Taxation question capital gains and education visa

[cerox]

That's right but what if I transfer money to that account every month although I don't live in that country? That's what I'm slightly worried about.

[paz]

That's right but what if I transfer money to that account every month although I don't live in that country? That's what I'm slightly worried about.

Why should you worry. There can be a million reasons all valid and legal. But the first is that you have right to banking services in your own country, your language and your culture.

[Soutpeel]

Thanks for your reply.

It seems to be the same in Germany. As long as you don't have a residence, no income in Germany, no retal property etc. you have no obligation for taxes.

The interesting thing I have to find out is if I can use my German bank accounts for transferring money. I can keep them, but I'm not sure whether the internal revenue service likes it.

There is no law or regulation against keeping how many bank accounts you can have anywhere you want, including you own country. Just having a bank account in a country does not constitute residency in that country. According to most recent international agreements, most countries are sharing this data with each other, but once again, funds in bank do no constitute income or basis for taxation.

Show me proof that MOST countries share this data on a regular and voluntary basis ? They dont - conspiracy theory statements

your posting false information again and not even sure what your talking about in the last sentence ?

Funds in a bank account can constitute a " presence " in country and serve as a basis for taxation - interest on a bank account for example is an income and if the interest earned is above a certain thresehold you are taxed on that money - so no cigar again

[Soutpeel]

That's right but what if I transfer money to that account every month although I don't live in that country? That's what I'm slightly worried about.

Why should you worry. There can be a million reasons all valid and legal. But the first is that you have right to banking services in your own country, your language and your culture.

"You have right to"

[Soutpeel]

That's right but what if I transfer money to that account every month although I don't live in that country? That's what I'm slightly worried about.

The company i work for transfers a large portion of my salary to a country i dont live in and have never lived in every month

This shouldnt be a concern for you

[al007]

That's right but what if I transfer money to that account every month although I don't live in that country? That's what I'm slightly worried about.

The company i work for transfers a large portion of my salary to a country i dont live in and have never lived in every month

This shouldnt be a concern for you

Originally I come from the Uk, I am retired, I am legitimately non resident for tax in the UK, I have no assets in the UK

My Uk pension is liable to Uk tax but below the personal allowance threshold so no tax

My Uk pension is paid to a UK bank

I also have an Isle of Man sterling bank account that I can use to keep things outside the UK, that have also not originated in the UK, I am aware of the sharing of information these days but my off shore account breaks no UK rules, nor Thailand rules, I also do not temp HMIT to look further because of transactions going through a UK account ( Uk banks have to inform HMIT of a large number of items that go through a persons bank account)

I believe I am clean and totally legal, well I hope so!!

[cerox]

Hey guys,

thanks for your replies.

My broker can transfer money to every bank account in my name, so also directly to Thailand - I already spoke to them about that. But there are several reasons I also want to transfer money to my account in Germany, after I'm gone. So I was not sure if the revenue service wonders why I'm still doing this although I have no residence and no income in Germany.

The law in Germany actually clearly states that after having no residence and no investments within the country (shares, dividends, real estate / rental income etc.) I'm not taxable anymore. BUT it does not state what happens if I don't pay taxes anywhere else. Maybe it's a loophole, maybe it's legal that people are not taxable this way. There must be a reason so many Europeans live in low- or non-tax countries or cities like Dubai, England/Ireland is also a paradise for traders.

[khunPer]

Thanks for your reply.

It seems to be the same in Germany. As long as you don't have a residence, no income in Germany, no retal property etc. you have no obligation for taxes.

The interesting thing I have to find out is if I can use my German bank accounts for transferring money. I can keep them, but I'm not sure whether the internal revenue service likes it.

There is no law or regulation against keeping how many bank accounts you can have anywhere you want, including you own country. Just having a bank account in a country does not constitute residency in that country. According to most recent international agreements, most countries are sharing this data with each other, but once again, funds in bank do no constitute income or basis for taxation.

Show me proof that MOST countries share this data on a regular and voluntary basis ? They dont - conspiracy theory statements

your posting false information again and not even sure what your talking about in the last sentence ?

