Buying a new TV

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

When I was out in the Thai stores this past week, it seemed that Samsung and LG models commanded the most units on display and display space, with Toshiba, Panasonic next, and TCL trailing behind. Saw a few Sharps as well.

Ooopps.. There also were typically a few Sony's on display (forgot to mention them above). Maybe 2-4 TVs vs maybe 15 or more each from Samsung and LG.

[IMHO]

FWIW, I read a lot of English-language TV electronics site reviews in the past week focusing on UHD TVs... And at least based on those readings, I came away with the impression that LG at the very top end/high-end of the market makes some of the best (and very expensive) TVs in the world.

But, equally so, at the routine consumer grade product, a lot of the reviews of that level of their TVs were mediocre at best.

For consumer grade UHD TVs, Samsung seemed to get the consistently best reviews. Their units, along with Vizio in the U.S. (but not here), seemed to dominate the reviews of the best/affordable UHD TVs.

When I was out in the Thai stores this past week, it seemed that Samsung and LG models commanded the most units on display and display space, with Toshiba, Panasonic next, and TCL trailing behind. Saw a few Sharps as well.

You cannot judge brand by brand, only model by model, and price by price.

[IMHO]

Well, a bit of an update. I spent a good part of the past week hard researching TV stuff, the different technologies, the different sizes, the different brands, etc.

And, in the end, I opted to buy a relatively low-cost 43-inch, full HD (1920x1080) TCL smart TV for about 13,000b -- and opting not to pay more for a very nice Samsung 40 inch UHD TV I could have had for about 21,000b.

There were two deciding factors for me to go lower budget now:

--1. There are no reasonably priced UHD-HDR TVs on the Thai market right now (note I said UHD AND HDR) AFAIK, but I expect there will be by next year. Samsung, in the U.S. right now, is selling a 40 inch UHD-HDR TV on Amazon for just about $600. But that 2016 model isn't available in Thailand right now, though Samsung customer service in Thailand said their 2016 models should begin arriving in local stores in a month or so. If I'm going to go UHD, from everything I understand about the technology right now, I'd want to the TV to be HDR compliant as well. And unfortunately, that wasn't going to happen for a reasonable price with the current models in the stores right now.

--2. Because of my original concern about how SD and even lower end HD streaming content, as well as my SD Thai cable, would look on a UHD TV, I took a couple USB sticks filled with SD and lower quality HD video files on my computer to the TV stores when I was shopping, and the TV store staff were fine to have me plug in my USB sticks and test play the files. Frankly, while they look ok/fine on my current 32 inch, 720p TV at home, they looked really bad on the 40 inch Samsung UHD TV that I really liked and almost bought (UA40J6400) for 21K.

So if #1 was the only issue, I might have waited a month or two and seen what the 2016 models in Thailand bring into the stores and at what prices. But unfortunately, #2 was an equal concern, and that's one that's not likely to be resolved or improved in such a short timeframe.

So basically, I'm going to give it a year or two and see if HDR technology matures and becomes affordably available here, and also hope that one way or another I can upgrade/improve the international streaming bandwidth I'm currently getting at home in order to reasonably feed a future UHD-HDR larger screen TV, because, among other reasons, I don't expect to be relying on Netflix Thailand for my video content. Not to mention, hoping that the various Thai cable providers will upgrade the quality of their signals to better support UHD.

At the budget you wanted to spend, you were never going to get a high quality panel, so the cheapest/biggest 1080P you can find makes perfect sense.

Don't worry about UHD, HDR, high color gamuts etc until/unless you're willing to spend a whole lot more per square inch

Edited May 5, 2016 by IMHO

[colinchaffers]

This is an interesting article, which says the 4K is superior more so over screens of 60" which is logical. The other side of this if you're looking for a screen of 40" to 50" the quality difference is less.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/1080p-hd-vs-ultra-hd-4k-eyes-video/

[IMHO]

This is an interesting article, which says the 4K is superior more so over screens of 60" which is logical. The other side of this if you're looking for a screen of 40" to 50" the quality difference is less.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/1080p-hd-vs-ultra-hd-4k-eyes-video/

At last, a 4K vs 1080P comparison that makes sense!

