Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Again, as has been said many times on this forum, we are not privy to all the information. Media coverage is very limited at this stage, predominately via Twitter from what i have observed, and that seems to have slowed lately. We simply do not know the full details or facts, of the investigation. I expect when the trial reaches conclusion, a lot more of the investigative results will be available in the public arena.

When the trial ends, the only review of the evidence presented at the trial that may legally be quoted will be the judge's report. This may or may not reflect what actually happened in court. The lack of a verbatim transcript of the court proceedings, combined with forbidding any other accurate record from being kept, means that the judge could, if so minded, completely distort the presented evidence.

Has there ever been a Thai judge that rendered a decision because millions of baht was transfered to a casino in poipet?

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Without a substantial bribe the only logical decision would be innocent.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Not sure if anybody has noticed this but the forensics person is taking something from the tree it also looks like something has hit the tree as fresh bark is visible , maybe its where the fighting started.

crimescene1.jpg

No but what is see is DNA samples being corrupted.

[metisdead]

An off topic post of a defamatory nature has been removed. Nonsense trolling posts have been removed.

[thailandchilli]

Great, now we will see the defense at work. Its about time and this is now going to be the real test to measure just how fair and transparent the trial really is. To ensure justice for Hannah and David does not mean convicting people with evidence that is unverified. Nor does it mean ruining the lives of the B2 if they are innocent.

[boomerangutang]

Sure a lot can happen in 9 months but it hasn't at least publicly. You love to point out things that you think are true but when somebody like me asks how do you know they are true, you rattle off the excuses like the people who know first hand that it's true are intimidated by the headman's goon squad so how could you expect them to publicly come forward which to me is just confirmation that nobody has come forward and one reason maybe that nobody has come forward is that there isn't anybody out there that has anything with which to come forward.

It sounds like another circular argument you've made on earlier posts. Something like; "there have been no heinous murders since the crime, so the real murderers must not still be circulating in the public domain." See below for reasons why anyone with evidence of Headman's people involvement in the crime are not going to step forward to speak up.

If I lived on the island and believed in Truth & Justice I would make some arrangement to provide any genuinely compelling information I had that would spring the 2 falsely accused or else I just don't care about Truth & Justice.

Sounds good Crab, but not believable.

If YOU lived on the Island would YOU come forward with info...?

Maybe not , but I'm quite surprised than no one has spoken up after they left the island , you know , tourists, expats, immigration workers who are safe back in their home lands.

Unless you are sharing inside info with the defense team, you (and I) don't know if that's true. Also, for a backpacker, after returning to their farang homeland, would it be worthwhile to give testimony which might shed light on the whodunit? There are several extenuating circumstances:

>>> if the info the witness has - has anything to do with Nomsod or Mon or anyone other than the B2, then it's of no relevance to the trial - by your own reckoning - because ONLY THE B2 are on trial. No one else.

>>> the Thai court may not allow depositions, and may instead require personal appearances by any witnesses. Who's going to pay for a witness to come halfway around the world? That witness would miss work, and be out-of-pocket on expenses, at the least (see below....)

>>> any witness who might have anything which incriminates anyone connected to the Headman's people would be sticking their neck out (for bodily harm or...?) if they spoke up. That's the main reason why no islanders have spoken up. They know the rules of the game: Threaten the Headman or his family, and you might suffer badly. You wanna find out what sort of suffering that could be? Just break the rules and you'll find out.

[Rykbanlor]

Looks like you've all been doing well, treading gingerly in this "volatile thread".

Hopefully tomorrow they can get the final prosecution witnesses through quick and let the defence start.

Does anyone know if the prosecution witnesses were all Police officers, or did they have a little variety? As far as I have seen, it's the former.

[missexpat]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Tomorrow day 13 Koh Tao murder trial. Final prosecution witness is Somsak Norud, main police investigator, Koh Phangan police station.

Be interesting to see how this finally plays out, there seems to have been so many 'main police investigators'

[oldsailor35]

Have they yet looked at bank transfers or withdrawals........? Naaaaaaaaaaah...doubt it...

Whose bank transfers and withdrawals?

Rather a silly question i should have thought

[oldsailor35]

Having watched this from the sideline for nearly a year I want to say just remember the victims in this. David and Hannah.

david_miller_hannah_witheridge.jpg

Yes and lets hope it stays at two victims.

