Taxation question capital gains and education visa

[paz]

Just because you don't have a residence, that does not mean you are not liable for taxes. If you are an American citizen of the good old US of A, the IRS wants you no matter where you live or don't live. And that is just the federal level. Depending on what State you are from or last filed taxes in, they may want to talk to you also, especially if you are maintaining any ID from that state.

Beside that there is no indication whatsoever that OP is American, things are not as simple and plain as you write.

At federal level, an America ows taxes mainly when there is no specific tax treaty with the country of residence. And Thailand, for example has a tax treaty with the US:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thailand.pdf

Second, there are limitation and exclusions based on the income amount, they way it was earned, and other 1,000 factors. It is called tax planning and rich people pay money to have it done.

Finally, about you claim that even state taxes are due after having moved out of state, that is just laughable. You're welcome to post any evidence about that, but don't break your nails while climbing on mirrors.

[cerox]

I'm thankful for the help, but I don't understand why everbody is bashing each other. I thought the topic Thailand would be something people here have in common in order to have discussions without flaming at each other. Whatever, I don't really care, just saying it's strange to me

I'm not American, but I know that I have to speak to a tax advisor in my country, even after leaving the country and having no relations left. It's good that you point it out, because many people forget that

So I'll definitely speak to a tax adviser in my country. My topic here was more related to the taxes in Thailand.

[paz]

I'm thankful for the help, but I don't understand why everbody is bashing each other. I thought the topic Thailand would be something people here have in common in order to have discussions without flaming at each other. Whatever, I don't really care, just saying it's strange to me

Not strange, as I told you this is the way many western foreigners behave in Thailand, on forums or otherwise. Not everyone is happy, peaceful or tolerant.

Edited August 11, 2015 by paz

[cerox]

I don't want to insult anybody, but many of you might know the youtube videos about this guy "American in Bangkok" - for me he is the perfect example. If he behaves like in his videos in Thailand, it's no surprise he has problems every single day.

Anyway, there were lots of helpful replies here, so thanks for that

[khunPer]

OP Cerox, I can see Thai bank account is mentioned, so just wish to add little off topic from your original questions, but might be useful for you.

From recent treads and personal knowledge from friends, not all Thai banks will today open an account on a passport with a Tourist Visa only, but some will; so just shop around, normally Bangkok Bank and K-Bank (Kasikorn) among others do it.

Thai banks shall look for “whitewash”, but I presume that will be larger amounts than normal living costs (that’s of course relative), which you don’t need to declare, as user Paz said. You can voluntary declare larger amounts equivalent to $50k and up as/for investment, making them eligible for later transfer out of Thailand.

I regular transfer money from abroad, my bank in my home country, to a Thai Bank; mainly Bangkok Bank, and sometimes SCB (Siam Commercial Bank). I have never in my 12 years with Thai bank account(s) had any problems; money normally arrives within 3 bank days. I use Internet Banking, which is cheap, and pay only fee in my home country (or the country you transfer from); the receiving fees shall be paid in Thailand. That is, that even you pay fees due in the receiving bank, to the bank of the country you transfer from, you will still be charged some fees in Thailand; and it seems like some double charging appears. Furthermore, it is advised to transfer in foreign currency only, never Thai baht, as the Thai baht exchange rate normally is slightly better in Thailand. Some says, that Bangkok Bank is the fastest way to transfer (as other bank's transfers comes via Bangkok Bank and therefore takes one day longer, but maybe that’s outdated now?), others (real estate agents I know) has mentioned that K-Bank has little better exchange rates.

You mentioned, “gambling, trading”. If you speculate in exchange rate – Thai baht has gone up and down quite a bit during the last decade – and if you decide to move larger amounts, like 6-12 month livings costs or whatever, into Thailand when the exchange rate is in your favor, you can “park” the money in a so-called Fund Book. Most banks, if not all, have them, and that can for example be low risk accumulating bonds, which over a year gains about the same, or little more, than a 12-month fixed bank account; but there is no withholding tax (15%) or capital gain tax. When selling, your money is the your normal bank account the following bank-day. I’m a regular used of that method for some 10-years now, and it has worked well and to my benefit. K-Bank has a very informative webpage in English, which can enlighten you a bit more; the other banks mainly have information in Thai language. K-bank’s asset management is: http://www.kasikornasset.com/EN/Pages/Disclaimer.aspx

