Protecting Young Thai Girls

[SoiBiker]

The answer should be obvious - not in my world.

Having had several digital prostate examinations, I'm inclined to the view that only a masochist could enjoy anal sex as the receiver. However, if that's what consenting adults choose to do, none of my business.

Pay attention: I said YOUNG THAI BOYS. If you're comfortable with that, surely there's a rock somewhere near you to crawl under.

If you don't like the way I feel, tough luck. You probably won't like it if I feel you are skating close to pedophilia either.

You also said "young Thai girls" - which apparently you don't have a problem with.

It's only paedophilia when the victim is male?

no

So what was all that about?

[teacherpaul]

...and what law is that, Thai law, Shariah law, Western law, or God's law. Who do you think makes laws, the pixies? Wake up, the age of consent is different in different countries, as low as 13 in some. So, who's dumb?

The law Thai policymakers

would introduce to protect

young girls under the age

of 22 from foreign men over

the age of 50.That's what

the OP was calling for.

Should Thailand enact laws that make it illegal for a foreign male over the age of 50 to have sexual relations with any Thai female under the age of 22?

I think it should.

I guess I wasn't too dumb

to understand the point

of the OP.

The original post is a touch racist, as the law should include Thai men. believe me, they're at it just as much as foreigners.

[brewsterbudgen]

You're entitled to your views, but you can't deny they are homophobic and best kept to yourself.

Oh, now I get it. Never express my opinion or feelings if it doesn't coincide with yours. Obviously you are not a fan of Voltaire.

You already expressed your opinion, which I found quite interesting. Homophobic, but interesting. I'm just counselling you to take it easy, as this board tends to frown on most forms of bigotry.

[teacherpaul]

Thais are not unaware that their country has an unfortunate reputation. One only need to look at the Hangover series of films to see "Thailand" is an international metaphor for debauched behavior. I think the authorities should randomly raid and prosecute for vague morals charges, these randy foreigners. From scummy bars in Patts to lobby lounges in 5 star Silom hotels. Name and shame and out put pictures in the media. Hopefully they will catch a few high profile western Ceo's or politicians.

This should stop many from flying halfway around the world to buy sex. They can take a prostitute in their own country, no? Plenty of slappers on West Street Scunthorpe for example. No need to come to Thailand to debase and violate local women.

Another racist post pointing the finger at Western men. So, according to you, the Japanese, Chinese, Indian and African brethren are only here for the temples.

[pizzachang]

Another post from a 'morals policeman'. Thailand already has laws in place to protect under(legal) age women. It is not your job to decide (for Thailand) what that age should be. It may be your 'duty' to report child molestation but you are 'straying' in your post. Usually the first people to throw stones are just as guilty as those they accuse. The self-righteous attitude is actually quite sickening. I'm happy with my Thai wife of 7 years and she's 43 - she also agrees with my post.

[ggt]

Compared to Western girls of the same age, 17-18 year old Thai girls aren't as mature or experienced!

Me thinks you are a tad naive my friend...many young Thai women have been sexually active for years by the time they reach 18 years of age...and look forward to making money off of their ass-ets...

They are not interested in someone filtering out a particular age group...they have the prerogative of saying no...if they are not interested...

You may think you have the moral high ground...but your logic and facts are delusional...best to mind your own business...

[mrjonyoung]

BKKmonk, you should find a new country with that kind of backward thinking. "they" should ban you from being a Buddhist.

[StreetCowboy]

It hurts my eyes to see middle-aged women working on building sites with inadequate personal protective equipment. And they're probably getting little more than the minimum wage.

Personally, I think anyone that goes to a luxury hotel or shopping centre in Thailand needs to take a good look at themselves and their attitude to the exploitation of labour

SC

[Asheron]

It hurts my eyes to see middle-aged women working on building sites with inadequate personal protective equipment. And they're probably getting little more than the minimum wage.

Personally, I think anyone that goes to a luxury hotel or shopping centre in Thailand needs to take a good look at themselves and their attitude to the exploitation of labour

SC

Why should i "take a good look at myself" because i walk inside a shopping centre or a luxury hotel (or any hotel for that matter)? I can't do anything about the poverty in the world and i refuse to lose sleep over something that is totally out of my control.

[rjcampbe]

Often referred to as a "love hate relationship"..........she loves the Money, he Hates being alone, and look what the money can get.

