Mounting evidence links bombing to Turks, Uighurs

[Bluespunk]

Why should the USA take on someone else's problem?

Uighurs have problems in China because they won't integrate into mainstream Chinese society. The west has exactly the same problem that so many muslim migrants refuse to assimilate into mainstream western culture. They enter the host country and expect the locals to change, not the immigrants. China is facing the same problem as the west and handling it better.

No the Uighurs problem is that the Chinese state is attempting to destroy their culture and way of life. One they have followed for centuries.

In effect they are resisting the very thing you accuse Muslims of.

[jamesbrock]

I'm just not convinced those violent ones in the ongoing refugee/jihadist stream were diverted to the bombing in Thailand rather than just passing through. I think it is equally possible the bombing crew came from outside on a specific mission, and not as part of the refugee stream. I say this, because they seemed to be efficient and effective, which suggests a higher level of capability than the guys intent on "joining the fight". (But your links are interesting, and I may drift toward, "they are already here")

I still think the Uighur deportation is the most likely "trigger" for the bombing. No justification whatsoever, but predictable given the horrifying "popularity" of bombing these days.

Yes, it'll be interesting to see how this all pans out. I hope with all my heart that this was a one-off.

Also, does anyone know what happened to the Uighurs who were returned to China? Someone must know.

I'd say their fate will be much similar to the 20 Uighur refugees forcibly returned by Cambodia in 2009 - they will never be seen again.

The bleeding hearts of this world really should be the ones that have to deal with the repercussions of all their emotional blackmail. The world needs the rule of law not the rule of soft touches

What 'rule of law' do you speak of? International law, or some 'other' set of laws?

The Uighurs violated no laws in leaving their country, nor did they violate any laws by entering Thailand. Prayuth did violate international law by forcibly returning them to China.

So war's this alternative 'rule of law' you speak of?

[jamesbrock]

They have revealed their terrorist inclination by bombing, really stupid of them lol... Who wants to protect these violent fanatics ?

I wouldn't put it quite that way and I realize many of them feel totally desperate about the situation in China ... but I just don't even begin to get how the bombing in Bangkok (and more bombing appears to have been planned) really furthers their cause. Their cause per se might be good but it seems to me going the international terrorism path (already numerous events IN China) is not going to win friends and influence people. Now their ethnic group is going to be profiled everywhere in the world.

Maybe the attack had nothing to do with furthering their cause and everything to do with carrying out a revenge attack.

(read the article in the link below which suggest allegations were made that a number of Uyghurs were killed resisting deportation).

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/thailand-uyghur-07092015140950.html

I don't accept your terms. It was definitely terrorism. "Revenge" would be picking a target that actually has something to do with the situation. Innocent tourists (and Thais) are not legit targets. Of course if they had attacked a "legit" target they would have likely been killed on the spot ... so they took the cowardly tactic of blowing up total innocents. There is no justification for this of any kind. End of story.

I agree completely with richard_smith237 - and thought that from the second I first heard about the bombing.

You keep saying you can't understand how the bombing could further their cause, and whenever someone suggests that it didn't need to be anything more than retribution for the forced deportation of the 109 Uighurs to China, you refuse to accept that as there is no justification for this.

You're right, to any sane, rational thinking human, there is no justification whatsoever - but these militants/terrorists/people smugglers are by their very nature irrational. To you or I, bombing a shrine full of innocent tourists is completely irrational—and unjustified—but to a jihadist group bombing a religious shrine in the capital of the country that disrupted your operations by sending your people back to your oppressors, a shrine that is usually filled with people of your oppressors, people that the country that disrupted your operations are desperately trying to woo for their tourist dollar might make perfect sense.

The anger in Turkey at this forced repatriation, the attacking of the Thai consulate and Chinese embassy in Istanbul, the request for increased security at the Chinese embassy in Bangkok, and the intelligence from the Special Branch that suggested there could be an attack on Chinese tourists after August 11, the bombing, and now two people in custody who are almost certainly Uighurs...

[happy Joe]

I think you'll find that's what all terrorist organisations do.

Quite a few countries as well.

Of all faiths.

Or all faiths...

Dear friend it's time to take off the bandage that blinds you. Certainly it is unhealthy to generalize and it is true that most Muslims are perfectly cordial.

Note though that the last thirty years almost all filthy attacks come from this confession.

This does not mean that all Muslims are bad ...

But when it's bad, when it broke out to kill innocents when some slice the gorge with a cutter that comes most probably from Muslims.

Last thirty years? Including the Bosnian genocide by the Serbs in that? The war crimes and atrocities committed in the Sri Lankan conflict? The Burmese states attempts to exterminate the Rohingya? The Oklahoma bombing? The completely unwarranted invasion of Iraq to finish off daddy's work and all that followed it? The complete <deleted> up of western intervention in Libya? (No tears shed by me for the death of either leader there but the fact is western intervention did not lead anywhere good).

Yes there are scum that are Muslims but they exist in all faiths.

The shares that are worth a universal rejection Muslims were all committed in the name of Allah. I could list them but it would take pages and pages ...

You answer to assert a kind of balance acts of war involving the West on predominantly Muslim lands.

These are indeed deplorable fact but they were not perpetuated in the name of God.

The only fact that goes in your sense would be the Bush statement on " forces of evil." But it was widely disputed and ridiculed in his own camp to this archaic formulation.

[DeepInTheForest]

[thread edited for the sake of brevity]

Last thirty years? Including the Bosnian genocide by the Serbs in that? The war crimes and atrocities committed in the Sri Lankan conflict? The Burmese states attempts to exterminate the Rohingya? The Oklahoma bombing? The completely unwarranted invasion of Iraq to finish off daddy's work and all that followed it? The complete <deleted> up of western intervention in Libya? (No tears shed by me for the death of either leader there but the fact is western intervention did not lead anywhere good).

Yes there are scum that are Muslims but they exist in all faiths.

The shares that are worth a universal rejection Muslims were all committed in the name of Allah. I could list them but it would take pages and pages ...

You answer to assert a kind of balance acts of war involving the West on predominantly Muslim lands.

These are indeed deplorable fact but they were not perpetuated in the name of God.

The only fact that goes in your sense would be the Bush statement on " forces of evil." But it was widely disputed and ridiculed in his own camp to this archaic formulation.

You seem to be saying that while Muslims cite religion as a justification for violence, the West does not massacre Muslims for religious reasons, and thus is somehow a more "rational" actor. Its violence is based on secular justifications, apparently.

I dunno. Hard to swallow.

That is a curious argument, since the net result over the last few decades has been that vastly greater numbers of Muslims (compared to Westerners) have been slain, had their economies and countries invaded and destroyed, their lands taken, their resources confiscated, their health infrastructure smashed, etc. Let's face it, the last 20 years have been one long catastrophe for much of the Muslim world. Given that Islam, in the pages of this forum, is viewed as a violent religion, one would expect the reverse-- that it would be the Muslim countries causing mischief via invasions. And if one puts oneself in a Muslim's shoes, as it were, it would be difficult to believe that the West's actions were not inspired by religion, since it is the Islamic countries that have taken a disproportionate share of the last couple decades of military bombings, etc. A crapload of violence has been perpetrated by the two richest Anglophone countries-- most often for completely spurious reasons.

Part of what we constantly are conveniently overlooking in the West is that our system demands a continuous supply of people who are exploited and demonized for reasons of capital accumulation. It could be people of color in the US (who were targeted by the financial industry prior to the 2008 collapse), or Arabs in the Parisian banlieues, or Turkish immigrants in Germany, or Gazans in the Strip (the destruction of Gaza's industries has been very convenient for Israeli businesses). Of course there are the Kissingerian examples of Vietnam and Chile and Indonesia and East Timor. It doesn't only happen in the West. It could be Burmese workers in Thailand, or Koreans in Japan. In this case, it has been the Uighurs in Xinjiang. Violence is wreaked-- not necessarily physical violence, but economic, social, and cultural violence-- on those least able to defend themselves. We blame it on "hatred" but often the base reason is the needs of capital. (And this is not to minimize the actual physical violence done. How would any of us react if another country sent drones to target "insurgents" that more often than not were civilians engaged in routine activities?)

