Do you have the right to be safe in Thailand?

[Berkshire]

I think that apart from the odd one or two, there have been lots of sensible posts here, it has made me change my mind about some things.

Maybe the topic title should have been "Do you have the right to EXPECT to be safe in Thailand"? Obviously that would apply to any country.

I don't expect to see ten year old motorbike riders nearly causing me to fall off my bike, or motorbikes nearly knocking me down on the sidewalk.

I also know that nothing is ever going to change, and I don't expect it to, one poster even insinuated that it would be my own fault if I got hit

by a motorbike, as I should "be aware of what is going on around me", unfortunately, I can't have a leisurely stroll along the sidewalk, but then

should I expect to?

It sounds as if "traffic safety" is your primary gripe, and not personal safety in general, i.e., from petty crime, terrorists, thugs, etc. On that note, I can see your point but honestly, it's hard for me to believe that you're dealing with this on a daily basis. I can't recall ever being threatened by a motorbike on the sidewalk (does this happen a lot where you live?). But I'm sure you're not suggesting that bikers/motorist are out to run you over intentionally. So it must be mostly negligence...but then is it really that egregious and common? I drive on Thailand roads every single day and I can say that "most" Thai drivers are courteous and are just fine. Even the bikers mostly want to stay out of your way (I drive a car). What irks me more than anything are the slow and meek drivers, so we're all looking at things from different perspectives.

Anyways, it's obvious to me that the Thais want to be safe just as much as any farang. Everybody just wants to get to their destination without getting in an accident. Can't do much about the 5% that are careless, but it's like that in most places.

It sounds as if "traffic safety" is your primary gripe. Yes it is, along with the state of the roads, in the small town up country where I live, there are lots of underage children riding motorbikes, and it's only when I go to Bangkok, that I see the retards riding along the sidewalks and weaving in and out of pedestrians.

I have never had an accident driving here in ten years, and only one which was very minor, riding a motorbike, but no other road user was involved.

Apart from traffic, I have always felt and been safe, that is my main upside of living in Thailand. But I have to say that Transam has got it spot on with everything he says here.

I can certainly make a list of unsafe things that people do every day....if I was that interested. But as it pertains to me, I don't typically have any issues driving in Thailand. Regarding road conditions, narrow soi's, road construction, traffic congestion, cars/bikes/trucks/tuk tuk/buses/bicycles/vans/tourists/3-wheel noise machines, etc. having to share the roads, yeah, it could be better.

[Berkshire]

If Trans sees it EVERYDAY.....You are wrong............

If "most" Thai drivers are as unsafe as you say, even I wouldn't want to venture out on these roads. But again, I drive every single day and nary have any issues. So let's agree to disagree.

[jmccarty]

Mai pen lai - it is, what it is!

[hawker9000]

If Trans sees it EVERYDAY.....You are wrong............

If "most" Thai drivers are as unsafe as you say, even I wouldn't want to venture out on these roads. But again, I drive every single day and nary have any issues. So let's agree to disagree.

Ah yes. Another "it-has-to-happen-to-me" 'er. Not being able to learn from the experience of others sounds like a pretty slow, and remarkably painful, learning curve. (Not so encouraging for the future of the species, either...)

[Berkshire]

If Trans sees it EVERYDAY.....You are wrong............

If "most" Thai drivers are as unsafe as you say, even I wouldn't want to venture out on these roads. But again, I drive every single day and nary have any issues. So let's agree to disagree.

Ah yes. Another "it-has-to-happen-to-me" 'er. Not being able to learn from the experience of others sounds like a pretty slow, and remarkably painful, learning curve. (Not so encouraging for the future of the species, either...)

What?? I've been driving every day in Thailand for 10+ years. What the freak are you talking about?

