Retirement, Work and Marriage Extensions. What's to come?

[lostoday]

"Just wanted to know what others are foreseeing? Forewarned is forearmed as they say."

Why worry. No one knows.

The biggest problem people have is turning up unprepared and then moaning that immigration have asked for additional this and that. I always visit the office I'm applying at before applying to find out exactly what they want from me. Then no surprises and an easy application process. Relying on reports on forums isn't always going to prepare you as offices can apply the rules differently.

Anyone know how many imm offices there are? 50, 100 and all the problems seem to come from 3 or 4?

[ubonjoe]

There are about 50 immigration offices. I counted 47 on contact info list but one was missing so that is 48. There could be others that are not on the list.

[lostoday]

There are about 50 immigration offices. I counted 47 on contact info list but one was missing so that is 48. There could be others that are not on the list.

So problems with less than 5%, And I gotta think the great majority of extensions are granted by Bangkok, Pattaya and Chiang Mai so actually, probably problems with 2 or 3% of the total extensions granted.

[mommysboy]

It has been reported on this forum and a couple others too that some provincial immigration offices no longer accept those income statements issued by embassies...cash in a Thai bank is all they'll accept. Would you be surprised to see more immigration offices adopting this? Would you be surprised if this became the regulation - show the required amount in a Thai bank account or no further extensions. Would you be surprised if the required amount deposited into a Thai bank account for a retirement extension was increased to THB 1mil - 1.5mil? Wouldn't surprise me, in fact I'm expecting it.

Not exactly correct, They still accept the income letter but are wanting to see a Thai bank book showing the funds coming in as a back up to it.

I don't anticipate any changes to the financial proof needed for extensions.

Joe, you say you don't anticipate any changes regarding financial proof, which is probably true. But there is a danger that immigration can enact subtle changes purely on interpretation that amount to a game changer. Do you anticipate any changes to the financial criterion ?

[mommysboy]

"Just wanted to know what others are foreseeing? Forewarned is forearmed as they say."

Why worry. No one knows.

The biggest problem people have is turning up unprepared and then moaning that immigration have asked for additional this and that. I always visit the office I'm applying at before applying to find out exactly what they want from me. Then no surprises and an easy application process. Relying on reports on forums isn't always going to prepare you as offices can apply the rules differently.

It's a fair point ! Yet clearly you are anticipating to some extent.

Good advice, which I did honestly try, but on turning up at the office I found that what I had been told was nonsense. Specifically, when I first moved to Surat I reported to office to see if I needed to change address, and again asked 2 months before my renewal. On both occasions I was told not to worry and to do it at renewal time. This as it turns wrong was plain wrong. It kicked off a rather stressful chain of events which I already posted on in previous threads.

Maybe the only strategy is to just not worry at all.

[timendres]

It is a known fact that marriage extensions are more difficult and complicated than retirement extensions. Maybe due to more fraud? Not sure. Definitely more paperwork and effort involved for the immigration folks. Dragging human rights into it seems a bit extreme. Thailand is reasonably accommodating for those with spouses. Their rules were quite clear when you married, so you knew what you were getting into. If you believe Thailand is unreasonable, then you should be looking to take your spouse to your country.

As for the capital/income requirements for retirement - the entire purpose of this requirement is to ensure that you are able to support yourself while you live here. Additionally, it helps ensure you are not working on the side to gain needed income. This is entirely reasonable. Try asking the US if you can live there in retirement with $30,000. They would laugh you out of the room.

Being that the numbers for capital/income requirements are for the purpose of your living expenses, it is only reasonable to expect that they will increase over time along with inflation. I sympathize with those who are on fixed incomes or otherwise find these requirements difficult. I too worry about the long term and my finances. But in my opinion Thailand is quite accommodating as a country to all who wish to live here. Of course, there are always annoying requirements and paperwork, as with immigration in any country. But I, and many others, find Thailand to be quite reasonable.