You might be a little late with this "hope"

[balo]

boomerangutang : Unless you are sharing inside info with the defense team, you (and I) don't know if that's true. Also, for a backpacker, after returning to their farang homeland, would it be worthwhile to give testimony which might shed light on the whodunit? There are several extenuating circumstances:

I was not thinking about witnesses to take stand in court but more like from social media or newspapers, since this is a famous case outside of Thailand , in other murder cases I have seen people being interviewed openly , if I happened to be there that night I would probably just mention it when I came home from my holiday . If I saw something worth mentioning maybe just post it on my FB page or maybe post something about it here. But nothing really.

[Changoverandout]

i hope this thread stays open as the defense starts soon and (most of us) want an unhampered, realistic view of what's happening without spanners being thrown in the works by the spammers! I was about to use the 'report' button but a mod beat me to it by removing the 'baited' post but have never found the 'ignore' button which would help. Where is it?

[thailandchilli]

i hope this thread stays open as the defense starts soon and (most of us) want an unhampered, realistic view of what's happening without spanners being thrown in the works by the spammers! I was about to use the 'report' button but a mod beat me to it by removing the 'baited' post but have never found the 'ignore' button which would help. Where is it?

Top right of your screen click your user name button > Manage/ignore preferences and fill out the usernames you want to ignore, job done, makes reading the whole thread so much easier, I've a growing list about 6 or 7 now.

[thailandchilli]

boomerangutang : Unless you are sharing inside info with the defense team, you (and I) don't know if that's true. Also, for a backpacker, after returning to their farang homeland, would it be worthwhile to give testimony which might shed light on the whodunit? There are several extenuating circumstances:

I was not thinking about witnesses to take stand in court but more like from social media or newspapers, since this is a famous case outside of Thailand , in other murder cases I have seen people being interviewed openly , if I happened to be there that night I would probably just mention it when I came home from my holiday . If I saw something worth mentioning maybe just post it on my FB page or maybe post something about it here. But nothing really.

I do agree it is strange. Two prime witnesses to the running man would be the couple who were walking just a few meters ahead of him and then still around for an hour after so probably saw him again. Now these would be the people who should say something. Or perhaps they already have and we have not been made aware. As well as running man they would have also witnessed whoever else was around at the same time.

Edited August 31, 2015 by thailandchilli

[Rykbanlor]

boomerangutang : Unless you are sharing inside info with the defense team, you (and I) don't know if that's true. Also, for a backpacker, after returning to their farang homeland, would it be worthwhile to give testimony which might shed light on the whodunit? There are several extenuating circumstances:

I was not thinking about witnesses to take stand in court but more like from social media or newspapers, since this is a famous case outside of Thailand , in other murder cases I have seen people being interviewed openly , if I happened to be there that night I would probably just mention it when I came home from my holiday . If I saw something worth mentioning maybe just post it on my FB page or maybe post something about it here. But nothing really.

I do agree it is strange. Two prime witnesses to the running man would be the couple who were walking just a few meters ahead of him and then still around for an hour after so probably saw him again. Now these would be the people who should say something. Or perhaps they already have and we have not been made aware. As well as running man they would have also witnessed whoever else was around at the same time.

These two people, as random as any I presume, could have literally disappeared into the world, and might be non the wiser to all the subsequent "goings on".

The public awareness and knowledge of the whole debacle, outside of here, is frightfully small.

[PaPiPuPePo]

I understand the young man you have named has been cleared of involvement, through telephone records and video releases and no doubt personal witness statements. I for one cannot imagine someone committing this crime and then hastily arranging fast boats, plane tickets and be back in Bangkok early morning, just does not seem comprehensible, to some extent goes against pure common sense.

Lots of speculation here; "the young man" was cleared by the cops, but since he's from the MOST powerful family on an island, a family that makes 10s of MILLIONS of US dollars a year, I guess you missed the part in life where justice can be bought for money. Ever here of that?

Then, you can't imagine someone "hastily" arranging to get out of Dodge after they commit a murder? Well, I'm sorry you suffer from a lack of imagination.

And an odd concept of "common sense," excuse me "pure common sense" as you call it. Common sense would dictate that if you commit a heinous crime, and have the means (IOW daddy has 10s of millions of bucks in the bank), you'd do exactly what some people think he did--that's why they think he did it!

Anyway, thanks for letting us know what you can or can't imagine, and what you consider common sense. Once should suffice.

[smedly]

< snip >

Regarding the Koh Tao case, how do you know that "no one has publicly said that they saw him;"? I would agree that I have not seen any published accounts of people seeing him, but that could be because the media refused to publish such accounts. If I see an event take place and contact my local media to report what I have seen, have i publicly said what I saw? Or in your opinion is it only to be considered "public" when the media decide to air/publish the story?

