China cuts interest rates again to spur economic growth

[Publicus]

The Fed will announce its rate decision at 1 am Thailand time which is a few hours from now.

The CCP Boyz are strongly against an increase of the rate, which would be the first increase since 2008. This demand comes from the Beijing which has set off a currency war throughout this region and whose economy went negative during the first quarter and looks like 2015 GDP 'growth' of between zero to 3% at best. Exports are collapsing, manufacturing has been negative most of the year, stock markets have collapsed, there's a housing/property bubble and the list gets longer than a baby's arm.

I think the Fed won't increase its rate this time but that and 25 bucks can get me into Starbucks in Manhattan. There's a good case for an increase but the Fed is super cautious about such things. To the Fed no case is strong enough. Inflation is too low and employment data isn't comprehensive enough. The Fed is divided along the lines of 60-40 which for the Fed is not clear or strong enough to move forward. The Fed is an 80-20 institution, so some Fed hawks would have to change sides for an increase to be adopted, which could happen but then Starbucks might give me a free espresso too.

Generally speaking, global central and private bankers expect an increase, economists expect no increase, global corporations strongly want an increase, US markets don't really care, emerging markets are praying the Fed does nothing while the Boyz are instead demanding no increase. No increase won't help the Boyz, it's just that an increase will change their headaches into migraines.

Suggestions from outside the Fed propound an increase ranging from 12.5 basis points to 50 basis points. There's a strong advocacy outside the Fed for a "one and done" increase of 50 bp to let the economy deal with it throughout next year. That would be okay except next year is an election year and the Fed is careful not to have people accusing it of tilting the election either way. A one and done would be unprecedented but it can't be ruled out.

What nobody wants is the last time the Fed did a major rate increase in 1994, when it increased their rate each month for several months, which screwed up the economy. So if there might be an increase, it would be 25 bp now and watch the economy throughout next year, or 50 points now then do nothing next year unless something drastic occurs they don't like.

What the CCP Boyz absolutely do not understand (besides a modern economy) is that the Fed acts in the interests of the United States. The Boyz continue to believe the Fed will act in their interest because the two interests would be the same. They are not the same however.

Hilsenrath already hinted that there won't be a rate rise. (i predicted that Hilsenrath would be the next Fed mouthpiece in the US stocks thread)

Don't know the guy.

He "hinted" and I called it based on my own resources exclusive of him who I don't read. I'm no soothsayer as I've been wrong before, but I made my own call on this which turned out to be accurate.

Who cares what Hilsenrath at the WSJ says.

Even moreso, who cares what the Mad Max heavy metal headbangers against the USA say individually from Hilsenrath and separately, apart from the other. Just don't try to connect yourselves to him either cause he's not an extremist crackpot who wants the CCP Boyz and Putin to control the global economy after destroying the economy of the United States.

[sandyf]

Nobody is trying to destroy the US economy or the USD, not saying they wouldn't like to, just a matter of putting things into perspective. The US was never elected, it became a self appointed dictator in global finance, and who wants a dictator.

The bully boy tactics have initiated changes in the financial world that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944.

[Publicus]

The Fed will announce its rate decision at 1 am Thailand time which is a few hours from now.

The CCP Boyz are strongly against an increase of the rate, which would be the first increase since 2008. This demand comes from the Beijing which has set off a currency war throughout this region and whose economy went negative during the first quarter and looks like 2015 GDP 'growth' of between zero to 3% at best. Exports are collapsing, manufacturing has been negative most of the year, stock markets have collapsed, there's a housing/property bubble and the list gets longer than a baby's arm.

I think the Fed won't increase its rate this time but that and 25 bucks can get me into Starbucks in Manhattan. There's a good case for an increase but the Fed is super cautious about such things. To the Fed no case is strong enough. Inflation is too low and employment data isn't comprehensive enough. The Fed is divided along the lines of 60-40 which for the Fed is not clear or strong enough to move forward. The Fed is an 80-20 institution, so some Fed hawks would have to change sides for an increase to be adopted, which could happen but then Starbucks might give me a free espresso too.

Generally speaking, global central and private bankers expect an increase, economists expect no increase, global corporations strongly want an increase, US markets don't really care, emerging markets are praying the Fed does nothing while the Boyz are instead demanding no increase. No increase won't help the Boyz, it's just that an increase will change their headaches into migraines.

Suggestions from outside the Fed propound an increase ranging from 12.5 basis points to 50 basis points. There's a strong advocacy outside the Fed for a "one and done" increase of 50 bp to let the economy deal with it throughout next year. That would be okay except next year is an election year and the Fed is careful not to have people accusing it of tilting the election either way. A one and done would be unprecedented but it can't be ruled out.

What nobody wants is the last time the Fed did a major rate increase in 1994, when it increased their rate each month for several months, which screwed up the economy. So if there might be an increase, it would be 25 bp now and watch the economy throughout next year, or 50 points now then do nothing next year unless something drastic occurs they don't like.

What the CCP Boyz absolutely do not understand (besides a modern economy) is that the Fed acts in the interests of the United States. The Boyz continue to believe the Fed will act in their interest because the two interests would be the same. They are not the same however.

Hilsenrath already hinted that there won't be a rate rise. (i predicted that Hilsenrath would be the next Fed mouthpiece in the US stocks thread)

Don't know the guy.

He "hinted" and I called it based on my own resources exclusive of him who I don't read. I'm no soothsayer as I've been wrong before, but I made my own call on this which turned out to be accurate.

Who cares what Hilsenrath at the WSJ says.

Even moreso, who cares what the Mad Max heavy metal headbangers against the USA say individually from Hilsenrath and separately, apart from the other. Just don't try to connect yourselves to him either cause he's not an extremist crackpot who wants the CCP Boyz and Putin to control the global economy after destroying the economy of the United States.

Your call on post # 193: One direct effect expected when the Fed raises rates is that the stumbling and falling emerging economies will further submerge. The Fed can raise its rate next week

What I said on post #199

China is selling and you are believing the BS that the Fed will start selling this month.

Submerging emerging economies excluding the CCP are expected by global markets to have to sell off $1.5 Trillion of their forex reserves between now and the end of next year, 2016, in order to try to support their dying quail currencies, collapsing exports, failing command and corrupt economies.

Check back here the end of next year to see that the US economy and financial system are still here, because they will be.

This is true given global markets expect that the way things in the CCP China are going, the CCP Boyz will have to sell off $2 Trillion of their reserves during the same period. Check back here the end of next year to see if the US economy is still here because it will be and in a more than respectable shape and condition.

Western central banks, private banks, institutional investors will buy the reserve reversals using euros, yen, pounds then convert to USD. Which will bring us back to USD Square One which is where I'll be waiting to throw welcome cold water on the overheated and exhausted bedraggled advocates of dictatorship when they come staggering in.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Publicus

[sandyf]

The only other governments of the world that want to deal in this wobbling yuan are also personal dictatorships with their own personal currencies and personal economies.

More than 60 global central banks and sovereign wealth funds have invested in yuan-denominated assets, with combined holdings of around $70 billion to $120 billion, Standard Chartered Plc estimated in a report published in May.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-10/china-to-allow-foreign-central-banks-in-onshore-currency-market

In the words of Frank Carson "It's the way I tell 'em."

[Publicus]

The only other governments of the world that want to deal in this wobbling yuan are also personal dictatorships with their own personal currencies and personal economies.

More than 60 global central banks and sovereign wealth funds have invested in yuan-denominated assets, with combined holdings of around $70 billion to $120 billion, Standard Chartered Plc estimated in a report published in May.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-10/china-to-allow-foreign-central-banks-in-onshore-currency-market

In the words of Frank Carson "It's the way I tell 'em."