What is amazing to me is the number of people who are trying to live here in a shoestring, unable to maintain a decent standard of living back home, then complain about the rules and requirements. There are many other countries where you can go that are cheaper and easier. Why are you trying to force Thailand to accommodate your situation?

[timendres]

"Just wanted to know what others are foreseeing? Forewarned is forearmed as they say."

Why worry. No one knows.

The biggest problem people have is turning up unprepared and then moaning that immigration have asked for additional this and that. I always visit the office I'm applying at before applying to find out exactly what they want from me. Then no surprises and an easy application process. Relying on reports on forums isn't always going to prepare you as offices can apply the rules differently.

It's a fair point ! Yet clearly you are anticipating to some extent.

Good advice, which I did honestly try, but on turning up at the office I found that what I had been told was nonsense. Specifically, when I first moved to Surat I reported to office to see if I needed to change address, and again asked 2 months before my renewal. On both occasions I was told not to worry and to do it at renewal time. This as it turns wrong was plain wrong. It kicked off a rather stressful chain of events which I already posted on in previous threads.

Maybe the only strategy is to just not worry at all.

There are many references online which could have indicated to you that you needed to file the change of address. Immigration attorneys to consult as well.

I agree that it is bullshit that you ask official representatives and get incorrect information, but this is a common problem. So it behooves you to do your own research. We all learn this lesson the hard way.

[nowretired]

It has been reported on this forum and a couple others too that some provincial immigration offices no longer accept those income statements issued by embassies...cash in a Thai bank is all they'll accept. Would you be surprised to see more immigration offices adopting this? Would you be surprised if this became the regulation - show the required amount in a Thai bank account or no further extensions. Would you be surprised if the required amount deposited into a Thai bank account for a retirement extension was increased to THB 1mil - 1.5mil? Wouldn't surprise me, in fact I'm expecting it.

Not exactly correct, They still accept the income letter but are wanting to see a Thai bank book showing the funds coming in as a back up to it.

I don't anticipate any changes to the financial proof needed for extensions.

Joe, you say you don't anticipate any changes regarding financial proof, which is probably true. But there is a danger that immigration can enact subtle changes purely on interpretation that amount to a game changer. Do you anticipate any changes to the financial criterion ?

Check ubojoe's response.

He quite clearly states he anticipates NO CHANGE to the financial requirements

[mommysboy]

Not exactly correct, They still accept the income letter but are wanting to see a Thai bank book showing the funds coming in as a back up to it.

I don't anticipate any changes to the financial proof needed for extensions.

Well ok, they might physically accept the letter, but clearly not accepting it in any meaningful way. Either it stands good as proof or it doesn't.

In fact if you now have to show sufficient funds in the Thai account, the income letter from the Embassy is superfluous. May as well not bother at all.

So this is a quite big alteration to existing rules without seeming to change the rule itself.

[mommysboy]

It has been reported on this forum and a couple others too that some provincial immigration offices no longer accept those income statements issued by embassies...cash in a Thai bank is all they'll accept. Would you be surprised to see more immigration offices adopting this? Would you be surprised if this became the regulation - show the required amount in a Thai bank account or no further extensions. Would you be surprised if the required amount deposited into a Thai bank account for a retirement extension was increased to THB 1mil - 1.5mil? Wouldn't surprise me, in fact I'm expecting it.

Not exactly correct, They still accept the income letter but are wanting to see a Thai bank book showing the funds coming in as a back up to it.

I don't anticipate any changes to the financial proof needed for extensions.

Joe, you say you don't anticipate any changes regarding financial proof, which is probably true. But there is a danger that immigration can enact subtle changes purely on interpretation that amount to a game changer. Do you anticipate any changes to the financial criterion ?

Check ubojoe's response.

He quite clearly states he anticipates NO CHANGE to the financial requirements

He's quite big enough to answer himself. And will probably do it in a less conflictual manner than you.