This topic and subject matter just keeps on revolving. same old arguments, same old regurgitated but slightly re-worded responses.

I disagree.

I'm not suggesting that big age gaps in relationships are wrong because I don't believe they are. If a 55 year old wants to date or marry a 25 year old, all well and good. If that's based on money or whatever, who cares?

I'm suggesting that Thai girls under the age of 22 - unlike similarly aged girls in the USA or Europe - don't really have the emotional maturity to consider the implications and ramifications of having a physical relationship with a man three times their age and, therefore, should be protected from predatory foreigners who are far more likely to seek them out purely for sex.

I'd like to see it extended to Thai men too but there are some cultural aspects that might cause stiff resistance.

Most of us are from countries where the sight of a 60 year old man clearly in a physical relationship with a 17 or 18 year old girl would be considered highly objectionable so most of us wouldn't have a problem with the passing of such a law.

Whatever side of this issue you come down on you are bound to be attacked on this forum, but knowing that, I'm going to comment anyway.

First, to the poster who said "there has to be a line drawn somewhere"... THERE IS. It's at the legal age of consent when a person is considered an adult. Typically 18 but with some variations depending on what country you are standing in. Your issue does not seem to be that there isn't a line drawn, you just don't like WHERE it is drawn. So, it's not an issue of legality... I would wager that you would complain on moral grounds no matter what age was set. (And I want to be clear that I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, i'm only pointing out that your argument is illogical and factually incorrect.)

In reality, the OP's argument is akin to "The speed limit is posted at 90kph and people are trying to drive too close to that limit... We should pass a law that makes people drive at least 10kph under the limit..." Can you see how stupid that sounds?

For right or wrong, 18 is an adult. At least in most countries that is the age where people are considered to be legally responsible for themselves and able make whatever bad choices that any of the rest of us can make. If that includes banging a guy more than twice their age, whether Thai or farang, at 12:01 on their birthday... so be it. They can deal with their bad choices and I will deal with mine.

To BKKBodhisattva, I disagree with your comment on the relative maturity of Thai girls vs foreign counterparts. In some ways they may not be as well educated or as knowledgeable about the world, but in other ways, they grow up a lot faster than back in the states. They know how the milk got in the coconut very early, maybe even earlier than girls in farangland.

And don't you think that if it is true that the "predatory foreigners" were seeking them "purely for sex" it is equally true to that these girls are seeking the 50 year old farang purely for money? It takes two to tango... and nobody tangos for free.

Honestly, I don't know why people can't learn to live and let live. As long as you live by your moral code and let me live by mine we will get along just fine.

[Acharn]

Either the OP has never lived in Thailand or has never lived among Thai people in Thailand.

Compared to Western girls of the same age, 17-18 year old Thai girls aren't as mature or experienced

This is simply wrong in and of itself. It's also irrelevant. What he seems to be talking about is the commercial sex scene, in which there is no emotional commitment. It doesn't matter if the girls are mature enough to make a wise choice for a long term commitment, because there isn't going to be one. He has no conception of how young Thai women actually view sex work. Many of them dislike doing it, but know they'll get more money if they hide their distaste, but they regard their customers as chumps who give them money in exchange for a few minutes of body rubbing. It's easier than working in a factory, and most of the girls didn't do well at school, or have never gone to school, and have no other salable skills. Also, most of the ones a farang might meet started selling their services years before they came to Bangkok of Pattaya or Phuket or wherever. The idea that an 18 or 19 year old girl whom you see in a beer bar is inexperienced is laughable. She's almost certainly been <deleted> since she was 14 or 15, often for money. Some of them are married, with children, and are working with the knowledge and approval of their husbands. Others don't have husbands, but do have children to care for and there is no other work they can do that will pay as well. For a while.

There was a new law passed in December, 1997, which raised the legal age. Prostitution is illegal, but it's difficult to prove (I think they make it difficult to prove on purpose, so they don't have to prosecute it very often). The new law retained the provision to arrest women for various reasons, because, as one of the blue-stocking NGOs put it, if we can't arrest them we can't help them. Anyway, the main affect of the law was to raise the age of the young women who can sell their services. It greatly increased the penalty to the customer for buying sex services from a girl under 18. Interestingly, a girl over 15 may have consensual sex if her parents consent. However it is a serious matter if the girl is under 15, and there was a case around the year 2000 of a senator who was convicted of having sex with three girls under 15, and he actually was sent to prison. I don't think the OP understands that if he's shocked and disgusted now he's lucky he wasn't here before 1997. Girls of 15 and 16 used to be common sights and I knew one woman whose mother made her start working when she was 14. Beautiful woman, but very sad life.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Acharn

[carter1882]

I'd like to see it extended to Thai men too but there are some cultural aspects that might cause stiff resistance.