Good ol' Frank, yes, whoever he may be.

The 60 global central banks and sovereign wealth funds are now stuck with a tanking dog of a currency and a steadily failing economy in the CCP China.

The sums in the post are small change anyway. The yuan comprises 2.3 percent of global reserves and 1.7 percent of global trade. And to think, going into the cold hard summer of this year this was the high point of the CCP's 30 years of developing their personal pocket money project, the yuan.

[sandyf]

The only other governments of the world that want to deal in this wobbling yuan are also personal dictatorships with their own personal currencies and personal economies.

More than 60 global central banks and sovereign wealth funds have invested in yuan-denominated assets, with combined holdings of around $70 billion to $120 billion, Standard Chartered Plc estimated in a report published in May.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-10/china-to-allow-foreign-central-banks-in-onshore-currency-market

In the words of Frank Carson "It's the way I tell 'em."

Good ol' Frank, yes, whoever he may be.

The 60 global central banks and sovereign wealth funds are now stuck with a tanking dog of a currency and a steadily failing economy in the CCP China.

So your view is that the 60 global central banks and sovereign wealth funds are all personal dictatorships.

Puts you in the same line of business as Frank.

[Publicus]

The only other governments of the world that want to deal in this wobbling yuan are also personal dictatorships with their own personal currencies and personal economies.

More than 60 global central banks and sovereign wealth funds have invested in yuan-denominated assets, with combined holdings of around $70 billion to $120 billion, Standard Chartered Plc estimated in a report published in May.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-10/china-to-allow-foreign-central-banks-in-onshore-currency-market

In the words of Frank Carson "It's the way I tell 'em."

Good ol' Frank, yes, whoever he may be.

The 60 global central banks and sovereign wealth funds are now stuck with a tanking dog of a currency and a steadily failing economy in the CCP China.

So your view is that the 60 global central banks and sovereign wealth funds are all personal dictatorships.

Puts you in the same line of business as Frank.

Let me restate my sentence here on paper with the emphasis that is obviously needed....

The 60 global central banks and sovereign wealth funds are now stuck with a tanking dog of a currency and a steadily failing economy in the CCP China.

Kindly notice I wrote "now" in my sentence in referring to the people and institutions presented in your post. My original post you quoted had referred only to the proliferation of personal dictatorships of the world such as Robert Mugabe who share mutually glowing relations with the CCP Boyz and who are welcomed in Beijing with big bands, enormous dinners, volumes of cash measured in tonnage.

Governments, central banks and other financial institutions that are now stuck with an unquestionable dog of a currency include minus 5% growth Russia which has currency swap agreements with the CCP Boyz. Russia is but one of a couple of dozen loser countries with currency swaps, grandiose New Silk Road promises and other big bucks development projects such as a new canal in Nicaragua, who had been excited and pleased to believe the CCP Boyz always ridiculous claims they had an actual economy going on, a legit financial system that was taking control of the global economy by and for dictatorships.

So the biggest casualty of 2015 and probably of the decade are the CCP Boyz themselves. Global markets, institutions, governments, investors of all colors and stripes have lost confidence the CCP Boyz are in charge and that the Boyz know what is going on; that the Boyz are in control or can be in control. The past long cold and hard CCP summer has pulled the curtain back on the CCP Boyz throughout the CCP China to reveal them as incompetent with completely wrongheaded ideas, systems, organizations, means, methods.

This is because global markets have suddenly and quickly had to add everything up. The back of the envelope figuring is ugly, very ugly. There are the equity crashes and failed CCP interventions, the sudden shock and awe depreciation fiasco, the housing/property bubble already having burst, five ineffective rate cuts so far this year, collapsing exports, the constantly negative manufacturing growth, Tienjin exploding out from under the Boyz, their bumbling aggression in the South China Sea, the broken Brics and so much more domestically and globally....

[otherstuff1957]

Quite frankly, I wouldn't really worry too much until we start seeing negative interest combined with a cashless society.

Now if I were Danish:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/danish-lenders-take-unprecedented-steps-to-combat-negative-interest-rates-1423576590

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/denmark-going-cashless-emoney/

[ExpatOilWorker]

Quite frankly, I wouldn't really worry too much until we start seeing negative interest combined with a cashless society.

Now if I were Danish:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/danish-lenders-take-unprecedented-steps-to-combat-negative-interest-rates-1423576590

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/denmark-going-cashless-emoney/

Nasty little country.

[Harsh Jones]

Lets see how the Austrian approach works in the real world.. I will use the Asian Financial crisis of 1997.

The causes of the Asian financial crisis are many and disputed. At the time of the mid-1990s, Thailand, Indonesia and South Korea(440 million people, excluding China and Japan) had large current account deficits.cough..cough..US.. anyway,

Many economists believe that the Asian crisis was created by market psychology and policies that distorted incentives within the lender–borrower relationship.(ala China US) The resulting large quantities of credit that became available generated a highly leveraged economic climate, and pushed up asset prices, mainly real estate, to an unsustainable level. These asset prices eventually began to collapse, causing individuals and companies to default on debt obligations.

The resulting panic among lenders led to a large withdrawal of credit from the crisis countries, causing a credit crunch and further bankruptcies. In addition, as foreign investors attempted to withdraw their money, the exchange market was flooded with the currencies of the crisis countries, putting depreciative pressure on their exchange rates. To prevent currency values collapsing, these countries' governments raised domestic interest rates to exceedingly high levels (to help diminish flight of capital by making lending more attractive to investors) and to intervene in the exchange market, buying up any excess domestic currency at the fixed exchange rate with foreign reserves. (Indonesia had foreign exchange reserves of more than $20 billion)

Neither of these policy responses could be sustained for long. Very high interest rates, which can be extremely damaging to an economy that is healthy, wreaked further havoc on economies in an already fragile state, while the central banks were hemorrhaging foreign reserves, of which they had finite amounts. When it became clear that the tide of capital fleeing these countries was not to be stopped, the authorities ceased defending their fixed exchange rates and allowed their currencies to float. The resulting depreciated value of those currencies meant that foreign currency-denominated liabilities grew substantially in domestic currency terms, causing more bankruptcies and further deepening the crisis.The baht reached its lowest point of 56 units to the U.S. dollar in January 1998. The Thai stock market dropped 75%. Finance One, the largest Thai finance company until then, collapsed.^[30]

So Thailand for example went completely broke. They DID NOT print money and try and try and bail ANYTHING out.

The aftermath.

Crisis-struck nations to reduce government spending and deficits,(AUSTRIAN) allowed insolvent banks and financial institutions to fail,(AUSTRIAN) and aggressively raised interest rates.(AUSTRIAN) The reasoning was that these steps would restore confidence in the nations' fiscal solvency, penalize insolvent companies(AUSTRIAN), and protect currency values.

By 2001, Thailand's economy had recovered. The increasing tax revenues allowed the country to balance its budget and repay its debts four years ahead of schedule. The Thai baht continued to appreciate to 29 Baht to the U.S. dollar in October 2010.

^Does this read like a depression to you ????

[ExpatOilWorker]

Lets see how the Austrian approach works in the real world.. I will use the Asian Financial crisis of 1997.