PS: Just a remark to your comment “too good to be true”. You have not mentioned which country your come from, but in my European home country they changed the tax rules due to an EU-directive just when I moved to Thailand, so I’m not taxable of interest in my home country; nor capital gains from stock market; and even not gains of money in my retirement savings, including withholding tax on national stock dividends; some foreign stock dividends, like US, are withheld taxed with Thai-rate of 15 percent only. Great luck, as I then didn’t need the additional offshore banking, I had already planned; which was the (fully) legal way for tax-freedom before the change, the so-called “Singapore model”.

Even small savings can that way make living in Thailand possible.

[gk10002000]

Just because you don't have a residence, that does not mean you are not liable for taxes. If you are an American citizen of the good old US of A, the IRS wants you no matter where you live or don't live. And that is just the federal level. Depending on what State you are from or last filed taxes in, they may want to talk to you also, especially if you are maintaining any ID from that state.

Beside that there is no indication whatsoever that OP is American, things are not as simple and plain as you write.

At federal level, an America ows taxes mainly when there is no specific tax treaty with the country of residence. And Thailand, for example has a tax treaty with the US:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thailand.pdf

Second, there are limitation and exclusions based on the income amount, they way it was earned, and other 1,000 factors. It is called tax planning and rich people pay money to have it done.

Finally, about you claim that even state taxes are due after having moved out of state, that is just laughable. You're welcome to post any evidence about that, but don't break your nails while climbing on mirrors.

Well PAZ, you seem extra vitreous today and I see no reason for your obvious personal attack or tone of writing. I never claimed there was any indication the OP was an American. I simply wrote "If". As for your claim about tax treaties, that only applies to certain types of income. If an American is getting Social Security and investment income from US sources, (pension, stock dividends, bond interest, etc. ) that is all accountable to the IRS. Of course the person may have capital losses, writeoffs, deductions, etc and he may not owe any money, but there will certainly be forms involved. As far as states coming after taxes, I have no desire to go into any of my dealings with the several states I have been residents of, but I assure you, as I wrote, some states may want to talk to you. I never claimed nor wrote that state taxes are due after having moved.

In the future, it would endear you to others if you would be more civil in your responses.

[cerox]

Thanks for your help. This fund book sounds interesting, but I think there are better currencies than THB in terms of future appreciation. Nevertheless good to know, and an interesting option.

I'll try different banks. I think clothes can make a big difference as well, what I mean is, I would not expect them to be happy about opening my bank account if I arrived there in beach clothing.

I come from Germany, what about you?

[paz]

Well PAZ, you seem extra vitreous today and I see no reason for your obvious personal attack or tone of writing. I never claimed there was any indication the OP was an American. I simply wrote "If". As for your claim about tax treaties, that only applies to certain types of income. If an American is getting Social Security and investment income from US sources, (pension, stock dividends, bond interest, etc. ) that is all accountable to the IRS. Of course the person may have capital losses, writeoffs, deductions, etc and he may not owe any money, but there will certainly be forms involved. As far as states coming after taxes, I have no desire to go into any of my dealings with the several states I have been residents of, but I assure you, as I wrote, some states may want to talk to you. I never claimed nor wrote that state taxes are due after having moved.

In the future, it would endear you to others if you would be more civil in your responses.

Not been vitreous at all. I just stated facts instead of simplification as you did.

Anyway, we're debating about nothing, the OP is not American; not everyone is.

In the future try to avoid simplifications and conjectures, as well avoiding accusing others of being uncivil.

[paz]

Thanks for your help. This fund book sounds interesting, but I think there are better currencies than THB in terms of future appreciation. Nevertheless good to know, and an interesting option.

I'll try different banks. I think clothes can make a big difference as well, what I mean is, I would not expect them to be happy about opening my bank account if I arrived there in beach clothing.

I come from Germany, what about you?

Clothes don't make the difference you or others may think. If a branch clerk has been told to not open account to foreigners that is what he/she will do, normally mentioning that you need a work permit (which is false).

What makes the difference, as it was mentioned above, is to apply into certain banks at certain touristic locations.