Stiff resistance?.....you dirty OP you.

Wash your mouth out with soap and saboo.

[brewsterbudgen]

You're entitled to your views, but you can't deny they are homophobic and best kept to yourself.

Oh, now I get it. Never express my opinion or feelings if it doesn't coincide with yours. Obviously you are not a fan of Voltaire.

You already expressed your opinion, which I found quite interesting. Homophobic, but interesting. I'm just counselling you to take it easy, as this board tends to frown on most forms of bigotry.

Counsel noted and rejected. Who died and made you the supreme arbiter?

If you don't like my opinions, I have others. Although they are probably wasted on you.

I don't like bigotry in any form. But you're right, I'm not a Moderator here.

Stay safe.

[gemguy]

Either a Troll or a self righteous prat

Oh I get it.

I'm a troll because I dare to question what you perceive is your God-given right to pay to push your senile penile into a girl a third of your age?

Well alright then

And what about the older women who like young boys???

Should they also be treated with equivalent fanaticism???

You are now delving into the realm of humanity while older men with younger women is as old as humanity itself and it will not change anytime soon by way of political correctness forced upon people while criminalizing people for having sex ...women included..... who engage in the most basic characteristics of humanity.

You are know poking your nose into other people business and as long as sex is legal for consenting adults of 18 years or older then you are wasting your time trying to impose your morals upon them...even if your concerns are well meaning.

Besides....what percent of men over 50 years old actually do have sex with girls as young as 18 or 19 or 20 years old relative to the 7.5 billion people on the planet.

Very, very, very few actually.....while the percentages are nothing at all to be concerned about in the larger scheme of things

Meantime, what restriction would you impose on young women and young girls that like older men and willingly and knowingly want to have sex with older men regardless of what you think should be the age limitations???

You are going to impose laws on them that criminalize them also, if and when they do have sex with an older man

Should they also be shamed and criminalized in your PC world for having an attraction to older men that are say 3 times older than they are and what should be the penalty in your PC world for such practiced and supposedly shameful indiscretions???

There are plenty of young women who actually like older men and prefer them to younger men ...for whatever reasons.

Are you going to educate them and tell them from a very early age that they can not be attracted to an older man and if an older man is attracted to them they should do what????.....immediately call 911 and have the offender arrested and put in jail while we also teach young boys that any women over the age of 30 that shows interest in a young man and or is attracted to younger men should be publically shamed or also arrested for sexually socializing with anyone of the opposite sex that has an age difference of say 20 years or more.

You have asked the question...so do not be offended or angered by the answers you receive as there is far more to that particular social issue than a simple PC world solution.

Cheers

Edited August 17, 2015 by gemguy

[Docno]

A bit off tangent to this thread - but why do most of these old geezers have a pathological need to walk with their GF-For-Two-Weeks holding hands all the time? Did they pay in advance and is afraid she will run off?

Another nasty narrow-minded and superior post. Do you personally know the couple in the photo? Do you know their ages and the circumstances of their relationship? You jump to the conclusion the woman in the photo is a 2-week rented prostitute. That's possible, it's also possible they have been married for 10 years and are a very loving couple. Posts like yours speak volumes about the state of your own mind.

I'm out walking about 200 km per month in Bangkok and I see a lot of people and pairs like this. I'm sure that there are some very loving and romantic couples out there and this couple might be one of them. But there are so extremely many of them that one can generalize a bit without being a condescending tosser. (The dude in the pic was about 60+, SEA females are extremely hard to guess the age of...)

You don't see this in Kuala Lumpur, London, Stockholm or Miami to nowhere the same degree. Maybe it's the Bangkok atmosphere that makes people overly romantic - there might me many who are getting turned on by the fragrance of the drainage system :-)

But as I said in another post, I don't mind what, how and with whom people lives - as long as they are considerate enough to not block the sidewalks.