Eventually the situation becomes inflamed beyond the explosion point. The hotheads and radical flamethrowers come to the fore, and, unleashed, commit heinous and unspeakable acts. Radical movements flourish. Violence is let loose, and begets more violence. This allows a blanket condemnation of all those in the oppressed group.

This much seems obvious to me.... As contemptible as the acts performed by Isis and the terrorists in Bangkok and other venues all over the world are, in some sense it would be irrational to expect that long and continued oppression would not incur some kind of pushback. There has not been much presented in this forum on the sometimes strange history of the Uighurs and their treatment at the hands of the Chinese empire. If I get time, I will add a post on this.

Edited September 4, 2015 by DeepInTheForest

[i claudius]

Forget the few Muslim leaders that deplore violence for the moment , but lets look more at Muslims in general ,someone draws a picture of Mohamed ,there is outrage around the Muslim world ,demonstrationes marches etc etc , well when Muslims start marching and demonstrating around the world against the terrorists in their midst and waving banners decrying the evil in their religion ,then i will think that maybe i will think they do care ,but untill that happens (and i will not be holding my breath ) i will view them as complacent with what their religion is doing around the globe .

[Bluespunk]

I think you'll find that's what all terrorist organisations do.

Quite a few countries as well.

Of all faiths.

Or all faiths...

Dear friend it's time to take off the bandage that blinds you. Certainly it is unhealthy to generalize and it is true that most Muslims are perfectly cordial.

Note though that the last thirty years almost all filthy attacks come from this confession.

This does not mean that all Muslims are bad ...

But when it's bad, when it broke out to kill innocents when some slice the gorge with a cutter that comes most probably from Muslims.

Last thirty years? Including the Bosnian genocide by the Serbs in that? The war crimes and atrocities committed in the Sri Lankan conflict? The Burmese states attempts to exterminate the Rohingya? The Oklahoma bombing? The completely unwarranted invasion of Iraq to finish off daddy's work and all that followed it? The complete <deleted> up of western intervention in Libya? (No tears shed by me for the death of either leader there but the fact is western intervention did not lead anywhere good).

Yes there are scum that are Muslims but they exist in all faiths.

The shares that are worth a universal rejection Muslims were all committed in the name of Allah. I could list them but it would take pages and pages ...

You answer to assert a kind of balance acts of war involving the West on predominantly Muslim lands.

These are indeed deplorable fact but they were not perpetuated in the name of God.

The only fact that goes in your sense would be the Bush statement on " forces of evil." But it was widely disputed and ridiculed in his own camp to this archaic formulation.

Evil is in the mind of the bigot. Faith is not the issue bit intolerance. All faiths have the intolerant and prejudiced as this forum often reflects.

[ddavidovsky]

People have the right to flee terror.

They should not be the ones criticised for doing so, rather it should be the state government that is persecuting them.

And how do you define terror? The removal of certain rights? You've just given carte blanche for economic migration to everyone who claims they are being oppressed. That's neither moral nor practical. There are oppressed groups everywhere in the developing world (including Thailand). They just have to work at it. In many cases, it's simply a case of surrendering some pride. Injured pride is not 'terror' and certainly not justification for mass migration to someone else's country.

[brucec64]

This horrible tragedy could have been avoided if the junta government had honored their Human Rights treaties and repatriated the Uighurs to Turkey, Instead of bowing down to their new Chinese overlords.

Why ? - because everyone should do what terrorists demand then there will be no bombs like this ?.