[goreme]

It sounds as if "traffic safety" is your primary gripe, and not personal safety in general, i.e., from petty crime, terrorists, thugs, etc. On that note, I can see your point but honestly, it's hard for me to believe that you're dealing with this on a daily basis. I can't recall ever being threatened by a motorbike on the sidewalk (does this happen a lot where you live?). But I'm sure you're not suggesting that bikers/motorist are out to run you over intentionally. So it must be mostly negligence...but then is it really that egregious and common? I drive on Thailand roads every single day and I can say that "most" Thai drivers are courteous and are just fine. Even the bikers mostly want to stay out of your way (I drive a car). What irks me more than anything are the slow and meek drivers, so we're all looking at things from different perspectives.

Anyways, it's obvious to me that the Thais want to be safe just as much as any farang. Everybody just wants to get to their destination without getting in an accident. Can't do much about the 5% that are careless, but it's like that in most places.

Your last para...You must be joking........Thai folk haven't the first idea about safety......Thats why they give children keys to their motor bikes.....Thats why they overtake on bends......Thats why they open car doors without looking........Thats why they pull out of side roads without looking...Thats why they overtake rides indicating to turn right........Thats why my list could go on......

It sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. Your complaints go beyond simple criticism but rather show contempt for Thai culture and their parental values.

For all your criticisms, I can name numerous other developing countries, not to mention eastern Europe and even US/UK/AUS where similar things happen all too often. Open doors without looking...happens all the time in aforementioned countries, pull out of side of roads without looking...happens often in eastern Europe, overtaking on windy roads...happens quite often on coastal roads in California.

Yes, according to western sensibilities minors should not be driving motorbikes. However, it seems those same 'western sensibilities' dont apply to the hoards of middle aged farang who come to Thailand explicitly looking for sex with minors.

Maybe your criticism of Thais is misplaced and you should redirect your outrage elsewhere.

[arunsakda]

In so much as Thailand is signatory to the UN UDHR you have such rights. The problem is there are many here willing to violate your right to be safe and there is piss all one can do about it.

Sent from my dial up connection

Edited September 1, 2015 by arunsakda

[goreme]

It sounds as if "traffic safety" is your primary gripe, and not personal safety in general, i.e., from petty crime, terrorists, thugs, etc. On that note, I can see your point but honestly, it's hard for me to believe that you're dealing with this on a daily basis. I can't recall ever being threatened by a motorbike on the sidewalk (does this happen a lot where you live?). But I'm sure you're not suggesting that bikers/motorist are out to run you over intentionally. So it must be mostly negligence...but then is it really that egregious and common? I drive on Thailand roads every single day and I can say that "most" Thai drivers are courteous and are just fine. Even the bikers mostly want to stay out of your way (I drive a car). What irks me more than anything are the slow and meek drivers, so we're all looking at things from different perspectives.

Anyways, it's obvious to me that the Thais want to be safe just as much as any farang. Everybody just wants to get to their destination without getting in an accident. Can't do much about the 5% that are careless, but it's like that in most places.

Your last para...You must be joking........Thai folk haven't the first idea about safety......Thats why they give children keys to their motor bikes.....Thats why they overtake on bends......Thats why they open car doors without looking........Thats why they pull out of side roads without looking...Thats why they overtake rides indicating to turn right........Thats why my list could go on......

It sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. Your complaints go beyond simple criticism but rather show contempt for Thai culture and their parental values.

For all your criticisms, I can name numerous other developing countries, not to mention eastern Europe and even US/UK/AUS where similar things happen all too often. Open doors without looking...happens all the time in aforementioned countries, pull out of side of roads without looking...happens often in eastern Europe, overtaking on windy roads...happens quite often on coastal roads in California.

Yes, according to western sensibilities minors should not be driving motorbikes. However, it seems those same 'western sensibilities' dont apply to the hoards of middle aged farang who come to Thailand explicitly looking for sex with minors.

Maybe your criticism of Thais is misplaced and you should redirect your outrage elsewhere.

Are you a bit pervvy...? Why bring child sex into a discussion about safety..