Funds in a bank account can constitute a " presence " in country and serve as a basis for taxation - interest on a bank account for example is an income and if the interest earned is above a certain thresehold you are taxed on that money - so no cigar again

I don’t think you generalize like that, Soutpeel, I think that’s up to the individual country, and for EU also some common directives.

I my EU-country, Denmark, it is no problem at all to have a bank account (or several) and transfer money in and out, as long as I’m officially registered as non resident, especially when in 3rd country outside of EU. All banks in EU and a number of associated off-shore banks – Luxemburg banks are off-shore, even Luxemburg is member of EU – will share information, like interest and “whitewash”. So will Nordic bank’s branches in Singapore. If I’m living in and taxable to a EU-country, interest from my “off-shore” account in Luxemburg, or Switzerland or a Nordic bank in Singapore, will be reported to the authorities (tax department) in my EU-country of residence. Being resident in a 3rd country, outside EU, that may be dependent of national rules. US, for example, requests that information – the ongoing news stories for long time about Switzerland banks and US tax authorities (IRS?). I think Channel Island banks, especially for British citizens, also have some special rules. Germany may have different rules than Denmark, so OP Cerox need to check with his home country; often some auditor companies and lawyers have good information (probably in German language), if searching the Internet.

A problem has been people, having a registered residence offshore, but actually living/staying more than 180 days in their original home country; they are taxable in their home country, and if the tax department finds out, they are (very) “bad off”. Difficult within Schengen with no border controls, both for tax department and for the individual to prove; but living outside Schengen-area that should be easy with entry/exit stamps in your passport, and you can always ask the officer for a stamp when leaving, or entering, Schengen.

[Soutpeel]

Thanks for your reply.

It seems to be the same in Germany. As long as you don't have a residence, no income in Germany, no retal property etc. you have no obligation for taxes.

The interesting thing I have to find out is if I can use my German bank accounts for transferring money. I can keep them, but I'm not sure whether the internal revenue service likes it.

There is no law or regulation against keeping how many bank accounts you can have anywhere you want, including you own country. Just having a bank account in a country does not constitute residency in that country. According to most recent international agreements, most countries are sharing this data with each other, but once again, funds in bank do no constitute income or basis for taxation.

Show me proof that MOST countries share this data on a regular and voluntary basis ? They dont - conspiracy theory statements

your posting false information again and not even sure what your talking about in the last sentence ?

Funds in a bank account can constitute a " presence " in country and serve as a basis for taxation - interest on a bank account for example is an income and if the interest earned is above a certain thresehold you are taxed on that money - so no cigar again

I don’t think you generalize like that, Soutpeel, I think that’s up to the individual country, and for EU also some common directives.

I my EU-country, Denmark, it is no problem at all to have a bank account (or several) and transfer money in and out, as long as I’m officially registered as non resident, especially when in 3rd country outside of EU. All banks in EU and a number of associated off-shore banks – Luxemburg banks are off-shore, even Luxemburg is member of EU – will share information, like interest and “whitewash”. So will Nordic bank’s branches in Singapore. If I’m living in and taxable to a EU-country, interest from my “off-shore” account in Luxemburg, or Switzerland or a Nordic bank in Singapore, will be reported to the authorities (tax department) in my EU-country of residence. Being resident in a 3rd country, outside EU, that may be dependent of national rules. US, for example, requests that information – the ongoing news stories for long time about Switzerland banks and US tax authorities (IRS?). I think Channel Island banks, especially for British citizens, also have some special rules. Germany may have different rules than Denmark, so OP Cerox need to check with his home country; often some auditor companies and lawyers have good information (probably in German language), if searching the Internet.

A problem has been people, having a registered residence offshore, but actually living/staying more than 180 days in their original home country; they are taxable in their home country, and if the tax department finds out, they are (very) “bad off”. Difficult within Schengen with no border controls, both for tax department and for the individual to prove; but living outside Schengen-area that should be easy with entry/exit stamps in your passport, and you can always ask the officer for a stamp when leaving, or entering, Schengen.

