open the account. IIRC, I could have gone to a Bangkok Bank branch to do the same.

A few months ago, I went into an SCB branch in Jomtien and the branch manager convinced me to open a local account here. (Seems the usage of an ATM card is based on the province in which issued. If you use the ATM card outside the province, there is an ATM usage fee.) She opened a new savings account at her branch, with only a copy of my passport, and she also opened a separate interest-bearing bond fund account for me. That fund is "SCB Savings Fixed Income Open End Fund (SCBSFF)" and so far has been paying just above 4% interest. Again, all she needed was a copy of my passport with a 30-day stamp. The SCBSFF requires a minimum balance of B50,000. After I got the retirement visa, I immediately went to SCB and transferred the bulk of my money into the SCBSFF account. :-)

Before moving to Jomtien, I lived in Bangkok for five years, and rented two apartments and a townhouse, again with only my passport and 30-day entry stamp.

So, if my experience is any indication, a farang should have no trouble renting an apartment, getting a regular (low, low interest) savings account or even a bond fund account, with just a 30-day stamp in their passport.

Hi, I am interrested in the SCBSFF account

Is it possible to withdraw from it with ATM or via internet banking ?

How is the interrest calculated on daily balances ?

Thanks

[Krub]

Well here's my story. Since November 2005 I have brought roughly 2.5 million baht into the kingdom. I bought (for cash) a new Fortuner in December 2005. In August 2006 I paid 460K baht for land.

Today I had all my paperwork in order INCLUDING the 'Letter of Certification' for my 65,000 baht a month income requirement. I currently have a multi-entry non-imm 'o' visa. It expires on Sept. 30 2006. I was turned down for the retirement visa!

Reason? He said my bankbook didn't show 65,000 baht deposited each month. Nowhere on the Thai Embassy website or in the requirements documentation that I was given does it say you must move the money month after month and show a history. It just says you have to have the 'Letter of Certification' to prove you have the income.

Oh well TiT.

//Oversize image removed//

For those who are interrested, here is the detail of the Nan immigration office which is located beside the airfield of the Nan airport (200km north-east of Uttaradit or 300km north east of Phitsanoluk) The roads are very good and the office is very very quiet and nearly empty.

Although it is very near the Lao boarder there is no boarder crossing for non Thai/Lao passport holders around Nan.

Tel :0-5475-0039

Address:

652 Moo.3 Tumbol phasing

Amphoe Mueang

Changwat Nan 55000

Edited September 24, 2006 by Krub

[Naam]

"Actually you do not need to exchange your money. I put my "800k" in a pounds sterling account here. The foreign currency accounts pay very well considering we're in Thailand."

you are lucky being a Brit and thinking in GBP. i am a German with mostly US-Dollar income and would have lost shirt and shoes by not changing USD into THB in time for home, cars, etc.

Thai Baht appreciated 15% against Dollar during the last 15 months!

[JimGant]

did you find it easy to both get a bank account and rent a permanent place to live with just a 30 day stamp? Both obviously necessary to go through the procedure you describe.

WP,

Did you have to show you tor tor 3 -- or a certificate of residence -- during this process? As far as I know, you could be living in a hotel to get your retirement extension (i.e., proof of condo ownership or a rental agreement is NOT needed to get a retirement extension).