Seems you know feeeeeerk all about Thai safety because you don't live here. You know nothing about road stuff, you know nothing about basic electricity that kills zillions in LOS every year........Simple stuff that the years here taught me....

.............

PS...OK bright boy, Why do parents give underage kids keys to their m/cycle...ONE QUESTION.......ANSWER IT.........?

If you want to bash Thais then expect to get a taste of your own farang hypocrisy.

With 'years of experience' you fail to understand that Thailand is a developing country (ie aspires to wealth but still relatively poor). Like other developing countries, laws are loosely enforced, many barely make ends meet and children often work to support their family and require transportation.

Unfortunately many farang like yourself never bother trying to understand and do nothing but complain while showing contempt for Thailand -- it's all about me, me, me and how I am being inconvenienced. All while taking advantage of the infrastructure and low cost of living.

Bottomline is Thais are aware of what many farang like you think of them and the feeling is often mutual. Openly insulting them in a public forum is not going to make your life nor those of other farang living here any easier.

[Ban Merry]

PS...OK bright boy, Why do parents give underage kids keys to their m/cycle...ONE QUESTION.......ANSWER IT.........?

Because the kids are sober!

Next...

[NoshowJones]

PS...OK bright boy, Why do parents give underage kids keys to their m/cycle...ONE QUESTION.......ANSWER IT.........?

Because the kids are sober!

Next...

What is worse, a ten year old riding a motorbike on a public road, or an adult who is drunk doing the same thing?

[StreetCowboy]

PS...OK bright boy, Why do parents give underage kids keys to their m/cycle...ONE QUESTION.......ANSWER IT.........?

Because the kids are sober!

Next...

What is worse, a ten year old riding a motorbike on a public road, or an adult who is drunk doing the same thing?

From the way that you present the question, it almost sounds as if you have a preconceived idea that both are bad things.

Personally, I think introducing relative judgments into the assessment of misdeeds is the mark of an apologist

"Well, at least he didn't run amok and kill dozens of people..."

SC

[SoiBiker]

PS...OK bright boy, Why do parents give underage kids keys to their m/cycle...ONE QUESTION.......ANSWER IT.........?

Because the kids are sober!

Next...

What is worse, a ten year old riding a motorbike on a public road, or an adult who is drunk doing the same thing?

A drunk ten year old riding a motorbike on the pavement?

[NoshowJones]

PS...OK bright boy, Why do parents give underage kids keys to their m/cycle...ONE QUESTION.......ANSWER IT.........?

Because the kids are sober!

Next...

What is worse, a ten year old riding a motorbike on a public road, or an adult who is drunk doing the same thing?

A drunk ten year old riding a motorbike on the pavement?

Well said SB.

[nemrut]

PS...OK bright boy, Why do parents give underage kids keys to their m/cycle...ONE QUESTION.......ANSWER IT.........?

Because the kids are sober!

Next...

..that would never happen in the west as parents there rarely get drunk.

[mgjackson69]

You do not have the "right" to "be safe" (in quotes because they are nebulous terms), anywhere.

You have the responsibility to put yourself in situations where you are comfortable, and ensure your own safety.

and how do you ensure your safety when motorbikes are coming up behind you when you are walking along the pavement?

By paying attention to what is going on around me

By paying attention to what is going on around me. So I have supposed to see what is in front of me and behind me at the same time.

Is that what you would be saying if your wife or children were hit by one of these ? " You should be paying attention to what is going on around you."

Why bring my wife and children into this? You do not even know if I have a wife and/or children.

Be responsible for yourself.

[NoshowJones]

MGJackson69. Yes be responsible for yourself, never mind anyone else. That's right, I don't know if you have a wife and/or kids, but pity help them if you do.

[StreetCowboy]

MGJackson69. Yes be responsible for yourself, never mind anyone else. That's right, I don't know if you have a wife and/or kids, but pity help them if you do.