Other branches will instead want you to be presented by a Thai national known to the bank.

[gk10002000]

Well PAZ, you seem extra vitreous today and I see no reason for your obvious personal attack or tone of writing. I never claimed there was any indication the OP was an American. I simply wrote "If". As for your claim about tax treaties, that only applies to certain types of income. If an American is getting Social Security and investment income from US sources, (pension, stock dividends, bond interest, etc. ) that is all accountable to the IRS. Of course the person may have capital losses, writeoffs, deductions, etc and he may not owe any money, but there will certainly be forms involved. As far as states coming after taxes, I have no desire to go into any of my dealings with the several states I have been residents of, but I assure you, as I wrote, some states may want to talk to you. I never claimed nor wrote that state taxes are due after having moved.

In the future, it would endear you to others if you would be more civil in your responses.

Not been vitreous at all. I just stated facts instead of simplification as you did.

Anyway, we're debating about nothing, the OP is not American; not everyone is.

In the future try to avoid simplifications and conjectures, as well avoiding accusing others of being uncivil.

What a joke. You didn't state anything, just your usual attack mode, while only reading what you want to read. Calling things "laughable". No matter.

[Soutpeel]

Just because you don't have a residence, that does not mean you are not liable for taxes. If you are an American citizen of the good old US of A, the IRS wants you no matter where you live or don't live. And that is just the federal level. Depending on what State you are from or last filed taxes in, they may want to talk to you also, especially if you are maintaining any ID from that state.

Beside that there is no indication whatsoever that OP is American, things are not as simple and plain as you write.

At federal level, an America ows taxes mainly when there is no specific tax treaty with the country of residence. And Thailand, for example has a tax treaty with the US:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thailand.pdf

Second, there are limitation and exclusions based on the income amount, they way it was earned, and other 1,000 factors. It is called tax planning and rich people pay money to have it done.

Finally, about you claim that even state taxes are due after having moved out of state, that is just laughable. You're welcome to post any evidence about that, but don't break your nails while climbing on mirrors.

Well PAZ, you seem extra vitreous today and I see no reason for your obvious personal attack or tone of writing. I never claimed there was any indication the OP was an American. I simply wrote "If". As for your claim about tax treaties, that only applies to certain types of income. If an American is getting Social Security and investment income from US sources, (pension, stock dividends, bond interest, etc. ) that is all accountable to the IRS. Of course the person may have capital losses, writeoffs, deductions, etc and he may not owe any money, but there will certainly be forms involved. As far as states coming after taxes, I have no desire to go into any of my dealings with the several states I have been residents of, but I assure you, as I wrote, some states may want to talk to you. I never claimed nor wrote that state taxes are due after having moved.

In the future, it would endear you to others if you would be more civil in your responses.

The OP stated 11 hours ago that he is not a USer so why you still banging on about IRS abd US tax protocols your comments related to the OP are irrelavant and completely off topic, if you want to discuss US taxes make your comments in the relavant threads on TV god knows there are enough of them on TV which discuss US tax, but even with number of threads on US taxes some posters feel obligated to invade other threads and try and make them all about the US

I shall await your response calling me anti american and stating i must be a commie or terrorist

[Soutpeel]

Thanks for your help. This fund book sounds interesting, but I think there are better currencies than THB in terms of future appreciation. Nevertheless good to know, and an interesting option.

I'll try different banks. I think clothes can make a big difference as well, what I mean is, I would not expect them to be happy about opening my bank account if I arrived there in beach clothing.

I come from Germany, what about you?

Clothes don't make the difference you or others may think. If a branch clerk has been told to not open account to foreigners that is what he/she will do, normally mentioning that you need a work permit (which is false).

What makes the difference, as it was mentioned above, is to apply into certain banks at certain touristic locations.

Other branches will instead want you to be presented by a Thai national known to the bank.

requiring a WP is not a false statement some banks per their own internal polices do and some dont, so it seems your the one making false statements

[cerox]

Thanks paz.

I'll do research in advance for banks in those tourist locations. I have a Thai national who can introduce me, that's no problem. I have to ask which bank he uses, maybe it's wise if he's already a customer of the same bank to make things easier.