The EU is not MOST countries as was stated, further the 180 day rule doesnt exist in a lot of countries the UK being one of them, which just happens to be in the EU and see as we are bring specific,

in the UK if you have an income source which originates in the UK even as person who is physically non resident in the UK you can be taxed on that money if you exceed the stated threseholds

The point of my post was to point out " so called facts" posted by one person are completely wrong it wasnt intended to get into specific countries tax regimes

[paz]

The law in Germany actually clearly states that after having no residence and no investments within the country (shares, dividends, real estate / rental income etc.) I'm not taxable anymore. BUT it does not state what happens if I don't pay taxes anywhere else. Maybe it's a loophole, maybe it's legal that people are not taxable this way. There must be a reason so many Europeans live in low- or non-tax countries or cities like Dubai, England/Ireland is also a paradise for traders.

If you don't have to pay taxes in Germany, it ends there for Germany, and where you have to pay is not their business. It's is called "scope of jurisdiction". And it is not a "loophole" and not a maybe. It's international law that makes sense.

[Soutpeel]

The law in Germany actually clearly states that after having no residence and no investments within the country (shares, dividends, real estate / rental income etc.) I'm not taxable anymore. BUT it does not state what happens if I don't pay taxes anywhere else. Maybe it's a loophole, maybe it's legal that people are not taxable this way. There must be a reason so many Europeans live in low- or non-tax countries or cities like Dubai, England/Ireland is also a paradise for traders.

If you don't have to pay taxes in Germany, it ends there for Germany, and where you have to pay is not their business. It's is called "scope of jurisdiction". And it is not a "loophole" and not a maybe. It's international law that makes sense.

"Scope of jurisdiction" Paz ? You have made that up didnt you ?

In tax matters there is no such thing as international law, given taxation laws are specfic to a certain country, there are however reciprocal tax agreements in place between many countries, these as named are agreements, not laws per se

One suspects the OP needs to be declared non resident in Germany for tax, on TV the best member to talk to about German tax structure is "Naam" or even his multi lingual gardener

[cerox]

Soutpeel,

could you please explain that further?

"on TV the best member to talk to about German tax structure is "Naam" or even his multi lingual gardener"

[Soutpeel]

Soutpeel,

could you please explain that further?

"on TV the best member to talk to about German tax structure is "Naam" or even his multi lingual gardener"

There is a German member called "Naam" on TV who is very good with stuff like this and suspect he will know the in's and outs of German taxation

[cerox]

Hi Soutpeel,

I understood that, but I meant which tv channel, where in tv etc ? I'd like to try finding videos about that online.

[Soutpeel]

Hi Soutpeel,

I understood that, but I meant which tv channel, where in tv etc ? I'd like to try finding videos about that online.

TV = Thai Visa not that TV, he is a member on here

[cerox]

I'll have a look, thanks for your explanations.

[khunPer]

I'll have a look, thanks for your explanations.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/user/35218-naam/

[Naam]

I'll have a look, thanks for your explanations.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/user/35218-naam/

cerox has contacted me already

[cerox]

I was faster, thanks khunPer and Soutpeel for your support.

I'll post the "solution" here after talking to Naam.

[cerox]

Naam has confirmed my research and what has been posted here as well.

German citizens are not taxable in Germany provided they do not have a residence in Germany, income in Germany (e.g. rental income, stocks) etc. One more important thing Naam added is that it's imperative not to have any kind of room, that you could use to live in when you come back. So having a room with private stuff at your parents house, makes you taxable in Germany.

The German bank account can be used for transferring money, since we are not taxable in Germany.

[Soutpeel]

Naam has confirmed my research and what has been posted here as well.

German citizens are not taxable in Germany provided they do not have a residence in Germany, income in Germany (e.g. rental income, stocks) etc. One more important thing Naam added is that it's imperative not to have any kind of room, that you could use to live in when you come back. So having a room with private stuff at your parents house, makes you taxable in Germany.

The German bank account can be used for transferring money, since we are not taxable in Germany.

Glad you got a definitive answer Naam knows his shit, so it seems you have declare non residence in Germany with "no ties" similar to a lot of other places

[paz]

German citizens are not taxable in Germany provided they do not have a residence in Germany, income in Germany (e.g. rental income, stocks) etc. One more important thing Naam added is that it's imperative not to have any kind of room, that you could use to live in when you come back. So having a room with private stuff at your parents house, makes you taxable in Germany.