From the woman's figure and clothing sense (running shoes, blue jeans, long-sleeved top), I very much doubt she is a 20-something bar girl. He also doesn't look (from behind) as "clapped out old geezer", as my friend likes to say ... well-dressed and looking reasonably fit. \From behind they look very much like a real couple returning from buying groceries. And here you are calling her a '2-week gf' ... does that make sense?

Maybe you do belong in KL, where holding hands in public can get you in trouble with the authorities (as happened to a Canadian friend there walking hand in hand with his Indonesian wife).

[GOLDBUGGY]

...and what law is that, Thai law, Shariah law, Western law, or God's law. Who do you think makes laws, the pixies? Wake up, the age of consent is different in different countries, as low as 13 in some. So, who's dumb?

The law Thai policymakers

would introduce to protect

young girls under the age

of 22 from foreign men over

the age of 50.That's what

the OP was calling for.

Should Thailand enact laws that make it illegal for a foreign male over the age of 50 to have sexual relations with any Thai female under the age of 22?

I think it should.

I guess I wasn't too dumb

to understand the point

of the OP.

Like to tell me how such a law would be enforced? Would we have the bedroom police knocking on hotel doors asking for birth certificates? Why not go the full hog and ban all sex before marriage.

Why even stop their?

Why not ban women from walking around alone and have them cover their faces so as the temptation for wanted sex is removed. Then we can Ban them from being with a man who is not related to them and also Ban Alcohol, so we don't do something foolish.

Oh Yeah! I forgot! They already do that in a lot of Arab Countries. ,

[Rusty Keyhole]

Spoil sport.

[ScottMallon]

Thais are not unaware that their country has an unfortunate reputation. One only need to look at the Hangover series of films to see "Thailand" is an international metaphor for debauched behavior. I think the authorities should randomly raid and prosecute for vague morals charges, these randy foreigners. From scummy bars in Patts to lobby lounges in 5 star Silom hotels. Name and shame and out put pictures in the media. Hopefully they will catch a few high profile western Ceo's or politicians.

This should stop many from flying halfway around the world to buy sex. They can take a prostitute in their own country, no? Plenty of slappers on West Street Scunthorpe for example. No need to come to Thailand to debase and violate local women.

Right, so busting guys here for sex is okay but not in their own country? Your morals are so far out of skew you're blind. This is Thailand, not your country, and if the Thais don't want prostitution here, they'll be the ones to tell you. Also, is it okay for a 60-year-old Thai man to screw 20-year-old Thai women?

I'm damn glad you're not in charge of anything I have to do with. Plenty of guys don't fly here for sex and the vast majority of prostitution involves Thai men - so get over yourself.

[ScottMallon]

Maybe the Authorities should start to charge the parents that pressure their Young girls into prostitution or just direct sell them into the brothel / karaoke business .... ?

What about the older men who get lucky and end up with a much younger woman who isn't a prostitute? What's your proposal for this?

[TimmyT]

I would say - under the age of 30.

[BKKBodhisattva]

Compared to Western girls of the same age, 17-18 year old Thai girls aren't as mature or experienced!

Me thinks you are a tad naive my friend...many young Thai women have been sexually active for years by the time they reach 18 years of age...and look forward to making money off of their ass-ets...

They are not interested in someone filtering out a particular age group...they have the prerogative of saying no...if they are not interested...

You may think you have the moral high ground...but your logic and facts are delusional...best to mind your own business...

No I'm not naïve

Speak to a "typical" 18 year old Thai girl and a "typical" 18 year old American, British or European girl.

Ask questions about their attitudes to sex, love, marriage and children.

The Thai girl will giggle uncontrollably on matters of sex while only demonstrating any vestige of maturity when it comes to family.

The Western girl will speak maturely on issues of romance, the need for condoms and the need for respect for her right to choose.

The old men here claiming that there is little distinction between Thai and relatively mature Western teenagers are the same ones who - in any other setting ( ie away from the back room at their favourite knock shop) will describe Thai girls as childish, immature, concerned only with consumer crap.

How is it that are they able to ascribe such diametrically-opposed attributes to the same people?

Because one set of attributes is being used to support their right to defile what are - mentally - little more than children.

Everywhere on this forum, there are anecdotes discussing what farangs see as the childishness of the Thai people and their apparent inability to take responsibility for what they do.

Mention sex however, and suddenly, 17-18 year old girls are highly-mature, fully-cognizant and able to fully comprehend the hornet's nest of emotional problems that could potentially arise from spreading their legs for a disgusting old man 40 years older than they are.

