kirkieb Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Have been researching the Land Development Act for answers as to why the Developer of the Village I live in has his name still on the Utilities, has never attempted to transfer the common property and has even sold our swimming pool club house which was sold to us the owners under the assumption it was our village pool and yet was never going to be . It was actually placed as a last minute thing as cheap as possible and been decaying ever since The unscrupulous Developer has now even started legal action to make us relinquish the servitude to use the pool after 15 years. After we were awarded Servitude a few years ago. Several legal teams involved but outcome is now we cant convince the owners residents of the 134 houses in a 15 year old village fight to settle this once and for all and the Thai Law doesn't help. Sinking funds spent illegally by developer Failure to maintain anything in the village Failure to transfer the Village after completing the village and he still owns the common areas we maintain and can sell them legally if he wants and we cant stop him. And they say they are cracking down on corruption, this guy is still doing the same stuff with new unknown victims in many developments and it seems the brown paper bag under the desk is still a practice of many especially at the Land Office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guderian Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 We went through this four years ago with our developer. I think your starting point has to be to get two-thirds of the owners to sign the relevant documents to ask the Land Office to start the process of making the proposed HOA (Home Owners Association) a legal entity. They were quite strict with us about checking that everything was above board, not surprisingly, but once they agreed and we were allowed to set up the HOA they were very helpful. Until you've got your legal entity in the HOA the developer only has to provide certain services like street lighting and refuse collection. They weren't doing a good job of this and wouldn't respond to complaints so everyone stopped paying the maintenance fee to them. This was one reason many residents, especially the Thais, were (and many still are) against the HOA as they now have to pay the maintenance and common area money every month, but at least now we have reliable services and a village manager who will listen to you. We only had around 3 or 4 votes more than the minimum number needed to set up the HOA so it was a pretty close-run thing. The village had a small swimming pool that was never maintained but we found out once we had the HOA that this was never village property, and it still belongs to the developer, so your experience if far from unique. Legally once you set up the HOA the developer has to give you certain things, like the common areas of the village and a lump sum to help get you started. We had to fight hard for that and also got the court to order them to build a new pool on our land but they deliberately did a rubbish job and it leaks and all has to be rebuilt. Three years later we are still in court on a regular basis trying to get the money from the developer to do so. Setting up a HOA is pretty stressful but once you've done it at least you own and run the village. In my experience here, though, it's all small steps of progress with a lot of hard fighting along the way. Maybe our developer is just the worst in Pattaya, I don't know, but if you can get the HOA set up then you will still have a lot of blood, sweat and tears to come, especially if a significant number of owners are still against the HOA and resent having to pay for services. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanW Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Thai law is certainly different to the west and I must keep reminding myself that this is a developing country! !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosseway Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 One of the developer "Golden Rules" is never sell all of the project, just hold some back for a rainy day. Our Condo / Village is still trying to deal / negotiate with a related problem for some 28 years. Be patient, vigilant, and remember where you are ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langsuan Man Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Depends, most developers want to get the running of these developments off of their backs as soon as possible Once it is transferred to the owners association the developer is no longer responsible for road maintenance, perimeter wall, security etc. so they in most cases want to get out as soon as all of the residences are completed and sold The only explanation for the OP's problem sounds to me like the developer has not sold all the houses yet so is biding his time And I sure have never heard of this "developer golden rule"; the only golden rule I know from developers is to get in, get it build , and get out as soon as possible so that the funds can be moved to the next project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosseway Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I follow your You point Lagsuan Man, road maintenance, perimeter wall and all the other associated things that should be maintained by original developers, very seldom are, and if the Moban has no "Hidden Gem" lurking within it's common area, then I would agree with you. However My Golden rule theory stands out in the case of a Jomtien Village completed some 20 plus years ago, the developer refused to hand over a beachfront part of the common area, the case dragged through the courts for some 20 years, guess what, the Moban eventually lost the case at the Supreme Court. The land in question is now on the market for Baht150, 000000. !! The "Golden Rule" really did pay dividends here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huawei Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 This is common. Developers