Some people lack the abstract thinking skills to extrapolate, to consider hypothetical issues, or to see anything from anything other than their own point of view.

SC

[rgs2001uk]

MGJackson69. Yes be responsible for yourself, never mind anyone else. That's right, I don't know if you have a wife and/or kids, but pity help them if you do.

Some people lack the abstract thinking skills to extrapolate, to consider hypothetical issues, or to see anything from anything other than their own point of view.

SC

Maybe I am just thick or lack comprehension skills.

As of yet no one has defined what "to be safe" means.

I drive a 7 year old car with with 140,000 kms on the clock, I drive expecting the unexpected, I drive definsively, NEVER had a problem.

Please explain OP, what is "safe"

In my experience, farangs are their own worst enemy, you aint in Kansas now Toto, Thailand is a GREAT country, but it isnt for everyone, and its certainly no place for angry old men.

[StreetCowboy]

MGJackson69. Yes be responsible for yourself, never mind anyone else. That's right, I don't know if you have a wife and/or kids, but pity help them if you do.

Some people lack the abstract thinking skills to extrapolate, to consider hypothetical issues, or to see anything from anything other than their own point of view.

SC

Maybe I am just thick or lack comprehension skills.

As of yet no one has defined what "to be safe" means.

I drive a 7 year old car with with 140,000 kms on the clock, I drive expecting the unexpected, I drive definsively, NEVER had a problem.

Please explain OP, what is "safe"

In my experience, farangs are their own worst enemy, you aint in Kansas now Toto, Thailand is a GREAT country, but it isnt for everyone, and its certainly no place for angry old men.

I think I earlier gave the definition of safe: free from unacceptable risk. What was acceptable in my young day is no longer considered safe, back in the Old Country.

Many people have a poor understanding of risk, and perceive risk differently after an accident than before. Also, most people have a far greater tolerance of the risks that they create than those that others impose upon them

SC

[rgs2001uk]

MGJackson69. Yes be responsible for yourself, never mind anyone else. That's right, I don't know if you have a wife and/or kids, but pity help them if you do.

Some people lack the abstract thinking skills to extrapolate, to consider hypothetical issues, or to see anything from anything other than their own point of view.

SC

Maybe I am just thick or lack comprehension skills.

As of yet no one has defined what "to be safe" means.

I drive a 7 year old car with with 140,000 kms on the clock, I drive expecting the unexpected, I drive definsively, NEVER had a problem.

Please explain OP, what is "safe"

In my experience, farangs are their own worst enemy, you aint in Kansas now Toto, Thailand is a GREAT country, but it isnt for everyone, and its certainly no place for angry old men.

I think I earlier gave the definition of safe: free from unacceptable risk. What was acceptable in my young day is no longer considered safe, back in the Old Country.

Many people have a poor understanding of risk, and perceive risk differently after an accident than before. Also, most people have a far greater tolerance of the risks that they create than those that others impose upon them

SC

As one who was employed in the actuary industry I have a great understanding of risk, IMHO its the ones who have no understanding that present a problem not only to themselves but to others, for the simple reason , for one reason or another, they refuse to have insurance.

Best we get them on a NEBOSH course, level 3 at least?

[StreetCowboy]

Driving without insurance, or out with your insurance cover, is one of the most contemptible of crimes.

Which reminds me, I should try and get 3rd party for my bicycle ...

[rgs2001uk]

Driving without insurance, or out with your insurance cover, is one of the most contemptible of crimes.

Which reminds me, I should try and get 3rd party for my bicycle ...

Best thing you can do is throw it over the garden wall and give the ploblem to someone else.

Dont even get me started on the farang idiots that have gone native and think its ok to drink and drive.

[StreetCowboy]

Driving without insurance, or out with your insurance cover, is one of the most contemptible of crimes.

Which reminds me, I should try and get 3rd party for my bicycle ...

Best thing you can do is throw it over the garden wall and give the ploblem to someone else.