The causes of the Asian financial crisis are many and disputed. At the time of the mid-1990s, Thailand, Indonesia and South Korea(440 million people, excluding China and Japan) had large current account deficits.cough..cough..US.. anyway,

Many economists believe that the Asian crisis was created by market psychology and policies that distorted incentives within the lenderborrower relationship.(ala China US) The resulting large quantities of credit that became available generated a highly leveraged economic climate, and pushed up asset prices, mainly real estate, to an unsustainable level. These asset prices eventually began to collapse, causing individuals and companies to default on debt obligations.

The resulting panic among lenders led to a large withdrawal of credit from the crisis countries, causing a credit crunch and further bankruptcies. In addition, as foreign investors attempted to withdraw their money, the exchange market was flooded with the currencies of the crisis countries, putting depreciative pressure on their exchange rates. To prevent currency values collapsing, these countries' governments raised domestic interest rates to exceedingly high levels (to help diminish flight of capital by making lending more attractive to investors) and to intervene in the exchange market, buying up any excess domestic currency at the fixed exchange rate with foreign reserves. (Indonesia had foreign exchange reserves of more than $20 billion)

Neither of these policy responses could be sustained for long. Very high interest rates, which can be extremely damaging to an economy that is healthy, wreaked further havoc on economies in an already fragile state, while the central banks were hemorrhaging foreign reserves, of which they had finite amounts. When it became clear that the tide of capital fleeing these countries was not to be stopped, the authorities ceased defending their fixed exchange rates and allowed their currencies to float. The resulting depreciated value of those currencies meant that foreign currency-denominated liabilities grew substantially in domestic currency terms, causing more bankruptcies and further deepening the crisis.The baht reached its lowest point of 56 units to the U.S. dollar in January 1998. The Thai stock market dropped 75%. Finance One, the largest Thai finance company until then, collapsed.^%5B30%5D

So Thailand for example went completely broke. They DID NOT print money and try and try and bail ANYTHING out.

The aftermath.

Crisis-struck nations to reduce government spending and deficits,(AUSTRIAN) allowed insolvent banks and financial institutions to fail,(AUSTRIAN) and aggressively raised interest rates.(AUSTRIAN) The reasoning was that these steps would restore confidence in the nations' fiscal solvency, penalize insolvent companies(AUSTRIAN), and protect currency values.

By 2001, Thailand's economy had recovered. The increasing tax revenues allowed the country to balance its budget and repay its debts four years ahead of schedule. The Thai baht continued to appreciate to 29 Baht to the U.S. dollar in October 2010.

^Does this read like a depression to you ????

It does sound like China is in big trouble. They have an over inflated real-estate sector, local governments have borrowed to the sky, capital is fleeing the country, inefficient zombie companies are kept alive, pollution.......

Murica and the dollar on the other hand is doing just fine.

[sandyf]

It does sound like China is in big trouble.

This guy must have got it wrong.

OTTAWA (MNI) - Bank of Canada Governor Stephen Poloz gave a more buoyant outlook on China and its economic slowdown Monday than is held by financial markets, saying he is "quite optimistic" about the country and that its slowdown is "not dramatic."

https://www.marketnews.com/content/bocs-poloz-qa-china-slowdown-not-dramatic

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed. The thread is about China.

Edit: A reply to the removed post has also been deleted.

[thaibeachlovers]

Lol how many times will ppl be fooled. And there is a lot of them on this thread who got duped yet again.

No rate hike just like I knew.You can't unwind a ponzi scheme

edit

Edited September 22, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[Publicus]

 

Well (out of curiosity) went to check out the ex IMF/World Banker site - yet another crony? He promises a 16 hour explanation for "The Global Economic Crisis Explained" and "How The Economy Really Works" - but if you click on the link you'll see it costs a mere $500/year for the banker's explanation of this.

https://www.richardduncaneconomics.com/about-macro-watch/

^^^note that he suggests that wealth creation is fuelled by quantitative easing. What is QE? A Central Bank creating new money electronically to buy financial assets, like government bonds - according to the Bank of England:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetarypolicy/pages/qe/default.aspx

So the career banker Duncan insists that wealth creation is fuelled by creating new money electronically - not developing or improving products and services that solve a problem people face. "Creating new money electronically."

Right up there with Krugman and Hillary - "let's wave a wand and generate new wealth."

It doesn't add up. Wealth is physical products or intangible services - things that provide value to people - and creating wealth is generating those things. How these guys consider "creating new money electronically" as creating wealth escapes me.

 

No one accepts waving a wand as a means to generate wealth whether the wand might be electric or not.

The CCP Boyz have created trillions of dollars worth of physical products, from infrastructure to consumer goods, and they have purchased enormous amounts of capital equipment (from Germany), yet they are broke. Even with the Boyz $3.5 Trillion forex reserve, the Boyz are broke because they have misallocated assets of every kind. The long and the short of it is that how wealth is allocated in or by an economy has more to do with wealth creation than do either wands or simple electronics.

[Publicus]

 

Lets see how the Austrian approach works in the real world.. I will use the Asian Financial crisis of 1997.

The causes of the Asian financial crisis are many and disputed. At the time of the mid-1990s, Thailand, Indonesia and South Korea(440 million people, excluding China and Japan) had large current account deficits.cough..cough..US.. anyway,

Many economists believe that the Asian crisis was created by market psychology and policies that distorted incentives within the lender–borrower relationship.(ala China US) The resulting large quantities of credit that became available generated a highly leveraged economic climate, and pushed up asset prices, mainly real estate, to an unsustainable level. These asset prices eventually began to collapse, causing individuals and companies to default on debt obligations.

The resulting panic among lenders led to a large withdrawal of credit from the crisis countries, causing a credit crunch and further bankruptcies. In addition, as foreign investors attempted to withdraw their money, the exchange market was flooded with the currencies of the crisis countries, putting depreciative pressure on their exchange rates. To prevent currency values collapsing, these countries' governments raised domestic interest rates to exceedingly high levels (to help diminish flight of capital by making lending more attractive to investors) and to intervene in the exchange market, buying up any excess domestic currency at the fixed exchange rate with foreign reserves. (Indonesia had foreign exchange reserves of more than $20 billion)

Neither of these policy responses could be sustained for long. Very high interest rates, which can be extremely damaging to an economy that is healthy, wreaked further havoc on economies in an already fragile state, while the central banks were hemorrhaging foreign reserves, of which they had finite amounts. When it became clear that the tide of capital fleeing these countries was not to be stopped, the authorities ceased defending their fixed exchange rates and allowed their currencies to float. The resulting depreciated value of those currencies meant that foreign currency-denominated liabilities grew substantially in domestic currency terms, causing more bankruptcies and further deepening the crisis.The baht reached its lowest point of 56 units to the U.S. dollar in January 1998. The Thai stock market dropped 75%. Finance One, the largest Thai finance company until then, collapsed.^[30]

So Thailand for example went completely broke. They DID NOT print money and try and try and bail ANYTHING out.

The aftermath.

Crisis-struck nations to reduce government spending and deficits,(AUSTRIAN) allowed insolvent banks and financial institutions to fail,(AUSTRIAN) and aggressively raised interest rates.(AUSTRIAN) The reasoning was that these steps would restore confidence in the nations' fiscal solvency, penalize insolvent companies(AUSTRIAN), and protect currency values.

By 2001, Thailand's economy had recovered. The increasing tax revenues allowed the country to balance its budget and repay its debts four years ahead of schedule. The Thai baht continued to appreciate to 29 Baht to the U.S. dollar in October 2010.

^Does this read like a depression to you ????

Sounds like the IMF formula handed over to the Thai elites in 1997-98 to get them out of their deep dung and which they beefed and whined about from day one of it. My god! It is exactly the IMF formula given to the Thais to guide them out of their morass.