don't always want to transfer over and get out. They use the common fees to maintain ( poorly) common areas which should have been transferred. They are in it for the long game, especially if by the sea or common area is significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huawei Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I follow your You point Lagsuan Man, road maintenance, perimeter wall and all the other associated things that should be maintained by original developers, very seldom are, and if the Moban has no "Hidden Gem" lurking within it's common area, then I would agree with you. However My Golden rule theory stands out in the case of a Jomtien Village completed some 20 plus years ago, the developer refused to hand over a beachfront part of the common area, the case dragged through the courts for some 20 years, guess what, the Moban eventually lost the case at the Supreme Court. The land in question is now on the market for Baht150, 000000. !! The "Golden Rule" really did pay dividends here. The law has since been updated by the condo in act of 2008 where " advertising " is deemed to be part of the contract and that the courts will favour the buyer if ambiguous . They would probably have got something if the condo had been built from 2009 on wards.. Ok it was a moo ban..so probably doesn't apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosseway Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I follow your You point Lagsuan Man, road maintenance, perimeter wall and all the other associated things that should be maintained by original developers, very seldom are, and if the Moban has no "Hidden Gem" lurking within it's common area, then I would agree with you. However My Golden rule theory stands out in the case of a Jomtien Village completed some 20 plus years ago, the developer refused to hand over a beachfront part of the common area, the case dragged through the courts for some 20 years, guess what, the Moban eventually lost the case at the Supreme Court. The land in question is now on the market for Baht150, 000000. !! The "Golden Rule" really did pay dividends here. The law has since been updated by the condo in act of 2008 where " advertising " is deemed to be part of the contract and that the courts will favour the buyer if ambiguous . They would probably have got something if the condo had been built from 2009 on wards.. Ok it was a moo ban..so probably doesn't apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosseway Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Agree with Huawei here, but best not forget, Where we are, and Who we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Common practice to own the roads and the power and water to be able to put a sir charge on the electric and water of whatever they want. If the roads are govt then you can have seperate accounts and pay govt rates. Fair is fair...my develper owned the roads and when govt water came in he paid for it then divided the cost of the water pipe among everybody. He said it was never his idea to be i. the power and water business. 95% of us paid. a very few just waited for the pipe and then hooked into it.....now they are being sued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guderian Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 The village where I live on Thepprasit soi 8 was built around 12 years ago. I've seen the original brochures advertising the place and they show a pleasant large, green park area bordering soi 8 (or soi Regional Land as it's called nowadays) in front of the village. Apparently once they were getting on with construction of the houses they then also started building 30 commercial shop houses where the park was supposed to be. These now form part of the viiage, but the land that was left to provide a green space for the residents was drastically reduced. With Thepprasit land prices rocketing over the last few years I reckon that piece of land they built on that should have been part of the common area would now be worth well over 100 million Baht. What's done is done and what's lost is lost, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkieb Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 In our case the Developer refuses to maintain anything, he sold our club house and pool which now turns out were never common ground. That is another fight we are struggling to win but currently have servitude to use but is in such terrible condition believe we may loose in current appeal in Supreme Court due to condition. Under Thai Law its illegal to collect fees and employ security, maintenance etc of grounds without a Juristic Person or Legal Entity as the Developer refuses to hand over the Village he still legally own's it all but Village has looked after itself for 15 years under the radar what a disgraceful situation. We try and establish a Juristic person but cant legally appear to be collecting votes or paying security or having our gardens cared for in the process. Seems many brown paper bags were swapped during the whole development and its a case of bad luck. They wonder why they loosing so much tourism, foreign investment and even faith by their own people in reform Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huawei Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Very rare for the Supreme Court to over ride the court of appeal I presume the servitude states that it is null and void if not taken care of. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivas Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Was this Chatkeow 2 on Soi Nernplabwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pdaz Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Sounds like Suwattana Garden Home.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkieb Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Was this Chatkeow 2 on Soi Nernplabwan No it isnt Chatkeow its Suwattana Gardens down the road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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