Thanks gk10002000 for mentioning the American tax laws. Things are similar in Germany, that's why I'm planning to speak to a local tax advisor as well to avoid surprises later on, because of my citizenship.

I do not expect banks in any country to give me an account having only a tourist visa. So it's no bother for me to try different banks until somebody has either a good day or permission to give me an account Since I don't expect it, there are no hard feelings if things don't turn out my way.

[paz]

I'll do research in advance for banks in those tourist locations. I have a Thai national who can introduce me, that's no problem. I have to ask which bank he uses, maybe it's wise if he's already a customer of the same bank to make things easier.

It was mentioned before already: Kasikorn in touristic locations. For more information read and check banking forum.

[cerox]

PS: Just a remark to your comment “too good to be true”. You have not mentioned which country your come from, but in my European home country they changed the tax rules due to an EU-directive just when I moved to Thailand, so I’m not taxable of interest in my home country; nor capital gains from stock market; and even not gains of money in my retirement savings, including withholding tax on national stock dividends; some foreign stock dividends, like US, are withheld taxed with Thai-rate of 15 percent only. Great luck, as I then didn’t need the additional offshore banking, I had already planned; which was the (fully) legal way for tax-freedom before the change, the so-called “Singapore model”.

Even small savings can that way make living in Thailand possible.

Hi คุณเพอร์

may I ask which country you are from?

In Germany the tax law specifies that I'm not taxable if I don't have a residence in Germany, no rental or retirement income and of course no capital gains like stocks from German companies etc.

It states I'm not taxable if the capital gains do not come up within the country. All the brokers used for trading are abroad in other countries - the reason for that is not tax evasion, it's just that I never found a broker I liked in Europe suitable for my purpose.

A problem could be transferring money to Germany while I'm not a resident and have no taxable income. I'm not sure about that and have to do more research on that too.

[al007]

In simplistic terms if you are retired and not earning money in Thailand the likelihood is you will pay no taxes here, with the exception of tax deducted at source on interest paid on cash deposit accounts, and this can also be reclaimed

My understanding is pension income brought into thailand is not taxable here

Money brought in from savings is not taxable

If one has investment income outside thailand so long as it is not brought in , in the same year as earnt it also is not taxable

If you come from england and are non resident, you only pay tax on income generated in England, and if like me your pension is under the personal allowance you pay no tax

My QROPS pension suffers tax at 5% only in Gibraltar

Thailand is a very low tax place to live for expats, although USA citizens are still liable to USA tax on their world income, unless they revoke their US citizenship

[Soutpeel]

In simplistic terms if you are retired and not earning money in Thailand the likelihood is you will pay no taxes here, with the exception of tax deducted at source on interest paid on cash deposit accounts, and this can also be reclaimed

My understanding is pension income brought into thailand is not taxable here

Money brought in from savings is not taxable

If one has investment income outside thailand so long as it is not brought in , in the same year as earnt it also is not taxable

If you come from england and are non resident, you only pay tax on income generated in England, and if like me your pension is under the personal allowance you pay no tax

My QROPS pension suffers tax at 5% only in Gibraltar

Thailand is a very low tax place to live for expats, although USA citizens are still liable to USA tax on their world income, unless they revoke their US citizenship

Thailands tax rate for expats in Thailand earning more tham 128k USD pa in Thailand is 35% so not a "low tax place" in the least

[cerox]

Hi al007,

that's interesting. I did not know there is such a big difference between England and the US. Although, sometimes it is subject to interpretation of the tax adviser or it seems like that if you are taxable or not

The rules of taxable income within the country seem to be the same in many European countries, at least I can tell it seems to be the same in Germany and Italy.

[cerox]

Hi Soutpeel,

you're right 35% is not a low tax-rate You also mentioned "earnings in Thailand" which is also my understanding. So technically I don't have earnings in Thailand, neither from income, nor from investments in Thailand.

All the money I'd bring into Thailand would be savings and not earned in the same year. Please share your opinion about that if you see any problems. Thanks for your help

[Soutpeel]

Hi al007,

that's interesting. I did not know there is such a big difference between England and the US. Although, sometimes it is subject to interpretation of the tax adviser or it seems like that if you are taxable or not

The rules of taxable income within the country seem to be the same in many European countries, at least I can tell it seems to be the same in Germany and Italy.