Interesting difference it is, between the Thais and the IMF in their crisis, contrasted to the Greeks and the ECB/EU. Despite all the resistance by the Thais, to include "strategic non-payment," and the like, the Thais instinctively knew they were following the right course and are prospering from it to the present (the current situation not withstanding).

The Mad Max Austrian economists and their loyal readers are the ones claiming depression yesterday, depression now, depression tomorrow, depression forever unless the United States dollar is demolished, so they need to make their case. There is no depression. All the charts ever collected by ZeroHedge don't make even just one depression.

There is recession occurring in China, Russia, Brazil, and depression is closing in fast in each of those three locales, but the market economies that are the opposite of the three are hanging tough. Sooner or later these crashing economies will be back on the IMF drawing board.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Publicus

[Harsh Jones]

 

Well (out of curiosity) went to check out the ex IMF/World Banker site - yet another crony? He promises a 16 hour explanation for "The Global Economic Crisis Explained" and "How The Economy Really Works" - but if you click on the link you'll see it costs a mere $500/year for the banker's explanation of this.

https://www.richardduncaneconomics.com/about-macro-watch/

^^^note that he suggests that wealth creation is fuelled by quantitative easing. What is QE? A Central Bank creating new money electronically to buy financial assets, like government bonds - according to the Bank of England:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetarypolicy/pages/qe/default.aspx

So the career banker Duncan insists that wealth creation is fuelled by creating new money electronically - not developing or improving products and services that solve a problem people face. "Creating new money electronically."

Right up there with Krugman and Hillary - "let's wave a wand and generate new wealth."

It doesn't add up. Wealth is physical products or intangible services - things that provide value to people - and creating wealth is generating those things. How these guys consider "creating new money electronically" as creating wealth escapes me.

 

No one accepts waving a wand as a means to generate wealth whether the wand might be electric or not.

The CCP Boyz have created trillions of dollars worth of physical products, from infrastructure to consumer goods, and they have purchased enormous amounts of capital equipment (from Germany), yet they are broke. Even with the Boyz $3.5 Trillion forex reserve, the Boyz are broke because they have misallocated assets of every kind. The long and the short of it is that how wealth is allocated in or by an economy has more to do with wealth creation than do either wands or simple electronics.

Again. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own definitions of words. China is not broke. Not even close. But it may go broke in the coming months. After more months of dumping US debt and dollars on the open market in the trillions. This does not bode well for the US. Since China has been the biggest buyer in the last 30 years. Plus the oil states are selling and issuing competing debt.

This is going to be 1997 all over again. Except it will be dollars flooding the forex markets. Not tiger currencies

[Publicus]

 

 

Well (out of curiosity) went to check out the ex IMF/World Banker site - yet another crony? He promises a 16 hour explanation for "The Global Economic Crisis Explained" and "How The Economy Really Works" - but if you click on the link you'll see it costs a mere $500/year for the banker's explanation of this.

https://www.richardduncaneconomics.com/about-macro-watch/

^^^note that he suggests that wealth creation is fuelled by quantitative easing. What is QE? A Central Bank creating new money electronically to buy financial assets, like government bonds - according to the Bank of England:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetarypolicy/pages/qe/default.aspx

So the career banker Duncan insists that wealth creation is fuelled by creating new money electronically - not developing or improving products and services that solve a problem people face. "Creating new money electronically."

Right up there with Krugman and Hillary - "let's wave a wand and generate new wealth."

It doesn't add up. Wealth is physical products or intangible services - things that provide value to people - and creating wealth is generating those things. How these guys consider "creating new money electronically" as creating wealth escapes me.

 

No one accepts waving a wand as a means to generate wealth whether the wand might be electric or not.

The CCP Boyz have created trillions of dollars worth of physical products, from infrastructure to consumer goods, and they have purchased enormous amounts of capital equipment (from Germany), yet they are broke. Even with the Boyz $3.5 Trillion forex reserve, the Boyz are broke because they have misallocated assets of every kind. The long and the short of it is that how wealth is allocated in or by an economy has more to do with wealth creation than do either wands or simple electronics.

Again. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own definitions of words. China is not broke. Not even close. But it may go broke in the coming months. After more months of dumping US debt and dollars on the open market in the trillions. This does not bode well for the US. Since China has been the biggest buyer in the last 30 years. Plus the oil states are selling and issuing competing debt.

This is going to be 1997 all over again. Except it will be dollars flooding the forex markets. Not tiger currencies

Austrian school Mad max political economists are focused always on the United States. The Austrian school boyz continue to search high and low for the ever elusive evidence the USA is finally disappearing from the earth which for a half century has been the dying wish of a long parade of Austrian school political economists and their loyal lieges.

The G-20 are profoundly concerned about the failing economy of the CCP China. The G-20 well know the United States is the least of their concerns, and for good sound and predictable reasons. It is beside the point that no one is better at financial warfare than is the United States. Or superior.

The Brics that have not fallen and shattered already are falling now. They are falling because they have no mortar inside or out.

[Harsh Jones]

 

Lets see how the Austrian approach works in the real world.. I will use the Asian Financial crisis of 1997.

The causes of the Asian financial crisis are many and disputed. At the time of the mid-1990s, Thailand, Indonesia and South Korea(440 million people, excluding China and Japan) had large current account deficits.cough..cough..US.. anyway,

Many economists believe that the Asian crisis was created by market psychology and policies that distorted incentives within the lender–borrower relationship.(ala China US) The resulting large quantities of credit that became available generated a highly leveraged economic climate, and pushed up asset prices, mainly real estate, to an unsustainable level. These asset prices eventually began to collapse, causing individuals and companies to default on debt obligations.

The resulting panic among lenders led to a large withdrawal of credit from the crisis countries, causing a credit crunch and further bankruptcies. In addition, as foreign investors attempted to withdraw their money, the exchange market was flooded with the currencies of the crisis countries, putting depreciative pressure on their exchange rates. To prevent currency values collapsing, these countries' governments raised domestic interest rates to exceedingly high levels (to help diminish flight of capital by making lending more attractive to investors) and to intervene in the exchange market, buying up any excess domestic currency at the fixed exchange rate with foreign reserves. (Indonesia had foreign exchange reserves of more than $20 billion)

Neither of these policy responses could be sustained for long. Very high interest rates, which can be extremely damaging to an economy that is healthy, wreaked further havoc on economies in an already fragile state, while the central banks were hemorrhaging foreign reserves, of which they had finite amounts. When it became clear that the tide of capital fleeing these countries was not to be stopped, the authorities ceased defending their fixed exchange rates and allowed their currencies to float. The resulting depreciated value of those currencies meant that foreign currency-denominated liabilities grew substantially in domestic currency terms, causing more bankruptcies and further deepening the crisis.The baht reached its lowest point of 56 units to the U.S. dollar in January 1998. The Thai stock market dropped 75%. Finance One, the largest Thai finance company until then, collapsed.^[30]

So Thailand for example went completely broke. They DID NOT print money and try and try and bail ANYTHING out.

The aftermath.

Crisis-struck nations to reduce government spending and deficits,(AUSTRIAN) allowed insolvent banks and financial institutions to fail,(AUSTRIAN) and aggressively raised interest rates.(AUSTRIAN) The reasoning was that these steps would restore confidence in the nations' fiscal solvency, penalize insolvent companies(AUSTRIAN), and protect currency values.

By 2001, Thailand's economy had recovered. The increasing tax revenues allowed the country to balance its budget and repay its debts four years ahead of schedule. The Thai baht continued to appreciate to 29 Baht to the U.S. dollar in October 2010.