< snip 2>

And you are genuinely surprised that no individual has come forth to publicly say that they saw him....?

< snip 3 >

No I do not recall the movie you describe. If the newspaper is worried about divulging the identity of a person with knowledge of a case, then they don't reveal the source. And yes it is public knowledge when I can read about it on Reuters, etc. I don't believe that anyone could come forward with any compelling substantiated information on a case like this and a newspaper would not print it or put it on its website quoting 'a source'.

Am I surprised that no one has come forward with any hard core information related to the crime? Yes. Since on here so many persons are said to have such information I am surprised that no even one will offer evidence to clear the 2 accused. I also believe it is possible to whatever extent that no one has come forward because there is no person with such compelling information.

If YOU lived on the Island would YOU come forward with info...?

Maybe not , but I'm quite surprised than no one has spoken up after they left the island , you know , tourists, expats, immigration workers who are safe back in their home lands.

I hate having to state the obvious for you mate

First - so far we have heard from the prosecution, if someone had spoken up we are hardly going to hear it from them are we ?

Second - how do you know someone hasn't spoken up, the defense has not presented yet (ref first)

do you really understand that your post was pointless (no insult intended)

and for the others posted above, do you honestly think it would be a healthy thing to do to visit the Island and start asking questions - or if you lived on the Island when these murders took place and had information - who exactly are you going to tell, it is suspected that Sean Mc attempted this and look what happened to him

some people need to think before engaging the keyboard, I find the my points above to very obvious and did not should not have needed me to post to explain it

[smedly]

Yes, you can create all sort of scenarios, specially if you ignore the testimonies from witnesses and the actual defendants.

Ha aleg and ignore the data on the phone chai pa...

Unlike you, I don't presume to know what data, if any, remained on the phone because I don't know in which condition it was when found.

smashing a phone usually means the screen/frame is broken, once the screen has been replaced it then becomes fully functional with everything intact, also as I have said many times, it seems it was never revealed that is was checked for DNA or finger prints - go figure

[smedly]

Yes -- The British tabloids are notoriously timid in tracking down friends of a murder victim or UK persons who might have been at the scene of the crime when it occurred and are now at home in the UK.

Maybe read where he actually is? Not in the UK and will not give any further statement. He's also a convicted sex offender. Not worth seeing what he knows especially since he was escorted off the island by the police and press. Seems relevant to me.

Huh?

anyone notice the possible No 9 teeshirt sitting at the bar behind the girls in this photo (2 3 9 or 0) also these party pub crawls are attended by tourists and Thais from the Island, my opinion is that if I see Thai men drinking anywhere near my location I immediately get nervous especially when there are young blond western women around, I personally would be very quick to warn these girls to be very careful, drinking male Thais and falangs don't often mix well in the same environment either

Edited August 31, 2015 by smedly

[Rykbanlor]

Yes -- The British tabloids are notoriously timid in tracking down friends of a murder victim or UK persons who might have been at the scene of the crime when it occurred and are now at home in the UK.

Maybe read where he actually is? Not in the UK and will not give any further statement. He's also a convicted sex offender. Not worth seeing what he knows especially since he was escorted off the island by the police and press. Seems relevant to me.

Huh?

anyone notice the possible No 9 teeshirt sitting at the bar behind the girls in this photo (2 3 9 or 0)

Yeah, but thats not a football t-shirt (sleeveless) , correct me if am wrong if that wasn't your point.

[catsanddogs]

Yes -- The British tabloids are notoriously timid in tracking down friends of a murder victim or UK persons who might have been at the scene of the crime when it occurred and are now at home in the UK.

Maybe read where he actually is? Not in the UK and will not give any further statement. He's also a convicted sex offender. Not worth seeing what he knows especially since he was escorted off the island by the police and press. Seems relevant to me.

Huh?

anyone notice the possible No 9 teeshirt sitting at the bar behind the girls in this photo (2 3 9 or 0) also these party pub crawls are attended by tourists and Thais from the Island, my opinion is that if I see Thai men drinking anywhere near my location I immediately get nervous especially when there are young blond western women around, I personally would be very quick to warn these girls to be very careful, drinking male Thais and falangs don't often mix well in the same environment either

Number 9 who gave a high five to David was wearing a tee shirt with sleeves I believe and not a vest.