Europe tax structues among the various countries is very similar in many respects certainly when countries are all members of the EU, would they love to get a "US" type tax model in place ? Yes they would

[Baerboxer]

Thanks paz.

I'll do research in advance for banks in those tourist locations. I have a Thai national who can introduce me, that's no problem. I have to ask which bank he uses, maybe it's wise if he's already a customer of the same bank to make things easier.

Thanks gk10002000 for mentioning the American tax laws. Things are similar in Germany, that's why I'm planning to speak to a local tax advisor as well to avoid surprises later on, because of my citizenship.

I do not expect banks in any country to give me an account having only a tourist visa. So it's no bother for me to try different banks until somebody has either a good day or permission to give me an account Since I don't expect it, there are no hard feelings if things don't turn out my way.

Kasikorn and Krungsri are helpful, IME. I have accounts with both, primarily the latter which is 77% Japanese owned (MUFG).

Always keep all paperwork records from any transactions. This can be helpful later if you want to send money out of Thailand; and showing that you brought money in and so didn't acquire it through working illegally if asked.

My understanding is that you can transfer any amount into Thailand in ThB i.e. do the conversion outside Thailand first with your bank. For foreign currency, in my case usually GBP or USD, transfers up to US$ 50k or equivalent can be done without having to complete paperwork to comply with BoT rules on large incoming FOREX amounts.

My experience, as a generalization, is that I get a better ER from the local bank so it's better to do the conversion here on amounts less than GBP 20k. For amounts above 30k I usually get a better special rate from my overseas bank. For figures in between I check as whose best varies.

For tax, go to the local tax office and register, get a tax ID. If you have some investments here and tax is deducted by the bank, then you can claim it back if your total income is below the threshold to pay tax. The bank provide a certified form to go with the tax form.

[SantiSuk]

KhunPer

Thanks very much, that's very useful. It's good to know private trading is not considered as work, because I would not consider it as work either. Living of savings is possible and thereby one does not have to pay taxes as I thought. Getting a tax number is fine, but with a tourist visa that sounds a bit funny.

I don't bother about claming back interest. I'll only make monthly payments on a Thai bank account, in order to spend the money. So the accumulating interest will be very small and does not justify the effort of claiming it back.

The strange thing is that I also have no tax obligation in my own country. I already spoke to the tax authorities in my country, and they told me I have no tax obligation after having no residence here and there is no income arising in my country. So effectively there would be no taxes at all, but it sounds too good to be true

Welcome to the wonderful world of being an expat. Once you qualify for non-residence in your home country (unless it has a penal worldwide income basis like the US) you lose at least some of the shackles of being taxed there - typically at least the tax you might otherwise pay on any income arising outside your home country. If you hit residence in a pay-dirt country that is a low tax regime or (in the case of Thailand) one that cannot be bothered to tax it's residents (for tax purposes) on overseas income, then there is an obvious hole in the global tax collection pocket. No need to explore the morality - tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion; either someone is deliberately attracting you to their home country to gain non-tax advantages or it's the fault of governments/tax authorities if they can't get heir acts together domestically or internationally.

If you work here then you will of course be taxed on those earnings - Thailand is not a low tax rate country - it just seems to be low taxation for those who earned their money elsewhere and can now choose where to invest their savings.

If you are able to legally claim that you do not work here, but in fact do so in your minds eye, then I don't get why you would feel so inclined to be fair-minded about paying tax. I guess what you are saying is that you want to work here legally and don't mind paying the tax and I can understand that, but it may be that Thailand would rule that you are not permitted to work here. I have no expertise to offer on that, but I would seek tax/legal advice here (or get it free at the Revenue office if you are prepared to live with a negative ruling).

A word for others - most falang who live here don't pay Thai taxes because, although they are resident for tax purposes they do not have earnings that arise here and the interest income they earn in Thailand is negligible or within the limits that allow them to recover any tax deducted at source. Many do however have a pension that arises in their home country and for some nationalities (like the UK) that means that they are liable for taxation at home on that, even though they are otherwise non-resident in their home country; whether they actually pay tax depends on the level of their income and available tax allowances in their home country.