Out of curiosity, are there known cases of Germans prosecuted for tax evasion because their parents kept a room for them? Are we talking the current Germany or East Germany with the Stasi, or even the one that existed before that? What pareent are supposed to kids room, seal and place a sign outside - "Not available to our expat children" ?

Because one thing is being legal, another is being ridiculous for no reason.

[Soutpeel]

German citizens are not taxable in Germany provided they do not have a residence in Germany, income in Germany (e.g. rental income, stocks) etc. One more important thing Naam added is that it's imperative not to have any kind of room, that you could use to live in when you come back. So having a room with private stuff at your parents house, makes you taxable in Germany.

Out of curiosity, are there known cases of Germans prosecuted for tax evasion because their parents kept a room for them? Are we talking the current Germany or East Germany with the Stasi, or even the one that existed before that? What pareent are supposed to kids room, seal and place a sign outside - "Not available to our expat children" ?

Because one thing is being legal, another is being ridiculous for no reason.

Paz the basic premise he is talking about is declaring non residency for Tax purposes with no "ties" to Germany, this is a common premise in a lot of countries, the UK wad rumoured to be trying this on as well as well at one point

Stop trying to turn it into something its not nothing to do with East or West Germany or the Stazi, your just being very silly

[cerox]

Paz, it's just how the law states it, so you have no ties to your country. If there was a room for you, it's similar to having a house or a flat - you could come back at any time, so the German law states that you are taxable.

I don't think anybody will check if there is a room at your parents house But there are always envious people who might give the revenue service a hint. I'll rent a storage box for some of my stuff, so I play it safe in that matter^^

[cerox]

Paz, that's all a long time ago, my generation has not lived in that kind of Germany

[paz]

Paz, it's just how the law states it, so you have no ties to your country. If there was a room for you, it's similar to having a house or a flat - you could come back at any time, so the German law states that you are taxable.

I don't think anybody will check if there is a room at your parents house But there are always envious people who might give the revenue service a hint. I'll rent a storage box for some of my stuff, so I play it safe in that matter^^

That's reassuring. When you will show me where your country law says you should have a room I'll be amused (with the help of a translator).

The part about envious people tells me that even if you havent lived the Stasi period that mentality hasn't left your land. Sadly.

Edited August 14, 2015 by paz

[Time Traveller]

And the last bit to add to this good post, if you do work here before you do start work here get your contract written in such a way that the company your working for carries your PIT locally

That's completely naive advice.

A company decides it will pay an employee X. The employee can tell the company whatever they want and pretend they don't pay the tax on their (X minus income tax) salary, but either way income tax will be withheld because its the law.

In fact, I dare say that leaving your personal income tax obligations up to your employer will virtually guarantee that you miss out on a tax return from the many allowances and deductions and credits a typical employee could claim if they file correctly.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Time Traveller

[Soutpeel]

And the last bit to add to this good post, if you do work here before you do start work here get your contract written in such a way that the company your working for carries your PIT locally

That's completely naive advice.

A company decides it will pay an employee X. The employee can tell the company whatever they want and pretend they don't pay the tax on their (X minus income tax) salary, but either way income tax will be withheld because its the law.

In fact, I dare say that leaving your personal income tax obligations up to your employer will virtually guarantee that you miss out on a tax return from the many allowances and deductions and credits a typical employee could claim if they file correctly.

Well i must be naive then as thats the exact deal i have and i get a little bit of paper from the Thai tax every year stating my tax obligations for that specific year have been met

so i dont care what the company does as long as i get my bit of paper from the Tax man, i am in the clear

But then again i never had a company telling me how much they would pay me, i told them what i wanted net, yes there was a little negotation, but i got what i wanted and after 14 years never had any issues with the tax man so dont be so quick to gurantee anything

Edited August 14, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Time Traveller]

And the last bit to add to this good post, if you do work here before you do start work here get your contract written in such a way that the company your working for carries your PIT locally

That's completely naive advice.