The fact is, you can see the difference between 4K and 1080P at distances much more than what commonly gets repeated over and over online, but PQ rules supreme, regardless. That's why I still keep my old Viera 65" plasma, even though I now have some 4K panels, and a 120" 4K projected image in my HT room. It's also why I recently discouraged someone else on these forums from buying a cheap (LG UB770T series) 79" panel

4K low end panels suck. If you want to actually get a PQ improvement over a decent 1080P display, I'm afraid you've gotta spend the money it costs for a decent 4K panel. Same goes for beamers.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

At the budget you wanted to spend, you were never going to get a high quality panel, so the cheapest/biggest 1080P you can find makes perfect sense.

Don't worry about UHD, HDR, high color gamuts etc until/unless you're willing to spend a whole lot more per square inch

Well, I didn't have a budget I "wanted" to spend. What I wanted was a good TV at a good price that's going to look good at home for the things I watch on it, as explained above. I could have spent a fortune and had no budget limit to get a UHD TV, but it wasn't going to look good for my current uses.

But, that aside, I don't accept the notion that a shopper can't find a good/reasonable price (let's say under $1000 U.S. / 35,000b) on a UHD TV that's going to provide a great viewing experience, if the shopper has suitable content to view. Though obviously, the larger the screen one chooses, the prices are going to go correspondingly higher.

4K.com has their April 2016 roundup of what they consider to be the top 10 highest rated 4K UHD TVs based on performance.

The list includes an LG OLED panel for $7000 U.S., but it also includes a Vizio series that starts at $999 for their 50 inch version, a Samsung series that starts at $1000, a Sony 43 in for $800, and several others in the similar price range.

http://4k.com/tv/

Here's what they wrote about the 2016 Vizio P series, including the 50 in. I mentioned above:

Meet what we consider to be one of the best 4K TV lines of 2016 and the best if pricing is considered. Vizio has invested in quality and it shows in their 2016 Vizio P-Series line of 50, 55, 65 and 75 inch TVs. The sheer contrast quality, color saturation and high dynamic range rendering in these new 4K TVs are all among the finest we’ve seen in 2016 4K LCD/LED TV models, but available at prices that are open to the widest possible range of budgets. Vizio has truly delivered quality at a reasonable price and not just by budget TV metrics but even by the standards of premium competitor 4K TVs. With full-array LED backlighting, 10-bit color and the second highest levels of display brightness we’ve seen in 2016’s 4K TV options.

Tom's Guide also has a top 5 UHD TVs of 2016 list, including two under $1000.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/best-4k-ultra-hd-tvs,review-2789.html

And I just noticed, Walmart is selling a very well reviewed 50 in. Samsung UN50JU6401 for $700.

Admittedly, Vizio isn't in Thailand right now, AFAIK, and neither is Walmart. But if those prices and models are available to be had in the U.S. right now, you can expect similar ranges to be coming here soon.

Bottom line: You DON'T have to spend a fortune to get a very good quality UHD TV, even right now.

Edited May 5, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[colinchaffers]

Higher prices don't mean better quality, your eye will be the best arbiter of what is best for you.

[lopburi3]

Admittedly, Vizio isn't in Thailand right now, AFAIK, and neither is Walmart. But if those prices and models are available to be had in the U.S. right now, you can expect similar ranges to be coming here soon.

Not really - the USA is the world marketplace so gets the lowest price as they can sell so much there - Thailand TV models are normally well behind getting here and still much higher priced then when new in larger markets.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yes, but I didn't say exactly the same prices here as in the U.S., I said, "similar ranges".

I'm betting, when all the 2016 models hit the stores here, there will be perfectly good UHD choices available under $1000 / 35,000b, especially in the 40-50 inch screen sizes.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Had the 43 in. TCL TV delivered and set up at home this afternoon. TCL LED 43S4800-Smart from PowerBuy, as I mentioned before.

Paid about 13,000 b for full HD screen. 3 HDMI 1.4 ports, 2 USB 2.0 ports, 1 LAN, 1 VGA, the normal assortment of audio ports, built-in wifi, some kind of what looks like an Android-based app store, but it's not Google Play (though it does offer Kodi, Netflix, TuneIn, Spotify, CNN, ABC, Facebook, Skype and a few other apps of note).

The TV will serve it's purpose and the screen/picture looks fine for the analog and digital cable feed we have at home, plus the various non-Thai video streaming that we do. Also, already plugged in a Roku HDMI stick and a Chromecast HDMI stick, and both appear to function fine.

However, it does have some apparent quirks that are somewhat irksome.

--AFAICT, no headphone audio jack, though it does have a pair of RCA audio out L-R stereo jacks. And it also has Bluetooth, so I guess I could connect a Bluetooth headset instead.

--An on-screen menu that covers the top third of the screen with a big gray info bar every time you change channels, one that stays on for several seconds. And, AFAICT, no way in the settings to turn off or otherwise adjust the on-screen display settings. (I had tried to check the channel tuning in the store, but because none of the sets were connected to any cable or OTA sources, couldn't see any of that until the set came home).

--a channel programming function that allows you to save channels as favorites, delete channels and skip channels. But AFAICT, no way to change or reorder the numbering of channels created via the auto programming scan. So, for reasons I can't fathom, our Happy Home Cable feed in BKK produced a digital range of channels starting with 800 numbers, and the analog channels with a range starting at 9000. Whatever happened to starting with channel 1 and progressing to the end???

--a printed TV manual with the front section in Thai, and the back section in English, but English either written by Thais or translated from Chinese into English. Either way, there are plenty of places where the explanations of things are pretty murky.

Perhaps I should have opted for the Samsung. But, the way I'm looking at it, I'll save the Samsung for the next TV down the road a ways when it's going to be a UHD-HDR model.

Edited May 7, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JaseTheBass]

I also have a TCL (50") that I got dirt cheap. The picture quality is excellent, much better than my 40" Samsung, but the package as a whole, like yours, isn't as well resolved as a more conventional brand.

Edited May 9, 2016 by JaseTheBass

[Gary A]

I have a 32 inch Sony Bravia. I have never been impressed with it because everything I try to plug into it is not compatible. I have a Samsung at home and everything works with it. The Sony is in my condo bedroom so it is VERY seldom used. Today the screen went black except for a thin line across the bottom of the screen. Volume and channel changing work as normal.

Even if it is a minor fix, that is for sure my last Sony product. I HATE that proprietary way Apple and Sony try to do business.

I'm in Jomtien. Does anyone know where I can get this thing repaired?

Edited May 9, 2016 by Gary A

[wpcoe]

However, it does have some apparent quirks that are somewhat irksome.

--AFAICT, no headphone audio jack, though it does have a pair of RCA audio out L-R stereo jacks. And it also has Bluetooth, so I guess I could connect a Bluetooth headset instead.

--An on-screen menu that covers the top third of the screen with a big gray info bar every time you change channels, one that stays on for several seconds. And, AFAICT, no way in the settings to turn off or otherwise adjust the on-screen display settings. (I had tried to check the channel tuning in the store, but because none of the sets were connected to any cable or OTA sources, couldn't see any of that until the set came home).

--a channel programming function that allows you to save channels as favorites, delete channels and skip channels. But AFAICT, no way to change or reorder the numbering of channels created via the auto programming scan. So, for reasons I can't fathom, our Happy Home Cable feed in BKK produced a digital range of channels starting with 800 numbers, and the analog channels with a range starting at 9000. Whatever happened to starting with channel 1 and progressing to the end???

--a printed TV manual with the front section in Thai, and the back section in English, but English either written by Thais or translated from Chinese into English. Either way, there are plenty of places where the explanations of things are pretty murky.

Perhaps I should have opted for the Samsung. But, the way I'm looking at it, I'll save the Samsung for the next TV down the road a ways when it's going to be a UHD-HDR model.

If it makes you feel any better, a few months ago I bought a Samsung 40" smart TV and have most of your same problems: No headset jack, an obscuring onscreen banner when changing channels (though it's at the bottom and I think that might be a function of the True CATV box?), a relatively featureless Favorites function, and a generally useless printed TV manual.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re my new TCL 43S4800-Smart TV, I've been noodling around with it trying to figure out all the remote control commands, and the OS menu system. Like anything new, it takes some getting used to.

But, things got a lot more convenient today when I hooked up a USB wifi mini-keyboard with touchpad, which makes dealing with the TV's apps and app store a lot easier. The TV remote alone is fine for just watching TV and changing channels, but getting into the apps and more involved things really wants an actual keyboard and trackpad instead of the TV remote's clunky one-key-at-a-time on-screen keyboard.

Here's what the TV screen looks like:

And here's what the horrible TCL on-screen overlay looks like every time you change a regular TV channel:

[wpcoe]

I just remembered a (tedious) workaround for that on-screen overlay when changing channels. On an old TV it did that, and there was a button ("INFO"?) on the remote that could invoke that overlay on demand at any time. So, when changing channels I would instinctively pres the button twice in rapid succession and the overlay would clear faster. Definitely not ideal, but it became muscle memory and it took me a while when I got a new TV to stop the automatic urge to do it.

Thanks for the tip about the USB keyboard/mouse. I've been considering getting a Bluetooth keyboard, but forgot about the USB option. Somewhere in a box or cupboard here I have an old USB keyboard. I'm not convinced I'll use the "Smart TV" features (like the browser) much, so it'll be nicer to test it without spending money.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just fyi, I don't know if regular plug and play USB keyboards meant for normal PCs will work or not with smart TVs. I haven't tried using one for that purpose, because for a smart TV, I really want/need a touchpad.

The one I'm using at home is a wifi mini keyboard meant for controlling laptops or TVs. It comes with the remote itself, which has a built-in touch pad surface, and then a small USB dongle that plugs into a USB port on the device to be controlled. No software or drivers involved.

I plugged the little wifi dongle that came with my wifi remote into my TCL Smart TV, turned on the remote itself, and immediately I got a mouse cursor on my TV screen.

My TCL TV also supports Bluetooth, so I could have gone that route as well. Except, I don't have a Bluetooth touchpad keyboard at home (so I would have had to buy one), whereas I already had the mini wifi one sitting on a shelf.

The one I had at home looks something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I5SW8MC/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687642&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003UE52ME&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0KHZZATBXPEHWGN3S8BS

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I just remembered a (tedious) workaround for that on-screen overlay when changing channels. On an old TV it did that, and there was a button ("INFO"?) on the remote that could invoke that overlay on demand at any time. So, when changing channels I would instinctively pres the button twice in rapid succession and the overlay would clear faster. Definitely not ideal, but it became muscle memory and it took me a while when I got a new TV to stop the automatic urge to do it.

Thanks for the tip about the INFO buttom. My TCL also has one, labeled "i", and indeed, pressing it either brings up or removes the overlay info screen. I guess I'm also going to get into the habit of using it.

But, overall, it's stupid and annoying that TCL provides no settings options for controlling/changing that behavior, moving its placement on the screen, shortening its automatic display time, changing the opacity, etc etc.

[JaseTheBass]

Maybe your TV is set on "Store mode" or "Demo mode"? Basically, these shows core features on the TV screen, whilst on display in a shop powered on.

Try pressing the Menu button, navigate to the "Settings menu" on some TVs it's indicated by an icon of a cog or gear. In here, look for something like "Factory Reset" or something similar. Everything will now be set to factory defaults so you just need to go through the language and tuning again. But in here, you'll see the option to choose between Home and Shop. Choose Home if you don't want those things popping up on the screen.

Also, on store mode, if you adjusted any picture or sound settings; then when you turned the TV back on they were reset to default. Home mode, doesn't do this.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just an update on the "smartness" of the TCL smart TVs.

The good news is, the model I purchased comes with 3 HDMI ports, 2 USB 2.0 ports, a VGA port and a LAN port, so it's pretty easy to connect external devices like Roku stick or box, Amazon Fire TV stick or box, Chromecast, or other Android devices, etc etc. And those all work fine and provide a lot of functionality, if you have/use any of them.

The bad news is, the built-in smart TV functions of the set are pretty crippled. TCL is using some kind of Android-based OS for the set and it has its own very limited TLC app store. But, I couldn't find any documentation of what kind of Android OS it's running, and all my efforts to install the core Google-based apps (Play Store, Google Services, etc. and thus gain direct access to the broad world of Android apps) were unsuccessful.

The set came pre-installed with a lot of junky apps that cannot be removed, and the TLC app store had mostly games and a lot of Chinese language learning apps. But it also either came preinstalled with, or had available in its TLC app store, Kodi, Netflix, Youtube, MXPlayer, ES File Explorer, Skype, Facebook, CleanMaster, CNN, ABC, Spotify, TuneIn and Deezer, plus a crippled web browser that can't really be modified and doesn't support downloads.

Using ES File Explorer and setting it up to recognize the TCL set as an "Android TV," I was able to sideload and install a couple other Android apps, including the Firefox browser, AppMgr III (which used to be Apps2SD) and the Amazon app store, although pretty much every app I checked in the Amazon app store once I had installed it showed as non-supported for the TCL set.

So, it would appear that as long as -- 1.] you can download Android apps from sources other than the Play Store, 2.] they are compatible with an older version of the Android OS, and 3.] they don't require Google Services in order to function properly, -- that you ought to be able to install them on the TCL set.

There are no email or messaging clients that I could find on the set or in its apps store. But using the Firefox browser, I was able to access Outlook/Hotmail, Gmail, etc through their web interfaces. I haven't tried installing any standalone Android email apps like Outlook as yet.

[mtls2005]

Some pretty impressive discounts on LG TVs through tomorrow:

http://www.lazada.co.th/storewide-discount-tv-audio-gadgets-lg/

[dddave]

Tall Guy,

It might help you to know that TCL's are sold in the USA under several legacy brand names such a Sylvania, Poloroid and RCA, usually in discount department stores. You can probably Google them and find corresponding models to what you have and maybe get better user information.

Earlier in this long thread, there was some discussion about how difficult it is to get clear info out of sales staff in stores such as Power Buy, Power Mall and others. It is important to understand that here in Thailand, each manufacturer in those stores operates as a concession, inventorying their own merchandise and subsidizing their salespeople. A Sony salesperson is not allowed to sell or even demonstrate a rival's merchandise. Even though a salesperson may have "Power Buy" on the back of his shirt, he is essentially an employee of the manufacturer he is representing. He is neither trained or encouraged to provide any information on a competitors product. If you ask a Sony salesperson about a Panasonic device, he can only take you to find a Panasonic salesperson.

As far as salesfloor media content, naturally the manufacturers want to show their product at it's best; thus the endless loops of highly colorful and visually striking video images. Consider how difficult and expensive it would be to install and then maintain the number of live cable feeds of similar quality content. There is also the factor of not wanting people, including staff more interested in watching whatever is on TV rather than working.

One final note: for what it's worth I have had a 32" low priced LG flatscreen for ten years and a 42" for five years (B13,000) and have never had a problem with either. No dead scanlines, no flicker. I switch cables on the HDMI ports fairly regularly and have never had a malfunction. I would not hesitate to purchase an LG TV again.

Of course, now having said that, both will probably fizzle out tomorrow.

Edited May 24, 2016 by dddave

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just noticed this article re Samsung planning to expand its on-screen advertising presence on its smart-TVs in the U.S., and coming to Europe as well.

No mention of Asia in the article, but if it happens in the U.S. and Europe on their sets, I can't imagine it wouldn't eventually arrive here.

The last thing I want to see when I turn on my smart TV at home is a home page littered with unrelated ads that I haven't requested and don't want.

http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/31/samsung-smart-tv-ads/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Finally found a way to discover what version of Android OS is installed on my TCL 43S4800 Smart TV.

Even though I can't find any screen on the TV OS itself that shows that, by installing the Kodi Android app on the TV, there's a Settings info screen in Kodi that provides those details.

[dddave]

Saw a pretty decent TV deal at PowerMall, Siam Paragon, Bangkok yesterday. An LG 43" LED TV with a very decent sounding soundbar included for B23,000.

[lopburi3]

Depending on model that seems a very high price as LG 43 inch sets sell for as little as 10k these days.

http://www.lazada.co.th/shop-led-tv/lg/?display_size=43

Edited June 8, 2016 by lopburi3