He said 'financial proof'. I was not sure whether this just applied to the type of evidence and documentation needed, or the finanacial criterion.

Why are you turning this in to an us against themn slagging match and a contest you must win?

I am just after an open discussion for the benefit of all.

[billd766]

Pure speculation coupled with rumour.

Entirely possible to obtain a visa on the basis of working for a company.

Prediction (right or wrong), not rumour at all.

I predict that the GBP/THB will rise to 58, maybe 59 or even 60 baht this year.

A prediction (right or wrong), not rumour at all.

Who will be more correct, me or you?

If you think I am wrong then try this.

In mid April only 4 months ago the exchange rate was 47.50438. Last Friday it was 55.47563 a rise of nearly 8 baht in 4 months.

The problems that some people, but not everybody, are having seem to be localised in one area and does not appear to be national policy as yet. There is the small possibility that it may change but as has happened previously it could be grandfathered.

Nothing is certain in this life other than taxes and death and taxes can be got around.

My thoughts and not really a prediction at least on the visa side of things.

[lostoday]

Pure speculation coupled with rumour.

Entirely possible to obtain a visa on the basis of working for a company.

Prediction (right or wrong), not rumour at all.

I predict that the GBP/THB will rise to 58, maybe 59 or even 60 baht this year.

A prediction (right or wrong), not rumour at all.

Who will be more correct, me or you?

If you think I am wrong then try this.

In mid April only 4 months ago the exchange rate was 47.50438. Last Friday it was 55.47563 a rise of nearly 8 baht in 4 months.

The problems that some people, but not everybody, are having seem to be localised in one area and does not appear to be national policy as yet. There is the small possibility that it may change but as has happened previously it could be grandfathered.

Nothing is certain in this life other than taxes and death and taxes can be got around.

My thoughts and not really a prediction at least on the visa side of things.

"I predict that the GBP/THB will rise to 58, maybe 59 or even 60 baht this year." Prediction

"a 50 year old, in most provinces, with 880,000 baht can just put the cash in a bank and voila! Sure to be tightened." Rumor

"I predict" Prediction "Sure to be tightened" Rumor/Scaremongering

The difference is you predict and he says it's a sure thing.

If he wanted to make a prediction he would have said, "I think" or "I predict" or I'm not an expert but maybe"

The big difference is the baht is going to go up or down by the hour. It is a thing that changes daily. Immigration rules change once a decade.

[smedly]

it is my understanding that if you had an extension based on retirement from say 20 years ago when the finacial requirement was 200k baht then that is still all you are required to have (making approximations about amounts and dates)

so if you are currently in reciept of an extension requiring 800k then that is not going to change either provided of course you don't let it expire

Maybe someone can clarify the above

I do see however a possible change to how your income is verified, it seems that those from countries like (USA, AUS) were they don't need proof of income to get the embassy letter - just a signed declaration, I can see why immigration may want more, the UK requires evidence before a letter is issued

[ubonjoe]

It has been reported on this forum and a couple others too that some provincial immigration offices no longer accept those income statements issued by embassies...cash in a Thai bank is all they'll accept. Would you be surprised to see more immigration offices adopting this? Would you be surprised if this became the regulation - show the required amount in a Thai bank account or no further extensions. Would you be surprised if the required amount deposited into a Thai bank account for a retirement extension was increased to THB 1mil - 1.5mil? Wouldn't surprise me, in fact I'm expecting it.

Not exactly correct, They still accept the income letter but are wanting to see a Thai bank book showing the funds coming in as a back up to it.

I don't anticipate any changes to the financial proof needed for extensions.

Joe, you say you don't anticipate any changes regarding financial proof, which is probably true. But there is a danger that immigration can enact subtle changes purely on interpretation that amount to a game changer. Do you anticipate any changes to the financial criterion ?

Proof means the requirements, criterion or however you want to say it.