^Does this read like a depression to you ????

Sounds like the IMF formula handed over to the Thai elites in 1997-98 to get them out of their deep dung and which they beefed and whined about from day one of it. My god! It is exactly the IMF formula given to the Thais to guide them out of their morass.

Interesting difference it is, between the Thais and the IMF in their crisis, contrasted to the Greeks and the ECB/EU. Despite all the resistance by the Thais, to include "strategic non-payment," and the like, the Thais instinctively knew they were following the right course and are prospering from it to the present (the current situation not withstanding).

The Mad Max Austrian economists and their loyal readers are the ones claiming depression yesterday, depression now, depression tomorrow, depression forever unless the United States dollar is demolished, so they need to make their case. There is no depression. All the charts ever collected by ZeroHedge don't make even just one depression.

There is recession occurring in China, Russia, Brazil, and depression is closing in fast in each of those three locales, but the market economies that are the opposite of the three are hanging tough. Sooner or later these crashing economies will be back on the IMF drawing board.

Sounds like the IMF formula handed over to the Thai elites in 1997-98 to get them out of their deep dung and which they beefed and whined about from day one of it. My god! It is exactly the IMF formula given to the Thais to guide them out of their morass.

My God ! the formula is right out of mad max Austrain economics text books ! YOU are the one saying that Thailand should have lowered rates, started QE programs and increased government spending. Instead they did the exact opposite and had a quick crash and a fast recovery. Not a depression like you and that bone head economist you quoted thought.

The formula that you are admitting, that worked for Asia , is the formula that Austrian economists advocate for the US and Europe.

The IMF loans were totally unnecessary and the IMF admitted it after the fact.

IMF admits Asian crisis mistakes - The Independent

www.independent.co.uk › News › Business

Jan 20, 1999 - THE INTERNATIONAL Monetary Fund has conceded it made mistakes in the Asian financial crisis. A report concludes that in the main its policy ...

IMF Admits Errors in Asia But Defends Basic Policies - The ...

www.nytimes.com/.../imf-admits-errors-in-asia-but-defends-basic-policie...

Jan 20, 1999 - In its first major review of its handling of the Asian financial crisis, the International Monetary Fund conceded today that it had made mistakes, ...

IMF Chief Acknowledges Errors During Asian Financial Crisis

www.voanews.com/.../imf-chief...errors...asian-financial-crisis.../166986....

Feb 1, 2011 - The head of the International Monetary Fund says the global lending agency has learned from mistakes it made handling the Asian financial ...

[Publicus]

 

 

Lets see how the Austrian approach works in the real world.. I will use the Asian Financial crisis of 1997.

The causes of the Asian financial crisis are many and disputed. At the time of the mid-1990s, Thailand, Indonesia and South Korea(440 million people, excluding China and Japan) had large current account deficits.cough..cough..US.. anyway,

Many economists believe that the Asian crisis was created by market psychology and policies that distorted incentives within the lender–borrower relationship.(ala China US) The resulting large quantities of credit that became available generated a highly leveraged economic climate, and pushed up asset prices, mainly real estate, to an unsustainable level. These asset prices eventually began to collapse, causing individuals and companies to default on debt obligations.

The resulting panic among lenders led to a large withdrawal of credit from the crisis countries, causing a credit crunch and further bankruptcies. In addition, as foreign investors attempted to withdraw their money, the exchange market was flooded with the currencies of the crisis countries, putting depreciative pressure on their exchange rates. To prevent currency values collapsing, these countries' governments raised domestic interest rates to exceedingly high levels (to help diminish flight of capital by making lending more attractive to investors) and to intervene in the exchange market, buying up any excess domestic currency at the fixed exchange rate with foreign reserves. (Indonesia had foreign exchange reserves of more than $20 billion)

Neither of these policy responses could be sustained for long. Very high interest rates, which can be extremely damaging to an economy that is healthy, wreaked further havoc on economies in an already fragile state, while the central banks were hemorrhaging foreign reserves, of which they had finite amounts. When it became clear that the tide of capital fleeing these countries was not to be stopped, the authorities ceased defending their fixed exchange rates and allowed their currencies to float. The resulting depreciated value of those currencies meant that foreign currency-denominated liabilities grew substantially in domestic currency terms, causing more bankruptcies and further deepening the crisis.The baht reached its lowest point of 56 units to the U.S. dollar in January 1998. The Thai stock market dropped 75%. Finance One, the largest Thai finance company until then, collapsed.^[30]

So Thailand for example went completely broke. They DID NOT print money and try and try and bail ANYTHING out.

The aftermath.

Crisis-struck nations to reduce government spending and deficits,(AUSTRIAN) allowed insolvent banks and financial institutions to fail,(AUSTRIAN) and aggressively raised interest rates.(AUSTRIAN) The reasoning was that these steps would restore confidence in the nations' fiscal solvency, penalize insolvent companies(AUSTRIAN), and protect currency values.

By 2001, Thailand's economy had recovered. The increasing tax revenues allowed the country to balance its budget and repay its debts four years ahead of schedule. The Thai baht continued to appreciate to 29 Baht to the U.S. dollar in October 2010.

^Does this read like a depression to you ????

Sounds like the IMF formula handed over to the Thai elites in 1997-98 to get them out of their deep dung and which they beefed and whined about from day one of it. My god! It is exactly the IMF formula given to the Thais to guide them out of their morass.

Interesting difference it is, between the Thais and the IMF in their crisis, contrasted to the Greeks and the ECB/EU. Despite all the resistance by the Thais, to include "strategic non-payment," and the like, the Thais instinctively knew they were following the right course and are prospering from it to the present (the current situation not withstanding).

The Mad Max Austrian economists and their loyal readers are the ones claiming depression yesterday, depression now, depression tomorrow, depression forever unless the United States dollar is demolished, so they need to make their case. There is no depression. All the charts ever collected by ZeroHedge don't make even just one depression.

There is recession occurring in China, Russia, Brazil, and depression is closing in fast in each of those three locales, but the market economies that are the opposite of the three are hanging tough. Sooner or later these crashing economies will be back on the IMF drawing board.

Sounds like the IMF formula handed over to the Thai elites in 1997-98 to get them out of their deep dung and which they beefed and whined about from day one of it. My god! It is exactly the IMF formula given to the Thais to guide them out of their morass.

My God ! the formula is right out of mad max Austrain economics text books ! YOU are the one saying that Thailand should have lowered rates, started QE programs and increased government spending. Instead they did the exact opposite and had a quick crash and a fast recovery. Not a depression like you and that bone head economist you quoted thought.

The formula that you are admitting, that worked for Asia , is the formula that Austrian economists advocate for the US and Europe.

The IMF loans were totally unnecessary and the IMF admitted it after the fact.

IMF admits Asian crisis mistakes - The Independent

www.independent.co.uk › News › Business

Jan 20, 1999 - THE INTERNATIONAL Monetary Fund has conceded it made mistakes in the Asian financial crisis. A report concludes that in the main its policy ...

IMF Admits Errors in Asia But Defends Basic Policies - The ...

www.nytimes.com/.../imf-admits-errors-in-asia-but-defends-basic-policie...

Jan 20, 1999 - In its first major review of its handling of the Asian financial crisis, the International Monetary Fund conceded today that it had made mistakes, ...

IMF Chief Acknowledges Errors During Asian Financial Crisis

www.voanews.com/.../imf-chief...errors...asian-financial-crisis.../166986....

Feb 1, 2011 - The head of the International Monetary Fund says the global lending agency has learned from mistakes it made handling the Asian financial ...