[missexpat]

Yes -- The British tabloids are notoriously timid in tracking down friends of a murder victim or UK persons who might have been at the scene of the crime when it occurred and are now at home in the UK.

Maybe read where he actually is? Not in the UK and will not give any further statement. He's also a convicted sex offender. Not worth seeing what he knows especially since he was escorted off the island by the police and press. Seems relevant to me.

Huh?

anyone notice the possible No 9 teeshirt sitting at the bar behind the girls in this photo (2 3 9 or 0) also these party pub crawls are attended by tourists and Thais from the Island, my opinion is that if I see Thai men drinking anywhere near my location I immediately get nervous especially when there are young blond western women around, I personally would be very quick to warn these girls to be very careful, drinking male Thais and falangs don't often mix well in the same environment either

No, i don't believe that is of any relevance...

[smedly]

maybe read where he actually is? Not in the UK and will not give any further statement. He's also a convicted sex offender. Not worth seeing what he knows especially since he was escorted off the island by the police and press. Seems relevant to me.

Huh?

anyone notice the possible No 9 teeshirt sitting at the bar behind the girls in this photo (2 3 9 or 0)

Yeah, but thats not a football t-shirt (sleeveless) , correct me if am wrong if that wasn't your point.

it's the barcrawl teeshirt that they all wear

[Basil B]

Without a substantial bribe the only logical decision would be innocent.

I would have thought so, but then we are not privy to every bit of evidence that is presented to the Judges.

A lot of evidence seems to have been discredited, and now it seems the only evidence the prosecution has is the phone...

The B2 actually admitted to handling it, but say they found it which is quite plausible, and seems their is actually no proof it was David's... or even if he had it at the time he was murdered.

[catsanddogs]

From Andy Hall's facebook page 5 hours ago.

Today, the whole Koh Tao murder case legal defence team and case translators spent the day inside Koh Samui prison. The whole day was spent preparing case accused Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to give their much awaited testimony to tell the public and the court, in their own words for the first time, what they were doing on 14/15 September 2014 and what happened after their arrest early morning on 2nd October until the present.

The defense witnesses shall begin either late tomorrow or on 2nd Sept for at least 7 days (1/2, 11, 22-25 Sept).

Koh Samui prison authorities as usual kindly provided the defense team with full and free access to Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo in a private area and all other necessities required for the defense team preparation.

[Gweiloman]

Whats not been made public or at least I've never seen any reports is when this actual phone that allegedly belongs to David was found behind the living quaters of the B2. I see no mention of this find until after they were arrested on the 2nd Oct. So are we being led to believe it lay there for 2 weeks undisturbed and not found by anyone. I'm sure if it had been found before the RTP would have added it to one of the numerous statements. Instead we get the B2 arrested and then suddenly this appears.

In subsequent posts, you have very clearly highlighted the weakness of introducing the phone as "damning" evidence.

First of, if the police found the phone in the suspects' living quarters, that could very strongly tie them to being in the vicinity or being with the owner of the phone. However, "finding" the phone in some bushes "near" the suspects residence means absolutely bugger all (to those that are objective, at any rate).

Secondly, if the phone was initially discovered and this subsequently led the RTP to the suspects, then they would have a case to answer. The fact that the phone was only "found" after identifying the suspects could indicate planted evidence.

But TC, please be gentle. This is the only piece of "damning" evidence left, after the DNA evidence seems to have run out of steam.

[Gweiloman]

It's not my version, it's the version of the two defendants and the two witnesses that testified.

As for criminals keeping incriminating evidence in their homes... have you seen the news lately?

Well I missed that, when did the defendants take the stand ?

Or do you mean its the version the RTP claim the defendants told them, I do wish people would stop distorting the truth.

The two defendants testified in the presence of their lawyers that they simply "found" the phone on the night of the murders, witnesses testified in court on October 14th of last year that they were given that phone by the defendants.

If you want to call them liars so be it.

Still clinging to this one sole thing I see.

Until the B2 confess to this during the actual trial it's an inconsequential non-fact.

So do you have anything else except for this phone which may or may not have belonged to one of the victims, and may or may not have been taken by the B2, and may or may not have been found behind their residence?

If not then there is a good reason why you have to keep bringing up such a small thing when all of the greater more solid evidence which would usually be available to convict someone of murder and rape is missing from the case.

LIke I said in my reply to TC, this is the only "damning" piece of evidence left in the prosecution's case.

[Gweiloman]

It's not my version, it's the version of the two defendants and the two witnesses that testified.

As for criminals keeping incriminating evidence in their homes... have you seen the news lately?