[ubonjoe]

I do see however a possible change to how your income is verified, it seems that those from countries like (USA, AUS) were they don't need proof of income to get the embassy letter - just a signed declaration, I can see why immigration may want more, the UK requires evidence before a letter is issued

The UK require you to submit documents to prove your income but they do not verify they are true and correct. The even accept copies which could easily be made up. They even have a disclaimer as part of the letter that they are not responsible if it is not correct.

Immigration offices that ask for back up proof want it for all types of documents that come from all embassies or consulates. They do not differentiate by country.

[overherebc]

The only people I ever hear talking about 'this may change, that may change' around my way, Rayong, are the ones who have to use an agent to get their retirement extension.

Usually spend every afternoon drinking outside shops where the beer is the cheapest, ie not even in a bar where they just can't afford to drink.

On a single man's UK pension and renting one room for 3-4000 baht a month and continually complaining about the rules in Thailand.

Some even had the money to get a retirement extension when they arrived but married to get a cheaper extension and now struggle when their new Thai wife 30 years younger ran off with all the money straight to her boyfriend waiting in the background.

This is all of course, in their minds, Thailand's fault and the whole idea of seeing the extension criteria changed is their way of hoping that others will have the same problems they have now.

Rant over

[mommysboy]

It has been reported on this forum and a couple others too that some provincial immigration offices no longer accept those income statements issued by embassies...cash in a Thai bank is all they'll accept. Would you be surprised to see more immigration offices adopting this? Would you be surprised if this became the regulation - show the required amount in a Thai bank account or no further extensions. Would you be surprised if the required amount deposited into a Thai bank account for a retirement extension was increased to THB 1mil - 1.5mil? Wouldn't surprise me, in fact I'm expecting it.

Not exactly correct, They still accept the income letter but are wanting to see a Thai bank book showing the funds coming in as a back up to it.

I don't anticipate any changes to the financial proof needed for extensions.

Joe, you say you don't anticipate any changes regarding financial proof, which is probably true. But there is a danger that immigration can enact subtle changes purely on interpretation that amount to a game changer. Do you anticipate any changes to the financial criterion ?

Proof means the requirements, criterion or however you want to say it.

You see moderator's postings carry a lot of weight, meta language is important. Explanations of rationale are important too.

[mommysboy]

"Just wanted to know what others are foreseeing? Forewarned is forearmed as they say."

Why worry. No one knows.

The biggest problem people have is turning up unprepared and then moaning that immigration have asked for additional this and that. I always visit the office I'm applying at before applying to find out exactly what they want from me. Then no surprises and an easy application process. Relying on reports on forums isn't always going to prepare you as offices can apply the rules differently.

It's a fair point ! Yet clearly you are anticipating to some extent.

Good advice, which I did honestly try, but on turning up at the office I found that what I had been told was nonsense. Specifically, when I first moved to Surat I reported to office to see if I needed to change address, and again asked 2 months before my renewal. On both occasions I was told not to worry and to do it at renewal time. This as it turns wrong was plain wrong. It kicked off a rather stressful chain of events which I already posted on in previous threads.

Maybe the only strategy is to just not worry at all.

There are many references online which could have indicated to you that you needed to file the change of address. Immigration attorneys to consult as well.

I agree that it is bullshit that you ask official representatives and get incorrect information, but this is a common problem. So it behooves you to do your own research. We all learn this lesson the hard way.

I knew I had to file a change of address which is why I went to the office. The officers advised otherwise. What can you do?

[mommysboy]

it is my understanding that if you had an extension based on retirement from say 20 years ago when the finacial requirement was 200k baht then that is still all you are required to have (making approximations about amounts and dates)

so if you are currently in reciept of an extension requiring 800k then that is not going to change either provided of course you don't let it expire

Maybe someone can clarify the above

I do see however a possible change to how your income is verified, it seems that those from countries like (USA, AUS) were they don't need proof of income to get the embassy letter - just a signed declaration, I can see why immigration may want more, the UK requires evidence before a letter is issued

Good posting.