We who were here in 1997 well know the discussions of the time and so does the economist I quoted who was here too, with the IMF. So you're carrying on again as if you know something few others in the world could know and understand, or could possibly care to know and comprehend. That is simply how the world is and looks while sitting in the cloud that is the Austrian school.

Your links report that IMF confirmed it had the right policies and values, that the programs needed to be less bureaucratic and more Thailand-specific, that the one policy fits all notion was not the most viable approach. In other words, the IMF can accept feedback, it can and does adjust to critiques and it also accomplishes this by means of self-assessments.

Greece needs austerity and few people in their right mind contest the fact. Europe as a whole does not need austerity as much as it needs to make themselves more competitive, efficient, upwardly mobile. The capital markets are already there and need improvement, not a fundamental overhaul.

Austerity at this time in the CCP China is the last thing they need. The fundamentals of the CCP economy are not only in crisis, they are in the process of a catastrophic failure because they are fundamentally wrong. The financial system is and always has been a disaster waiting to happen, to include the shadow banking system. The political system and system of government are wrong, wrong, wrong. The Chinese people and elites need to receive the G-20 to restructure and reorganise everything there...absolutely everything.

The Austrian school of Mad Max marginals have it exactly backwards, upside down, inside out. Rather than focus instead on the CCP new emperors in China and the gangster-kleptocrats in Moscow, the Austrian school focuses on their deranged need to destroy the United States in order to get the world on the right path again. The Austrian school people have never faced reality or, if they have faced reality, they pursue a false agenda. The last place the Austrians need to go for a revival of their ever elusive "true" capitalism of the 19th century is Beijing or Moscow.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Publicus

[squarethecircle]

 

 

Well (out of curiosity) went to check out the ex IMF/World Banker site - yet another crony? He promises a 16 hour explanation for "The Global Economic Crisis Explained" and "How The Economy Really Works" - but if you click on the link you'll see it costs a mere $500/year for the banker's explanation of this.

https://www.richardduncaneconomics.com/about-macro-watch/

^^^note that he suggests that wealth creation is fuelled by quantitative easing. What is QE? A Central Bank creating new money electronically to buy financial assets, like government bonds - according to the Bank of England:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetarypolicy/pages/qe/default.aspx

So the career banker Duncan insists that wealth creation is fuelled by creating new money electronically - not developing or improving products and services that solve a problem people face. "Creating new money electronically."

Right up there with Krugman and Hillary - "let's wave a wand and generate new wealth."

It doesn't add up. Wealth is physical products or intangible services - things that provide value to people - and creating wealth is generating those things. How these guys consider "creating new money electronically" as creating wealth escapes me.

 

No one accepts waving a wand as a means to generate wealth whether the wand might be electric or not.

The CCP Boyz have created trillions of dollars worth of physical products, from infrastructure to consumer goods, and they have purchased enormous amounts of capital equipment (from Germany), yet they are broke. Even with the Boyz $3.5 Trillion forex reserve, the Boyz are broke because they have misallocated assets of every kind. The long and the short of it is that how wealth is allocated in or by an economy has more to do with wealth creation than do either wands or simple electronics.

Again. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own definitions of words. China is not broke. Not even close. But it may go broke in the coming months. After more months of dumping US debt and dollars on the open market in the trillions. This does not bode well for the US. Since China has been the biggest buyer in the last 30 years. Plus the oil states are selling and issuing competing debt.

This is going to be 1997 all over again. Except it will be dollars flooding the forex markets. Not tiger currencies

Austrian school Mad max political economists are focused always on the United States. The Austrian school boyz continue to search high and low for the ever elusive evidence the USA is finally disappearing from the earth which for a half century has been the dying wish of a long parade of Austrian school political economists and their loyal lieges.

The G-20 are profoundly concerned about the failing economy of the CCP China. The G-20 well know the United States is the least of their concerns, and for good sound and predictable reasons. It is beside the point that no one is better at financial warfare than is the United States. Or superior.

The Brics that have not fallen and shattered already are falling now. They are falling because they have no mortar inside or out.

Funny, I've read a bit from Austrians like F.A. Hayek (Road to Serfdom, Constitution of Liberty) and Milton Friedman, but cannot find this "Mad Max" desire to see the US disappear anywhere in their writings.

What they do talk - ie: the source of wealth, the nature of money, and how to structure a society so it prospers - seems relevant. The prosperous countries in this part of the world - Japan, South Korea, Taiwan - ie: countries where there is overall prosperity, not a lot of cash in the hands of a crooked few like PRC, Malaysia, and Thailand - seem to operate on a "copy and improve" basis, ie: they don't invent what they make, but they copy it and improve it. Like Samsung copying Apple but producing in a way they can sell at half the price.

Don't see the same in PRC, and on top of that they have chosen to become adversarial/enemies, so won't have the benefit of foreign expertise as countries like US do. They do have the massive population willing to work for slave wages so of course will be ever present, but don't see them either crashing or leading the way.

And another caution about people like Krugman and the banker/crony you cited: Nassim Taleb warned about letting people with no skin in the game run the show, and Warren Buffett warned about geeks bearing formulas.

[sandyf]

Nobody is trying to destroy the US economy or the USD, not saying they wouldn't like to, just a matter of putting things into perspective. The US was never elected, it became a self appointed dictator in global finance, and who wants a dictator.

The bully boy tactics have initiated changes in the financial world that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944.

There will be no changes in the financial world initiated by the dictatorships in Beijing and Moscow "that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944." None.

The Obama administration took a step toward backing China’s bid to have the yuan recognized as a global reserve currency, as the U.S. softened its insistence that the Chinese implement financial reforms to win support.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/u-s-takes-step-toward-support-for-china-s-reserve-currency-bid

[Publicus]

Nobody is trying to destroy the US economy or the USD, not saying they wouldn't like to, just a matter of putting things into perspective. The US was never elected, it became a self appointed dictator in global finance, and who wants a dictator.

The bully boy tactics have initiated changes in the financial world that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944.

There will be no changes in the financial world initiated by the dictatorships in Beijing and Moscow "that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944." None.

The Obama administration took a step toward backing China’s bid to have the yuan recognized as a global reserve currency, as the U.S. softened its insistence that the Chinese implement financial reforms to win support.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/u-s-takes-step-toward-support-for-china-s-reserve-currency-bid

Nothing in the post to include the contents of the link negates my quoted post concerning tyrant governments. The yuan would anyway join the IMF basket of reserve currencies comprised of the usd, euro, yen, pound.

There is no reason for the US to oppose including the yuan and Washington knows the fact. Nothing wrong either with applying a little leverage on the CCP Boyz in Beijing along the way, which is continuing to be done.

Yuan currently comprises 2% of global reserve forex funds and less than 2% of global trade. This does not register on the Bretton Woods scale. Yuan is not a desired or trusted currency and it now has the new risk added last month of a sudden volatility, downward especially. Recent CCP currency swap agreements with either tyrant governments or submerging emerging economies amount to nothing.

The central bank, the People's Bank of China, is not an independent central bank. It is 100% owned and operated by the Chinese Communist Party in their interests. IMF still has to get around the fact, which it can not do.

In economics and finance the CCP China is crashing in several sectors. In politics and government the CCP China is a dictatorship of tyrants.

[Naam]

Nobody is trying to destroy the US economy or the USD, not saying they wouldn't like to, just a matter of putting things into perspective. The US was never elected, it became a self appointed dictator in global finance, and who wants a dictator.

The bully boy tactics have initiated changes in the financial world that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944.

There will be no changes in the financial world initiated by the dictatorships in Beijing and Moscow "that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944." None.