The defendants also agreed that broken glass was used as murder weapon, though no glass was found at or near the crime scene. When a person is being tortured, they'll say any damn thing. BTW, why have we heard nearly nothing in the prosecutions' presentations about wounds to victims or weapons used? It couldn't be because RTP and prosecution are hiding things could it? or maybe because Thai forensics completely mis-read (intentionally or unwittingly) the items they're supposedly trained to diagnose. It will be interesting when Ms Pontip takes the stand. Even more interesting if any British forensic findings are submitted to the proceedings.

Thanks for bringing up the so called murder weapon.

Not long after the murders occurred and the B2 were arrested, one of the posters from the "other" side tried to convince me that it was indeed possible that the hoe made the sharp cuts that were inflicted on DM. That discussion finished along the lines that it will be proven conclusively in court.

However, I didn't read anywhere where any particular attention was focused on whether the hoe was in fact the murder weapon used on DM (it could possibly have been on HW). Also, there were no reports of any other weapons that could have inflicted the wounds on DM. I'm just wondering if whether the defence decided that it was unnecessary to pursue this as the hoe does not belong to the B2 so it doesn't do anything to either the prosecution or defences' case. Also, it was unnecessary to focus on possible shark-toothed rings as once again, it would not bolster the defence's case as it is the B2 that are on trial and not some others.

[Madaussie]

Huh?

anyone notice the possible No 9 teeshirt sitting at the bar behind the girls in this photo (2 3 9 or 0)

Yeah, but thats not a football t-shirt (sleeveless) , correct me if am wrong if that wasn't your point.

it's the barcrawl teeshirt that they all wear

I don't think you are correct with the number shirt. the girls seem to have vest and a male is wearing a T shirt as per picture below. This is the 4 travellers by the way.

[GOLDBUGGY]

More BS.... I worked on trying to gain evidence who the phone belonged to. I have a copy of the file.

It is a mute point that the phone did or didn't belong to David, lets assume that it did, then there will be up to 4 peoples DNA and finger prints on it, the first is obvious Davids, then if the testimony is true it will also have the DNA of the guy who dumped it and at least one of the accused, I have heard nothing reported by the police that they tested this phone for anything, the police claim they found it smashed up in the bushes - how convenient

A claim supported by two witnesses, friends of the defendants, that testified in court of receiving the phone from them and discarding it where it was subsequently found. You know, like normal, low income people would do with an expensive phone.

You are correct in this post AleG but if you don't mind I would like to expand on this a bit more.

It was reported early on by the Media, somewhere around October 7th I think, that a Senior Official "Sorayuth Suthassanachinda" went on Channel 3 News and tried to explain exactly how they found David Millers Mobile Phone. Linking his name to David Millers Mobile Phone on Google should provide this from the Media.

Anyway, it is alleged by this Media Report that he said they knew very early on that David Millers Mobile phone was missing from his person from information gained from David's friends and family but did not make this public knowledge. I suppose in an attempt to catch the culprit(s) with it Red Handed.

It was also alleged then that after the accused were arrested and confessed, they asked them about this missing phone. One of the accused (which I believe it was Win) had told them they left this with a friend. So it was this confession that led the Police to his friend, who had later testified in court that he had discarded it and threw it away behind his living quarters.

His living quarters was a camp shared by many Migrant Workers with 3 or 4 workers to a room. The reason given by this friend was that he became suspicious as the the Origins of this Mobile Phone. It was later reported that this Mobile Phone was smashed up before it was discarded. To my knowledge there was never a reason given as to why this was given to a friend, or even when and why this friend became suspicious of this phone and when exactly he discarded it.

What is alleged that after the 2 accused recanted their guilty plea they said they had found this Mobile Phone on the beach that night. So since the accused already admitted to having this Mobile Phone, and giving it to a friend, who also admitted this and showed the police where he put it, then their would be no need for doing any Finger Printing or taking DNA, since it would only tell them what they already know.

As to this Mobile Phone being David Millers I find it surprising that they could not link it with just a Bill of Sale or a Warranty Card that David must have someplace, and match that to the Serial Number of the discovered Mobile Phone. But perhaps they couldn't find this on the smashed up phone, or the required documents from David's family or friends. I don't know.

So I am not sure also if a sworn Testimony in court from a high ranking police officer who got verbal confirmation from the SIM Card is enough either. I suppose that is up to the courts to decide. The Defense will have there chance next week to make their case and perhaps then they will clear this all up.