As I said earlier on in the thread, I didn't expect to receive a warm welcome on a forum of ageing sexpats who are here to exploit the locals even at the risk of doing serious emotional and mental harm to another young human being.

Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's moral

Edited August 18, 2015 by BKKBodhisattva

[John Kane]

There are plenty of older women who would set the age that women must be for older men to be "with" Biblically as about 50 minimum and no younger. There are extreme feminists - Dworkin, MacKinnon, Farly, etc - who would say that no woman should resort to being with any man. So, it is a flexible question. There are men who point out that the new age of 18 being illegal as trafficking under UN definition is to high. Age 18 is illegal only because it is the age when first world children are required to stay in school. That is hardly practical for third world children who often can only afford to go as far as primary school and must get on with their lives in more traditional ways. What an amazing topic! How old must women be to be legal for an older man? Is no one asking how old or young must men be to be legal? No? Well, why not?

What first world country requires children to remain in school until age 18?

Certainly America, for one! In the USA that is a state issue, not federal so it varies by state. Young people can often drop out early, but the expectation and often the law too is to stay till 18 years old.

[MaeJoMTB]

Speak to a "typical" 18 year old Thai girl and a "typical" 18 year old American, British or European girl.

Ask questions about their attitudes to sex, love, marriage and children.

The Thai girl will giggle uncontrollably on matters of sex while only demonstrating any vestige of maturity when it comes to family.

The Western girl will speak maturely on issues of romance, the need for condoms and the need for respect for her right to choose.

Typical Thai girls won't even talk to white men.

The old guys are meeting experienced prostitutes, already done 100s of Thai guys if not 1,000s.

Your rant is entirely pointless!

[John Kane]

Compared to Western girls of the same age, 17-18 year old Thai girls aren't as mature or experienced!

Me thinks you are a tad naive my friend...many young Thai women have been sexually active for years by the time they reach 18 years of age...and look forward to making money off of their ass-ets...

They are not interested in someone filtering out a particular age group...they have the prerogative of saying no...if they are not interested...

You may think you have the moral high ground...but your logic and facts are delusional...best to mind your own business...

No I'm not naïve

Speak to a "typical" 18 year old Thai girl and a "typical" 18 year old American, British or European girl.

Ask questions about their attitudes to sex, love, marriage and children.

The Thai girl will giggle uncontrollably on matters of sex while only demonstrating any vestige of maturity when it comes to family.

The Western girl will speak maturely on issues of romance, the need for condoms and the need for respect for her right to choose.

The old men here claiming that there is little distinction between Thai and relatively mature Western teenagers are the same ones who - in any other setting ( ie away from the back room at their favourite knock shop) will describe Thai girls as childish, immature, concerned only with consumer crap.

How is it that are they able to ascribe such diametrically-opposed attributes to the same people?

Because one set of attributes is being used to support their right to defile what are - mentally - little more than children.

Everywhere on this forum, there are anecdotes discussing what farangs see as the childishness of the Thai people and their apparent inability to take responsibility for what they do.

Mention sex however, and suddenly, 17-18 year old girls are highly-mature, fully-cognizant and able to fully comprehend the hornet's nest of emotional problems that could potentially arise from spreading their legs for a disgusting old man 40 years older than they are.

As I said earlier on in the thread, I didn't expect to receive a warm welcome on a forum of ageing sexpats who are here to exploit the locals even at the risk of doing serious emotional and mental harm to another young human being.

Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's moral

I live in a university dorm where students start school at 17 years old. I see very innocent looking girls running around here who look they would be American high school students. But a friend owns a local convenience store which has the obligatory condoms on the front counter. I was told they sell well and so do birth control pills kept behind the counter. I often wake up when I hear female students coming to their rooms at 3 or 4 am.

On the other hand that same school did some research with my help and discovered the average age sex workers in Nana Plaza lost their virginity was 17.6 years old and they were paid for sex for the first time on average at 23.1 years old. The vast majority, like 70% came from happy normal homes. All of this flies in the face of what those who are spreading around their moral shame want us to believe. I can refer you to quickly 7 or 8 websites, some for very ligitimate organizations, that make the claim that sex workers are paid for the first time at an average of 12 years old. The whole subject is rife with self serving baloney designed to keep traditional shame and morals in place for the control of women. Yes, to control women. Older women are the first t help.