PricewaterhouseCoopers Thailand does a good taxation booklet for those interested, though you OP have probably picked up most and beyond that already:

See "Thai Tax 2014 Booklet" button on this page http://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/index.jhtml

Good luck!

Former accountant/financial adviser [with PwC but not on taxation, not Thailand and not practising!]

Edited August 12, 2015 by SantiSuk

[Soutpeel]

KhunPer

Thanks very much, that's very useful. It's good to know private trading is not considered as work, because I would not consider it as work either. Living of savings is possible and thereby one does not have to pay taxes as I thought. Getting a tax number is fine, but with a tourist visa that sounds a bit funny.

I don't bother about claming back interest. I'll only make monthly payments on a Thai bank account, in order to spend the money. So the accumulating interest will be very small and does not justify the effort of claiming it back.

The strange thing is that I also have no tax obligation in my own country. I already spoke to the tax authorities in my country, and they told me I have no tax obligation after having no residence here and there is no income arising in my country. So effectively there would be no taxes at all, but it sounds too good to be true

Welcome to the wonderful world of being an expat. Once you qualify for non-residence in your home country (unless it has a penal worldwide income basis like the US) you lose at least some of the shackles of being taxed there - typically at least the tax you might otherwise pay on any income arising outside your home country. If you hit residence in a pay-dirt country that is a low tax regime or (in the case of Thailand) one that cannot be bothered to tax it's residents (for tax purposes) on overseas income, then there is an obvious hole in the global tax collection pocket. No need to explore the morality - tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion; either someone is deliberately attracting you to their home country to gain non-tax advantages or it's the fault of governments/tax authorities if they can't get heir acts together domestically or internationally.

If you work here then you will of course be taxed on those earnings - Thailand is not a low tax rate country - it just seems to be low taxation for those who earned their money elsewhere and can now choose where to invest their savings.

If you are able to legally claim that you do not work here, but in fact do so in your minds eye, then I don't get why you would feel so inclined to be fair-minded about paying tax. I guess what you are saying is that you want to work here legally and don't mind paying the tax and I can understand that, but it may be that Thailand would rule that you are not permitted to work here. I have no expertise to offer on that, but I would seek tax/legal advice here (or get it free at the Revenue office if you are prepared to live with a negative ruling).

A word for others - most falang who live here don't pay Thai taxes because, although they are resident for tax purposes they do not have earnings that arise here and the interest income they earn in Thailand is negligible or within the limits that allow them to recover any tax deducted at source. Many do however have a pension that arises in their home country and for some nationalities (like the UK) that means that they are liable for taxation at home on that, even though they are otherwise non-resident in their home country; whether they actually pay tax depends on the level of their income and available tax allowances in their home country.

PricewaterhouseCoopers Thailand does a good taxation booklet for those interested, though you OP have probably picked up most and beyond that already:

See "Thai Tax 2014 Booklet" button on this page http://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/index.jhtml

Good luck!

Former accountant/financial adviser [with PwC but not on taxation, not Thailand and not practising!]

And the last bit to add to this good post, if you do work here before you do start work here get your contract written in such a way that the company your working for carries your PIT locally

[khunPer]

In simplistic terms if you are retired and not earning money in Thailand the likelihood is you will pay no taxes here, with the exception of tax deducted at source on interest paid on cash deposit accounts, and this can also be reclaimed

My understanding is pension income brought into thailand is not taxable here

Money brought in from savings is not taxable

If one has investment income outside thailand so long as it is not brought in , in the same year as earnt it also is not taxable

If you come from england and are non resident, you only pay tax on income generated in England, and if like me your pension is under the personal allowance you pay no tax

My QROPS pension suffers tax at 5% only in Gibraltar

Thailand is a very low tax place to live for expats, although USA citizens are still liable to USA tax on their world income, unless they revoke their US citizenship

Thailands tax rate for expats in Thailand earning more tham 128k USD pa in Thailand is 35% so not a "low tax place" in the least

Thai tax for expats is very low, almost half at 35% top level, if you come from certain European companies...