The Obama administration took a step toward backing China’s bid to have the yuan recognized as a global reserve currency, as the U.S. softened its insistence that the Chinese implement financial reforms to win support.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/u-s-takes-step-toward-support-for-china-s-reserve-currency-bid

Nothing in the post to include the contents of the link negates my quoted post concerning tyrant governments. The yuan would anyway join the IMF basket of reserve currencies comprised of the usd, euro, yen, pound.

There is no reason for the US to oppose including the yuan and Washington knows the fact. Nothing wrong either with applying a little leverage on the CCP Boyz in Beijing along the way, which is continuing to be done.

Yuan currently comprises 2% of global reserve forex funds and less than 2% of global trade. This does not register on the Bretton Woods scale. Yuan is not a desired or trusted currency and it now has the new risk added last month of a sudden volatility, downward especially. Recent CCP currency swap agreements with either tyrant governments or submerging emerging economies amount to nothing.

The central bank, the People's Bank of China, is not an independent central bank. It is 100% owned and operated by the Chinese Communist Party in their interests. IMF still has to get around the fact, which it can not do.

In economics and finance the CCP China is crashing in several sectors. In politics and government the CCP China is a dictatorship of tyrants.

keep up the good job ridiculing yourself with arguments drawn out of thin air and negating facts

[Naam]

Nobody is trying to destroy the US economy or the USD, not saying they wouldn't like to, just a matter of putting things into perspective. The US was never elected, it became a self appointed dictator in global finance, and who wants a dictator.

The bully boy tactics have initiated changes in the financial world that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944.

There will be no changes in the financial world initiated by the dictatorships in Beijing and Moscow "that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944." None.

The Obama administration took a step toward backing China’s bid to have the yuan recognized as a global reserve currency, as the U.S. softened its insistence that the Chinese implement financial reforms to win support.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/u-s-takes-step-toward-support-for-china-s-reserve-currency-bid

an important reason why the U.S. softened its position must be because Boeing bagged an order valued $38 billion from the "poor CCP boyz" who got this kind of money only by the grace of "The Greatest Nation on Earth™ and its president Barack Obama "The Leader of the Free World"

[Publicus]

Nobody is trying to destroy the US economy or the USD, not saying they wouldn't like to, just a matter of putting things into perspective. The US was never elected, it became a self appointed dictator in global finance, and who wants a dictator.

The bully boy tactics have initiated changes in the financial world that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944.

There will be no changes in the financial world initiated by the dictatorships in Beijing and Moscow "that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944." None.

The Obama administration took a step toward backing China’s bid to have the yuan recognized as a global reserve currency, as the U.S. softened its insistence that the Chinese implement financial reforms to win support.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/u-s-takes-step-toward-support-for-china-s-reserve-currency-bid

an important reason why the U.S. softened its position must be because Boeing bagged an order valued $38 billion from the "poor CCP boyz" who got this kind of money only by the grace of "The Greatest Nation on Earth™ and its president Barack Obama "The Leader of the Free World"

Let's be clear you're not quoting anything I ever wrote (or said or say) here or elsewhere.

Neither does one accomplish any thing by making declaratory or arbitrary and summary pronouncements in the place of facts, logic, reasoning, arguments.

The CCP Boyz are stuck in the "Impossible Trinity" of finance, economics, trade, and the world knows it.

The Boyz all along have been cheating the devil by running a closed capital account, conducting a monetary policy separated from global markets; configuring a tightly controlled currency. No one has been able to do all three and live to tell the tale, which is why it's called the Impossible Trinity.

One out of the three is fine. Two of the three is typical. All three together produced the Asian financial crisis of 1997, the 1994 Mexican peso crisis Prez Clinton had to take control of to stop, the Argentine bankruptcies I and II.

That sound Xi Jinping is hearing is the devil banging at the door of ZhongNanHai.

ZhongNanHai national goverment compound enclosed by high walls, Beijing, China.

ZhongNanHai government compound and lake enclosed by walls in Beijing, China, several blocks from

Tiananmen Square, and seat of the national government of the People's Republic of China. It is located

in the only section of Beijing where highrise construction is forbidden. (NASA satellite photo.)

[sandyf]

Nobody is trying to destroy the US economy or the USD, not saying they wouldn't like to, just a matter of putting things into perspective. The US was never elected, it became a self appointed dictator in global finance, and who wants a dictator.

The bully boy tactics have initiated changes in the financial world that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944.

There will be no changes in the financial world initiated by the dictatorships in Beijing and Moscow "that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944." None.

The Obama administration took a step toward backing China’s bid to have the yuan recognized as a global reserve currency, as the U.S. softened its insistence that the Chinese implement financial reforms to win support.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/u-s-takes-step-toward-support-for-china-s-reserve-currency-bid

Nothing in the post to include the contents of the link negates my quoted post concerning tyrant governments. The yuan would anyway join the IMF basket of reserve currencies comprised of the usd, euro, yen, pound.

There is no reason for the US to oppose including the yuan and Washington knows the fact. Nothing wrong either with applying a little leverage on the CCP Boyz in Beijing along the way, which is continuing to be done.

Yuan currently comprises 2% of global reserve forex funds and less than 2% of global trade. This does not register on the Bretton Woods scale. Yuan is not a desired or trusted currency and it now has the new risk added last month of a sudden volatility, downward especially. Recent CCP currency swap agreements with either tyrant governments or submerging emerging economies amount to nothing.

The central bank, the People's Bank of China, is not an independent central bank. It is 100% owned and operated by the Chinese Communist Party in their interests. IMF still has to get around the fact, which it can not do.

In economics and finance the CCP China is crashing in several sectors. In politics and government the CCP China is a dictatorship of tyrants.

You can spin it any way you want. At the end of the day it is all part of a restructure that the US desperately tried to avoid, sooner or later they had to change tack. From the same article.

"The shift in the U.S. position follows the administration’s failed attempt to prevent allies from joining the China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank earlier this year, a strategy that was faulted by former policy makers including ex-Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson."

Slowly but surely a ring road is being constructed around the dollar dominance, the first phase of CIPS is due to start running after the Chinese national holiday.

[Publicus]

There will be no changes in the financial world initiated by the dictatorships in Beijing and Moscow "that may not be seen for some time yet, the like of which have not been seen since 1944." None.

The Obama administration took a step toward backing China’s bid to have the yuan recognized as a global reserve currency, as the U.S. softened its insistence that the Chinese implement financial reforms to win support.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/u-s-takes-step-toward-support-for-china-s-reserve-currency-bid

Nothing in the post to include the contents of the link negates my quoted post concerning tyrant governments. The yuan would anyway join the IMF basket of reserve currencies comprised of the usd, euro, yen, pound.

There is no reason for the US to oppose including the yuan and Washington knows the fact. Nothing wrong either with applying a little leverage on the CCP Boyz in Beijing along the way, which is continuing to be done.

Yuan currently comprises 2% of global reserve forex funds and less than 2% of global trade. This does not register on the Bretton Woods scale. Yuan is not a desired or trusted currency and it now has the new risk added last month of a sudden volatility, downward especially. Recent CCP currency swap agreements with either tyrant governments or submerging emerging economies amount to nothing.

The central bank, the People's Bank of China, is not an independent central bank. It is 100% owned and operated by the Chinese Communist Party in their interests. IMF still has to get around the fact, which it can not do.

In economics and finance the CCP China is crashing in several sectors. In politics and government the CCP China is a dictatorship of tyrants.