Yes I can only vaguely recall the last change and can't inprove on the stats, but I do remember the thresholds went up about double. I did a Google search last night and on the forum too, but couldn't find anything.

You say "it is my understanding that if you had an extension based on retirement from say 20 years ago when the financial requirement was 200k baht then that is still all you are required to have".

I would be pleasantly surprised if this is the case as my impression is new rules and policies tend to apply across the board, that is what I have experienced so far with minor changes anyway. Hoping someone can clarify.

Hoping we get clarity.

[lostoday]

I predict they will change the marriage visa amount in the bank to rise to 800,000 based on the amount required for a retirement extension. It only makes sense that the cost of supporting one expat is the same married or not.

Or perhaps they will lower the retirement extension amount to 400,000 to make it equitable with a marriage extension.

Since retired people bring in more new money to Thailand and don't take away Thai jobs it would make sense in the current economic condition to encourage retirees to locate to Thailand.

[mommysboy]

The only people I ever hear talking about 'this may change, that may change' around my way, Rayong, are the ones who have to use an agent to get their retirement extension.

Usually spend every afternoon drinking outside shops where the beer is the cheapest, ie not even in a bar where they just can't afford to drink.

On a single man's UK pension and renting one room for 3-4000 baht a month and continually complaining about the rules in Thailand.

Some even had the money to get a retirement extension when they arrived but married to get a cheaper extension and now struggle when their new Thai wife 30 years younger ran off with all the money straight to her boyfriend waiting in the background.

This is all of course, in their minds, Thailand's fault and the whole idea of seeing the extension criteria changed is their way of hoping that others will have the same problems they have now.

Rant over

Well It is a bit of a rant , a Monday morning one at that . There are people like this in Thailand though. I wonder if this is behind us married guys being checked out more thoroughly.

The problem is rules and thresholds have changed in the past, and will likely change in the future imo.

So my view is that ideally we need to stay ahead of the curve, and it's good to at least discuss these things in a team way, so we can all plan for the future, work out a few plan b's.

My best guess is that any future change to thresholds is likely to be only 10 -20% this time around. Only some of us need to plan, those who might straddle the current thresholds, or need to work in Thailand and who don't have adequate future pension provisions.

But I reckon the rules will be more vigorously and thoroughly enforced, so it will be necessary to justify and validate income sources. This appears to be already happening at a few offices where they might want to see an account being churned. Again, not a major problem for most.

[billd766]

it is my understanding that if you had an extension based on retirement from say 20 years ago when the finacial requirement was 200k baht then that is still all you are required to have (making approximations about amounts and dates)

so if you are currently in reciept of an extension requiring 800k then that is not going to change either provided of course you don't let it expire

Maybe someone can clarify the above

I do see however a possible change to how your income is verified, it seems that those from countries like (USA, AUS) were they don't need proof of income to get the embassy letter - just a signed declaration, I can see why immigration may want more, the UK requires evidence before a letter is issued

Not only does Immigration want the verification lett from the UK embassy I also supply the original and copies of my pension letters so that they can cross check with the Embassy letter.

[lostoday]

it is my understanding that if you had an extension based on retirement from say 20 years ago when the finacial requirement was 200k baht then that is still all you are required to have (making approximations about amounts and dates)

so if you are currently in reciept of an extension requiring 800k then that is not going to change either provided of course you don't let it expire

Maybe someone can clarify the above

I do see however a possible change to how your income is verified, it seems that those from countries like (USA, AUS) were they don't need proof of income to get the embassy letter - just a signed declaration, I can see why immigration may want more, the UK requires evidence before a letter is issued

Not only does Immigration want the verification lett from the UK embassy I also supply the original and copies of my pension letters so that they can cross check with the Embassy letter.

What imm office and what did they ask for (you said, you supply, but did they ask)? Did they ask in English? Was it a retirement extension?