Seems like they were linked to terrorism after all - so the Junta did the right thing.

JuntaJohn - not only can your beloved junta do no wrong, I guess they can also see into the future.

The decision to return the Uighurs was not related to any threats from the Uighurs. This is not a case of "we will not negotiate with terrorists". The only threats made were implied threats by China as to the economic consequences if Thailand did not comply with China's demands, rather than following the world recognized Human Rights standard of non-refoulment of refugees.

[Thai at Heart]

They have revealed their terrorist inclination by bombing, really stupid of them lol... Who wants to protect these violent fanatics ?

I wouldn't put it quite that way and I realize many of them feel totally desperate about the situation in China ... but I just don't even begin to get how the bombing in Bangkok (and more bombing appears to have been planned) really furthers their cause. Their cause per se might be good but it seems to me going the international terrorism path (already numerous events IN China) is not going to win friends and influence people. Now their ethnic group is going to be profiled everywhere in the world.

Maybe the attack had nothing to do with furthering their cause and everything to do with carrying out a revenge attack.

(read the article in the link below which suggest allegations were made that a number of Uyghurs were killed resisting deportation).

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/thailand-uyghur-07092015140950.html

I don't accept your terms. It was definitely terrorism. "Revenge" would be picking a target that actually has something to do with the situation. Innocent tourists (and Thais) are not legit targets. Of course if they had attacked a "legit" target they would have likely been killed on the spot ... so they took the cowardly tactic of blowing up total innocents. There is no justification for this of any kind. End of story.

I agree completely with richard_smith237 - and thought that from the second I first heard about the bombing.

You keep saying you can't understand how the bombing could further their cause, and whenever someone suggests that it didn't need to be anything more than retribution for the forced deportation of the 109 Uighurs to China, you refuse to accept that as there is no justification for this.

You're right, to any sane, rational thinking human, there is no justification whatsoever - but these militants/terrorists/people smugglers are by their very nature irrational. To you or I, bombing a shrine full of innocent tourists is completely irrational—and unjustified—but to a jihadist group bombing a religious shrine in the capital of the country that disrupted your operations by sending your people back to your oppressors, a shrine that is usually filled with people of your oppressors, people that the country that disrupted your operations are desperately trying to woo for their tourist dollar might make perfect sense.

The anger in Turkey at this forced repatriation, the attacking of the Thai consulate and Chinese embassy in Istanbul, the request for increased security at the Chinese embassy in Bangkok, and the intelligence from the Special Branch that suggested there could be an attack on Chinese tourists after August 11, the bombing, and now two people in custody who are almost certainly Uighurs...

I can't say I could ever think like someone who could plant a bomb like this, but if you have little to lose, and you want someone to pay attention, you make a very very very loud noise.

Until the bomb, the repatriation happened and everything was silent. Well now the world knows what the Uighurs think of repatriation, from their point of view.

[Jingthing]

So what do you think the result will be of this terrorism? The result will be a greater global tolerance of trying to keep Uighurs out of Thailand in the first place and also sending them back if they do get in. Duh. Sending them back irrelevant if they can't get in in the first place.

Thailand has enough problems without IMPORTING them.

The Uighur terrorists, whether their actions doing this terrorism are representative or not of the tactical preferences of their people (it's hard to tell, isn't it?) have basically scapegoated themselves. Brilliant idiocy.

The voices here of tolerance and understanding for this horror show are truly nauseating.

Next ...

Edited September 4, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

The blast was arranged by chinese government.

...

No it wasn't and as a new member almost all of your posts are basically the SAME post. Then, you accuse others of being political functionaries. Hilarious.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Jingthing

[jamesbrock]

Until the bomb, the repatriation happened and everything was silent. Well now the world knows what the Uighurs think of repatriation, from their point of view.

Thailand repatriated the Uighurs on July 9.

This drew immediate and vehement international criticism - the United States condemned Thailand’s move as "incompatible with an international convention against torture," and the U.N.H.C.R called it a “flagrant violation of international law.”