Dont even get me started on the farang idiots that have gone native and think its ok to drink and drive.

Aye, right, I can just see Naam's face if his multi-lingual gardener gets hit by a flying bike. I might learn some new swear words, though

[rgs2001uk]

Driving without insurance, or out with your insurance cover, is one of the most contemptible of crimes.

Which reminds me, I should try and get 3rd party for my bicycle ...

Best thing you can do is throw it over the garden wall and give the ploblem to someone else.

Dont even get me started on the farang idiots that have gone native and think its ok to drink and drive.

Aye, right, I can just see Naam's face if his multi-lingual gardener gets hit by a flying bike. I might learn some new swear words, though

Please forgive my ignorane, what did you mean by "3rd party"

It wasnt the clairvoynt dog that speaks at least 5 languages and advises agains investing in gold was it?

Still, at least said dog is smarter than yer average poster, the dog dont drink and drive, a 500SL awaits to take him back to his kennel.

Meanwhile that bloody dog gave me the fingers as I cycled up the soi the other day, I really should have a word with his master.

[CharlieH]

Driving without insurance, or out with your insurance cover, is one of the most contemptible of crimes.

Which reminds me, I should try and get 3rd party for my bicycle ...

Best thing you can do is throw it over the garden wall and give the ploblem to someone else.

Dont even get me started on the farang idiots that have gone native and think its ok to drink and drive.

Aye, right, I can just see Naam's face if his multi-lingual gardener gets hit by a flying bike. I might learn some new swear words, though

Please forgive my ignorane, what did you mean by "3rd party"

It wasnt the clairvoynt dog that speaks at least 5 languages and advises agains investing in gold was it?

Still, at least said dog is smarter than yer average poster, the dog dont drink and drive, a 500SL awaits to take him back to his kennel.

Meanwhile that bloody dog gave me the fingers as I cycled up the soi the other day, I really should have a word with his master.

I am not now nor have I ever been clairvoyant. Although I have been know to spot reincarnations when they appear.

[mgjackson69]

MGJackson69. Yes be responsible for yourself, never mind anyone else. That's right, I don't know if you have a wife and/or kids, but pity help them if you do.

Oh yes...there we go....your argument(s) are nonsense, so we go to the personal attack.

Since you seem so fixated on the "motorbikes on the sidewalk" scenario, let's go with that.

If I were to be walking on a sidewalk with my (perhaps hypothetical, perhaps not) wife and children, of course I would be watching out for them as well as myself...that would be part of my responsibilities as a husband and father.

Likewise, if I was with some friends walking on the sidewalk, I would do the same...but also expect them to be watching out for themselves.

If I was walking along and saw someone I did not know possibly in harm's way, I would also give a warning.

You have extrapolated my belief in personal responsibility into me being some hardass, heartless bastard who cares about nobody else. You do not know me and have no basis whatsoever for making this determination.

[NoshowJones]

MGJackson69. Yes be responsible for yourself, never mind anyone else. That's right, I don't know if you have a wife and/or kids, but pity help them if you do.

Oh yes...there we go....your argument(s) are nonsense, so we go to the personal attack.

Since you seem so fixated on the "motorbikes on the sidewalk" scenario, let's go with that.

If I were to be walking on a sidewalk with my (perhaps hypothetical, perhaps not) wife and children, of course I would be watching out for them as well as myself...that would be part of my responsibilities as a husband and father.

Likewise, if I was with some friends walking on the sidewalk, I would do the same...but also expect them to be watching out for themselves.

If I was walking along and saw someone I did not know possibly in harm's way, I would also give a warning.

You have extrapolated my belief in personal responsibility into me being some hardass, heartless bastard who cares about nobody else. You do not know me and have no basis whatsoever for making this determination.