Edited August 12, 2015 by khunPer

[Soutpeel]

In simplistic terms if you are retired and not earning money in Thailand the likelihood is you will pay no taxes here, with the exception of tax deducted at source on interest paid on cash deposit accounts, and this can also be reclaimed

My understanding is pension income brought into thailand is not taxable here

Money brought in from savings is not taxable

If one has investment income outside thailand so long as it is not brought in , in the same year as earnt it also is not taxable

If you come from england and are non resident, you only pay tax on income generated in England, and if like me your pension is under the personal allowance you pay no tax

My QROPS pension suffers tax at 5% only in Gibraltar

Thailand is a very low tax place to live for expats, although USA citizens are still liable to USA tax on their world income, unless they revoke their US citizenship

Thailands tax rate for expats in Thailand earning more tham 128k USD pa in Thailand is 35% so not a "low tax place" in the least

Thai tax for expats is very low, almost half at 35% top level, if you come from certain European companies...

The thai tax tables as stated do not differentiate between expats or locals if you are earning more than 128k USD with very few deductions as tax relief, the 35% is what is stated, this doesnt mean people pay 35% if their package is structured properly, unless your double contracting very few things you can do to get around PIT in Thailand as thw deductions are just not there for the most part

I for example have never paid PIT personally in 14 years working in Thailand as per my contract local taxes are the companies problem not mine, and as long as i get my tax letter every year from the Thai tax man stating i have no tax to pay for the previous year, i dont care what the company does, i am in the clear

[al007]

Hi al007,

that's interesting. I did not know there is such a big difference between England and the US. Although, sometimes it is subject to interpretation of the tax adviser or it seems like that if you are taxable or not

The rules of taxable income within the country seem to be the same in many European countries, at least I can tell it seems to be the same in Germany and Italy.

Europe tax structues among the various countries is very similar in many respects certainly when countries are all members of the EU, would they love to get a "US" type tax model in place ? Yes they would

I am but a simple Retired Chartered Accountant, non practising and not a specialist in tax, but with an above average knowledge on tax where I live, that has recently and currently(10yrs) been in the UK and Thailand

I also do not wish to evade any tax, also taxation was not a consideration when choosing to retire in Thailand, when I refer to thailand as being low to almost non existent, for tax, I am only referring to RETIRED People NOT those still working, or with income producing assets in Thailand

I have investigated tax here in Thailand several times due to my wish to pay what I genuinely owe, and believe my comments are correct

My comment on low tax also would exclude USA passport holders living in Thailand, because the USA still tax you, unlike the UK and some of Europe when you are not there

Further here in Thailand at present there are no real estate taxes, which in London and or Florida can be very substantial

On the other side free health care and social security are off the list for the expat, but I like being able to choose how I spend my money rather than the UK or USA enforcing healthcare costs on me

If anyone believes my understanding is misguided, please enlighten me

[khunPer]

PS: Just a remark to your comment “too good to be true”. You have not mentioned which country your come from, but in my European home country they changed the tax rules due to an EU-directive just when I moved to Thailand, so I’m not taxable of interest in my home country; nor capital gains from stock market; and even not gains of money in my retirement savings, including withholding tax on national stock dividends; some foreign stock dividends, like US, are withheld taxed with Thai-rate of 15 percent only. Great luck, as I then didn’t need the additional offshore banking, I had already planned; which was the (fully) legal way for tax-freedom before the change, the so-called “Singapore model”.

Even small savings can that way make living in Thailand possible.

Hi คุณเพอร์

may I ask which country you are from?

In Germany the tax law specifies that I'm not taxable if I don't have a residence in Germany, no rental or retirement income and of course no capital gains like stocks from German companies etc.

It states I'm not taxable if the capital gains do not come up within the country. All the brokers used for trading are abroad in other countries - the reason for that is not tax evasion, it's just that I never found a broker I liked in Europe suitable for my purpose.

A problem could be transferring money to Germany while I'm not a resident and have no taxable income. I'm not sure about that and have to do more research on that too.

I’m from neighboring Denmark. I know we have little different tax-rules compared to Germany, but I’m not aware of details (had no interest for me).