You can spin it any way you want. At the end of the day it is all part of a restructure that the US desperately tried to avoid, sooner or later they had to change tack. From the same article.

"The shift in the U.S. position follows the administration’s failed attempt to prevent allies from joining the China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank earlier this year, a strategy that was faulted by former policy makers including ex-Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson."

Slowly but surely a ring road is being constructed around the dollar dominance, the first phase of CIPS is due to start running after the Chinese national holiday.

The CCP China is known globally as a "slow-pay" country in banking tansactions, personal or institutional which was not going to change for some time but which will not change now with Beijing going broke as it has done. It takes months to complete a transaction with the CCP China even after it has been finalized for settlement. Thailand, on the other hand, as with Japan, South Korea, USA, EU and others like them is a "fast pay" country.

The China International Payments System sounds like something but it is nothing, no big deal. Like everything else coming out of the CCP, it is another grandiose scheme that already has been delayed, set back, reduced. Same as the Asia Infrastructure and Investment Bank, same as the nothing happening canal through Nicaragua, same as the failing reforms of the CCP economy.

The emerging markets are submerging led by the CCP China, Russia, Brazil.

As I'd noted, yuan is 2% of global forex reserves and less than 2% in global trade.

CIPS was initially expected to launch last year, but it was delayed due to “technical problems." The watered down version of CIPS means that it would be a network for handling trading deals with Chinese currency.

The revised version of the payments system would now only be used for cross-border yuan trade deals and won’t have capital-related transactions, the sources said. That has a significant impact on the system because it would delay billions of dollars in transactions, which would be another setback for China’s plans to rollout the system.

“I think ambition stood before ability,” said an anonymous source involved in the project, according to Reuters. “It doesn’t include a lot of things, but there is pressure for delivery.”

http://www.pymnts.com/news/2015/china-international-payments-system-faces-setback/

The CCP dictators and tyrants in Beijing are now displaying openly their reverse midas touch with their economy that they'd hidden for such a long time. They keep popping up with grandiose proposals, grand schemes, complicated designs that are far beyond their realistic reach. To point out the unrealistic nature of the CCP Boyz in their dreamworld is hardly 'spin.' It's the liege followers of the dictators in Beijing (and Moscow) who keep coming up with scheme after scheme none of which go anywhere who have their feet dancing in the air. Scheme after grandiose scheme, one after the other being dumped onto an ever growing heap of 'em.

[Publicus]

The Obama administration took a step toward backing China’s bid to have the yuan recognized as a global reserve currency, as the U.S. softened its insistence that the Chinese implement financial reforms to win support.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/u-s-takes-step-toward-support-for-china-s-reserve-currency-bid

Nothing in the post to include the contents of the link negates my quoted post concerning tyrant governments. The yuan would anyway join the IMF basket of reserve currencies comprised of the usd, euro, yen, pound.

There is no reason for the US to oppose including the yuan and Washington knows the fact. Nothing wrong either with applying a little leverage on the CCP Boyz in Beijing along the way, which is continuing to be done.

Yuan currently comprises 2% of global reserve forex funds and less than 2% of global trade. This does not register on the Bretton Woods scale. Yuan is not a desired or trusted currency and it now has the new risk added last month of a sudden volatility, downward especially. Recent CCP currency swap agreements with either tyrant governments or submerging emerging economies amount to nothing.

The central bank, the People's Bank of China, is not an independent central bank. It is 100% owned and operated by the Chinese Communist Party in their interests. IMF still has to get around the fact, which it can not do.

In economics and finance the CCP China is crashing in several sectors. In politics and government the CCP China is a dictatorship of tyrants.

keep up the good job ridiculing yourself with arguments drawn out of thin air and negating facts

It's another big default for the CCP Boyz in Beijing. Defaults are occurring across the CCP's economy, dropping out of thin air like a thick rain.

The Greece of the east.

China’s $7 Billion Metals Exchange ‘Ponzi’ Just Tip of the Iceberg The Fanya metals exchange can't, or won't, give investors their money—and they're likely not the only ones

Protesters against the Fanya metals exchange outside the office of the China Insurance Regulatory Commission in Shanghai on Sept. 25. Police dispersed the demonstrators protesting the company's default and who were demanding their investments back. (Johannes Eisele/AFP/Getty Images)

Fanya markets financial products called “ri jin bao,” promised fixed returns of up to 13.7 percent and guaranteed principal. According to financial news website Caixin, Fanya had stopped investor withdraws in July, freezing assets worth approximately 43 billion yuan ($6.7 billion) from 220,000 investors.

The demonstrators called Fanya a Ponzi scheme.

China Financial Derivatives Investment Research Institute estimates there are around 400 similar exchanges around the country, with 1 trillion yuan ($157 billion) in total assets. Those figures suggest there’s potential for more financial and social upheaval ahead.

http://www.chinadailyasia.com/business/2015-09/23/content_15320402.html

[Harsh Jones]

The CCP China is known globally as a "slow-pay" country in banking tansactions, personal or institutional which was not going to change for some time but which will not change now with Beijing going broke as it has done. It takes months to complete a transaction with the CCP China even after it has been finalized for settlement. Thailand, on the other hand, as with Japan, South Korea, USA, EU and others like them is a "fast pay" country.

The China International Payments System sounds like something but it is nothing, no big deal. Like everything else coming out of the CCP, it is another grandiose scheme that already has been delayed, set back, reduced. Same as the Asia Infrastructure and Investment Bank, same as the nothing happening canal through Nicaragua, same as the failing reforms of the CCP economy.

The emerging markets are submerging led by the CCP China, Russia, Brazil.

As I'd noted, yuan is 2% of global forex reserves and less than 2% in global trade.

CIPS was initially expected to launch last year, but it was delayed due to “technical problems." The watered down version of CIPS means that it would be a network for handling trading deals with Chinese currency.

The revised version of the payments system would now only be used for cross-border yuan trade deals and won’t have capital-related transactions, the sources said. That has a significant impact on the system because it would delay billions of dollars in transactions, which would be another setback for China’s plans to rollout the system.

“I think ambition stood before ability,” said an anonymous source involved in the project, according to Reuters. “It doesn’t include a lot of things, but there is pressure for delivery.”

http://www.pymnts.com/news/2015/china-international-payments-system-faces-setback/

The CCP dictators and tyrants in Beijing are now displaying openly their reverse midas touch with their economy that they'd hidden for such a long time. They keep popping up with grandiose proposals, grand schemes, complicated designs that are far beyond their realistic reach. To point out the unrealistic nature of the CCP Boyz in their dreamworld is hardly 'spin.' It's the liege followers of the dictators in Beijing (and Moscow) who keep coming up with scheme after scheme none of which go anywhere who have their feet dancing in the air. Scheme after grandiose scheme, one after the other being dumped onto an ever growing heap of 'em.

China being the us's biggest creditor and Brazil being the US's 5th biggest creditor. Most people like you will get this backwards. Perfectly backwards. In 1997, Asia was running current account DEFICITS. Selling their forex reserves this time is not like throwing them down a black hole because they are not debtors. They can and are exporting their problems by selling dollars.

Brazil’s Real Strengthens Against Dollar

SAO PAULO—The Brazilian real strengthened against the dollar on Thursday, the first time in six sessions, after the president of the central bank said he is willing to use the country’s foreign reserves to defend the currency.

Traders and economists have criticized the central bank for not selling down some of its approximately $370 billion in foreign-currency reserves to help support the real, relying instead on derivatives contracts.

On Thursday central bank President Alexandre Tombini addressed those complaints, saying the reserves are a form of insurance for Brazil that “could and should be used.”