I do not believe for a minute that you are a hardass or heartless bastard, we just disagree about motorcyclists riding on the sidewalk, you think it is OK and pedestrians should watch out for themselves, I disagree with that, I think pedestrians should be able to walk in safety, we will just agree to disagree on this, one last thing. If you had children who walk along sidewalks going to school, would you really be happy for them being put in danger by these retards, how easy is it for kids to watch out for themselves when they are more interested in their ice creams?

[SoiBiker]

This is Thailand. The sidewalk isn't for walking on. It's for motorbikes and small restaurants.

[mgjackson69]

MGJackson69. Yes be responsible for yourself, never mind anyone else. That's right, I don't know if you have a wife and/or kids, but pity help them if you do.

Oh yes...there we go....your argument(s) are nonsense, so we go to the personal attack.

Since you seem so fixated on the "motorbikes on the sidewalk" scenario, let's go with that.

If I were to be walking on a sidewalk with my (perhaps hypothetical, perhaps not) wife and children, of course I would be watching out for them as well as myself...that would be part of my responsibilities as a husband and father.

Likewise, if I was with some friends walking on the sidewalk, I would do the same...but also expect them to be watching out for themselves.

If I was walking along and saw someone I did not know possibly in harm's way, I would also give a warning.

You have extrapolated my belief in personal responsibility into me being some hardass, heartless bastard who cares about nobody else. You do not know me and have no basis whatsoever for making this determination.

I do not believe for a minute that you are a hardass or heartless bastard, we just disagree about motorcyclists riding on the sidewalk, you think it is OK and pedestrians should watch out for themselves, I disagree with that, I think pedestrians should be able to walk in safety, we will just agree to disagree on this, one last thing. If you had children who walk along sidewalks going to school, would you really be happy for them being put in danger by these retards, how easy is it for kids to watch out for themselves when they are more interested in their ice creams?

We are in agreement about motorcyclists on the sidewalks. I also think they should not be there.

Given that the current environment allows their presence, then we have to look out for ourselves.

As far as the children using the walks goes, that is a difficult one. Kids do not pay attention to anything except what is going on in their world at the moment. I would not be happy about it, and would try to minimize the risk. How? Perhaps by walking the young one to school, and meeting them after school to walk them home, if that was possible.

[NoshowJones]

MGJackson69. Yes be responsible for yourself, never mind anyone else. That's right, I don't know if you have a wife and/or kids, but pity help them if you do.

Oh yes...there we go....your argument(s) are nonsense, so we go to the personal attack.

Since you seem so fixated on the "motorbikes on the sidewalk" scenario, let's go with that.

If I were to be walking on a sidewalk with my (perhaps hypothetical, perhaps not) wife and children, of course I would be watching out for them as well as myself...that would be part of my responsibilities as a husband and father.

Likewise, if I was with some friends walking on the sidewalk, I would do the same...but also expect them to be watching out for themselves.

If I was walking along and saw someone I did not know possibly in harm's way, I would also give a warning.

You have extrapolated my belief in personal responsibility into me being some hardass, heartless bastard who cares about nobody else. You do not know me and have no basis whatsoever for making this determination.

I do not believe for a minute that you are a hardass or heartless bastard, we just disagree about motorcyclists riding on the sidewalk, you think it is OK and pedestrians should watch out for themselves, I disagree with that, I think pedestrians should be able to walk in safety, we will just agree to disagree on this, one last thing. If you had children who walk along sidewalks going to school, would you really be happy for them being put in danger by these retards, how easy is it for kids to watch out for themselves when they are more interested in their ice creams?

We are in agreement about motorcyclists on the sidewalks. I also think they should not be there.

Given that the current environment allows their presence, then we have to look out for ourselves.

As far as the children using the walks goes, that is a difficult one. Kids do not pay attention to anything except what is going on in their world at the moment. I would not be happy about it, and would try to minimize the risk. How? Perhaps by walking the young one to school, and meeting them after school to walk them home, if that was possible.

Pleased to read your first paragraph, and the rest of your post is spot on.