Later, still on July 9, both the Thai Embassy in Ankara and the consulate in Istanbul had to be temporarily shut after a group of about 200 men attacked the Thai consulate in Istanbul with rocks and wooden planks.. Windows at the consulate were smashed, furnishings damaged and the sign outside pulled down and Thai flags burnt. <Video>

The same day protests outside the Chinese embassy saw Chinese flags burnt and police called in to fire pepper spray at demonstrators.

Since then, Chinese (and Korean, mistaken for Chinese) citizens in Turkey have been, and are still being, harassed and attacked.

Both Thailand and China have issued a travel warning to its citizens travelling to Turkey amidst the growing anger at the repatriation.

Two weeks later the RTP deployed more officers to the Chinese embassy in Bangkok after it made a request for enhanced security.

Around the same time, intelligence from the Special Branch suggested there could be an attack on Chinese tourists after August 11.

Less that a week after August 11, the bombing occurred.

I'd hardly say "everything was silent" between the repatriation and the bombing.

[Thai at Heart]

Until the bomb, the repatriation happened and everything was silent. Well now the world knows what the Uighurs think of repatriation, from their point of view.

Thailand repatriated the Uighurs on July 9.

This drew immediate and vehement international criticism - the United States condemned Thailand’s move as "incompatible with an international convention against torture," and the U.N.H.C.R called it a “flagrant violation of international law.”

Later, still on July 9, both the Thai Embassy in Ankara and the consulate in Istanbul had to be temporarily shut after a group of about 200 men attacked the Thai consulate in Istanbul with rocks and wooden planks.. Windows at the consulate were smashed, furnishings damaged and the sign outside pulled down and Thai flags burnt. <Video>

The same day protests outside the Chinese embassy saw Chinese flags burnt and police called in to fire pepper spray at demonstrators.

Since then, Chinese (and Korean, mistaken for Chinese) citizens in Turkey have been, and are still being, harassed and attacked.

Both Thailand and China have issued a travel warning to its citizens travelling to Turkey amidst the growing anger at the repatriation.

Two weeks later the RTP deployed more officers to the Chinese embassy in Bangkok after it made a request for enhanced security.

Around the same time, intelligence from the Special Branch suggested there could be an attack on Chinese tourists after August 11.

Less that a week after August 11, the bombing occurred.

I'd hardly say "everything was silent" between the repatriation and the bombing.

The protest in Turkey happened, and then it was quiet. Everyone thought the issue had been put to bed. I presume the Thai media was told not to labour the point and they focused in such pressing issues as removing thaksin police rank and the such.

[simple1]

So what do you think the result will be of this terrorism? The result will be a greater global tolerance of trying to keep Uighurs out of Thailand in the first place and also sending them back if they do get in. Duh. Sending them back irrelevant if they can't get in in the first place.

Thailand has enough problems without IMPORTING them.

The Uighur terrorists, whether their actions doing this terrorism are representative or not of the tactical preferences of their people (it's hard to tell, isn't it?) have basically scapegoated themselves. Brilliant idiocy.

The voices here of tolerance and understanding for this horror show are truly nauseating.

Next ...

Pure spin. Nobody is promoting tolerance for terrorism, only discussing scenarios that led to the bombing.

[Wilsonandson]

Beijing has pressed Thailand to return the suspected Uighurs, who have no identification documents but claim Turkish descent and ask to go to Turkey, say people involved in those discussions. Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu in November said publicly that Turkey informed Thailand it wished to take them in.

China’s foreign ministry, responding to a question about Mr. Cavusoglu’s statement, said: “We urge Turkey to immediately stop interfering in the handling of the relevant case” and “not to send mistaken signals to the outside world that connive in, and even support, illegal immigration activities.”

Sek Wannamethee a Thai-foreign-ministry spokesman, said his government knew the Chinese and Turkish positions but needed time to identify the detainees—men, women and children.

Interesting article in the Wall Street Journal. http://www.wsj.com/articles/as-muslim-uighurs-flee-china-sees-jihad-risk-1422666280

[jamesbrock]

Until the bomb, the repatriation happened and everything was silent. Well now the world knows what the Uighurs think of repatriation, from their point of view.

Thailand repatriated the Uighurs on July 9.

This drew immediate and vehement international criticism - the United States condemned Thailand’s move as "incompatible with an international convention against torture," and the U.N.H.C.R called it a “flagrant violation of international law.”

Later, still on July 9, both the Thai Embassy in Ankara and the consulate in Istanbul had to be temporarily shut after a group of about 200 men attacked the Thai consulate in Istanbul with rocks and wooden planks.. Windows at the consulate were smashed, furnishings damaged and the sign outside pulled down and Thai flags burnt. <Video>

The same day protests outside the Chinese embassy saw Chinese flags burnt and police called in to fire pepper spray at demonstrators.

Since then, Chinese (and Korean, mistaken for Chinese) citizens in Turkey have been, and are still being, harassed and attacked.

Both Thailand and China have issued a travel warning to its citizens travelling to Turkey amidst the growing anger at the repatriation.

Two weeks later the RTP deployed more officers to the Chinese embassy in Bangkok after it made a request for enhanced security.

Around the same time, intelligence from the Special Branch suggested there could be an attack on Chinese tourists after August 11.

Less that a week after August 11, the bombing occurred.

I'd hardly say "everything was silent" between the repatriation and the bombing.

The protest in Turkey happened, and then it was quiet. Everyone thought the issue had been put to bed. I presume the Thai media was told not to labour the point and they focused in such pressing issues as removing thaksin police rank and the such.

You might access different news sources than I, because the growing anti-China sentiment was a predominate theme in the media I was reading in the five weeks between the repatriation and the bombing - not sparked off by the repatriation, but that certainly took it to new heights.

It's not too hard to imagine the repatriation getting the attention of the militants, and because Thailand is such a soft target (i.e. its borders are decidedly porous, and its security services feeble at best) they decided to hit China's interests in Thailand - in a two-for-one type deal.

Caveat: I'm NOT promoting tolerance for terrorism, rationalising, condoning, or otherwise making excuses for this abhorrent terrorist attack, only discussing possible scenarios that led to the bombing.

[Bluespunk]

People have the right to flee terror.

They should not be the ones criticised for doing so, rather it should be the state government that is persecuting them.

And how do you define terror? The removal of certain rights? You've just given carte blanche for economic migration to everyone who claims they are being oppressed. That's neither moral nor practical. There are oppressed groups everywhere in the developing world (including Thailand). They just have to work at it. In many cases, it's simply a case of surrendering some pride. Injured pride is not 'terror' and certainly not justification for mass migration to someone else's country.

How do I define terror?

The actions of the Chinese to enforce their eradication of the traditions, cultural norms and religious practices in the Uighur homeland certainly qualifies for me.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed as well as the replies.

[tukkytuktuk]

Beijing has pressed Thailand to return the suspected Uighurs, who have no identification documents but claim Turkish descent and ask to go to Turkey, say people involved in those discussions. Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu in November said publicly that Turkey informed Thailand it wished to take them in.

Chinas foreign ministry, responding to a question about Mr. Cavusoglus statement, said: We urge Turkey to immediately stop interfering in the handling of the relevant case and not to send mistaken signals to the outside world that connive in, and even support, illegal immigration activities.

Sek Wannamethee a Thai-foreign-ministry spokesman, said his government knew the Chinese and Turkish positions but needed time to identify the detaineesmen, women and children.

Interesting article in the Wall Street Journal. http://www.wsj.com/articles/as-muslim-uighurs-flee-china-sees-jihad-risk-1422666280

Found this report that is also quite damning evidence for Uyghur terror attack on the shrine. http://www.ucanews.com/news/terrorism-charges-for-uighurs-disputed/74166