In Denmark the “trick” is to be resident outside EU and own no property (house) for full time residency (however, a summerhouse for max. 180-days use is permitted). A Dane can still have income (like work) from Denmark and retirement pension, both basic government and private, and is normal income taxed on payouts, with normal income deductions. However, there is one private retirement saving plan possibility with no income tax deducted at all (but also no deductions in income, when you save up), which still carries the same benefits in ongoing taxation before payout, as other retirement saving plans. If you are not resident (and that can just be resident in another EU country), any ongoing gain-tax during the saving period is omitted on most or all private retirement saving plans.

Any interest and capital gain from stock market are not taxed, when you are resident outside EU. You can still keep Danish bank account(s) and trade platform(s) for stock exchange. I’m not into rules for foreigners, but I know that many use a Danish trading platform – especially award winning Saxo Bank is popular – could be they are non-EU residents.

My remark about Thai baht and Fund books was not meant on speculation or trading, but the money needed for your expenses; living in Thailand you need local currency. Looking at THB over for example 15-years – the period of my interest – the THB has fluctuated something like +/- 20% around 37 THB for 1 euro; i.e. low point is 30 THB for 1 euro, and high point around 46 THB for 1 euro (was actually higher around 2006). If you consider 37 THB for 1 euro as the zero-level, then THB is just slightly over now, after the present Chinese devaluation; during the last few months it has been just around or slightly under. When the THB is near high or high – and that could be 46 THB or more for 1 euro – it’s worth transferring living expense money for some future time into Thailand, if you have cash available, and park the money here in a Fund book. 15-20% gain is Okay in my philosophy, especially compared to the other outer point at -20%, it’s 16 THB difference on 1 euro, or some 40% worst-case risk reduction. I’ve done it a number of times, when THB was close to or above the +20% mark, it’s only little more than a year ago THB was up there. I also used it when I planned to build my house here, and had the money set aside. Had I waited a couple of years, when I actually paid for the construction, my house would have been 15-17% more expensive – or I could not have spend the money I did – furthermore the accumulated gain from Thai fund books were even better, than the interest I could have earned keeping the money in a Danish bank account.

[khunPer]

In simplistic terms if you are retired and not earning money in Thailand the likelihood is you will pay no taxes here, with the exception of tax deducted at source on interest paid on cash deposit accounts, and this can also be reclaimed

My understanding is pension income brought into thailand is not taxable here

Money brought in from savings is not taxable

If one has investment income outside thailand so long as it is not brought in , in the same year as earnt it also is not taxable

If you come from england and are non resident, you only pay tax on income generated in England, and if like me your pension is under the personal allowance you pay no tax

My QROPS pension suffers tax at 5% only in Gibraltar

Thailand is a very low tax place to live for expats, although USA citizens are still liable to USA tax on their world income, unless they revoke their US citizenship

Thailands tax rate for expats in Thailand earning more tham 128k USD pa in Thailand is 35% so not a "low tax place" in the least

Thai tax for expats is very low, almost half at 35% top level, if you come from certain European companies...

The thai tax tables as stated do not differentiate between expats or locals if you are earning more than 128k USD with very few deductions as tax relief, the 35% is what is stated, this doesnt mean people pay 35% if their package is structured properly, unless your double contracting very few things you can do to get around PIT in Thailand as thw deductions are just not there for the most part

I for example have never paid PIT personally in 14 years working in Thailand as per my contract local taxes are the companies problem not mine, and as long as i get my tax letter every year from the Thai tax man stating i have no tax to pay for the previous year, i dont care what the company does, i am in the clear

It's still (a lot) less then 67% on everyting over 70k USD...

[cerox]

Thanks for your reply.

It seems to be the same in Germany. As long as you don't have a residence, no income in Germany, no retal property etc. you have no obligation for taxes.

The interesting thing I have to find out is if I can use my German bank accounts for transferring money. I can keep them, but I'm not sure whether the internal revenue service likes it.

[paz]

Thanks for your reply.

It seems to be the same in Germany. As long as you don't have a residence, no income in Germany, no retal property etc. you have no obligation for taxes.

The interesting thing I have to find out is if I can use my German bank accounts for transferring money. I can keep them, but I'm not sure whether the internal revenue service likes it.

There is no law or regulation against keeping how many bank accounts you can have anywhere you want, including you own country. Just having a bank account in a country does not constitute residency in that country. According to most recent international agreements, most countries are sharing this data with each other, but once again, funds in bank do no constitute income or basis for taxation.