A company decides it will pay an employee X. The employee can tell the company whatever they want and pretend they don't pay the tax on their (X minus income tax) salary, but either way income tax will be withheld because its the law.

In fact, I dare say that leaving your personal income tax obligations up to your employer will virtually guarantee that you miss out on a tax return from the many allowances and deductions and credits a typical employee could claim if they file correctly.

Well i must be naive then as thats the exact deal i have and i get a little bit of paper from the Thai tax every year stating my tax obligations for that specific year have been met

so i dont care what the company does as long as i get my bit of paper from the Tax man, i am in the clear

But then again i never had a company telling me how much they would pay me, i told them what i wanted net, yes there was a little negotation, but i got what i wanted and after 14 years never had any issues with the tax man so dont be so quick to gurantee anything

In other words, the company deducts your income tax and pays it to the Revenue Dept. as they are required to for every single employee just like every other company does in this country. Your "agreement" does not exempt you from any law.

But let me ask you, how do you know they are claiming all of the tax returns that you are entitled to? It sounds like, they file your income tax on your behalf based on you salary alone?

Edited August 14, 2015 by Time Traveller

[blackcab]

Thanks for your reply.

It seems to be the same in Germany. As long as you don't have a residence, no income in Germany, no retal property etc. you have no obligation for taxes.

The interesting thing I have to find out is if I can use my German bank accounts for transferring money. I can keep them, but I'm not sure whether the internal revenue service likes it.

There is no law or regulation against keeping how many bank accounts you can have anywhere you want, including you own country. Just having a bank account in a country does not constitute residency in that country. According to most recent international agreements, most countries are sharing this data with each other, but once again, funds in bank do no constitute income or basis for taxation.

Show me proof that MOST countries share this data on a regular and voluntary basis ? They dont - conspiracy theory statements

your posting false information again and not even sure what your talking about in the last sentence ?

Funds in a bank account can constitute a " presence " in country and serve as a basis for taxation - interest on a bank account for example is an income and if the interest earned is above a certain thresehold you are taxed on that money - so no cigar again

I dont think you generalize like that, Soutpeel, I think thats up to the individual country, and for EU also some common directives.

I my EU-country, Denmark, it is no problem at all to have a bank account (or several) and transfer money in and out, as long as Im officially registered as non resident, especially when in 3rd country outside of EU. All banks in EU and a number of associated off-shore banks Luxemburg banks are off-shore, even Luxemburg is member of EU will share information, like interest and whitewash. So will Nordic banks branches in Singapore. If Im living in and taxable to a EU-country, interest from my off-shore account in Luxemburg, or Switzerland or a Nordic bank in Singapore, will be reported to the authorities (tax department) in my EU-country of residence. Being resident in a 3rd country, outside EU, that may be dependent of national rules. US, for example, requests that information the ongoing news stories for long time about Switzerland banks and US tax authorities (IRS?). I think Channel Island banks, especially for British citizens, also have some special rules. Germany may have different rules than Denmark, so OP Cerox need to check with his home country; often some auditor companies and lawyers have good information (probably in German language), if searching the Internet.

A problem has been people, having a registered residence offshore, but actually living/staying more than 180 days in their original home country; they are taxable in their home country, and if the tax department finds out, they are (very) bad off. Difficult within Schengen with no border controls, both for tax department and for the individual to prove; but living outside Schengen-area that should be easy with entry/exit stamps in your passport, and you can always ask the officer for a stamp when leaving, or entering, Schengen.

The EU is not MOST countries as was stated, further the 180 day rule doesnt exist in a lot of countries the UK being one of them, which just happens to be in the EU and see as we are bring specific,

in the UK if you have an income source which originates in the UK even as person who is physically non resident in the UK you can be taxed on that money if you exceed the stated threseholds

The point of my post was to point out " so called facts" posted by one person are completely wrong it wasnt intended to get into specific countries tax regimes

The UK has the 183 day rule for assessing residency for the purpose of taxation. The 183 day rule is automatically applied by HMRC when assessing residency and is the first hurdle encountered when applying the statutory residence test.

Section 1.2, Step 1 of:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt