China cuts interest rates again to spur economic growth

Publicus · November 23, 2015

One should thank the CCP Dictators for jeopardising their control and rule over the CCP China. The Deng Xiaoping economy was never sustainable as a central command economy run by autocrats that are completely opposed to parliamentary systems.

As US investor Jim Chanos accurately notes, the Chinese economy is built on quicksand.

Many of us are thankful the CCP lies through their teeth about their economy, always. We can't trust the CCP in anything and the more they lie the more and better we know the fact.

China’s real GDP growth rate plummets to 1.7 percent, not the 7.4 percent reported by the government

http://chinadailymail.com/2015/03/22/chinas-real-gdp-growth-rate-plummets-to-1-7-percent-not-the-7-4-percent-reported-by-the-government/

Daiwa bank in Japan forecast this year the CCP economy will lose 20% by 2020. So this year's crumbling, collapsing, crashing of the economy and financial system is only just beginning. As forecast for many years. That's 20% of the actual numbers, not the "man made" waste data constantly flowing like sewage out of Beijing.

Japanese Researchers Think China’s GDP Could Crash to Minus 20 Percent in Next 5 Years

Hong Kong News

http://viewhk.blogspot.com/2015/09/japanese-researchers-think-chinas-gdp.html

There are people who believe lies because they are naive. Then there other people who believe lies because they knowingly choose to participate in the lies. Others outright disseminate them, actively.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Publicus

LawrenceChee · November 23, 2015

It seems strange there are posters who call the CCP dictators all the time ...

Anyone with a clear mind understands Politicians are Politicians .....the only difference is that whatever the CCP decides it's affects billions ...compared to some western democracies it's like comparing minions to actuals as some countries can barely manage its social systems and welfare and their population doesn't surpass even the municipal cities of China

As such what you need its strong leadership that can hopefully steer the country with minimal errors ...the CCP will make errors as any leadership would , hopefully the impact is minimal as they adjust and hope to find an alignment to creating a balanced environment

I would like to a slower China and a more decisive CCP taking control on environmental protection.

There are Chinese cities and heritage with historical values and I hope to see them preserved for the next generation to appreciate

Edited November 23, 2015 by LawrenceChee

Publicus · November 23, 2015

BEIJING, Oct 8 — China's central bank today launched the China International Payment System (CIPS), a worldwide payments superhighway for the yuan to facilitate trade settlement and investment dominated in the yuan. - See more at: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/money/article/china-launches-yuan-cross-border-interbank-payment-system#sthash.CPS9me6y.dpuf

Dictators and dictatorship belongs to the darkest times of history. Those countries still living in their history need to be brought into the modern post European Enlightenment world asap. Before they do further damage.

Those who think in the past cannot succeed in the present, much less command the future. Their New World Order is in fact the Old World Millennia of Horrors.

China’s SWIFT alternative (CIPS) and the engineered death of the dollar

POSTED BY LOU ⋅

MARCH 31, 2015

Now those who are concerned about the US-bloc’s superpower status and its seemingly monolithic control over the highly-centralised financial system represented by institutions like SWIFT are being asked to put their faith in an “alternative” system of centralised control that happens to be in the hands of Beijing

But let’s imagine that, somehow, in some way, the Chinese Communists were actually artfully deluding the Kissingers and the Brzezinskis and the other paymasters and chessmasters of China’s economic “miracle” and actually did intend to use their new-found power for themselves.

To what end would they possibly use it? As a series of billboards popping up around Bangkok and other locations in recent months suggest, it is nothing less than to create a “New World Currency” to further consolidate their power on the international stage. Meet the New New World Order, same as the Old New World Order. Either way, all you get is centralised power-hungry tyrants lording over centralised bureaucracies like the IMF, the World Bank, the SDR, SWIFT, CIPS, the BRICS bank or the “people’s currency” of the yuan.

http://chinadailymail.com/2015/03/31/chinas-swift-alternative-cips-and-the-engineered-death-of-the-dollar/

China's history over thousands of years is the well known history of continuing failure interspersed by some few and brief periods of a relative success. China's current formula is another mangled one that combines Marx. Engels, Lenin, Mao, Deng Xiaoping. So that's yet another guaranteed loser happening right before our eyes.

As to the CCP economy and society that got shat out of this mangled mixture of mental manure, it's the old saying that figures don't lie but liars know how to figure.

sandyf · November 23, 2015

It seems strange there are posters who call the CCP dictators all the time ...

It is not that strange, it was national policy for some not that long ago. They just cannot let go and embrace a wider picture.

As you say China has a heritage and culture going back thousands of years but their way of life and values are mainly criticised by those that have no real history of their own.

Publicus · November 23, 2015

It seems strange there are posters who call the CCP dictators all the time ...

It is not that strange, it was national policy for some not that long ago. They just cannot let go and embrace a wider picture.

As you say China has a heritage and culture going back thousands of years but their way of life and values are mainly criticised by those that have no real history of their own.

Anyone who wants the history of the past 3000 years in China or anywhere else can have it.

Just don't try to take the modern world back there with you. CCP are revanchist and irredentist.

The modern world is moving forward. Even the Chinese people don't like that their government, its politics, economics, financial system, society, is based on a mid-19th century German eccentric Jewish European guy and his rich benefactor in England. It's yet another boneheaded thing that keeps China in the losers bracket of history right up to the present.

Many Chinese don't like the Lenin part of it either. As for Mao, even the CCP teaches in all the schools and at party meetings Mao was 70% right. We know that's 100% wrong....and then some. Deng doesn't look so good any more either. That's true on the mainland, but Deng never looked good in Hong Kong. All of 'em are viewed from Taiwan as another bunch in a long line of loser autocrats.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Publicus

LawrenceChee · November 23, 2015

It seems strange there are posters who call the CCP dictators all the time ...
It is not that strange, it was national policy for some not that long ago. They just cannot let go and embrace a wider picture.
As you say China has a heritage and culture going back thousands of years but their way of life and values are mainly criticised by those that have no real history of their own.

Anyone who wants the history of the past 3000 years in China or anywhere else can have it.

Just don't try to take the modern world back there with you. CCP are revanchist and irredentist.

The modern world is moving forward. Even the Chinese people don't like that their government, its politics, economics, financial system, society, is based on a mid-19th century German eccentric Jewish European guy and his rich benefactor in England. It's yet another boneheaded thing that keeps China in the losers bracket of history right up to the present.

Many Chinese don't like the Lenin part of it either. As for Mao, even the CCP teaches in all the schools and at party meetings Mao was 70% right. We know that's 100% wrong....and then some. Deng doesn't look so good any more either. That's true on the mainland, but Deng never looked good in Hong Kong. All of 'em are viewed from Taiwan as another bunch in a long line of loser autocrats.

The Chinese are pragmatic about governments and politics ...like I say for fiery speeches on government join in a closed family group and their discussions there rival any American stuff on TV ...they just don't like to go public about their views

Chinese don't like their government but unlike the west as long as it serves a purpose and doesn't do too much damage to their personal lives most Chinese an empathetic to just let it function

Ranting on TV and wanting a voice etc is very western and may not be right / wrong ...just doesn't appeal to the Chinese to do that ...so stop painting the Chinese like they are oppressed or something ...they have a way to vent their views ...it's in a private forum

I am proud of my heritage and the 5000 year history ...when some posters here can read calligraphy and Chinese poems I believe they are in a position to critic the nature of it until then ...it's hot air keyboard hubris

I know it's not the easiest language to learn unlike English ...sorry

ExpatOilWorker · November 23, 2015

It seems strange there are posters who call the CCP dictators all the time ...
It is not that strange, it was national policy for some not that long ago. They just cannot let go and embrace a wider picture.
As you say China has a heritage and culture going back thousands of years but their way of life and values are mainly criticised by those that have no real history of their own.

Chinas proud history include 7 of the Worlds 10 biggest wars by number of casualties. Slaughtering each other seem to be their biggest talent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

LawrenceChee · November 23, 2015

It seems strange there are posters who call the CCP dictators all the time ...
It is not that strange, it was national policy for some not that long ago. They just cannot let go and embrace a wider picture.
As you say China has a heritage and culture going back thousands of years but their way of life and values are mainly criticised by those that have no real history of their own.

Chinas proud history include 7 of the Worlds 10 biggest wars by number of casualties. Slaughtering each other seem to be their biggest talent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

I believe a civilised society looks at its history with pride and there must be moments in a 5000 year history where there are dark moments.

I am proud because of my race , our love for tea , calligraphy and poems , artistic ceramic and ability to adapt to many commercial enterprise and turn it into a success

I am wondering if the poster can name any country with a history that has zero casualties or any evilness and it's all saintly. There are many talents of being Chinese and being one myself I understand it well and hope posters would respect that while there are bad Chinese around , there are also respectable ones that one has to know if one is open

I have been open to western cultures , be nice to continue to meet many who embrace Chinese culture as interesting and good to know

sandyf · November 23, 2015

It seems strange there are posters who call the CCP dictators all the time ...
It is not that strange, it was national policy for some not that long ago. They just cannot let go and embrace a wider picture.
As you say China has a heritage and culture going back thousands of years but their way of life and values are mainly criticised by those that have no real history of their own.

Chinas proud history include 7 of the Worlds 10 biggest wars by number of casualties. Slaughtering each other seem to be their biggest talent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

I believe a civilised society looks at its history with pride and there must be moments in a 5000 year history where there are dark moments.

I am proud because of my race , our love for tea , calligraphy and poems , artistic ceramic and ability to adapt to many commercial enterprise and turn it into a success

I am wondering if the poster can name any country with a history that has zero casualties or any evilness and it's all saintly. There are many talents of being Chinese and being one myself I understand it well and hope posters would respect that while there are bad Chinese around , there are also respectable ones that one has to know if one is open

I have been open to western cultures , be nice to continue to meet many who embrace Chinese culture as interesting and good to know

Quite right, some people tend to ignore the fact they are not from the indigenous population.

My wife is Thai but her grandfather was Chinese and the family follows the traditions of both countries. Her niece is at Sun Yat Sen university.

Publicus · November 23, 2015

It seems strange there are posters who call the CCP dictators all the time ...
It is not that strange, it was national policy for some not that long ago. They just cannot let go and embrace a wider picture.
As you say China has a heritage and culture going back thousands of years but their way of life and values are mainly criticised by those that have no real history of their own.

Anyone who wants the history of the past 3000 years in China or anywhere else can have it.

Just don't try to take the modern world back there with you. CCP are revanchist and irredentist.

The modern world is moving forward. Even the Chinese people don't like that their government, its politics, economics, financial system, society, is based on a mid-19th century German eccentric Jewish European guy and his rich benefactor in England. It's yet another boneheaded thing that keeps China in the losers bracket of history right up to the present.

Many Chinese don't like the Lenin part of it either. As for Mao, even the CCP teaches in all the schools and at party meetings Mao was 70% right. We know that's 100% wrong....and then some. Deng doesn't look so good any more either. That's true on the mainland, but Deng never looked good in Hong Kong. All of 'em are viewed from Taiwan as another bunch in a long line of loser autocrats.

The Chinese are pragmatic about governments and politics ...like I say for fiery speeches on government join in a closed family group and their discussions there rival any American stuff on TV ...they just don't like to go public about their views

Chinese don't like their government but unlike the west as long as it serves a purpose and doesn't do too much damage to their personal lives most Chinese an empathetic to just let it function

Ranting on TV and wanting a voice etc is very western and may not be right / wrong ...just doesn't appeal to the Chinese to do that ...so stop painting the Chinese like they are oppressed or something ...they have a way to vent their views ...it's in a private forum

I am proud of my heritage and the 5000 year history ...when some posters here can read calligraphy and Chinese poems I believe they are in a position to critic the nature of it until then ...it's hot air keyboard hubris

I know it's not the easiest language to learn unlike English ...sorry

There are many cultures throughout the world that have a long history of keeping your mouth shut publicly. It's sometimes an unwritten rule. Written or unwritten, break the rule and one can literally lose your tongue and maybe lose your family too. In the CCP China the rule is a written one. It shouts in huge letters/characters. CCP are a censoring fascist dictatorship. A twenty-first century fascism.

There is nothing unique, precious or commendable about a dictatorship and its punishing censorship in a one party state where only emperors have ruled for thousands of years. Contemporary emperors who rule in business suits are nothing unique or precious. CCP is a young and nervous dynasty, terrified of any criticism or critique. They are indefensible.

It is likewise arbitrary to set standards others can't ordinarily meet in order specifically to set up the others to fail. Calligraphy and Chinese poems in their native Chinese are not for everyone. They are unique to China, which makes it impossible to require anyone who has a critique or criticism of the place to know either or both....or anything else uniquely Chinese. To require or suggest it is absurd and a summary judgement presumed legitimate from on high.

No one here has demanded a Chinese person discuss Walt Whitman, or the versatile writing styles of Mark Twain (S. Clemens), or uniquely American jazz music. Or to discuss a George Rockwell painting as prerequisite to criticising democracy or American society, culture, government, its founders, leaders, great achievements. For a young country, the United States has a lot of history. Older than its years, as people say.

Lao Tzu is universally regarded as a genius of military strategy and tactics, but no Chinese general has ever applied him successfully or adeptly. No Chinese general has won a great war whether the general and his sad army of Chinese did or did not fire a shot.

The CCP Dictators in Beijing are hardly practical as they disrespect success while they believe their own country's sad history necessarily makes them masters of the universe. Their crumbling and collapsing economy prove their incompetence. Their actions in SCS prove the CCP are indeed klutzes.

Publicus · November 23, 2015

It seems strange there are posters who call the CCP dictators all the time ...
It is not that strange, it was national policy for some not that long ago. They just cannot let go and embrace a wider picture.
As you say China has a heritage and culture going back thousands of years but their way of life and values are mainly criticised by those that have no real history of their own.

Chinas proud history include 7 of the Worlds 10 biggest wars by number of casualties. Slaughtering each other seem to be their biggest talent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

I believe a civilised society looks at its history with pride and there must be moments in a 5000 year history where there are dark moments.

I am proud because of my race , our love for tea , calligraphy and poems , artistic ceramic and ability to adapt to many commercial enterprise and turn it into a success

I am wondering if the poster can name any country with a history that has zero casualties or any evilness and it's all saintly. There are many talents of being Chinese and being one myself I understand it well and hope posters would respect that while there are bad Chinese around , there are also respectable ones that one has to know if one is open

I have been open to western cultures , be nice to continue to meet many who embrace Chinese culture as interesting and good to know

Good post so you sometimes take personal advice well.

However, here the post continues to think in terms of "race." That is a fault and severe flaw of having too much history, ethnicity, pride.

Too many people while I was there asked me about "race." They said I could speak openly to them and frankly to them, and to each of 'em only.

I said I see colors, hues, palefaces if you will, cultures, societies, customs, traditions, values, families, friends, professionals.....and much more, i.e., people trying to make it so to speak.

The human race.

Race and religion are our worst aspects. So not everyone is perfect after all.

ExpatOilWorker · November 23, 2015

One should thank the CCP Dictators for jeopardising their control and rule over the CCP China. The Deng Xiaoping economy was never sustainable as a central command economy run by autocrats that are completely opposed to parliamentary systems.

As US investor Jim Chanos accurately notes, the Chinese economy is built on quicksand.

Many of us are thankful the CCP lies through their teeth about their economy, always. We can't trust the CCP in anything and the more they lie the more and better we know the fact.

Chinas real GDP growth rate plummets to 1.7 percent, not the 7.4 percent reported by the government

http://chinadailymail.com/2015/03/22/chinas-real-gdp-growth-rate-plummets-to-1-7-percent-not-the-7-4-percent-reported-by-the-government/

Daiwa bank in Japan forecast this year the CCP economy will lose 20% by 2020. So this year's crumbling, collapsing, crashing of the economy and financial system is only just beginning. As forecast for many years. That's 20% of the actual numbers, not the "man made" waste data constantly flowing like sewage out of Beijing.

Japanese Researchers Think Chinas GDP Could Crash to Minus 20 Percent in Next 5 Years

Hong Kong News[/size]

Any idea why the 1.7% GDP number was revealed by the China Daily Mail?

Aren't they suppose to dance to the tune of the party?

Edited November 23, 2015 by ExpatOilWorker

Publicus · November 23, 2015

It is not that strange, it was national policy for some not that long ago. They just cannot let go and embrace a wider picture.
As you say China has a heritage and culture going back thousands of years but their way of life and values are mainly criticised by those that have no real history of their own.

Chinas proud history include 7 of the Worlds 10 biggest wars by number of casualties. Slaughtering each other seem to be their biggest talent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

I believe a civilised society looks at its history with pride and there must be moments in a 5000 year history where there are dark moments.

I am proud because of my race , our love for tea , calligraphy and poems , artistic ceramic and ability to adapt to many commercial enterprise and turn it into a success

I am wondering if the poster can name any country with a history that has zero casualties or any evilness and it's all saintly. There are many talents of being Chinese and being one myself I understand it well and hope posters would respect that while there are bad Chinese around , there are also respectable ones that one has to know if one is open

I have been open to western cultures , be nice to continue to meet many who embrace Chinese culture as interesting and good to know

Quite right, some people tend to ignore the fact they are not from the indigenous population.

My wife is Thai but her grandfather was Chinese and the family follows the traditions of both countries. Her niece is at Sun Yat Sen university.

Race again.

It is rare for a fahlang to become a 100% Thai. It is common so many foreigners are incapable to appreciate being American. (Some certain self-exiled expat Americans included.)

Still, there remains among so many people race, race, race. They remain still in the deep dark ugly past. There is culture without race yet too many miss the fact.

To say again -- race and religion. Nothing's worse than either or both.

Publicus · November 23, 2015

One should thank the CCP Dictators for jeopardising their control and rule over the CCP China. The Deng Xiaoping economy was never sustainable as a central command economy run by autocrats that are completely opposed to parliamentary systems.

As US investor Jim Chanos accurately notes, the Chinese economy is built on quicksand.

Many of us are thankful the CCP lies through their teeth about their economy, always. We can't trust the CCP in anything and the more they lie the more and better we know the fact.

Chinas real GDP growth rate plummets to 1.7 percent, not the 7.4 percent reported by the government

http://chinadailymail.com/2015/03/22/chinas-real-gdp-growth-rate-plummets-to-1-7-percent-not-the-7-4-percent-reported-by-the-government/

Daiwa bank in Japan forecast this year the CCP economy will lose 20% by 2020. So this year's crumbling, collapsing, crashing of the economy and financial system is only just beginning. As forecast for many years. That's 20% of the actual numbers, not the "man made" waste data constantly flowing like sewage out of Beijing.

Japanese Researchers Think Chinas GDP Could Crash to Minus 20 Percent in Next 5 Years

Hong Kong News[/size]

Any idea why the 1.7% GDP number was revealed by the China Daily Mail?

Aren't they suppose to dance to the tune of the party?

It's like the old saying, if you have to ask the price you can't afford it.

So, conversely, read the China Daily Mail for even a short time and one sees they mean what they say about themselves at their website.....

CHINA DAILY MAIL

China Daily Mail is not affiliated in any way with The China Daily or the government of the People's Republic of China.

http://chinadailymail.com/2015/11/10/chinas-economy-is-worse-than-you-think-2/

Another example from China Daily Mail.....

China’s economy is worse than you think

Sure doesn’t look like the world’s workshop

http://chinadailymail.com/2015/11/10/chinas-economy-is-worse-than-you-think-2/

Sort of an Economist zine about the CCP and their PRC.

There are of course a lot of journals about the PRC and many have the name "China _________"

Most of the time one needs a scorecard.

China Digital Times is different from China Times. This is just one instance. Specifically, China Digital Times is independent and focuses on internet censorship. China Times is a CCP mouthpiece.

Want China Times is independent, recently sold to a nebulous Chinese guy in the USA all of us are still trying to figure out cause he's well connected with reformers on the mainland and with Maoist anti-reformers.

Global Times is a CCP rag run by the PLA to be stridently nationalist.

The dozens of China journals are boxes inside boxes, pardon the cliche'.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Publicus

LawrenceChee · November 23, 2015

It seems strange there are posters who call the CCP dictators all the time ...
It is not that strange, it was national policy for some not that long ago. They just cannot let go and embrace a wider picture.

As you say China has a heritage and culture going back thousands of years but their way of life and values are mainly criticised by those that have no real history of their own.

Anyone who wants the history of the past 3000 years in China or anywhere else can have it.

Just don't try to take the modern world back there with you. CCP are revanchist and irredentist.

The modern world is moving forward. Even the Chinese people don't like that their government, its politics, economics, financial system, society, is based on a mid-19th century German eccentric Jewish European guy and his rich benefactor in England. It's yet another boneheaded thing that keeps China in the losers bracket of history right up to the present.

Many Chinese don't like the Lenin part of it either. As for Mao, even the CCP teaches in all the schools and at party meetings Mao was 70% right. We know that's 100% wrong....and then some. Deng doesn't look so good any more either. That's true on the mainland, but Deng never looked good in Hong Kong. All of 'em are viewed from Taiwan as another bunch in a long line of loser autocrats.

The Chinese are pragmatic about governments and politics ...like I say for fiery speeches on government join in a closed family group and their discussions there rival any American stuff on TV ...they just don't like to go public about their views

Chinese don't like their government but unlike the west as long as it serves a purpose and doesn't do too much damage to their personal lives most Chinese an empathetic to just let it function

Ranting on TV and wanting a voice etc is very western and may not be right / wrong ...just doesn't appeal to the Chinese to do that ...so stop painting the Chinese like they are oppressed or something ...they have a way to vent their views ...it's in a private forum

I am proud of my heritage and the 5000 year history ...when some posters here can read calligraphy and Chinese poems I believe they are in a position to critic the nature of it until then ...it's hot air keyboard hubris

I know it's not the easiest language to learn unlike English ...sorry

There are many cultures throughout the world that have a long history of keeping your mouth shut publicly. It's sometimes an unwritten rule. Written or unwritten, break the rule and one can literally lose your tongue and maybe lose your family too. In the CCP China the rule is a written one. It shouts in huge letters/characters. CCP are a censoring fascist dictatorship. A twenty-first century fascism.

There is nothing unique, precious or commendable about a dictatorship and its punishing censorship in a one party state where only emperors have ruled for thousands of years. Contemporary emperors who rule in business suits are nothing unique or precious. CCP is a young and nervous dynasty, terrified of any criticism or critique. They are indefensible.

It is likewise arbitrary to set standards others can't ordinarily meet in order specifically to set up the others to fail. Calligraphy and Chinese poems in their native Chinese are not for everyone. They are unique to China, which makes it impossible to require anyone who has a critique or criticism of the place to know either or both....or anything else uniquely Chinese. To require or suggest it is absurd and a summary judgement presumed legitimate from on high.

No one here has demanded a Chinese person discuss Walt Whitman, or the versatile writing styles of Mark Twain (S. Clemens), or uniquely American jazz music. Or to discuss a George Rockwell painting as prerequisite to criticising democracy or American society, culture, government, its founders, leaders, great achievements. For a young country, the United States has a lot of history. Older than its years, as people say.

Lao Tzu is universally regarded as a genius of military strategy and tactics, but no Chinese general has ever applied him successfully or adeptly. No Chinese general has won a great war whether the general and his sad army of Chinese did or did not fire a shot.

The CCP Dictators in Beijing are hardly practical as they disrespect success while they believe their own country's sad history necessarily makes them masters of the universe. Their crumbling and collapsing economy prove their incompetence. Their actions in SCS prove the CCP are indeed klutzes.

Is this allowed in a forum just pure hatred political bashing

and all the angry terms used you would have thought the CCP had you in a coop

wow the wonders of American TV rants ...I kind of miss it at times when I fly around the world and luckily there are posters here who remind me of these talk trash shows that are just opinionated and hot air nothing more than pure laughs and entertainment

Thanks for making Monday entertaining

!

LawrenceChee · November 23, 2015

One should thank the CCP Dictators for jeopardising their control and rule over the CCP China. The Deng Xiaoping economy was never sustainable as a central command economy run by autocrats that are completely opposed to parliamentary systems.

As US investor Jim Chanos accurately notes, the Chinese economy is built on quicksand.

Many of us are thankful the CCP lies through their teeth about their economy, always. We can't trust the CCP in anything and the more they lie the more and better we know the fact.

Chinas real GDP growth rate plummets to 1.7 percent, not the 7.4 percent reported by the government

http://chinadailymail.com/2015/03/22/chinas-real-gdp-growth-rate-plummets-to-1-7-percent-not-the-7-4-percent-reported-by-the-government/

Daiwa bank in Japan forecast this year the CCP economy will lose 20% by 2020. So this year's crumbling, collapsing, crashing of the economy and financial system is only just beginning. As forecast for many years. That's 20% of the actual numbers, not the "man made" waste data constantly flowing like sewage out of Beijing.

Japanese Researchers Think Chinas GDP Could Crash to Minus 20 Percent in Next 5 Years

Hong Kong News[/size]

Any idea why the 1.7% GDP number was revealed by the China Daily Mail?

Aren't they suppose to dance to the tune of the party?

It's like the old saying, if you have to ask the price you can't afford it.

So, conversely, read the China Daily Mail for even a short time and one sees they mean what they say about themselves at their website.....

CHINA DAILY MAIL

China Daily Mail is not affiliated in any way with The China Daily or the government of the People's Republic of China.

http://chinadailymail.com/2015/11/10/chinas-economy-is-worse-than-you-think-2/

Another example from China Daily Mail.....

China’s economy is worse than you think

Sure doesn’t look like the world’s workshop

http://chinadailymail.com/2015/11/10/chinas-economy-is-worse-than-you-think-2/

Sort of an Economist zine about the CCP and their PRC.

There are of course a lot of journals about the PRC and many have the name "China _________"

Most of the time one needs a scorecard.

China Digital Times is different from China Times. This is just one instance. Specifically, China Digital Times is independent and focuses on internet censorship. China Times is a CCP mouthpiece.

Want China Times is independent, recently sold to a nebulous Chinese guy in the USA all of us are still trying to figure out cause he's well connected with reformers on the mainland and with Maoist anti-reformers.

Global Times is a CCP rag run by the PLA to be stridently nationalist.

The dozens of China journals are boxes inside boxes, pardon the cliche'.

Probably like Fox News ....

squarethecircle · November 23, 2015

Fox News is clear about its bias and revels in out, and outperforms CNN and MSNBC on a daily basis. It has a level of honesty none of the other publications mentioned here possess. Way off track but just a kind reminder this entire discussion is illegal according to PRC law. (Like the 3rd wing feminists in Canada who are trying to have someone who simply criticized feminism on Twitter arrested and placed in jail).

Publicus · November 23, 2015

Interesting about Faux.

CCP cadre whose full time job is to 'instruct' in the schools colleges and universities on politics and party doctrine cite Fox News and Opinion regularly and consistently.

The CCP cadre present Fox as the views of America and Americans. All of us.

The Cadre instruct/indoctrinate that CNN, which no CCP Chinese can receive without permission and an astronomical fee, is the same same, just different people and corporation competing to outFox Faux. Nobody there gets Faux either, so the Cadre present it in videos in class or on cctv in classrooms, which most urban schools.have. Translations are of course provided to include the Mandarin characters constantly popping up on the screen..

So one can begin to understand several factors about the CCP. One they lie like Persian rugs but then we knew that. Two they are not only duplicitous, they are deliberately devious, calculating, and full time into disinformation and deceit. Control. Everyone here would be thrilled to know Donald Trump is America too. Also, that HR Clinton hates China and will damage China, destroy relations.

Not all the news from Cadre is completely wrong however. Cadre instruct that GW Bush is the idiot democracies deserve and that Barack Obama is, well, black. Black as in race. One has no doubt whatsoever btw Barack Obama picked up on that an hour into this first visit there as POTUS. The CCP is certain it has Americans figured about GW Bush. But they are hornswaggled about President Barack Hussein Obama. The guy Fauz says is from Kenya. By way of Indonesia.

CCP Chinese don't ask much about Obama. They're still trying to figure out the question. Chinese never ask why, they always ask how, so they're still working from that starting point.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Publicus

Publicus · November 23, 2015

Anyone who wants the history of the past 3000 years in China or anywhere else can have it.

Just don't try to take the modern world back there with you. CCP are revanchist and irredentist.

The modern world is moving forward. Even the Chinese people don't like that their government, its politics, economics, financial system, society, is based on a mid-19th century German eccentric Jewish European guy and his rich benefactor in England. It's yet another boneheaded thing that keeps China in the losers bracket of history right up to the present.

Many Chinese don't like the Lenin part of it either. As for Mao, even the CCP teaches in all the schools and at party meetings Mao was 70% right. We know that's 100% wrong....and then some. Deng doesn't look so good any more either. That's true on the mainland, but Deng never looked good in Hong Kong. All of 'em are viewed from Taiwan as another bunch in a long line of loser autocrats.

The Chinese are pragmatic about governments and politics ...like I say for fiery speeches on government join in a closed family group and their discussions there rival any American stuff on TV ...they just don't like to go public about their views

Chinese don't like their government but unlike the west as long as it serves a purpose and doesn't do too much damage to their personal lives most Chinese an empathetic to just let it function

Ranting on TV and wanting a voice etc is very western and may not be right / wrong ...just doesn't appeal to the Chinese to do that ...so stop painting the Chinese like they are oppressed or something ...they have a way to vent their views ...it's in a private forum

I am proud of my heritage and the 5000 year history ...when some posters here can read calligraphy and Chinese poems I believe they are in a position to critic the nature of it until then ...it's hot air keyboard hubris

I know it's not the easiest language to learn unlike English ...sorry

There are many cultures throughout the world that have a long history of keeping your mouth shut publicly. It's sometimes an unwritten rule. Written or unwritten, break the rule and one can literally lose your tongue and maybe lose your family too. In the CCP China the rule is a written one. It shouts in huge letters/characters. CCP are a censoring fascist dictatorship. A twenty-first century fascism.

There is nothing unique, precious or commendable about a dictatorship and its punishing censorship in a one party state where only emperors have ruled for thousands of years. Contemporary emperors who rule in business suits are nothing unique or precious. CCP is a young and nervous dynasty, terrified of any criticism or critique. They are indefensible.

It is likewise arbitrary to set standards others can't ordinarily meet in order specifically to set up the others to fail. Calligraphy and Chinese poems in their native Chinese are not for everyone. They are unique to China, which makes it impossible to require anyone who has a critique or criticism of the place to know either or both....or anything else uniquely Chinese. To require or suggest it is absurd and a summary judgement presumed legitimate from on high.

No one here has demanded a Chinese person discuss Walt Whitman, or the versatile writing styles of Mark Twain (S. Clemens), or uniquely American jazz music. Or to discuss a George Rockwell painting as prerequisite to criticising democracy or American society, culture, government, its founders, leaders, great achievements. For a young country, the United States has a lot of history. Older than its years, as people say.

Lao Tzu is universally regarded as a genius of military strategy and tactics, but no Chinese general has ever applied him successfully or adeptly. No Chinese general has won a great war whether the general and his sad army of Chinese did or did not fire a shot.

The CCP Dictators in Beijing are hardly practical as they disrespect success while they believe their own country's sad history necessarily makes them masters of the universe. Their crumbling and collapsing economy prove their incompetence. Their actions in SCS prove the CCP are indeed klutzes.

Is this allowed in a forum just pure hatred political bashing and all the angry terms used you would have thought the CCP had you in a coop

wow the wonders of American TV rants ...I kind of miss it at times when I fly around the world and luckily there are posters here who remind me of these talk trash shows that are just opinionated and hot air nothing more than pure laughs and entertainment

Thanks for making Monday entertaining !

Think nothing of it cause it was done without effort or sweat. All in a day's work so to speak.

Good that you feel in that way. Your posts are a river to me.

Catch you later.

LawrenceChee · November 24, 2015

Interesting about Faux.

CCP cadre whose full time job is to 'instruct' in the schools colleges and universities on politics and party doctrine cite Fox News and Opinion regularly and consistently.

The CCP cadre present Fox as the views of America and Americans. All of us.

The Cadre instruct/indoctrinate that CNN, which no CCP Chinese can receive without permission and an astronomical fee, is the same same, just different people and corporation competing to outFox Faux. Nobody there gets Faux either, so the Cadre present it in videos in class or on cctv in classrooms, which most urban schools.have. Translations are of course provided to include the Mandarin characters constantly popping up on the screen..

So one can begin to understand several factors about the CCP. One they lie like Persian rugs but then we knew that. Two they are not only duplicitous, they are deliberately devious, calculating, and full time into disinformation and deceit. Control. Everyone here would be thrilled to know Donald Trump is America too. Also, that HR Clinton hates China and will damage China, destroy relations.

Not all the news from Cadre is completely wrong however. Cadre instruct that GW Bush is the idiot democracies deserve and that Barack Obama is, well, black. Black as in race. One has no doubt whatsoever btw Barack Obama picked up on that an hour into this first visit there as POTUS. The CCP is certain it has Americans figured about GW Bush. But they are hornswaggled about President Barack Hussein Obama. The guy Fauz says is from Kenya. By way of Indonesia.

CCP Chinese don't ask much about Obama. They're still trying to figure out the question. Chinese never ask why, they always ask how, so they're still working from that starting point.

This in summary sounds like another name in the west ...paid lobbyists in suits ....I'm sure they look better than the cadres in China in green suits

After all they are paid better and have more bribery and incentives than the paid cadres

Guess politics is the same worldwide it stinks but you need governments. Any name sounds good but all depend on a clear mind in accepting the policies or not

sandyf · November 24, 2015

I believe a civilised society looks at its history with pride and there must be moments in a 5000 year history where there are dark moments.
I am proud because of my race , our love for tea , calligraphy and poems , artistic ceramic and ability to adapt to many commercial enterprise and turn it into a success

I am wondering if the poster can name any country with a history that has zero casualties or any evilness and it's all saintly. There are many talents of being Chinese and being one myself I understand it well and hope posters would respect that while there are bad Chinese around , there are also respectable ones that one has to know if one is open

I have been open to western cultures , be nice to continue to meet many who embrace Chinese culture as interesting and good to know

Quite right, some people tend to ignore the fact they are not from the indigenous population.

My wife is Thai but her grandfather was Chinese and the family follows the traditions of both countries. Her niece is at Sun Yat Sen university.

Race again.

It is rare for a fahlang to become a 100% Thai. It is common so many foreigners are incapable to appreciate being American. (Some certain self-exiled expat Americans included.)

Still, there remains among so many people race, race, race. They remain still in the deep dark ugly past. There is culture without race yet too many miss the fact.

To say again -- race and religion. Nothing's worse than either or both.

Nothing in my post about race, just your guilty conscience over the greatest racial abuse in history.

sandyf · November 24, 2015

"Transition" , not in the vocabulary of some.

"Over the last 10 to 15 years China has continued to modernize along with the flow of economic growth. At one point, China was building the equivalent of three Chicago's every year. The construction of these ghost cities, which have remained relatively empty, created a worldwide shortage of iron and rubber. Many analysts assume that since these cities have sat empty all this time that it was a clear sign of a real estate bubble in China. But nothing could be further from the truth.

The engineering of the ghost cities were a part of the National New Urbanization Plan which intends to move 100 million people from the rural population into the cities by 2020. The intent is to increase the urban population of China by 60% and create a larger consumer class as the economy shifts away from the exporting model. This will be the largest human migration in the history of the world. The economic strategies and cultural engineering used to accomplish it will be studied for generations to come."

"As the redback appreciates and is added to the SDR as one of the reserve currencies making up the basket, China will be looking at ways of expanding existing services and creating new ones. These services consist of financial services (think Eurozone bailout and McDonald's bonds), communications, transportation into international markets and regions, promoting tourism, and the exporting of media and traditional Chinese values and heritage.

Chinese economic strategists have a set a target of reaching $1 trillion of Trade Services by 2020, the same year in which the urbanization plan is set to include 60% of the population. This is a dramatic shift away from the policy of exporting goods which carried the growth of the Chinese economy for decades."

http://philosophyofmetrics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/The-Economic-Transition-Papers-Re-Engineering-the-Dollar.pdf

sandyf · November 24, 2015

Anyone who wants the history of the past 3000 years in China or anywhere else can have it.

Just don't try to take the modern world back there with you. CCP are revanchist and irredentist.

The modern world is moving forward. Even the Chinese people don't like that their government, its politics, economics, financial system, society, is based on a mid-19th century German eccentric Jewish European guy and his rich benefactor in England. It's yet another boneheaded thing that keeps China in the losers bracket of history right up to the present.

Many Chinese don't like the Lenin part of it either. As for Mao, even the CCP teaches in all the schools and at party meetings Mao was 70% right. We know that's 100% wrong....and then some. Deng doesn't look so good any more either. That's true on the mainland, but Deng never looked good in Hong Kong. All of 'em are viewed from Taiwan as another bunch in a long line of loser autocrats.

The Chinese are pragmatic about governments and politics ...like I say for fiery speeches on government join in a closed family group and their discussions there rival any American stuff on TV ...they just don't like to go public about their views

Chinese don't like their government but unlike the west as long as it serves a purpose and doesn't do too much damage to their personal lives most Chinese an empathetic to just let it function

Ranting on TV and wanting a voice etc is very western and may not be right / wrong ...just doesn't appeal to the Chinese to do that ...so stop painting the Chinese like they are oppressed or something ...they have a way to vent their views ...it's in a private forum

I am proud of my heritage and the 5000 year history ...when some posters here can read calligraphy and Chinese poems I believe they are in a position to critic the nature of it until then ...it's hot air keyboard hubris

I know it's not the easiest language to learn unlike English ...sorry

. For a young country, the United States has a lot of history. Older than its years, as people say.

Another rapid transition in the face of social pressure. I am not that old and remember some of this notable history, Martin Luther King, Senator McCarthy, Vietnam, Cambodia, LBJ, Watergate, and not to mention the middle east.

A lot to be said for the old sayings, "People in glass houses........."

ExpatOilWorker · November 24, 2015

Anyone who wants the history of the past 3000 years in China or anywhere else can have it.

Just don't try to take the modern world back there with you. CCP are revanchist and irredentist.

The modern world is moving forward. Even the Chinese people don't like that their government, its politics, economics, financial system, society, is based on a mid-19th century German eccentric Jewish European guy and his rich benefactor in England. It's yet another boneheaded thing that keeps China in the losers bracket of history right up to the present.

Many Chinese don't like the Lenin part of it either. As for Mao, even the CCP teaches in all the schools and at party meetings Mao was 70% right. We know that's 100% wrong....and then some. Deng doesn't look so good any more either. That's true on the mainland, but Deng never looked good in Hong Kong. All of 'em are viewed from Taiwan as another bunch in a long line of loser autocrats.

The Chinese are pragmatic about governments and politics ...like I say for fiery speeches on government join in a closed family group and their discussions there rival any American stuff on TV ...they just don't like to go public about their views

Chinese don't like their government but unlike the west as long as it serves a purpose and doesn't do too much damage to their personal lives most Chinese an empathetic to just let it function

Ranting on TV and wanting a voice etc is very western and may not be right / wrong ...just doesn't appeal to the Chinese to do that ...so stop painting the Chinese like they are oppressed or something ...they have a way to vent their views ...it's in a private forum

I am proud of my heritage and the 5000 year history ...when some posters here can read calligraphy and Chinese poems I believe they are in a position to critic the nature of it until then ...it's hot air keyboard hubris

I know it's not the easiest language to learn unlike English ...sorry

. For a young country, the United States has a lot of history. Older than its years, as people say.

Another rapid transition in the face of social pressure. I am not that old and remember some of this notable history, Martin Luther King, Senator McCarthy, Vietnam, Cambodia, LBJ, Watergate, and not to mention the middle east.
A lot to be said for the old sayings, "People in glass houses........."

People in glass houses.........have a better view of the World?

Publicus · November 24, 2015

"Transition" , not in the vocabulary of some.

"Over the last 10 to 15 years China has continued to modernize along with the flow of economic growth. At one point, China was building the equivalent of three Chicago's every year. The construction of these ghost cities, which have remained relatively empty, created a worldwide shortage of iron and rubber. Many analysts assume that since these cities have sat empty all this time that it was a clear sign of a real estate bubble in China. But nothing could be further from the truth.

The engineering of the ghost cities were a part of the National New Urbanization Plan which intends to move 100 million people from the rural population into the cities by 2020. The intent is to increase the urban population of China by 60% and create a larger consumer class as the economy shifts away from the exporting model. This will be the largest human migration in the history of the world. The economic strategies and cultural engineering used to accomplish it will be studied for generations to come."

"As the redback appreciates and is added to the SDR as one of the reserve currencies making up the basket, China will be looking at ways of expanding existing services and creating new ones. These services consist of financial services (think Eurozone bailout and McDonald's bonds), communications, transportation into international markets and regions, promoting tourism, and the exporting of media and traditional Chinese values and heritage.

Chinese economic strategists have a set a target of reaching $1 trillion of Trade Services by 2020, the same year in which the urbanization plan is set to include 60% of the population. This is a dramatic shift away from the policy of exporting goods which carried the growth of the Chinese economy for decades."

http://philosophyofmetrics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/The-Economic-Transition-Papers-Re-Engineering-the-Dollar.pdf

People who sit around to read the CCP five-year plans and schemes make their own decisions to do that and they get their own reward from such glitter.

Here is from reality tv in respect of the 64 million vacant units in the CCP's ghost cities.

It’s after 2pm and in the new city of Dongguan shop owner Tian Yu Gao is yet to serve a single customer.It’s a bit boring”, he sighs. His open shop is a rare sight in the Great Mall: once heralded by the New York Times as proof of China’s astonishing consumer culture. Today it is an eerie vista of emptiness. “It can’t stay this way”, insists Tulloch”. When the bubble bursts, it will impoverish vast numbers of people”.

http://www.journeyman.tv/?lid=61700

The economy in its constant downward decline is prohibiting necessary reform of the hukou registration system. Initiated by Mao, hukou is a booklet-card every CCP Chinese gets based on place of birth. Hukou determines geographic and thus socio-economic mobility. The 260m migrants from countryside to city present expenses the local urban governments cannot bear. Migrants anyway don't get the normal and usual municipal services because their hukou card status and classification prevents and prohibits it. The 260m hukou-bound CCP Chinese are in effect illegal migrants. They live on the margins of the newly developing cities.

Genuine and substantive change will only come if hukou reform is pursued as part of a comprehensive and coherent urbanization strategy that addresses rather than ignores many of the related but highly contentious issues. It seems whether this will happen is currently the subject of fierce debate inside the Communist Party.

http://thediplomat.com/2013/10/china-urbanization-and-hukou-reform/?allpages=yes

To populate the ghost cities, the local and provincial governments would need to assume the new costs of the new residents for schools, hospitals, water supply, public safety and all the rest of it. Yet the CCP China localities, counties, provinces are broke and are in a humongous amount of debt. Their own investments in property and housing have gone bust.

Urbanisation and inclusion of the countryside in the general economic development, to include dealing with the counterproductive hukou system, are together one of the more complex packages concerning the CCP China. It is a challenging one for foreign devils to not only understand, but to comprehend. So for the purposes of making a post, the central take-away point is that the CCP economy is failing. It is on the downward skids with only a brick wall at the end of the sliding, crumbling, collapses, crashes.

The housing bubble started bursting last year so even the populated cities are taking gas on housing prices. Xi and PM Li originate from the geographic margins of the hukou system and want to reform it. They still cannot accomplish that however due primarily to fiscal and ideological issues. This is apart from numerous related outstanding issues not to mention the constantly collapsing economy.

LawrenceChee · November 24, 2015

"Transition" , not in the vocabulary of some.

"Over the last 10 to 15 years China has continued to modernize along with the flow of economic growth. At one point, China was building the equivalent of three Chicago's every year. The construction of these ghost cities, which have remained relatively empty, created a worldwide shortage of iron and rubber. Many analysts assume that since these cities have sat empty all this time that it was a clear sign of a real estate bubble in China. But nothing could be further from the truth.

The engineering of the ghost cities were a part of the National New Urbanization Plan which intends to move 100 million people from the rural population into the cities by 2020. The intent is to increase the urban population of China by 60% and create a larger consumer class as the economy shifts away from the exporting model. This will be the largest human migration in the history of the world. The economic strategies and cultural engineering used to accomplish it will be studied for generations to come."

"As the redback appreciates and is added to the SDR as one of the reserve currencies making up the basket, China will be looking at ways of expanding existing services and creating new ones. These services consist of financial services (think Eurozone bailout and McDonald's bonds), communications, transportation into international markets and regions, promoting tourism, and the exporting of media and traditional Chinese values and heritage.

Chinese economic strategists have a set a target of reaching $1 trillion of Trade Services by 2020, the same year in which the urbanization plan is set to include 60% of the population. This is a dramatic shift away from the policy of exporting goods which carried the growth of the Chinese economy for decades."

http://philosophyofmetrics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/The-Economic-Transition-Papers-Re-Engineering-the-Dollar.pdf

People who sit around to read the CCP five-year plans and schemes make their own decisions to do that and they get their own reward from such glitter.

Here is from reality tv in respect of the 64 million vacant units in the CCP's ghost cities.

It’s after 2pm and in the new city of Dongguan shop owner Tian Yu Gao is yet to serve a single customer.It’s a bit boring”, he sighs. His open shop is a rare sight in the Great Mall: once heralded by the New York Times as proof of China’s astonishing consumer culture. Today it is an eerie vista of emptiness. “It can’t stay this way”, insists Tulloch”. When the bubble bursts, it will impoverish vast numbers of people”.

http://www.journeyman.tv/?lid=61700

The economy in its constant downward decline is prohibiting necessary reform of the hukou registration system. Initiated by Mao, hukou is a booklet-card every CCP Chinese gets based on place of birth. Hukou determines geographic and thus socio-economic mobility. The 260m migrants from countryside to city present expenses the local urban governments cannot bear. Migrants anyway don't get the normal and usual municipal services because their hukou card status and classification prevents and prohibits it. The 260m hukou-bound CCP Chinese are in effect illegal migrants. They live on the margins of the newly developing cities.

Genuine and substantive change will only come if hukou reform is pursued as part of a comprehensive and coherent urbanization strategy that addresses rather than ignores many of the related but highly contentious issues. It seems whether this will happen is currently the subject of fierce debate inside the Communist Party.

http://thediplomat.com/2013/10/china-urbanization-and-hukou-reform/?allpages=yes

To populate the ghost cities, the local and provincial governments would need to assume the new costs of the new residents for schools, hospitals, water supply, public safety and all the rest of it. Yet the CCP China localities, counties, provinces are broke and are in a humongous amount of debt. Their own investments in property and housing have gone bust.

Urbanisation and inclusion of the countryside in the general economic development, to include dealing with the counterproductive hukou system, are together one of the more complex packages concerning the CCP China. It is a challenging one for foreign devils to not only understand, but to comprehend. So for the purposes of making a post, the central take-away point is that the CCP economy is failing. It is on the downward skids with only a brick wall at the end of the sliding, crumbling, collapses, crashes.

The housing bubble started bursting last year so even the populated cities are taking gas on housing prices. Xi and PM Li originate from the geographic margins of the hukou system and want to reform it. They still cannot accomplish that however due primarily to fiscal and ideological issues. This is apart from numerous related outstanding issues not to mention the constantly collapsing economy.

This is the sole reason why you need strong leadership ...the scale of the logistics , the cultural differences between the many dialects and the general mistrust of governments makes being president of China a thankless leadership job

When you make decisions for 1.5 billion people and try to make a difference , you need to be firm and not play TV politics and sprout rubbish ...any day I would pick President Xi over some potential idiot like Trump

If his ideas gets him elected , it's the epitome of electoral stupidity glazed over TV presentations and slick marketing

The Chinese government have no such luxury ...to fail is to create not only a poor China but also impacting the rest of the world

Publicus · November 24, 2015

"Transition" , not in the vocabulary of some.

"Over the last 10 to 15 years China has continued to modernize along with the flow of economic growth. At one point, China was building the equivalent of three Chicago's every year. The construction of these ghost cities, which have remained relatively empty, created a worldwide shortage of iron and rubber. Many analysts assume that since these cities have sat empty all this time that it was a clear sign of a real estate bubble in China. But nothing could be further from the truth.

The engineering of the ghost cities were a part of the National New Urbanization Plan which intends to move 100 million people from the rural population into the cities by 2020. The intent is to increase the urban population of China by 60% and create a larger consumer class as the economy shifts away from the exporting model. This will be the largest human migration in the history of the world. The economic strategies and cultural engineering used to accomplish it will be studied for generations to come."

"As the redback appreciates and is added to the SDR as one of the reserve currencies making up the basket, China will be looking at ways of expanding existing services and creating new ones. These services consist of financial services (think Eurozone bailout and McDonald's bonds), communications, transportation into international markets and regions, promoting tourism, and the exporting of media and traditional Chinese values and heritage.

Chinese economic strategists have a set a target of reaching $1 trillion of Trade Services by 2020, the same year in which the urbanization plan is set to include 60% of the population. This is a dramatic shift away from the policy of exporting goods which carried the growth of the Chinese economy for decades."

http://philosophyofmetrics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/The-Economic-Transition-Papers-Re-Engineering-the-Dollar.pdf

People who sit around to read the CCP five-year plans and schemes make their own decisions to do that and they get their own reward from such glitter.

Here is from reality tv in respect of the 64 million vacant units in the CCP's ghost cities.

It’s after 2pm and in the new city of Dongguan shop owner Tian Yu Gao is yet to serve a single customer.It’s a bit boring”, he sighs. His open shop is a rare sight in the Great Mall: once heralded by the New York Times as proof of China’s astonishing consumer culture. Today it is an eerie vista of emptiness. “It can’t stay this way”, insists Tulloch”. When the bubble bursts, it will impoverish vast numbers of people”.

http://www.journeyman.tv/?lid=61700

The economy in its constant downward decline is prohibiting necessary reform of the hukou registration system. Initiated by Mao, hukou is a booklet-card every CCP Chinese gets based on place of birth. Hukou determines geographic and thus socio-economic mobility. The 260m migrants from countryside to city present expenses the local urban governments cannot bear. Migrants anyway don't get the normal and usual municipal services because their hukou card status and classification prevents and prohibits it. The 260m hukou-bound CCP Chinese are in effect illegal migrants. They live on the margins of the newly developing cities.

Genuine and substantive change will only come if hukou reform is pursued as part of a comprehensive and coherent urbanization strategy that addresses rather than ignores many of the related but highly contentious issues. It seems whether this will happen is currently the subject of fierce debate inside the Communist Party.

http://thediplomat.com/2013/10/china-urbanization-and-hukou-reform/?allpages=yes

To populate the ghost cities, the local and provincial governments would need to assume the new costs of the new residents for schools, hospitals, water supply, public safety and all the rest of it. Yet the CCP China localities, counties, provinces are broke and are in a humongous amount of debt. Their own investments in property and housing have gone bust.

Urbanisation and inclusion of the countryside in the general economic development, to include dealing with the counterproductive hukou system, are together one of the more complex packages concerning the CCP China. It is a challenging one for foreign devils to not only understand, but to comprehend. So for the purposes of making a post, the central take-away point is that the CCP economy is failing. It is on the downward skids with only a brick wall at the end of the sliding, crumbling, collapses, crashes.

The housing bubble started bursting last year so even the populated cities are taking gas on housing prices. Xi and PM Li originate from the geographic margins of the hukou system and want to reform it. They still cannot accomplish that however due primarily to fiscal and ideological issues. This is apart from numerous related outstanding issues not to mention the constantly collapsing economy.

This is the sole reason why you need strong leadership ...the scale of the logistics , the cultural differences between the many dialects and the general mistrust of governments makes being president of China a thankless leadership job

When you make decisions for 1.5 billion people and try to make a difference , you need to be firm and not play TV politics and sprout rubbish ...any day I would pick President Xi over some potential idiot like Trump

If his ideas gets him elected , it's the epitome of electoral stupidity glazed over TV presentations and slick marketing

The Chinese government have no such luxury ...to fail is to create not only a poor China but also impacting the rest of the world

China's momentous accomplishments came at the beginning, when the place was small in every respect. After that, and starting with the (insane) first emperor Qin (Chin as a Chinese well knows), the place has gone on to have become too humongously and super enormously huge. China is ungovernable even by dictatorship.

CCP teaches all day every day only it can govern China. Wrong. No party can govern China. Not as a one party state or as a genuinely multiparty state, to include as a two party state. China for 2000 years expanded in territory and population. But the increased population meant it could live only at a subsistence level. Which brings us to the present 30-year boom as it suddenly but foreseeably goes bust.

The old Chinese saying applies more than ever previously: "The mountains are high and the emperor is far away."

Regions far flung from the ballentine of Dalian, Tienjin-Beijing, Shanghai are growing wealthier and more prosperous. The outlying regions are more independent than ever previously, financially and in economics especially.

Hong Kong, ShenZhen, GuangZhou are metropolitan centers that dominate the Pearl River basin and extended valley in the distant South, far from Beijing. They are the original Canton. The fact makes them vastly different culturally than, to name one instance in China, the interior inhabitants of the Yellow River. The Yellow River basin/valley is far to the north as it makes a broad swathe from the west to the Yellow Sea. The Cantonese language is radically different from the Mongol based Mandarin language, BeiJingHua/PuTongHua.

ChongQing is a huge metropolis that dominates the southwest. ChengJu dominates the central west. Each have their own languages, cultures, food etc. The air is radically different out in Guangxi than it is in Beijing....the difference is a day and night difference in favor of Guangxi in the south and headed northwest.

Likewise the Yangtze River basin and valley extends broadly to the north of the Pearl and has its own languages, cultures, food etc.

So there are at least six new republics to eventually take shape and form up from the current PRC.

Tibet and Xinjiang are two obvious ones.

For China proper, it's going in that direction anyway due to several factors. One is the history of regionalism, a warlord independence, separate and distinct native language(s) and culture in each of the regions and more. The more recent and powerful driving factor is the new wealth. With the new wealth comes new and more power. Why keep paying all their money to Beijing they ask, openly. Why submit to the Boyz who are far in the distance beyond our own local mountains (of money also).

Some republics such as the Pearl River Basin nestled between Hong Kong and Taiwan would be democratic ones. One or two others not so. Most would not have the same as the CCP China currently has and has had since 1949 when Mao took control of the whole shebang.

The existing PRC is so big it must necessarily fail. In every respect. It is unavoidable. CCP is already failing In economics, finance, politics, government among other aspects. In terms of arts, culture, entertainment, the PRC is a desert wasteland. It's time China started to become small again. It's the only way. Which is why it is moving in that direction already.

There are however and as expected CCP Chinese who can't deal with the thought nevermind the reality of it. Those CCP Chinese need to remember another old saying, that he who laughs last laughs best.

LawrenceChee · November 24, 2015

"Transition" , not in the vocabulary of some.

"Over the last 10 to 15 years China has continued to modernize along with the flow of economic growth. At one point, China was building the equivalent of three Chicago's every year. The construction of these ghost cities, which have remained relatively empty, created a worldwide shortage of iron and rubber. Many analysts assume that since these cities have sat empty all this time that it was a clear sign of a real estate bubble in China. But nothing could be further from the truth.

The engineering of the ghost cities were a part of the National New Urbanization Plan which intends to move 100 million people from the rural population into the cities by 2020. The intent is to increase the urban population of China by 60% and create a larger consumer class as the economy shifts away from the exporting model. This will be the largest human migration in the history of the world. The economic strategies and cultural engineering used to accomplish it will be studied for generations to come."

"As the redback appreciates and is added to the SDR as one of the reserve currencies making up the basket, China will be looking at ways of expanding existing services and creating new ones. These services consist of financial services (think Eurozone bailout and McDonald's bonds), communications, transportation into international markets and regions, promoting tourism, and the exporting of media and traditional Chinese values and heritage.

Chinese economic strategists have a set a target of reaching $1 trillion of Trade Services by 2020, the same year in which the urbanization plan is set to include 60% of the population. This is a dramatic shift away from the policy of exporting goods which carried the growth of the Chinese economy for decades."

http://philosophyofmetrics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/The-Economic-Transition-Papers-Re-Engineering-the-Dollar.pdf

People who sit around to read the CCP five-year plans and schemes make their own decisions to do that and they get their own reward from such glitter.

Here is from reality tv in respect of the 64 million vacant units in the CCP's ghost cities.

It’s after 2pm and in the new city of Dongguan shop owner Tian Yu Gao is yet to serve a single customer.It’s a bit boring”, he sighs. His open shop is a rare sight in the Great Mall: once heralded by the New York Times as proof of China’s astonishing consumer culture. Today it is an eerie vista of emptiness. “It can’t stay this way”, insists Tulloch”. When the bubble bursts, it will impoverish vast numbers of people”.

http://www.journeyman.tv/?lid=61700

The economy in its constant downward decline is prohibiting necessary reform of the hukou registration system. Initiated by Mao, hukou is a booklet-card every CCP Chinese gets based on place of birth. Hukou determines geographic and thus socio-economic mobility. The 260m migrants from countryside to city present expenses the local urban governments cannot bear. Migrants anyway don't get the normal and usual municipal services because their hukou card status and classification prevents and prohibits it. The 260m hukou-bound CCP Chinese are in effect illegal migrants. They live on the margins of the newly developing cities.

Genuine and substantive change will only come if hukou reform is pursued as part of a comprehensive and coherent urbanization strategy that addresses rather than ignores many of the related but highly contentious issues. It seems whether this will happen is currently the subject of fierce debate inside the Communist Party.

http://thediplomat.com/2013/10/china-urbanization-and-hukou-reform/?allpages=yes

To populate the ghost cities, the local and provincial governments would need to assume the new costs of the new residents for schools, hospitals, water supply, public safety and all the rest of it. Yet the CCP China localities, counties, provinces are broke and are in a humongous amount of debt. Their own investments in property and housing have gone bust.

Urbanisation and inclusion of the countryside in the general economic development, to include dealing with the counterproductive hukou system, are together one of the more complex packages concerning the CCP China. It is a challenging one for foreign devils to not only understand, but to comprehend. So for the purposes of making a post, the central take-away point is that the CCP economy is failing. It is on the downward skids with only a brick wall at the end of the sliding, crumbling, collapses, crashes.

The housing bubble started bursting last year so even the populated cities are taking gas on housing prices. Xi and PM Li originate from the geographic margins of the hukou system and want to reform it. They still cannot accomplish that however due primarily to fiscal and ideological issues. This is apart from numerous related outstanding issues not to mention the constantly collapsing economy.

This is the sole reason why you need strong leadership ...the scale of the logistics , the cultural differences between the many dialects and the general mistrust of governments makes being president of China a thankless leadership job
When you make decisions for 1.5 billion people and try to make a difference , you need to be firm and not play TV politics and sprout rubbish ...any day I would pick President Xi over some potential idiot like Trump

If his ideas gets him elected , it's the epitome of electoral stupidity glazed over TV presentations and slick marketing

The Chinese government have no such luxury ...to fail is to create not only a poor China but also impacting the rest of the world

China's momentous accomplishments came at the beginning, when the place was small in every respect. After that, and starting with the (insane) first emperor Qin (Chin as a Chinese well knows), the place has gone on to have become too humongously and super enormously huge. China is ungovernable even by dictatorship.

CCP teaches all day every day only it can govern China. Wrong. No party can govern China. Not as a one party state or as a genuinely multiparty state, to include as a two party state. China for 2000 years expanded in territory and population. But the increased population meant it could live only at a subsistence level. Which brings us to the present 30-year boom as it suddenly but foreseeably goes bust.

The old Chinese saying applies more than ever previously: "The mountains are high and the emperor is far away."

Regions far flung from the ballentine of Dalian, Tienjin-Beijing, Shanghai are growing wealthier and more prosperous. The outlying regions are more independent than ever previously, financially and in economics especially.

Hong Kong, ShenZhen, GuangZhou are metropolitan centers that dominate the Pearl River basin and extended valley in the distant South, far from Beijing. They are the original Canton. The fact makes them vastly different culturally than, to name one instance in China, the interior inhabitants of the Yellow River. The Yellow River basin/valley is far to the north as it makes a broad swathe from the west to the Yellow Sea. The Cantonese language is radically different from the Mongol based Mandarin language, BeiJingHua/PuTongHua.

ChongQing is a huge metropolis that dominates the southwest. ChengJu dominates the central west. Each have their own languages, cultures, food etc. The air is radically different out in Guangxi than it is in Beijing....the difference is a day and night difference in favor of Guangxi in the south and headed northwest.

Likewise the Yangtze River basin and valley extends broadly to the north of the Pearl and has its own languages, cultures, food etc.

So there are at least six new republics to eventually take shape and form up from the current PRC.

Tibet and Xinjiang are two obvious ones.

For China proper, it's going in that direction anyway due to several factors. One is the history of regionalism, a warlord independence, separate and distinct native language(s) and culture in each of the regions and more. The more recent and powerful driving factor is the new wealth. With the new wealth comes new and more power. Why keep paying all their money to Beijing they ask, openly. Why submit to the Boyz who are far in the distance beyond our own local mountains (of money also).

Some republics such as the Pearl River Basin nestled between Hong Kong and Taiwan would be democratic ones. One or two others not so. Most would not have the same as the CCP China currently has and has had since 1949 when Mao took control of the whole shebang.

The existing PRC is so big it must necessarily fail. In every respect. It is unavoidable. CCP is already failing In economics, finance, politics, government among other aspects. In terms of arts, culture, entertainment, the PRC is a desert wasteland. It's time China started to become small again. It's the only way. Which is why it is moving in that direction already.

There are however and as expected CCP Chinese who can't deal with the thought nevermind the reality of it. Those CCP Chinese need to remember another old saying, that he who laughs last laughs best.

So the west is prepared to deal with 6-7 different China's and integrate that into the existing immigration structures , visas, UN membership and trade deals ? Wishful thinking indeed for those armchair sitters who wish China to disintegrate the way USSR did ...won't happen to China

I'm Chinese and I'm Cantonese by heritage and I don't want that ....I'm happy the way it is in China right now with more environmental protection and a slower sustained economic growth

Publicus · November 24, 2015

The point of view expressed in the post exists and is held by others in mainland China and in Ye Olde Canton. It also exists in Hong Kong and in Taiwan. In HKG and Taiwan your point of view is a definite minority. On the mainland regionalism remains strong as does loyalty to China as the PRC presently exists, and as the CCP plans to extend itself regionally and globally.

However, the major point deserves reiteration. China is too big to succeed. It cannot succeed even under the rule of dictators. This is not the view or analysis of one person. The analysis and belief permeates global elites of government, economics, finance, politics, foreign militaries of the West and elsewhere.

China is not Europe where the continent struggles to unify in some ways, shape, form. China is the opposite. It is too big to succeed. China is so big it already is failing as it must fail. China needs to subdivide into sovereign republics, not to try try try to hold together by artificial or enforced means.

The CCP Dictators did after Tianamen in 1989 form the new People's Armed Police (PLA told Deng they'd never do that again for any reason). PAP are 850,000 paramilitary hard core CCP organised in 48 divisions and are stationed in each province. PAP are designed to be the last line of defense against the CCP going the way of the USSR.

The current CCP economic collapsing is sudden to manifest but it has begun. There's no mistaking it. CCP does itself believe if it voluntarily relinquished power in a national rebellion, its more democratic successor will fail in a short order. After which, CCP believes, the people would call on it to return to restore order and stability.

There's really no knowing what will come out of the roller coaster economy of the CCP Boyz now that the rapid downward plunge has begun. Six new republics would be the ideal of peaceful and rational transformation. Such a transformation may or may not ever happen. What we can be sure of is that it's only going to get ever more messy from this point forward. That is until it's over, whenever and however that may turn out to be.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Publicus

sandyf · November 25, 2015

"Chinese are expected to spend $116.8 billion on luxury goods this year, accounting for 46% of the world’s total, said the Fortune Character Institute."

Chinese spend a lot on luxury goods, just not in China

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