Sometimes we all let our emotions and our prejudices get in the way of understanding that things are just different sometimes. I lived in Albania for three years. There were some nice bars but any single women who were with friends, but not fiancies, would start disappearing at about 9:30 to go home. For quite awhile I thought those were really "moral" women who were happy to be in their own bed at home by 10 pm. Only later did I discover that most serious dating took place after work where "meeting for a coffee" could mean anything from meeting for coffee to going straight to a short term hotel. We start to understand these kinds of things better when we are able to shuck off this talk about morals and exploiting and realize that sex is becoming accepted as simply another form of entertainment. Some money, no matter how it is given, is an equalizing factor often when there is an age difference, but in many other ways too. Hey but what do I know?

[BKKBodhisattva]

Speak to a "typical" 18 year old Thai girl and a "typical" 18 year old American, British or European girl.

Ask questions about their attitudes to sex, love, marriage and children.

The Thai girl will giggle uncontrollably on matters of sex while only demonstrating any vestige of maturity when it comes to family.

The Western girl will speak maturely on issues of romance, the need for condoms and the need for respect for her right to choose.

Typical Thai girls won't even talk to white men.

The old guys are meeting experienced prostitutes, already done 100s of Thai guys if not 1,000s.

Your rant is entirely pointless!

So as I asked earlier, if you see a just-raped woman by the roadside, what do you think?

Do you try to help, give her some water, your jacket if her clothes are ripped and then call an ambulance or the cops or do you consider climbing on and having a go reasoning that she's already screwed?

Your post suggests it's ok to heap misery on top of that which the girls are already experiencing.

[MaeJoMTB]

Do you try to help, give her some water, your jacket if her clothes are ripped and then call an ambulance or the cops or do you consider climbing on and having a go reasoning that she's already screwed?

I never look all that closely at stuff near the road.

Nothing there for a foreigner to do. (unless crazy or looking for trouble)

Mind you, I often smell rotting meat as I drive along roads with jungle areas to either side.

No, I'm not gonna stop and look for the source of the smell either. (nothing there for me)

[SoiBiker]

Speak to a "typical" 18 year old Thai girl and a "typical" 18 year old American, British or European girl.

Ask questions about their attitudes to sex, love, marriage and children.

The Thai girl will giggle uncontrollably on matters of sex while only demonstrating any vestige of maturity when it comes to family.

The Western girl will speak maturely on issues of romance, the need for condoms and the need for respect for her right to choose.

I don't know if that's about maturity as much as it reflects the lack of education they have received in such matters.

[StreetCowboy]

Speak to a "typical" 18 year old Thai girl and a "typical" 18 year old American, British or European girl.

Ask questions about their attitudes to sex, love, marriage and children.

The Thai girl will giggle uncontrollably on matters of sex while only demonstrating any vestige of maturity when it comes to family.

The Western girl will speak maturely on issues of romance, the need for condoms and the need for respect for her right to choose.

Typical Thai girls won't even talk to white men.

The old guys are meeting experienced prostitutes, already done 100s of Thai guys if not 1,000s.

Your rant is entirely pointless!

So as I asked earlier, if you see a just-raped woman by the roadside, what do you think?

Do you try to help, give her some water, your jacket if her clothes are ripped and then call an ambulance or the cops or do you consider climbing on and having a go reasoning that she's already screwed?

Your post suggests it's ok to heap misery on top of that which the girls are already experiencing.

Quality person you are

I think his point was that, rather than interfering with the normal business of experienced prostitutes, you would be better addressing the social issues that force young Thai girls to have sex at a young age out in the boondocks, the issues that force them to come to the city to earn money for their parents and their children, rather than trying to criminalise those girls and their customers, most of whom are decent, law-abiding people, albeit perhaps not up to your standards of sartorial demeanour or superficial good looks.

Perhaps if your proposition was based more soundly on research into the ladies and gentlemen in question, rather than your own fantasies about them, then people may have taken you more seriously.

Some people like to fantasise about sex with beautiful young girls; some people like to fantasise about making up laws and forcing them on people to criminalise their behaviour and bully them into their own puritanical straitjacket.

SC

[CharlieH]

A number of bickering posts removed.

Debate/discuss the topic, please do not make personal remarks, they will be removed and if persistant your ability to post may be removed.

Forum rule :

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[micmichd]

Why do I get the strange idea that "jus primae noctis" is what some are really after?